I'm a recent grad and I have family, friends, and connections in the cities I've mentioned. I will be looking for entry level work that requires little or no experience e.g. "junior architect" or "intern architect".
I have debt to pay so salary and cost of living is a factor but not the only factor. NYC and San Fran have higher rents than LA but if there are better opportunities and more interesting work in NY, I would go there despite the high rents.
I'll leave "interesting" as simply processed based design that has some degree of rigor to not go off of a tangent... as opposed to a more business like approach or renovation work.
please enlighten me on the salaries each city offers at entry level positions and what each city could offer or take away from a career in architecture. thank you.
Miles I must say that your snarky comment is one of the most original and creative I've heard.
I'm guessing your parents take care of all the bills? And you MUST be that guy who tells yours peers that if they want to be compensated the shouldn't be architects? Because for you its not about the money... all about the heart, the soul, right? perhaps hollywood can take this concept and make the next big chick flick
You're a bad joke and an annoying cliche. You have nothing to contribute. Please just shut your mouth.
Base it on the type of work you want to do. Wherever you go, you won't make much money for the first couple years, and even if you tire of the hours in NY it is not bad experience to carry with you at your next stop on your career. Pretty much everyone I graduated with started in NY, though only a fraction ended up staying there once they started facing the issues that come with families.
So you you are thinking about SF and have debts to pay? let me clue you in - Financial responsibility should be your #1 priority to get those debts paid - that's not going to happen in the Bay Area unless you are a programmer who works for Twitter, Google...You have to be very successful here to survive and then thrive - the Bay Are is not for entry level people anymore. I got my first arch. job here in 2007 because I was one of the few at the time who could put a building together in Revit. - IOW, you need to have a skill no one else has.
your job is to get entry level work and eliminate your debt - the best way to do that is to find work in markets where there isn't a vast income gap - try Salt Lake City - the cost of living is less and you can learn about living a pragmatic life - you will pay off your debts and live a balanced sensible life.
Your next priority is to save your money, - that's not easy for an entry level architect in the Bay Area. - Living a pragmatic life will have big dividends later - trust me on this one
@Xenakis thank you for clueing me in and I'm sure you are very special because you started off in SF; the rest of us obviously cannot because we are not special like you... however i do not believe I sent you my resume. many of my classmates accepted offers at firms in san francisco with college debt and they don't have a second job at IBM.
your little lecture and life lesson is appreciated... but i prefer to be with friends and family than in Salt Lake City. i asked this question to gather information and do more research to make my own decision, not ask a stranger to decide for me.
@Janosh, thank you for your insight. what was the reason that most of your classmates chose NY?
Hi Mark, I think it was mostly a lack of local prospects and that the school had a well established pipeline with practitioners there. I was there for about a year - it's an amazing environment to work in, and though I've tired of it since of its irrelevance and insularity the academic environment is great. Be however warned: the hours in NY are punishing, competition at the entry level is brutal. No one goes there for quality of life, so there is a steady stream of people knocking on the doors of the best practices that are willing to work more for less. And it's a very hard place to be broke and have fun - everything seems to cost shit tons of money, so you'll spend a lot of time drinking beer on remote rooftops and hanging out in parks.
I am no one special - hardly - what I am telling is the result of insights I gained from 15 months of unemployment during the recession - to have to work my way back over 6 years. Believe me you don't ever want to be in the shoes I walked in for 6 years. If I am special, then why did it take so long to just break even. The only reason I got a job i SF, then was because a firm there wanted someone with Revit exp. Now we get flooded with resumes from people who are better than I will ever be.
I am just providing a warning that aspirations can come with a price that most can't sustain the payment schedule and thus default on their dreams. A road of pragmatism leads to a sustainable career.
The only reason I got the job I got in 2007 at SOM was that I had Revit exp. it sure wasn't for my architectural skills and they would have rather hired a GSD or a Ball State grad. - when my purpose was done and the recession hit - I was laid off and no one would hire me for 15 months. I had to work unpaid internships for 9 months before I ever got a paying job again.
