i am not in the new career yet...just on my way. i am in med school now, and it is great. i like the creativity of architecture quite a bit more, but there is no way i would trade back now. i actually feel i am making progress and helping - something i felt very distanced from in architecture at the end.

some background B.A and M.Arch - approximately 12 years in the field, license, salary close to what you cited above when i left (which made my loan payments on 70k grad plus 20k other TOUGH). i am a bit older than 30, so don't fret too much.

i decided to go to medicine because it really is what i wanted to do with architecture - i will get to affect people on a daily basis, and actually make their lives better.

personally, it was not the money. i grew to hate the condescending, egotistical, overly-important, masturbatory attitude in the profession.

i do not think there is much hope in the related fields. try engineering! try scientific research! do something in which creative thinking is an asset but with real metrics backing it up!

good luck.

cmndctrl, thanks for sharing. That is quite a commitment you are making and I hope things work out for you. May I ask what field you are specializing in? How many years are you committing to to school? I imagine it would take another decade of schooling.

As for engineering, does anyone know which field most architects go into, or which ones seems most secure?

(Never thought I would be here asking about career changes since I Knew since early childhood that I wanted to be an architect but things happen and I don't want to end up like this a decade from now trying to justify to myself why I never jumped shipped).

I am in private education now and work in a small private clinic where remediating learning disabilities. I went through an intensive 6 week training and several smaller instances of continuing education. In many ways I am still in training. I am also in charge of the bookkeeping (self-taught), general management and marketing. I had almost 8 years of experience in architecture when the company I worked for folded. I had started taking the ARE's but have since stopped. Many of my skills from architecture apply including project management, marketing, sketching, and even providing vision for the future of the company in planning for growth and expansion.

If you are wondering, this path isn't easy to break into, I had a lucky break. Places like this don't normally hire ex-architects.

"Has anyone here made a career change recently?"

Yes, I have. 12 years practicing. MArch. Licensed. Practiced construction management for 3 years prior to jumping ship.

"...I would like to hear about what you are doing now..."

Medical School.

"...and what made you decide to go into that new field..."

Top reasons (in the order mentioned):

#1 Overall, somewhat similar to CMNDCTRL's post above, esp the part about masturbatory attitudes in the profession. Most contemporary architect/ aspiring architects are intimidated and afraid of math and science so thankfully not many have the tenacity, courage, or brains to go into the sciences, esp. medicine. So its a good thing to get into because most of the idiocracy is either too incompetent or simply incapable of going where I am going (to get away from 97.5% of the idiots, YES YOU! reading this post once and for all).

#2 The contemporary status quo of the profession is insulting to my honor, integrity, and therefore not worthy of my trust, let alone lending my voice to recommending it to others. When a group chooses overtly or through default to have miscreants such as Gehry represent it, you know its only a matter of time until the public figures it out and architects are valued as much as the local (albeit flashy) used car saleman.

#3 Architecture is no longer about serving people and solving meaningful problems. I like people and solving problems of significant consequence for them. It makes me feel useful and good. I hate mentally masturbating for 12 hours a day in front of a computer screen in a cubicle cave. This has made me feel dirty, selfish, myopic, and a waste of plasma. (sheesh, by realizing this I just gained an entirely new insight into why so many in the profession of architecture are proponents of suicidal social policies...scary).

In this new Dark Age the west is just beginning to enter, computer skills are hardly tranferrable/ leverageable into wealth of socioeconomic advantage for the computer user. Even less so when those computer skills are wasted on such ephemeral tasks such as "art". In fact, the computer as a tool of production, when paired with the tyranny of the IRS is actually a massive ball and chain used to everyone else's exclusive of the actual user's. On the other hand, Empirical knowledge is leverageable/ transferrable into socioeconomic advantage. Computer skills are the anti-thesis of empirical knowledge. Investing in becoming familiar with the latest software is like painstakingly building a detailed replica of the parthenon on the top of the stoutest sand dune in the Sahara during 1 year lull in the wind. Then, when the inevitable sandstorm howls, all of the investment is completely gone underneath the sands of the latest incarnation of the latest software package as peddled by the AIA and AutoDesk.

I think this is what CMNDCTRL eludes to when he says, "i do not think there is much hope in the related fields. try engineering! try scientific research! do something in which creative thinking is an asset but with real metrics backing it up!" ABSOLUTELY.

