I'm somewhat confused and I would like to know your opinion, since I have nobody I could possibly ask... I'm an Architecture student from Spain. I finished my architecture studies last month (6-year studies, bachelor + masters' degree), but I lost all my illusions on the way, I'm really down. I've always been a good student, engineered-oriented, and became increasingly disappointed with such time consuming (and arbitrary) studies. My school is known as one of the toughest, and it has payed its toll. Right now, I want to focus my career on structural engineering, the only thing that has really captivated me throughout these hard years (and forget about drawing, design, autocad-monkey-pinching).
I've been offered a one year masters' degree (architectural structures) in Madrid and another one in london (structural engineering, out of civil engineering). I'm sure I'd love both of them, but they are expensive and I would like to make the right choice, since I feel I'm running out of time (lol I'm 25 but you know what I mean, it's about time you'd get your own money...). I would like to know if:
1.- has anybody made that turn, from Architecture to Structural Engineering?
2.- is it worth/necessary to take a masters' degree in structural engineering, or is it a waste of money/time? London, Madrid? :) (first sound great, not sure on quality; second is good quality; different approach civil engineering vs architectural)
3.- or perhaps can I actually focus in structures with my bsc+msc in architecture? In Spain, I can do that; not sure abroad.
Please, do take five minutes if you could enlighten me a little bit, I would really appreciate it if you could. Thanks a lot.
I don't know how technical your bachelors/masters program was from an engineering perspective, but if it is anything like programs in the US, you will not have the skills to move into engineering without the proper education. In the US, it is impossible to go into a masters program in engineering without an undergrad in the same field. If somebody with an architecture BS jumped into a structural masters program they would get buried.
That being said, it sounds like your program was more technical since you have been offered acceptance into a structural masters program, I would start there and see how you like it. Find out if people graduating from that program acquire the skills to work in the field or if it a watered-down program...
I have talked with some of our (my current firm's) consulting engineers and met with the principal of an international firm's local office to discuss this very issue.
1. Very few people make this transition.
2. It is not only worth it, but necessary in most states/ countries in order to get your P.E. license.
3. Not sure about Spain's rules regarding the issue. It seems like Calatrava has had an easy time making the transition, but he also had around 8 years of practice in engineering before getting his first big commission. No comment on his business ethics or project outcomes.
The information I have received has been:
Expect to be bored. You will solve isolated problems and work with tables and data entry a lot. The drafting you do will still be in Revit for the most part.
It is possible to work (in my state) for 6 years under an engineer and get to take your P.E. exam without an engineering degree, but is much easier if you have a degree.
Will be hard to get a firm to take a chance on you if you have no engineering or analysis experience.
Engineering firms have a hard time finding well-spoken engineers who are professional, presentable, and can successfully interact with clients and manage projects. Most just want to do calculations and research.
It is very attractive for me to get an engineering license, but would be just as much or more work than going the architecture route. Granted, it is a career with a future and higher pay, but it is a very demanding education and licensure path, at least in the USA.
@chigurh - yes, exactly, I expected everyone studying Architecture all around the world would take the same subjects more or less, but that's far from being true. Here we take about... hmmm 450 teaching hours of pure structure related subjects (static and dynamic analysis, soil mechanics, concrete structures, steel structures, tensile structures and so on) plus construction technologies, architectural engineering (water pipes, electrical installations) and urban planning. Of course, projects, drawing and design are the most time-consuming. My next step is to track down people having taken those Msc, I already have but for the London one, that's a clever piece of advice.
@archanonymous - you are right. Are you / Have you considered this too? Yes, what you point out about PE license is interesting. There are quite a few architects + structural engineers I've come across on the internet but you know, one always wonders if maybe it's a year wasted, as maybe you can't get to work primarily as an engineer. Calatrava is one of a kind lol as far as I know, he was a sculptor, then took architecture (bsc+msc), then moved to switzerland and got his Msc in Structural engineering (btw, this still exists, taught in german). No fool, of course, but we all know... I've been bullied for being interesed in the same studies route lol It is attractive because I think it bridges the gap between architects and engineers (even here, where architects should know better) and that makes you valuable, and I find it way more satisfying. Just, you know, one has to ponder before taking the plunge. Thank you for your comment.
It is my understand that engineering firms are desperate for decent people, I have personally talked to two that were willing to train me even though I wasn't an engineer, an architecture degree was close enough for them, I knew CAD, they were willing to teach me more on the job. I am in the US, by the way.
there is no there - Arup is a wonderful company to work for. If they had an office here, I would join up in an instant.
What region are you located in, there?
takachan - yes, I have considered it. I would really like to get on with a good engineer. I have looked at moving to NYC or LA and joining the Advanced Computational Modeling group at Thornton Tomasetti. Mostly just saving money right now. It is hard to leave this quality of life, natural beauty, and sunshine.
