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Faking your idp hours

Jan 31 '14 27 Last Comment
Shreya
Jan 31, 14 1:14 pm

i have seen people faking here idp hours? How much does NCARB crosscheck your hours?.

Mainly they fake the supplementary hours, like design competition, construction works, Leadership and Service, because these experiences can run parallel to your full time employment. Their supervisors don't hesitate to approve such non-existent experiences. Can NCARB deny the hours after the supervisor approves them? What sort of verification does ncarb follow? is it advisable to do so?

 

SneakyPete
Jan 31, 14 1:52 pm

Are you asking because you're angry other people do it?

Stop worrying about what other people do unless it impacts you.

 

Are you asking because you want to do it?

Accept the consequences, which could be severe, but aren't likely to be. 

citizen
Jan 31, 14 2:18 pm

The word is fraud.  And Pete's advice is helpful here.  Not to sound too old-fashioned, but why not be honest in your actions, and let others worry about the possible fallout of theirs?

Non Sequitur
Jan 31, 14 2:31 pm

My (Canadian) provincial board checked every-one of my log-book submissions and they did not hesitate to call if they had any questions. I remember on my first submission I had placed some vague info and they requested I submit additional information for every project listed on my log. Every-other submission from there on was done properly, but yet they still checked. Perhaps it depends on how busy your reviewers are.

Nevertheless, I doubt the people who seriously cheat on their logs are plentiful. Too many careers at stake, especially if the board publishes names of those who cheat. At least I know my board does this. Citizen & Pete above have it right.

Shreya
Jan 31, 14 3:28 pm

i wanted to know if its common practice. 

The supplementary hours are hard to crosscheck for a reviewer. Like if i said i volunteered in a soup kitchen(for leadership and service segment) and a supervisor approves it. How can NCARB know its credibility? Its kind of annoying that even voluntary work is held at par with employment experience.

SneakyPete
Jan 31, 14 4:02 pm

Part of architecture's contemporary history is volunteerism and a consideration of the greater good. It's not so surprising that it trickled down into the training methodology.

jla-x
Jan 31, 14 4:44 pm

citizen is correct.  don't worry about others.  don't be the hall monitor. 

b3tadine[sutures]
Jan 31, 14 5:04 pm

as long as the "stick" approach is applied to interns, where none exists for firms failing to provide their interns with the necessary hours to complete IDP, there will always, always be a "gray reporting" in IDP.

LITS4FormZ
Jan 31, 14 5:11 pm

Fake it til you make it, right?

BulgarBlogger
Jan 31, 14 5:41 pm

you know.. in the end it may bite you in the ass... I am a strong believer in Karma. You may get your license by faking your IDP hours, but in the end its going to be a reflection on how competent you are. If you get your own clients, this incompetence may manifest itself in the form of a lawsuit. So what's the point of getting the license dishonestly?

Miles JaffeMiles Jaffe
Jan 31, 14 6:18 pm

IDP is related to competence?

BulgarBlogger
Jan 31, 14 6:21 pm

...theoretically speaking... 

Beepbeep
Jan 31, 14 8:24 pm

Why would you want to start your career in an unethical way? at least wait 15-20 years for that.

Saint in the City
Jan 31, 14 9:00 pm

It's a little tough to tell what the OP actually witnessed occurring.  If someone witnesses interns faking time, and supervisors signing off on bogus time, and this is an observable pattern, then it should be addressed.    

Miles JaffeMiles Jaffe
Jan 31, 14 9:07 pm

Or if the OP is fishing ...

Gregory WalkerGregory Walker
Feb 1, 14 2:27 pm

beta brings up a fair point though: if you're 7 days shy of finishing off something... oh, say the 3A - Bidding and Negotiation (which has 120 hours of requirement, a hard thing to get for some interns) area... and your employer sticks you on a new project which is going to having you running hard for the next 6-12 months on nothing but other experience in other sections, how are you going to get those hours? there's no mandate for them to weave it in; the employer could be a jack-arse and not give you the opportunity since it's not billable for the project they want, etc. in short, it's not in your control. 