Architecture is no longer about real metrics, or science at all. Rather it has chosen the path of devoting itself to the pursuit of some nebulous, subjectively defined "modern art". Architecture is no longer about solving meaninful problems is and is more devoted to social engineering schemes than the actual practice of the art of masterfully building (e.g. what in the hell is up with the AIA's devotion to "diversity, sustainability" among other things? How does this advance the interests of the average practicioner? Like a moth to a flame...) Artists are perpetual starvers in any society be it poor or prosperous. Therefore:

#4 I HATE marxists and their stupid, dysgenic modern art crap and what it has done to my formerly beloved, prosperous and healthy USA. I LOVE science. Down with Modern Art. Up with Common Sense, Reason, Enlightment, and an understanding and devotion to the principles of Classical Architecture and western civilization.

#5 Honestly, I like money. Money = Freedom so what is there not to like about having at least a little more than you desperately need? (as opposed to the status quo in architecture of perpetually having less than you desperately need). There really is a fine line between having just a little more than you need and owning your own life versus the perpetual indentured servititude contemporary architecture has dictated to the majority of young architects.

#6 The aforementioned is generally out of reach for me in architecture these days, as I have no rich uncle or well connected family member in the upper echelons of academia or the AIA to protect me from the abuses the profession deals out to its young.

#7 There are several "markets" which still afford a reasonable chance of success for me to aspire to what I aspire, Health Care being but one of them. The A/E/C industry is generally bankrupt as far as providing viable opportunities for honest, intelligent, hard working young guns.

Wow Marxists, that was quite a response. Well, it seems you have left the profession but somehow managed to hang on to that very characteristic that you are so fond of about architects. Could it be the person and not the profession? If your third profession turns out to be a bust, I think you would make a decent architecture theorist - that's theorist, well, maybe even "critic".

In all seriousness, going into Med school sound like you will be in school for another 10 years and coming out by the time you are well into your mid 40s. How do you justify spending 10 years and all that $$$chooling with "no rich uncle" (or rich daddy)?

burningman (and all who hyperly deconstructive to the point of self destruction):

I am in my early 30's. I've made the appropriate arrangements to be practicing medicine by the time I am in my late 30's.

If you (and all the other dolts who visit this forum) had any brains and could perceive much past the insides of your own vapid prefrontal cortexes, you'd realize that the structural shift in the economy is no "minor tremor" It is the full blown big one of 12.0 on the richter scale magnitude where California gets sloughed off into the Pacific Ocean.

Let me help you understand: If you are my age (early 30's), due to DEMOGRAPHICS (which are completely unalterable for all intents and purposes at this point) reset the clock for everyone living in the USA and Europe. Thiis officially happened in late 2008 when the boomers of the US and the perpetual pensioners in Europe could no longer lie to themselves that western civlization is on the big time economic downward spiral.

If you younger than 35, do not let them continue to lie to you. That is, everyone including myself, has lost 10+/- years of their lives, virtually overnight. The boomers and pensioners will not be retiring until they are forced to by their advancing old age and corresponding health limitations. Since the boomer's life expectancy increased approximately 10 years over their predecessors' the grow, learn, work, work, work, retire paradigm has FUNDAMENTALLY shifted about 10 years.

Although the boomers cannot lie to themselves any longer, they will maintain the lie to the younger generation as long as they can. For some of us the jig is already up. We know that since we won't have any meaningful access to viable professional growth opportunities (again, GENERALLY) we might as well do something in during these 10 years in preparation for when we are 40.

30 was the new 20 two decades ago. In late 2008 40 became the new 30. Its just the way it is.

So I figure if I start practicing medicine at 40 this is like starting at 20 years of age only a handful of decades ago. I aqm alright with that. In fact, ecstatic.

But if you are an exception to this rule and anticipate access to viable opportunities for professional growth and expansion, more power to you (you are porbably 1/5 of 1% of the profession).