There are a few firms here I would work with, I am definitely looking at a switch in the next 1-2 years. Have been at my current position 2.5 years and making good money, so it is always hard to upset that.
I had a personal invite to interview for a job, not a job in the hand. Send them your resume. They have thousands of employees, if they like what they see I'm sure they can make room for another...
If you're doing this to make your workload easier, you'll be disappointed. However, if you're looking for more challenges, certainty and stability, you're making the correct decision.
I have thought about it myself. One alumni from my school took that route and is doing very well. Don't know if you've heard of Charles Walker but he studied architecture as an undergrad, went on to do a masters in structural engineering at Imperial College in London, went to work for ARUP and started the Advanced Geometry Unit with Cecil Balmond (another much sought after structural engineering figure by well known architects like Koolhaas, Gehry, Siza etc) there, is currently a chief structural engineer/consultant at Zaha Hadid, and also the Head of the Architecture department at Royal College of Art in London currently.
Your future will be much brighter than most architects if you can combine your architectural background with your structural education. ;)
I don't know how technical your bachelors/masters program was from an engineering perspective, but if it is anything like programs in the US, you will not have the skills to move into engineering without the proper education.
Totally depends. If he was in the US, I'd look at the Architectural / Engineering degrees. I know OSU has one and think Kansas does too. It is an accredited degree in both fields. At OSU, the only difference between the regular Architecture degree and the AE one was the 4th and 5th years. The AE went onto advanced structures courses and dropped the 5th year studio. So with a degree they might accept, you might get in and get the AE degree in two years.
Then you are eligible to take the first part of the structural exam, do the internship (easy to run side by side with the architectural NCARB with a larger firm having both disciplines) and take both the final structural and ARE and get two licenses. That opens up your possibilities for employment greatly.
Yes, that's it. It's not about getting an easier workload. It's more like I feel drawing is such time wasting stuff, meaning I don't find it particularly stimulating or challenging, just boring. I want challenges and I'm quite comfortable with numbers, physics, structures and engineering (unlike most of my mates, who chicken out :P). I didn't know about Charles Walker, but I've done my research for the last couple of days, as well as some guys with similar career paths. Really interesting, thanks for that. In the end I'm taking the Msc in Madrid, given that the London one is just as expensive as Imperial and I got not so good first-hand reviews. Would've loved to attend it abroad but it's way way too expensive, we'll see how the future develops. That's my aim, blending together both backgrounds, thanks for that ;)
@mightyaa
Yup, this is the last thing I'm planning to study for the time being, then get some work experience. It's important for me to do this move first though because I don't want to spend the next few years being an AUTOCAD-pinching monkey (or photoshop for that matter), I would love to apply for engineer-oriented architectural jobs, so this msc is a must, just a year. And I've heard really really really wonderful stuff about it from alumni and uni teachers. So I'm taking it, then taking the plunge. I really appreciate your views since the US job market is something I knew nothing about, but your comments have helped me better understand it. Thank you.
You are from Spain, I don't think that there things are much different from Italy. As an architect (licensed) you can design small stuctures without any problem. If you want to design large/complex structures you can't simply follow an one year's master. You have to get a 5 years master degree in Engineering or at least a 3 years Bachelor degree (but much less useful, since you would be not entitled to full structural design of any kind of constuctions). Maybe they will discount you some course you already passed at Architecture, but usually not many. My personal advice: Go on with architectural design career, if you are interested in Structural Engineering try to find a stage or a position in some engineering-oriented company, such as Arup and be the figure witch connects architects and structural engineers. In the future you can join an engineer and start a structural-oriented architectural/engineering practice
Thanks for your view, I follow your posts from time to time here because I generally like your point of view. I think architecture here is quite different from that in Italy. I'm an structural engineer de facto upon finishing my architecture studies. That's hard to explain when you're abroad without an MSc, but as a matter of fact, I don't need it at all here. I can now design anything from small structures to big ones by law (Ley de Ordenación de la Edificación de España - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Ordenaci%C3%B3n_de_la_Edificaci%C3%B3n_de_Espa%C3%B1a). Of course nobody risks to stamp their signature without deep knowledge on structural grounds, so you usually rely on another architect specialized in structures or an engineer. Here, job attributions come with the bachelor's degree, not with the masters' degree.
That's why I guess things are a bit different in Spain and Italy. Here we get three equivalent degrees in architecture: architect-designer, architect-urbanist, architect-structural engineer. I'm not sure about Italy.
regards
Jul 4, 14 5:40 am ·
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Architecture to Structural Engineering. Would appreciate your view!