You are the special one who will most likely never encounter a brutal totally unfair recession - My advice to you is you better be the best or you will be the deadest as I found out.
Do you know why the situation is like that in NY? If the pay is so low and the cost of living is so high, what is it that new professionals seek in NY that different parts of the country cannot provide? NY is great but cities like Chicago, SF, LA aren't bad either..
I'm actually more familiar with NY having interned there, but I'm just thinking if cities like LA and Chicago which have much lower rents and can command a similar salary (I've only heard.. not confirmed in any way), what is it that drives all these new grads to NY to live paycheck to paycheck and in the end not enjoying their profession anymore?
Do you know if firms elsewhere offer similar compensation as NY?
"what is it that drives all these new grads to NY to live paycheck to paycheck and in the end not enjoying their profession anymore?"
A lot of people think they can "make it"
A lot of soldiers going to war think they win't get blown up either.
It's a matter of probability - find out what separates the winner from the everyone else and do do what it takes - then you can make it in NYC - pretend you are Bjarke Ingels or whomever you want to be like and do everything that person did and does - find out about their habits and model them until they become or habits - and then you too will have a statistically better shot.
I've been working in SF since 2007. there has been a really bad time to find a job here from 2008-2010 ish, but it was tough to find a job elsewhere too during that time. As of now, job market in SF seems to be booming.. There are multiple jobs posted daily on AIA SF chapter and craigslist. I feel that SF will give you a good chance to find a job now. As for debt and living expenses, I would consider living in east bay and commute into the city. It's too expensive to live in the city with entry level salary.
Based on this survey, I think SF has similar range ($18-23/hr) for entry level jobs. However, it also has to do with which project types you want to work on. SF firms seem to do lot of work space, TI for tech companies nowadays.. Just look at some job ads and see if you would be interested in working there.
If Mark Tower is your real name you probably shouldn't act like an A$$ on an architectural forum before starting a job hunt. Just some friendly advise. Your attitude would indicate you should move to new york and be someones slave for a few years to knock the chip off your shoulder before joining the real world,
Wow what a self entitled monster aka millenial. With this attitude you're not taking anyone's job.
But in case someone without an attitude sees this post in the future here's my two cents...
If you've finished school with +40K in debt you should move to a state/city with jobs, low taxes(or no income tax) and an overall low cost of living. Pay off your debts, save money, pass your exams and if you still want to move to a "trendy" city then do it when you hit 30 and you're in that sweet spot of 5-7 years experience. You'll come in with a higher salary based on the fact that you didn't spend your first 5 years as an unpaid/poorly paid intern.
Keep watching Girls and repeats of The Hills, living the dream. FYI, Miles KNOWS NYC and Xenakis WORKS IN SAN FRANCISCO. Don't shit on people who know their shit, douche.
OP: this is my life situation, i want your advice. but in return i will tell you that your the devil and any advice you give me is wrong and i am right.
I will prove to you, archimillenials, that i will make it big like a Michael Bay movie with the help of my friend John from NYC.
but in the end "I'm a recent grad and I have family, friends, and connections in the cities I've mentioned. I will be looking for entry level work that requires little or no experience e.g. "junior architect" or "intern architect"."
might as well ask for a job captain title w/ little or no experience. because no reason to dream small when you can dream big right?
Working in NYC vs LA vs San Fran
I'm a recent grad and I have family, friends, and connections in the cities I've mentioned. I will be looking for entry level work that requires little or no experience e.g. "junior architect" or "intern architect".
I have debt to pay so salary and cost of living is a factor but not the only factor. NYC and San Fran have higher rents than LA but if there are better opportunities and more interesting work in NY, I would go there despite the high rents.
I'll leave "interesting" as simply processed based design that has some degree of rigor to not go off of a tangent... as opposed to a more business like approach or renovation work.
please enlighten me on the salaries each city offers at entry level positions and what each city could offer or take away from a career in architecture. thank you.