Or, if you want to continue to wallow in the excesses of cognitive dissonance, thats your choice and I won't stop anyone because freedom is the one thing that should always be preserved. That is, you want to harm yourself and any family you might be responsible for providing economically for? Fine by me...your choice.

i'm in grad school now going into a different direction...still design, but not on the massive scale of arch.... looking to teach college and get a few others things going.......i learned to diversify myself 10 years ago, and to this day, it has helped me keep food on the table...just sayin'

I would have pursued commercial aviation straight out of high school if the aviation field didn't make architecture look like, well... architecture. And that's not a good thing. Even looked into it again a bit in '08. I'm thinking of completing the exams, getting my license, then getting out. My capstone project, if you will. I've got quite a bit of residential experience and connections in the field, one can fairly easily practice whether architecture is your day job or not. I figure if architecture isn't my real job, just my hobby, it might actually become enjoyable again.

Im a business analyst now but I hate it. Money is good but job isn't. I got my BArch in May 09' and haven't had any luck finding a job in arch. I'm debating if it's worth persuing arch, worth pursing a masters. IDK.

I really don't know what to do.

If any field is less humane than architecture, it's commercial aviation. I looked into that myself... yikes.

Quentin - from what i know (only information through friends who are MBA's etc), the analyst position is like being an arch intern, except it NEVER ends unless you move up to the next level (plus you actually get paid well). but if you make associate it becomes a different world. P/E, I-Banking, Consulting, Health Care administration etc. etc. etc. are all "outs" for the typical associate (with good credentials). i am not expert, but it seems a crappy "internship" as an analyst in which you are paid well trumps a crappy "internship" in which you are not paid well, have little hope for advancement, and must continue down the path to keep the bills paid until you die.

could you work your way up to associate/manager level? or is that impossible at your firm without business training? if you can, couldn't you work a few more years then take a HUGE chunk of cash (and no debt) back into architecture as a hobby (like mentioned above) when things recover in 4-6 years?

most of us hate our jobs at some point. it might be better to hate your job but still have your financial freedom for the time being.

good luck.

Hater better work on his bedside manner if he wants to be a doctor, I'm just sayin.

CMN, idk if I could work my way up but I could for sure make more money. I could easily rack up a few more years of experience and job hop to better pay. I work for a defense contractor in DC, there are a ton of these jobs around the area. I could probly make $75k by 30, w/o much hassel. But I just hate the field. Idk how people do this day-n-day-out for 40 years. Whole point of me paying expensive out-of-state tution was to do architecture. I just didn't know the arch industry would be in such the crapper when I graduated. And it doesn't seem like it will ever fully recover :(

I admit it could be much worst. I least like you said I have financial freedom, just not happiness. Which I'm sure many would trade with me.

Quentin - right! just be optimistic! there is ROOM for you to be optimistic. they say money does not buy happiness, but "they" were obviously baby boomers who never had to worry about money (ha, just a jovial jab, don't flame me).

a lot of people WOULD trade with you. for architects, that kind of money is YEARS away from them as interns (if they ever get there. i agree with your assessment that things will NEVER be back to the way they were in the early 2000's. this might be the new normal for architects).

so be patient. do competitions at night? try to get the license however you can, then architecture can be your "fun" job. i fully plan to practice medicine a few years, then as i have gotten myself to a good financial position, (which will be far faster since i have been so used to being a poor architect) i can take the odd house/bank/library job that i can find and do only the projects i WANT to do. that seems like a nice option in comparison to most architects who must take "any job that comes along" even in the good times..

good luck.

"Hater better work on his bedside manner if he wants to be a doctor, I'm just sayin."

Bedside manner is commensurate with the psychological predisposition of the intended recipient of information.

The prognosis for this profession is a 5% chance of recovery.

And since cognitive dissonance has set in in 98% of the poster's heads here, being all warm and fuzzy with a seriously delusional crowd will not help the patient.

You all are going to have to get scared if you want to increase the chances of recovery. Really scared. And by reality. Not fantasy. Your fantasies are what have 98% of you thinking you have a 95% chance of recovery.

our choice, reality or more cognitive dissonance. It is only your choice that you all can make.

"do competitions at night?"