Hi people,
I'm somewhat confused and I would like to know your opinion, since I have nobody I could possibly ask... I'm an Architecture student from Spain. I finished my architecture studies last month (6-year studies, bachelor + masters' degree), but I lost all my illusions on the way, I'm really down. I've always been a good student, engineered-oriented, and became increasingly disappointed with such time consuming (and arbitrary) studies. My school is known as one of the toughest, and it has payed its toll. Right now, I want to focus my career on structural engineering, the only thing that has really captivated me throughout these hard years (and forget about drawing, design, autocad-monkey-pinching).
I've been offered a one year masters' degree (architectural structures) in Madrid and another one in london (structural engineering, out of civil engineering). I'm sure I'd love both of them, but they are expensive and I would like to make the right choice, since I feel I'm running out of time (lol I'm 25 but you know what I mean, it's about time you'd get your own money...). I would like to know if:
1.- has anybody made that turn, from Architecture to Structural Engineering?
2.- is it worth/necessary to take a masters' degree in structural engineering, or is it a waste of money/time? London, Madrid? :) (first sound great, not sure on quality; second is good quality; different approach civil engineering vs architectural)
3.- or perhaps can I actually focus in structures with my bsc+msc in architecture? In Spain, I can do that; not sure abroad.
Please, do take five minutes if you could enlighten me a little bit, I would really appreciate it if you could. Thanks a lot.
I don't know how technical your bachelors/masters program was from an engineering perspective, but if it is anything like programs in the US, you will not have the skills to move into engineering without the proper education. In the US, it is impossible to go into a masters program in engineering without an undergrad in the same field. If somebody with an architecture BS jumped into a structural masters program they would get buried.
That being said, it sounds like your program was more technical since you have been offered acceptance into a structural masters program, I would start there and see how you like it. Find out if people graduating from that program acquire the skills to work in the field or if it a watered-down program...
I have been doing some similar investigation.
I have talked with some of our (my current firm's) consulting engineers and met with the principal of an international firm's local office to discuss this very issue.
1. Very few people make this transition.
2. It is not only worth it, but necessary in most states/ countries in order to get your P.E. license.
3. Not sure about Spain's rules regarding the issue. It seems like Calatrava has had an easy time making the transition, but he also had around 8 years of practice in engineering before getting his first big commission. No comment on his business ethics or project outcomes.
The information I have received has been:
Expect to be bored. You will solve isolated problems and work with tables and data entry a lot. The drafting you do will still be in Revit for the most part.
It is possible to work (in my state) for 6 years under an engineer and get to take your P.E. exam without an engineering degree, but is much easier if you have a degree.
Will be hard to get a firm to take a chance on you if you have no engineering or analysis experience.
Engineering firms have a hard time finding well-spoken engineers who are professional, presentable, and can successfully interact with clients and manage projects. Most just want to do calculations and research.
It is very attractive for me to get an engineering license, but would be just as much or more work than going the architecture route. Granted, it is a career with a future and higher pay, but it is a very demanding education and licensure path, at least in the USA.
Thank you for your comments!
@chigurh - yes, exactly, I expected everyone studying Architecture all around the world would take the same subjects more or less, but that's far from being true. Here we take about... hmmm 450 teaching hours of pure structure related subjects (static and dynamic analysis, soil mechanics, concrete structures, steel structures, tensile structures and so on) plus construction technologies, architectural engineering (water pipes, electrical installations) and urban planning. Of course, projects, drawing and design are the most time-consuming. My next step is to track down people having taken those Msc, I already have but for the London one, that's a clever piece of advice.
@archanonymous - you are right. Are you / Have you considered this too? Yes, what you point out about PE license is interesting. There are quite a few architects + structural engineers I've come across on the internet but you know, one always wonders if maybe it's a year wasted, as maybe you can't get to work primarily as an engineer. Calatrava is one of a kind lol as far as I know, he was a sculptor, then took architecture (bsc+msc), then moved to switzerland and got his Msc in Structural engineering (btw, this still exists, taught in german). No fool, of course, but we all know... I've been bullied for being interesed in the same studies route lol It is attractive because I think it bridges the gap between architects and engineers (even here, where architects should know better) and that makes you valuable, and I find it way more satisfying. Just, you know, one has to ponder before taking the plunge. Thank you for your comment.
It is my understand that engineering firms are desperate for decent people, I have personally talked to two that were willing to train me even though I wasn't an engineer, an architecture degree was close enough for them, I knew CAD, they were willing to teach me more on the job. I am in the US, by the way.
^ One of said companies was international, in several different countries. Their employees could work abroad and travel.
there is no there - Arup is a wonderful company to work for. If they had an office here, I would join up in an instant.
What region are you located in, there?
takachan - yes, I have considered it. I would really like to get on with a good engineer. I have looked at moving to NYC or LA and joining the Advanced Computational Modeling group at Thornton Tomasetti. Mostly just saving money right now. It is hard to leave this quality of life, natural beauty, and sunshine.
