It is my first time posting here, and I'm thankful to find a community of architects to ask for advice on my career step!
I recently graduated with a B.S. Architecture degree from Kent, Ohio. I currently live in PA, and I have been offered a full time detailing position at SBC Building Systems in Ambridge, PA. I have also been accepted in the Graduate M.Arch program at Kent, Ohio, and I'm a little confused when deciding between the two options.
I am currently without a car, and I don't have very much money to support myself outside of school. I have been accepted into the M.Arch program at Kent, but I have not received any financial aide except for private loans.
My salary at SBC Building Systems will be $13/hour for full time and benefits, but I will not be able to return to Kent for Grad school, and I will have to re-apply to another school once I can save up the money to return to school for my M.Arch.
My student loans will total around $50,000 if I graduate with my M.Arch. I'm struggling to make ends meet, but I do have about 1 year of internship experience from my undergrad. However, most of my internships have been unpaid or part-time in the past, and I am thankful for my first full-time offer!
Do you think it will be possible to repay my student loans and support myself if I decide to go to graduate school? Are most architectural internships after M.Arch full-time positions with benefits? What is an average salary for an M.Arch graduate?
$13 an hour? If that's the wage available to you in your area then you better leave quick because $50k in loans will haunt you for the next decade and a half.
I have a BA architecture and make $18 an hour with benefits (first job in the profession ever). I think you should take the job and continue looking for a better job. I think experience before graduate school is a wise choice (probably because it's the choice I made)
Why, oh why, do people continue borrowing and spending money on non-accredited architecture degrees? It's a waste, whether you do it as an undergrad or grad student.
If you've got an unaccredited BA/BS, you just spent four(+) years and a lot of money for nothing. If, after all that, you're still determined to continue, then by all means spend more time and money (assuming you have it). But at least make absolutely sure you get an accredited professional degree as quickly and cheaply as you can manage.
As a practical matter, there are only two things to keep in mind here:
1) you need a NAAB-accredited degree in order to eventually get a license to practice architecture independently (a few states have non-NAAB pathways to licensure, but they tend to be difficult to qualify for). Even if you have no intention of ever opening your own practice, not being able to get a license will put a hard ceiling on your career prospects.
2) you don't need a masters degree unless you intend to teach someday. And if you do intend to teach, understand that the prospects for employment in academic architecture are orders of magnitude more dismal than in the profession in general. So good luck with that.
Lots of architecture schools have switched to a 4+2 MArch program. But this is not because it makes any sense from the student's perspective. It just allows the universities to charge you grad student tuition for two years on top of four years of undergrad for an education that realistically ought to only take you three years total to complete if they didn't pad it out so much. It also locks students in because if you try to break away after the first four years, you can't do anything with the BA/BS they give you as a token for having been suckered in the first place. That's all great for the Universities' bottom lines, but not so great for students.
gwharton - we really need someone to go around to HS's around the country and tell kids interested in going into arch (especially those who come from limited means) to apply to 5-year programs...
Thank you for your replies and advice! Each response was very helpful and insightful.
The 4+2 was actually more affordable than the 5 year programs in the PA region from the get-go, and they offered me the most scholarship money. I'm determined to become a licensed architect somehow... but it might be best to listen to C.Watts! I think I'll take the job, keep looking, (stay with my parents ;)), and save my earnings for a deferment next year.
Looking at the loan calculator, I'll pay back my Master's in 30 years if I never have kids or a car or a house.
good catch GH warton. but of course, a BS Arch can't get you a license anyways (I have an accredited BS Arch as my first degree, of course I also have an accredited MArch as well).
30 year payback is KINDA a long time. That was my point.
I got a full ride for my masters. I still came out with 20K in debt, because of living expenses. It was a TOTAL pain in the A$$ to pay back. I paid it back by buying an abandoned crack house, renovating it myself over 3 years, living in the hood, and selling it for a profit. It was probably the dumbest thing I've ever done (maybe??) but I did make enough to pay off the loans (and build a nest egg for myself). (Hint: if you're going to flip a house the slow way, like I did, pick a house in a nice neighborhood...)
I can't imagine what happens to young people coming out with $50 - $200 K in debt. What a joke. You might as well not go to school. Or, go to school for something that actually pays you money, not architecture.
Work your butt off for a couple of years, save your money, and then re apply for school. Try to get out without debt, or as little as possible. You'll thank yourself later.
If that is the only job you can find, try it for a year just to get more experience and learn detailing before returning to grad school. $13/hr is measly compared to what I got paid as an undergrad intern. $18.50/hr. It definitely is not a long term job but the experience could be worth it.
Haha :) It's true! I'm really glad for these responses because I get to negotiate my salary next week before starting. I really like working at SBC, and I get to learn a lot. I think with a fair salary, I would like to stay for a long time and fill my IDP before returning to grad school. (Saves on interest, which looks like the real trouble!) Thanks everyone!
Graduate School or Full Time Work?
Hi everyone,
It is my first time posting here, and I'm thankful to find a community of architects to ask for advice on my career step!
I recently graduated with a B.S. Architecture degree from Kent, Ohio. I currently live in PA, and I have been offered a full time detailing position at SBC Building Systems in Ambridge, PA. I have also been accepted in the Graduate M.Arch program at Kent, Ohio, and I'm a little confused when deciding between the two options.
I am currently without a car, and I don't have very much money to support myself outside of school. I have been accepted into the M.Arch program at Kent, but I have not received any financial aide except for private loans.