You're interested in architecture AND money? LOL
Miles I must say that your snarky comment is one of the most original and creative I've heard.
I'm guessing your parents take care of all the bills? And you MUST be that guy who tells yours peers that if they want to be compensated the shouldn't be architects? Because for you its not about the money... all about the heart, the soul, right? perhaps hollywood can take this concept and make the next big chick flick
You're a bad joke and an annoying cliche. You have nothing to contribute. Please just shut your mouth.
Base it on the type of work you want to do. Wherever you go, you won't make much money for the first couple years, and even if you tire of the hours in NY it is not bad experience to carry with you at your next stop on your career. Pretty much everyone I graduated with started in NY, though only a fraction ended up staying there once they started facing the issues that come with families.
So you you are thinking about SF and have debts to pay? let me clue you in - Financial responsibility should be your #1 priority to get those debts paid - that's not going to happen in the Bay Area unless you are a programmer who works for Twitter, Google...You have to be very successful here to survive and then thrive - the Bay Are is not for entry level people anymore. I got my first arch. job here in 2007 because I was one of the few at the time who could put a building together in Revit. - IOW, you need to have a skill no one else has.
your job is to get entry level work and eliminate your debt - the best way to do that is to find work in markets where there isn't a vast income gap - try Salt Lake City - the cost of living is less and you can learn about living a pragmatic life - you will pay off your debts and live a balanced sensible life.
Your next priority is to save your money, - that's not easy for an entry level architect in the Bay Area. - Living a pragmatic life will have big dividends later - trust me on this one
@Xenakis thank you for clueing me in and I'm sure you are very special because you started off in SF; the rest of us obviously cannot because we are not special like you... however i do not believe I sent you my resume. many of my classmates accepted offers at firms in san francisco with college debt and they don't have a second job at IBM.
your little lecture and life lesson is appreciated... but i prefer to be with friends and family than in Salt Lake City. i asked this question to gather information and do more research to make my own decision, not ask a stranger to decide for me.
@Janosh, thank you for your insight. what was the reason that most of your classmates chose NY?
Hi Mark, I think it was mostly a lack of local prospects and that the school had a well established pipeline with practitioners there. I was there for about a year - it's an amazing environment to work in, and though I've tired of it since of its irrelevance and insularity the academic environment is great. Be however warned: the hours in NY are punishing, competition at the entry level is brutal. No one goes there for quality of life, so there is a steady stream of people knocking on the doors of the best practices that are willing to work more for less. And it's a very hard place to be broke and have fun - everything seems to cost shit tons of money, so you'll spend a lot of time drinking beer on remote rooftops and hanging out in parks.
mark lower
I am no one special - hardly - what I am telling is the result of insights I gained from 15 months of unemployment during the recession - to have to work my way back over 6 years. Believe me you don't ever want to be in the shoes I walked in for 6 years. If I am special, then why did it take so long to just break even. The only reason I got a job i SF, then was because a firm there wanted someone with Revit exp. Now we get flooded with resumes from people who are better than I will ever be.
I am just providing a warning that aspirations can come with a price that most can't sustain the payment schedule and thus default on their dreams. A road of pragmatism leads to a sustainable career.
The only reason I got the job I got in 2007 at SOM was that I had Revit exp. it sure wasn't for my architectural skills and they would have rather hired a GSD or a Ball State grad. - when my purpose was done and the recession hit - I was laid off and no one would hire me for 15 months. I had to work unpaid internships for 9 months before I ever got a paying job again.
You are the special one who will most likely never encounter a brutal totally unfair recession - My advice to you is you better be the best or you will be the deadest as I found out.
Do you know why the situation is like that in NY? If the pay is so low and the cost of living is so high, what is it that new professionals seek in NY that different parts of the country cannot provide? NY is great but cities like Chicago, SF, LA aren't bad either..
I'm actually more familiar with NY having interned there, but I'm just thinking if cities like LA and Chicago which have much lower rents and can command a similar salary (I've only heard.. not confirmed in any way), what is it that drives all these new grads to NY to live paycheck to paycheck and in the end not enjoying their profession anymore?