There are a few firms here I would work with, I am definitely looking at a switch in the next 1-2 years. Have been at my current position 2.5 years and making good money, so it is always hard to upset that.
It was Jacobs (who apparently does have an office in Madrid), not Arup. It wasn't for me, but yes a good job. Probably not an easy job.
there is no there - I would have had a hard time passing that offer up.
I had a personal invite to interview for a job, not a job in the hand. Send them your resume. They have thousands of employees, if they like what they see I'm sure they can make room for another...
If you're doing this to make your workload easier, you'll be disappointed. However, if you're looking for more challenges, certainty and stability, you're making the correct decision.
I have thought about it myself. One alumni from my school took that route and is doing very well. Don't know if you've heard of Charles Walker but he studied architecture as an undergrad, went on to do a masters in structural engineering at Imperial College in London, went to work for ARUP and started the Advanced Geometry Unit with Cecil Balmond (another much sought after structural engineering figure by well known architects like Koolhaas, Gehry, Siza etc) there, is currently a chief structural engineer/consultant at Zaha Hadid, and also the Head of the Architecture department at Royal College of Art in London currently.
Your future will be much brighter than most architects if you can combine your architectural background with your structural education. ;)
I don't know how technical your bachelors/masters program was from an engineering perspective, but if it is anything like programs in the US, you will not have the skills to move into engineering without the proper education.
Totally depends. If he was in the US, I'd look at the Architectural / Engineering degrees. I know OSU has one and think Kansas does too. It is an accredited degree in both fields. At OSU, the only difference between the regular Architecture degree and the AE one was the 4th and 5th years. The AE went onto advanced structures courses and dropped the 5th year studio. So with a degree they might accept, you might get in and get the AE degree in two years.
Then you are eligible to take the first part of the structural exam, do the internship (easy to run side by side with the architectural NCARB with a larger firm having both disciplines) and take both the final structural and ARE and get two licenses. That opens up your possibilities for employment greatly.
Oh, and the way I see it... A license and work experience trumps a masters any day.
@accesskb
Yes, that's it. It's not about getting an easier workload. It's more like I feel drawing is such time wasting stuff, meaning I don't find it particularly stimulating or challenging, just boring. I want challenges and I'm quite comfortable with numbers, physics, structures and engineering (unlike most of my mates, who chicken out :P). I didn't know about Charles Walker, but I've done my research for the last couple of days, as well as some guys with similar career paths. Really interesting, thanks for that. In the end I'm taking the Msc in Madrid, given that the London one is just as expensive as Imperial and I got not so good first-hand reviews. Would've loved to attend it abroad but it's way way too expensive, we'll see how the future develops. That's my aim, blending together both backgrounds, thanks for that ;)
@mightyaa
Yup, this is the last thing I'm planning to study for the time being, then get some work experience. It's important for me to do this move first though because I don't want to spend the next few years being an AUTOCAD-pinching monkey (or photoshop for that matter), I would love to apply for engineer-oriented architectural jobs, so this msc is a must, just a year. And I've heard really really really wonderful stuff about it from alumni and uni teachers. So I'm taking it, then taking the plunge. I really appreciate your views since the US job market is something I knew nothing about, but your comments have helped me better understand it. Thank you.
You are from Spain, I don't think that there things are much different from Italy.
As an architect (licensed) you can design small stuctures without any problem. If you want to design large/complex structures you can't simply follow an one year's master. You have to get a 5 years master degree in Engineering or at least a 3 years Bachelor degree (but much less useful, since you would be not entitled to full structural design of any kind of constuctions). Maybe they will discount you some course you already passed at Architecture, but usually not many.
My personal advice:
Go on with architectural design career, if you are interested in Structural Engineering try to find a stage or a position in some engineering-oriented company, such as Arup and be the figure witch connects architects and structural engineers. In the future you can join an engineer and start a structural-oriented architectural/engineering practice
Hi Riccardo,
Thanks for your view, I follow your posts from time to time here because I generally like your point of view. I think architecture here is quite different from that in Italy. I'm an structural engineer de facto upon finishing my architecture studies. That's hard to explain when you're abroad without an MSc, but as a matter of fact, I don't need it at all here. I can now design anything from small structures to big ones by law (Ley de Ordenación de la Edificación de España - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Ordenaci%C3%B3n_de_la_Edificaci%C3%B3n_de_Espa%C3%B1a). Of course nobody risks to stamp their signature without deep knowledge on structural grounds, so you usually rely on another architect specialized in structures or an engineer. Here, job attributions come with the bachelor's degree, not with the masters' degree.
That's why I guess things are a bit different in Spain and Italy. Here we get three equivalent degrees in architecture: architect-designer, architect-urbanist, architect-structural engineer. I'm not sure about Italy.
regards
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