wait wait, DUBK what is division one?? I'm no a little lost and concerned, cause I am taking mine and (god willing) will finish before they do this "change over".
I think it means that you have to pass at least one of the tests under ARE 3.1 before May 2008 in order to keep testing under the 3.1 system. If not, you have to start using the 4.0 system as of next summer. The 3.1 system will be phased out by Summer 2009. So hopefully everyone can finish them in a year, if they haven't by then....
when doing pro bono work, do you typically draw up a written contract with the beneficiary of your design expertise and generosity? or are verbal contracts enough?
are there ways to limit liability in pro bono work?
are there standard contract conditions specific to donating your time?
(didn't want to start a new thread for this question...)
The information came out in a PDF bulletin that was sent to me via listserve. I tend to squat on a lot of listserves, so I was lucky to get it myself, since I'm not even an associate AIA member. It's like 6 pages though, so rather than copying it or trying to post it somewhere (I don't even know how I would do that), if you want to email me, I'd be happy to send it to you.
mechanical & electrical layout had me worried, and that's one of the ones that they indicated I needed work on, along with structural layout and building section.
I felt I aced the section, but I'm thinking I missed a rated partition somewhere since that's an automatic fail. On the structural layout, don't know, must have neglected to support something properly.
I was really scared about the stair layout. I had finished everything early! 1 hr left after the first three problems and I had 1.5 hrs left to do the stair, since I saved it for last, and couldn't get anything until I had 20 min left.
I suggest do the ones your confident on first so you can get the most time for the troublesome ones.
For the handrails, just make them touch and use 2" rectangles instead of circles, they're easier to see and manipulate.
Well, I took BT this morning. I had just enough time to complete all of the vignettes, and I even caught a few errors/omissions during my final check of each vignette. On one of the vignettes, I got confused about the directions, changed my entire solution, realized that it would lead to a fatal error, then changed everything back.
I'm banking on Professor Dorf's comments in his Solutions book that it's possible to fail a vignette yet still pass the exam.
I did not eat breakfast (I never do. I told myself, "This is just like at work when you don't get a chance to eat lunch until 2 or 3 in the afternoon because you're busy. You'll be fine.") That was a mistake. The room was also warmer than usual, which made me even more uncomfortable.
I also experienced an odd occurrence during my 15 minute break; I'm going to write an entry in Thread Central about it...
If you created a Microsoft Outlook appointment for a previously scheduled ARE exam for a future date, I urge you to check the time. My 13:00 hrs exam time got bumped down to 14:00 hrs. (Maybe I should have run those updates...)
OK, I'm freaking about my test tomorrow regarding which version of specification divisions will be utilized!!!
will it be the familiar 16-division 1995 Masterspec verision cited in all the study material I've used or the 2004 41 sectionsverson??? I'm going to have nightmares about about choosing between division 32-site improvements or the old fangled division 2 - which is now existing conditions!!!!
anybody know what is being tested on the LARE or the ARE these days???
It's still the 16-section format, because all of the multiple choice tests except for the new version of ME (which doesn't seem to have been released yet even though it was due 2 weeks ago) were all developed in 2003 and released in early 2004, which was before the CSI divisions switched to the new system.
But also: you won't encounter more than 1 or 2 CSI questions per division, at most, and they'll be easy - in the sense that if you read the spines of some Sweets catalogs to see what's generally in each major division you'll know all the answers.
And: for the most part architectural elements stay in the same division whether you're in the 16-part system or the 40-part system.
LARE section A- legal and administrative aspects of practice, covers specs, zoning, real estate/environmental law, liens, contracts, ethics, construction admin, corporate structure, project delivery methods, and a few other random subjects that overlap with M&M, PD, CD&S...
this morning I'm chillin before taking one last practice exam, take a walk through the slush of my neighborhood, and then off to prometrics for a 2pm cubicle date!