My salary at SBC Building Systems will be $13/hour for full time and benefits, but I will not be able to return to Kent for Grad school, and I will have to re-apply to another school once I can save up the money to return to school for my M.Arch.
My student loans will total around $50,000 if I graduate with my M.Arch. I'm struggling to make ends meet, but I do have about 1 year of internship experience from my undergrad. However, most of my internships have been unpaid or part-time in the past, and I am thankful for my first full-time offer!
Do you think it will be possible to repay my student loans and support myself if I decide to go to graduate school? Are most architectural internships after M.Arch full-time positions with benefits? What is an average salary for an M.Arch graduate?
Thank you in advance for your time and advice!
Yours Sincerely,
Apoorva Juneja
go to google. google "loan repayment calculator". figure out how much you have to pay every month to pay back a $50,000 loan in 10 years.
then, figure you will make maybe a bit more than $13/hr once you have your masters. Maybe $20.
How much will you have left over every month once you pay the loan each month? Will it be enough to live on?
Then, google "opportunity cost". Figure out your real cost for going to grad school.
then, where do you want to be in 10 years? Which option allows you to get there? (Hint: there are more than 2 options).
$13 an hour? If that's the wage available to you in your area then you better leave quick because $50k in loans will haunt you for the next decade and a half.
Why, oh why, do people continue borrowing and spending money on non-accredited architecture degrees? It's a waste, whether you do it as an undergrad or grad student.
If you've got an unaccredited BA/BS, you just spent four(+) years and a lot of money for nothing. If, after all that, you're still determined to continue, then by all means spend more time and money (assuming you have it). But at least make absolutely sure you get an accredited professional degree as quickly and cheaply as you can manage.
As a practical matter, there are only two things to keep in mind here:
1) you need a NAAB-accredited degree in order to eventually get a license to practice architecture independently (a few states have non-NAAB pathways to licensure, but they tend to be difficult to qualify for). Even if you have no intention of ever opening your own practice, not being able to get a license will put a hard ceiling on your career prospects.
2) you don't need a masters degree unless you intend to teach someday. And if you do intend to teach, understand that the prospects for employment in academic architecture are orders of magnitude more dismal than in the profession in general. So good luck with that.
Lots of architecture schools have switched to a 4+2 MArch program. But this is not because it makes any sense from the student's perspective. It just allows the universities to charge you grad student tuition for two years on top of four years of undergrad for an education that realistically ought to only take you three years total to complete if they didn't pad it out so much. It also locks students in because if you try to break away after the first four years, you can't do anything with the BA/BS they give you as a token for having been suckered in the first place. That's all great for the Universities' bottom lines, but not so great for students.
gwharton - we really need someone to go around to HS's around the country and tell kids interested in going into arch (especially those who come from limited means) to apply to 5-year programs...
I have an unaccredited degree and I'm doing just fine. 15 states allow you to be licensed without a professional degree.
Thank you for your replies and advice! Each response was very helpful and insightful.
The 4+2 was actually more affordable than the 5 year programs in the PA region from the get-go, and they offered me the most scholarship money. I'm determined to become a licensed architect somehow... but it might be best to listen to C.Watts! I think I'll take the job, keep looking, (stay with my parents ;)), and save my earnings for a deferment next year.
Looking at the loan calculator, I'll pay back my Master's in 30 years if I never have kids or a car or a house.
good catch GH warton. but of course, a BS Arch can't get you a license anyways (I have an accredited BS Arch as my first degree, of course I also have an accredited MArch as well).
30 year payback is KINDA a long time. That was my point.
I got a full ride for my masters. I still came out with 20K in debt, because of living expenses. It was a TOTAL pain in the A$$ to pay back. I paid it back by buying an abandoned crack house, renovating it myself over 3 years, living in the hood, and selling it for a profit. It was probably the dumbest thing I've ever done (maybe??) but I did make enough to pay off the loans (and build a nest egg for myself). (Hint: if you're going to flip a house the slow way, like I did, pick a house in a nice neighborhood...)
I can't imagine what happens to young people coming out with $50 - $200 K in debt. What a joke. You might as well not go to school. Or, go to school for something that actually pays you money, not architecture.
Work your butt off for a couple of years, save your money, and then re apply for school. Try to get out without debt, or as little as possible. You'll thank yourself later.
If that is the only job you can find, try it for a year just to get more experience and learn detailing before returning to grad school. $13/hr is measly compared to what I got paid as an undergrad intern. $18.50/hr. It definitely is not a long term job but the experience could be worth it.
13 $ an hour hhahahhahahaha
Work at Trader Joe's and make 12$ an hour. And you will get to hit on yoga moms.
Haha :) It's true! I'm really glad for these responses because I get to negotiate my salary next week before starting. I really like working at SBC, and I get to learn a lot. I think with a fair salary, I would like to stay for a long time and fill my IDP before returning to grad school. (Saves on interest, which looks like the real trouble!) Thanks everyone!
Yes, it's the interest, but it's also a couple of other numbers:
1) your opportunity cost (lost wages) for the time you are in school
2) the very high cost of tuition (try to get a great scholarship, and/or go to a cheap school)
3) your cost of living (try to keep it as low as possible while you are in school and also while saving to go to school)
50k for two years seems like a lot, any cheaper public school options?
Given your choices, I would say:
- Take the job. Then right away look for a better job in an actual architecture firm so that you can get IDP credit.
- Re-apply to better graduate schools (after re-doing your portfolio) and either go to a much better Masters program or one with less debt.
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