True creativity and a clientele desiring anything you would be proud to be associated with is rare. If I can do 4 or 5 great buildings in my lifetime, then I will be happy....everything else just provides food and wine.

I bet you will pick the best fypon medallions ever! (And see the thread about jobs going to people with jobs, something to consider if you want to do more than dream about those greener pastures.)

as a recent grad, i would take any job you can find that is in the industry, just to build up the experience. No reason to be so picky right out of school in this kind of economy on design principle alone. It most likely would only hurt you in the long run, as you would be passing up a couple years experience. Then when (if) the economy improves, you would be at the back of the line really of those benefiting.


Also, no matter where you eventually work, you wont like every single aspect of the job anyway, unless you find that rare job that lets you do only the things you like best.

Perhaps spending a couple years in that type of job will make you appreciate something better in the future.

And look at it as a way to gain experience in the industry. If all you have done is de-ice planes, you wont know how to build anything. At the very least, even if you disagree with the design intent, you can learn about construction.

plus, being just out of school, I would hardly consider this "selling out"

In my opinion:
Turning down a job because you think it's beneath you (when you actually have no better option) is a terrible idea.

You seem to already know this.

You probably can find someone out there that will say to take the high-road and pass on the "copy & paste gig", but you seem to know you have no better choice (unless you actually do have something better lined up). go with your gut.

... and i wouldn't consider turning down a decent job (with no other solid prospects) as the "high-road"

Actually, taking the job seems more noble and mature then holding out.

Few, if any, jobs are perfect and the "high road" is mostly a myth. Every job offers a chance to learn ... to learn more about how buildings go together ... to learn how to work more effectively with other member of the building team ... to learn how to sell better design to clients ... to learn more about yourself. Being a good architect is a multi-faceted challenge and, with respect to the breadth of required skills, not remotely similar to what you do in school.

If you think of yourself as "a content little cad-monkey" then that's what you'll be. On the other hand, if you approach the situation from the standpoing of a) what can I take away from this that will be valuable to me in the future? and b) what can I contribute to make this firm a better firm, and a better place to work? then you're much more likely to have a positive experience.

Be grateful you have an opportunity in architecture.

Although, yes I am fresh out of grad school, I did have 2yrs experience at another similar firm after undergrad, so I somewhat know what I'd be getting into.

I by no means think its beneath me, I suppose my aspirations are higher. iheartbooks-my gut does tell me to go with what I can get and as marmkid said, make the best of it and gain more construction experience. I suppose I have mentally made my decision to pursue this opportunity, but just to not lose my ambition to be in a design gratifying environment.

thanks for the insight, I think I just needed the reassurance

I think the "high road" mentality really only applies when there are other choices available to you. For example, if you have 2 job offers, one with a place you dont like, but the pay is higher, and the other with your "dream" job yet a lower salary


perhaps then you take the high road and take the "better" job while sacrificing some salary



2 years experience is great, but in 1-2 years, 4 years experience will look a whole lot better than just 2.


Rarely can anyone find their dream job right out of school, so its good you have high aspirations.



Anyone who tells you to de-ice planes rather than take this job are either looking to take the job for themselves, or full of crap.

Seems like you know what you are doing though, good luck with things!

De-icing doesn't sound like a year round job, no matter where you live. That makes fypon smell green.

hey 28, i faced a similar situation, only my options were 1) stripmall coffeeshops 2) stay as an admin assistant for the time being.

luckily (in a way) i didn't get that job. when i went on the strip mall coffee shop interview, i think they could tell that i wanted something more (even though i kept saying yes i want it! i will learn so much etc etc etc). i _would_ have taken that job was it offered to me, but i know i would have gotten pretty unhappy pretty quickly. i would have basically been helping perpetuate exactly what i most oppose in terms of consumer culture, the built environment, etc. so: in retrospect, not getting the job was a blessing in disguise. i think the money would have been comparable to what i'm getting now.

i also know that any experience is good experience. but a few people (employed, and with much more experience) have told me that it is important not to take any old job that comes your way. so i guess what other people think just depends.

that said, de-icing planes could make you feel just as sick as redrawing suburbia. i'm still admin assistanting, and it's making me feel pretty awful (though, i have been doing this a year, now).

sorry there are no easy answers, it's a tough pickle to be in (but at least a paid pickle)

De-icing planes will make you sicker than suburbia!

Ethylene glycol is much more toxic to your health than inhaling petro-based particulate air pollution or living with a venomous, petty and jealous spouse.

if you just imagine those fypon medallions to be fancy ornate plastic areolas awaiting nipples, then you'll be fine.

also - who says they need to go on the ceiling?

and you can make custom moulds of anything! if someone approaches you to spec one of those ridiculous plastic wall fountains - just model your face (or some other "appropriate" body part) in rhino and slap it on there! done - design personalized.

i think plane de-icing sounds pretty cool. i always wondered what it was like to be in that little cab spraying the plane down with that blue liquid. to me that beats cookie cutter suburban architecture any day (see various threads on professional practice and personal ethics). $35k ain't worth doing something you are personally opposed to; better opportunities will come and the fact that you are willing to spray down places shows me that you will take advantage of them when they do.

no such thing as selling out or doing crappy architecture if you are doing it the way you think it should be done, even if it's post colonialism in neo suburbia Nevada...
take what you can get.

I brushed away all my values for a job this year; it is an industry I had swore I would never touch. Money talks!

I don't understand why people consider this "selling out." If there are no jobs in our field and another employer wants to hire you to do something unrelated but are willing to pay you decently - it's a no-brainer.