A complete, utter waste of time (at least if the objective is to use your finite time and energy on this green earth for your own advancement and not some scheming corporation's or government bureaucracy's).

well....if he wants to use his time for creative pursuits, he will have the option if he keeps the more lucrative job. my point was that architecture would not be his income generator and could therefore be his means of creative release.

don't get me wrong, i do NOT suggests competitions for free cash. they are equal to slavery for architects (free INTELLECTUAL property for the jury) with LITTLE hope of compensation or even ANY sort of payback.

nevertheless, that might be the small part of architecture that is fun for him. so if it is MERELY fun, what's the harm? if he enjoys something else more, then by all means, he could do that too, since he has a pretty good job!

@ CMNDCTRL,

Fair enough: Point CMNDCTRL.

he he he. I think you wildly underestimate both the time it takes to practice medicine and the time it takes to do the "odd house/bank/library job".

... I have always been under the impression that European competitions are often the jumpstart young firms need (as the winner often is commissioned to build it). I suppose one would have to look at the brief carefully.

Engineering - it used to be civils (structural, transportation, urban, site, geotech, hydro) were the most stable (public money flowed when private projects dried up) and, i suppose especially for architects, the most easy to jump into. The field as a whole requires less depth of knowledge in math/hard science. This recession has hit the field pretty hard though - even with the stimulus money salvaging a lot of projects. Maybe the chemical engineers are doing better with all the med/pharm money helping feed the research.

To all the med folks: why is it that the arch profession doesn't borrow from the medical model of using alternative funding to do good (NIH is well aware that the current obesity issue and its associated health problems can be solved by building better cities, so where's all that research funding going? Doctors? Shouldn't those teams include design professionals -those that care for the issue anyway-?). I take issue with the state of the profession, but am equally inspired by those that find a way to carry out their missions (AfH, DesignCorps, etc) and still be able to make a living, albeit not one as posh as a hedge fund broker.

Actually, 3TK, chemistry is a gradually shrinking field. Not sure how that directly affects the engineering side of it but I doubt it helps. I also personally know chemists with only bachelors that are not all that well off either.

Hi Quentin,

you wrote:
"Idk how people do this day-n-day-out for 40 years"
...
I admit it could be much worst. I least like you said I have financial freedom, just not happiness."




What is it about the job that you hate most? Boredom? Late nights with endless repetitive/non-thinking work????


I am seriously going to jump ship out of architecture FOR GOOD (and never looking back). I know a fair bit about my profession, but I know nothing about the world of finance.

My problem is entirely different from yours and I'd like to get out of my current situation by maybe making a switch into finance as a business analyst..
But I'd like to know what I could potentially get into.

Hope it's no imposition...

I have two sidework/hobbies. One is website developing, another is stock trading. I guess I can't say trading yet since I still use my own family's money. I am a gambler who likes to make risky decision in terms of finance.
Having played stock trading for 10 years. Although not constantly, I have experienced three economy crisis within several countries. I have graduaaly developed my little system for the trading. Because I have strong broader micro-economy sense, I figured I did at least 70% better than individual investor.

Hopefully someday I can trade with other people's money.

Since I was born with artistic talent, like sketching and modeling, and sensitive to human feeling, I guess my area will always with architecture field. Real estate development is other area I would like to break into. This could use my design knowledge and business sense.

Also being an architect, I guess most you guys are good looking. How about some career need good communication skill?

Oldf story is inspiring too. I know good rhino and related blob modeling and scripting skill is highly asked in china.

Old Fogey

Now I've taken the XCode/Cocoa learning and translated it over into Revit API, where I'm starting to work on doing my own Revit add-ins with the help of all the good info on Autodesk University and the many folks that blog

tell me more - have 5 years exp with Revit and have also done .mel, visual basic,C# and have been trying to write Revit API - and am looking for tutorials and other self learning processes

forumpass1

I'd be for starting a thread on the Revit API, or for programming in architectural software as well (it seems like Rhino also uses a .NET development framework). I'm teaching myself the API as we speak, and it could be good to have a shared resource as I try and write 'Hello World' in columns.

On the original topic, I'm in school for building science (after getting a professional degree in architecture), and I don't actually know where that will take me! I could be a consultant or I could go back to being an architect, or maybe I'll wind up doing some combination of the two. Either way, I think a combination of the design and technical side is very satisfying, if I can figure out how to make it work with both in equal measure - when I was an architect, I missed the technical parts (e.g., science) and when I was a consultant, I missed designing.

Although it's technically changing careers, I don't feel like it's changing careers per se...more of an 'enhancement'.