*sigh* didn't sleep well, but wasn't kept awake by the exam, I was mostly thinking about work. Good thing I'm not there this morning.
that was easy! I definitely over studied- now I see why they offer three exams in two days for the LARE! Why there were sooo many questions on post-occupancy studies I have no clue (7 out of 70!)
anyone here knows enough about epc (emerging professional companion) program to answer this question.
can someone use epc exclusively to obtain all of the 235 training units it allows and have that credited to you as part of your idp-ncarb council record.
in other words in a hypothetical situation could you complete the epc courses/ assignments exclusively ie without any traditional idp training units and be eligible to take the are in states that allow one to test after obtaining a min of 235 units.
responses appreciated.
I think you can only get a max of 16 credits off those EPC tests. I was thinking about doing them and then realized the credit you get is minimal, although still worth it.
You also can't use the EPC to fulfill any of the required units in the various categories. You can only use them as the floating elective units above and beyond the requirements of each experience category.
Haven’t been here in a while…thought I’d share my testing experience.
I am a SoCal resident, and became eligible to take the ARE roughly 4 years ago, while my wife was pregnant with our second child. I immediately signed up for the PD (1st on the list, right?). Being the relatively good test taker I am, I decided not to study , although I did purchase and review the Archiflash cards. Well, that proved to be an ill conceived plan, and the PD test, while not exactly hard, was extremely ambiguous and covered a broad range of topics. The cards had zero relevance to the (PD) test. I realized after that experience that if I was going to pass I would have to put forth some effort.
Fast forward 2 years later (with 2 & 4 year old girls), I begin taking the tests, and for real this time. Having my ego slightly bruised from the first experience, I signed up to take PD (even though I knew I shouldn’t have). My study routine for this test and the others to follow, was 3-4 hours 3 nights a week, and 8 hours on Saturdays, with 3 weeks of studying, and 1 week off with the family before studying for the next.
Well, I passed PD, and the passed each of the remaining sections over the next 9-10 months. Once I received my ARE pass confirmation letter, I signed up for the California Supplemental Exam/ CSE (which is administered 2x a year in SoCal). While studying for the CSE, I applied for and received licenses in CO and AZ (just so I could call myself an Architect…somewhere).
I studied for the CAB with two others who had failed, which proved to be a tremendous help. The CAB was easily the most daunting of all off the tests, and I had heard plenty of horror stories of 60 year old principals in out of state firms who have been unable to pass (you sit before a 3 member panel hiding behind propped up black folders, are asked roughly 30 questions, each with 3-5 parts, some of those have 2 additional sub-parts, and are NOT allowed to use paper or pencil…you can lose track real quick). The CAB questions were fairly easy, but having plenty of real world experience helped. The hard part was stating the “buzz” words they appeared to be looking for (my panel had pretty weak poker faces).
I received my pass letter for the Ca. Supplemental Exam, paid for my license fees, and poof…I am an Architect! It was no easy task, especially in the beginning, and balancing a family life with young children was tough at times, but all in all it proved top be very fruitful.
My advice to test takers:
As some have said, take CD, MM, & PD first. Take the rest of the MC tests. Take the graphics together or closely spaced. Develop of consistent routine and beneficial study location (I HAD to get out my house to soak it up).
My advice to the rebels:
To those of you who simply do not want to deal with this, I guess that’s your prerogative. But when I set out early on in school to become an Architect, I did just that…this test is just a part of that progression. You can make all sorts of justifications, but In California (and most states), you cannot identify yourself as an Architect unless you are currently licensed. Putting the hassle of it all aside, I really enjoyed the process. I approached the situation as an opportunity to learn more about our profession, and I feel I am better for it.
The info on the new ARE 4.0 is on NCARB's website now, along with some clarifications/answers to typical questions.
If I were in the middle of taking these tests again I think these latest changes would prompt me to push forward and finish all of them as quickly as possible - not to push them off until implementation of the new version.
This isn't the first time that there has been a major redesign of the whole test or even that they've come up with a new system that has meant that some candidates are in a position to potentially lose credit for certain already-passed tests.