I am very into "high-design" but if I were a senior employer in the future and looked at someones resume during these past few years and saw that a candidate was in an entirely different profession, I wouldn't pass any judgement at all.

med. you are well known here for seeing the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is. the simple fact is that employers will - be it fair or not - evaluate gaps in continuity on resumes and assess candidates accordingly. it a natural response, and it's an appropriate business mentality.

all else being equal, candidates with unbroken work records are going to have an advantage over those who have been out of work for extended periods during this recession.

that's the fact and it's a fact that needs to be recognized - and addressed - by candidates going forward. this condition will only diminish when our profession moves from a "buyer's market" back to a "seller's market" for labor.

the key part of this statement being "all else being equal," which is absolutely never the case. i'm not a firm owner, but if i were and i had two candidates, one with a professional demeanor, kick ass portfolio, and had spent the last year de-icing planes and another candidate who had a professional demeanor, a so-so portfolio filled with strip malls and exurban residential with an unbroken employment record in architecture, i still probably take the first guy or gal. it also depends whether i need a designer or technician. in any case, while a continuous employment record in this economy points to an individual's professional experience (and also survival instincts), it's only one component of many that goes into a hiring decision, as i'm sure you well know. that's why i still say, follow your own path instead of being miserable in an architecture firm you don't want to be in just because in some hypothetical professional world you think the experience will make you more "marketable" later on.

now, that's even remotely close to "all else being equal" is it?

sorry ... now, that's not even remotely close to "all else being equal" is it?

precisely, you will never have a candidate pool with two candidates being equal, so it's a moot point. yes, maintaining continuous employment is a plus, but with so many other factors going into hiring decisions, it's simply one of many, and not a reason to take a position that you think will leave you dissatisfied. that's my opinion, i know many will disagree.

mostly agree with everyone here, though i'll add a consideration. what do you ideally want to do in practice? if you want to work for a corporate firm that does airports, working at an airport de-icing planes may actually be a great idea and make you more competitive when applying to firms that specialize in this market, whereas picking medallions may be the less useful experience, even if it places you more immediately within architectural practice.

on the contrary, if you do want to do residential, retail, upfit, interiors, etc, then the spec home job may be very valuable experience, even if it is not what you thought you would be doing.

and to extend this logic, if you know for a fact that you want to eventually get into hospital design, finding temporary work as a hospital janitor is probably going to be of greater value as you apply than picking medallions or de-icing planes.

of course if you don't know what sort of practice you eventually want to call your own, then you might as well take the spec arch job as it gets you valuable experience --- or the de-icing job as it just sounds cool --- or some other job that IS WORTH IT TO YOU

you have got to be kidding. de-icing planes or gaining experience in an office. wake up. take what you can get and try to learn from it no matter how boring it is.

BBB, I am not kidding. I spent the first sixteen months out of school in a metal fab shop as a detailer and parts cutter and even got to help manage some projects and do take offs for bids.

Since then I've had three office jobs and have gone on about fifteen interviews to get those three jobs. My time working at the fab shop has almost always come up in interviews and when it has, it has always been viewed very positively. But then again, I have mostly practiced as a technical designer and low level project manager so far. So that technical & construction experience was congruent with my later roles within firms.

Kids who get a barch or an march plus a minor or second major are plentiful, as are people with a little office experience in something/anything.

But in my experience, limited as it may be, having legitimate work experience in an area related to the sort of professional practice in which I was engaged was to my benefit, both practically and with respect to marketing myself.

So I stand by my comment. If you know you want to get into airport design, having worked at an airport and learning a bit about how they work as an employee probably makes your application stand out more than unrelated, low-level design experience which everyone will have. Of course, as I said, if you don't want to get into airport design, working at one is probably not strategically valuable.

jmang...I might just be cynical, but your experience in metal fab compared to de-icing planes is like comparing apples to oranges in archiland.

You see, many architects have a sort of romantic fantasy with anything remotely associated with being an artisan, artist, craftsman, etc. While most spend their days as little more than business managers with cad skills, they are ferocious weekend warriors, closet contractors, furniture designers, light fixture fabricators, oil painters, jewelry makers, etc. Its an escape from what was once a promise of a creatively fullfilling career turned mundane. Your stories allow the interviewer to momentarily forget the reality. They listen to your words while drifting off into a daydream fantasy where they righteously grab the torch out of the surly contractor's hand and show him how it's really done. Everyone stands in awe as this office schmuck lays down a perfect fillet weld.

Back to reality, most architects have little real field experience beyond a few summers being a laborer or apprentice carpenter. Nevertheless, those summers were valuable, and talked about with great pride. Its a sort of trump card that comes out when any dispute over the proper way to detail something arises in the office.

Cynicism aside, your experience is great asset to an office and will inform your decisions for many years to come. But to compare it with hosing down planes is a bit far fetched.

hosing down airplanes yes, maybe a waste of time, but learning how an airport works from the inside, not a waste

what is the value of working in a hospital? a school? a university? a factory? a lab? it is not the little widget you learn to wield. it is the sense of the enterprise that you develop, the details you glean, the processes, flows and rituals you observe.

it would be a waste if you go and de-ice your plane everyday and hang out

but if you explore, if you talk to everyone you can, if you ask questions, if you learn how things work, it is a window, and opportunity for insight, a chance to develop a perspective on a project type that few designers will have

of course this is true for any type of work you'd like to do

cadcroupier, your post depressed me a little bit. it is definitely not the only perspective on the matter - but... i think you definitely got at something real and deep with the whole,

"...many architects have a sort of romantic fantasy with anything remotely associated with being an artisan, artist, craftsman, etc. While most spend their days as little more than business managers with cad skills, they are ferocious weekend warriors, closet contractors, furniture designers, light fixture fabricators, oil painters, jewelry makers, etc. Its an escape from what was once a promise of a creatively fullfilling career turned mundane."