Do you know if firms elsewhere offer similar compensation as NY?
"what is it that drives all these new grads to NY to live paycheck to paycheck and in the end not enjoying their profession anymore?"
A lot of people think they can "make it"
A lot of soldiers going to war think they win't get blown up either.
It's a matter of probability - find out what separates the winner from the everyone else and do do what it takes - then you can make it in NYC - pretend you are Bjarke Ingels or whomever you want to be like and do everything that person did and does - find out about their habits and model them until they become or habits - and then you too will have a statistically better shot.
Hi Mark,
I've been working in SF since 2007. there has been a really bad time to find a job here from 2008-2010 ish, but it was tough to find a job elsewhere too during that time. As of now, job market in SF seems to be booming.. There are multiple jobs posted daily on AIA SF chapter and craigslist. I feel that SF will give you a good chance to find a job now. As for debt and living expenses, I would consider living in east bay and commute into the city. It's too expensive to live in the city with entry level salary.
I just checked salary survey in NY:
http://salaries.archinect.com/poll/results/state/new-york
Based on this survey, I think SF has similar range ($18-23/hr) for entry level jobs. However, it also has to do with which project types you want to work on. SF firms seem to do lot of work space, TI for tech companies nowadays.. Just look at some job ads and see if you would be interested in working there.
what about Miami ?
why nobody mention it ? It's not that good ?
mark, you seem like a fucking douchebag more than anyone else here. Go to NYC and live in a gutter.
The OP's formula: (i) solicit advice, (ii) receive well-meaning advice, (iii) shit on people for not providing the advice that you wanted.
Enjoy debt slavery!
If Mark Tower is your real name you probably shouldn't act like an A$$ on an architectural forum before starting a job hunt. Just some friendly advise. Your attitude would indicate you should move to new york and be someones slave for a few years to knock the chip off your shoulder before joining the real world,
Wow what a self entitled monster aka millenial. With this attitude you're not taking anyone's job.
But in case someone without an attitude sees this post in the future here's my two cents...
If you've finished school with +40K in debt you should move to a state/city with jobs, low taxes(or no income tax) and an overall low cost of living. Pay off your debts, save money, pass your exams and if you still want to move to a "trendy" city then do it when you hit 30 and you're in that sweet spot of 5-7 years experience. You'll come in with a higher salary based on the fact that you didn't spend your first 5 years as an unpaid/poorly paid intern.
Keep watching Girls and repeats of The Hills, living the dream. FYI, Miles KNOWS NYC and Xenakis WORKS IN SAN FRANCISCO. Don't shit on people who know their shit, douche.
Mark,
I was going to say something about your attitude but other people have said it better.
Maybe I'm having a bad day but I hope you fail. The profession doesn't need more twats like you.
Yeah, Intelligentsia needs more baristas, but oh wait, thats hard work too.
Mark, go to NY. Go to hunts point and ask around for a guy named John. He'll hook you up with a job. Thank me later.
But seriously, LA is cool, the people are pretty chill. Pay to cost of living ratio is better than the other cities mentioned too.
OP: this is my life situation, i want your advice. but in return i will tell you that your the devil and any advice you give me is wrong and i am right.
I will prove to you, archimillenials, that i will make it big like a Michael Bay movie with the help of my friend John from NYC.
but in the end "I'm a recent grad and I have family, friends, and connections in the cities I've mentioned. I will be looking for entry level work that requires little or no experience e.g. "junior architect" or "intern architect"."
might as well ask for a job captain title w/ little or no experience. because no reason to dream small when you can dream big right?
good luck my friend.
LA is cool, people are pretty chill, the only problem is lack of public transport
Yeah, but you can make it work if you try. I ride the metro to work every day, takes me less time than driving.
Anybody hire this dickwad yet?
lack of public transport in LA ?
well, depends. I was working in studio city and use to ride on bus and it was perfect. No complains about it.
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