 

do you quit and find another firm willing to give you those hours? do you wait 6-12 months, even if it'll be held against you in a personnel review that you're not registered yet? or do you fake those hours? 

thunderclap
Feb 1, 14 3:38 pm

I think it always depends on what you want.  And once you know that, I really think it's simple:

If IDP completion / licensure is one's end goal, then that person should quit and find another job that allows for the remaining balance of hours to  be completed.

If IDP/Licensure is not the end-goal, then wait.

Medusa
Feb 2, 14 2:03 pm

A lot of it remains based on the honor system.  When I was working on IDP, I always made sure I received documentation for things like volunteer hours.  I was never asked by my supervisor to prove anything or audited by NCARB, but it could have happened.  I just don't see why anyone would take the risk.

backbay
Feb 2, 14 6:02 pm

do lunch and learns count?  i have like a billion little certificates

gwharton
Feb 3, 14 12:52 pm

IDP hours have always been of the same type as the time-card accounting reports they are modeled on: works of adaptive fiction.

EKE
Feb 3, 14 1:00 pm

"beta brings up a fair point though: if you're 7 days shy of finishing off something... oh, say the 3A - Bidding and Negotiation (which has 120 hours of requirement, a hard thing to get for some interns) area... and your employer sticks you on a new project which is going to having you running hard for the next 6-12 months on nothing but other experience in other sections, how are you going to get those hours? ...."

As an employer, licensure for my staff is valuable and important.  If an employee of mine came to me and explained that they only needed a few hours in a particular module of IDP to finish up, and the projects they are working on wouldn't provide that experience for the near future, I'd certainly work with them to try to provide the required hours.  If you are in this situation, talk to your boss.

Gregory WalkerGregory Walker
Feb 3, 14 3:41 pm

EKE - you and i may be in a majority of employers who would be happy to accommodate someone. the reality is not everyone is that lucky. and, as beta brings up, there's no enforcement to MAKE the employer comply in a 'timely manner'. it's just not uniform. that's really the only point i'm trying to ask about - what do you do if you're in that minority? 

file
Feb 3, 14 7:58 pm

Greg - I see the point you (and beta) are making about lack of enforcement with respect to employers. And, our firm joins you and EKE and many others in making sure our interns pursue IDP, both with our blessing and with our support.

However, there is a parallel universe in which many employers bristle at the institutionalized idea that students coming out of accredited architecture programs STILL require years and years of continuing education and training in the workplace -- and it's the employers' responsibility not only to provide that training but to do so in a structured way determined by others. I know quite a few people in the industry who go out of their way to avoid hiring people who are subject to the IDP process.

Shreya
Feb 4, 14 9:40 am

Can you tell me the extend to which NCARB goes to verify these hours?

Im sorry to say that i do intend to fake my hours a bit.

As far as ethics is concerned , i have around 3 yr experience working in Germany and India, and im already licensed in both countries. But all these hrs doesn't count because i hadnt registered for idp earlier(im moving to the states for my spouse). So i dont think a bit of ethical faking hurts or makes me less competent. Coz going through an elaborate 5600hr intern is cruel.

  

SneakyPete
Feb 4, 14 10:29 am

I believe they have the authority to demand an audit if they suspect something fishy. Not only that but you need someone to sign off on your hours. I imagine they would be less than thrilled to be party to the possibility of being punished should an audit occur.

Saint in the City
Feb 4, 14 10:54 am

Shreya -- you'll have a hundred good reasons, likely no practical consequences, and plenty of company -- even assistance -- when it comes to faking hours.  

I'd recommend that you don't go that route.  Do what you need to do to get the hours legitimately.  Make it worth something.  

Non Sequitur
Feb 4, 14 11:36 am

Well, if you tell yourself it's ethical, than it must be true... I wish I had thought of faking, it's such a better route than actually working it out. This tread falls in-line with all those "I want to be an amaze-balls architect and cure cancer BUT why do I need to do all this work, can I not, you know, have what ever I want?"

The best you can do is look for reciprocity from your other licenses but the American (and Canadian) standards are much more stringent than most European license req, not to mention India's.

shuellmi
Feb 4, 14 12:54 pm

Shreya,

Is there a great benefit to faking hours?  I think most states now allow people to sit for the A.R.E.'s before completing IDP.

You'll have 6 months to a year to earn IPD hours while taking the exams

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