In general there's a new numbered version of the test every 3 or 4 years, new revisions (i.e. 3.1) once or twice in between that, and huge committee-envisioned revamps, like the one about to happen, every 5 to 10 years.
I do understand that some people have life issues that might make passing all nine tests before July of 2009 difficult, so they might not want to start right now. But for most people this should be enough time - even enough time to fail a few divisions and wait through the 6-month wait to re-take more than once.
Plus, every time they roll out some major change they end up with a blackout period of weeks to months ahead of time, and many of the first takers of the new version experience computer glitches and test-center operation problems, and in some instances there have been huge delays with scoring of the new version (up to 4+ months in spring of 2004) - though the Faq on NCARB's site says there shouldn't be a scoring delay this time...
It seems to me it should be an impetus for many to push forward, not wait.
I'd hurry up and finish too, if I was still taking these.
A big reason for me would be that all the available study materials and information is about the current version. If you start testing at the beginning of 4.0 then you'll be a guinea pig. You won't have all the advice and experience of the people who came before you to fall back on.
For me the ARE Forum and the old PPI forum that came before it were both great sources of information on what to expect and of reassurance from people who made the same mistakes as I did on their tests. I would much rather squeeze in all the tests before summer 2009 and have that wealth of knowledge to pull from than be a trailblazer for the new version.
Even Prof. Dorf - who is the closest thing we have to inside information because he used to work for NCARB developing and scoring tests - has said he has difficulty getting answers to his questions to NCARB these days. So once those new formats and new vignettes start there's not going to be much to go on other than NCARB's own study materials, which are some of the least effective sources.
I Passed MM, which is a HUGE accomplishment for me, considering 90% of what I studied was not on the exam, 80% of what was on the exam wasn't in any of the study materials, and I worked the whole weekend that I was supposed to cram for the exam so I had only lighty covered most points. On to CD.
I on the other hand am now feeling some dejection because Im frustrated that it takes NCARB so effing long to figure out scores and send out results. I mean what happened to technology and automation, and just getting the stuff out?
besides that, I am not all to eager to try to check the prometric site and see whether or not I have to retake the damn thing.
I guess my efforts are better placed on trying to study for the next effing hard one....Gen Structures.
congratulations, here's your sign! (I walked out of MM thinking, "Man, I'm gonna have to get LEED certified before I'll be able to pass THIS exam." By some miracle, I passed...)
squirrelly: GS is next for me, too. April 21st. I'm fortunate to have really good structural engineers on my current project who don't mind 'splaining things to me if I ask. But, I still have a lot of studying to do.
well the little white envelope showed up yesterday in the post, and I was afraid to open it because I felt it may spell out what I had been feeling.....
and as it turns out, NOT GOOD NEWS. (didn't pass LF)
I find myself more depressed this morning because of it. I guess it also doesn't help that it's gray and dark outside in an otherwise bright and sunny Los Angeles ..........sigh................................
it's okay, squirrelly. Look on the bright side - you have 6 months to study for it again, and you can spend the time to become an expert on shear walls, braced frames, and moment frames.
just registered for *gasp* both the graphic sections of the LARE for the june test date. Now I really have to start preparing for 5 hours of site design and another 5 hours of grading, drainage and stormwater - yipes there goes $700 if I don't pass them both! (my firm pays if I pass)
FYI the LARE registration deadline is April 12th if you are taking the 'regional' exam, ie direct registration through CLARB (not directly through your state). better get your act together... this is also the date that they are supposedly notifying you of the results from the last go round. would be nice if they had a little breathing room between telling you that you passed/failed and having to register for the next tests. such is life.
With the format for the exams changing from multiple choice to fill in the blank imminently, do people recommend trying to crank through all of the currently multiple choice sections and leave the 3 graphic sections for later?
Pacific: the reverse of that would be the better route. If you take the MC tests now in 3.1 but don't take BT and SP until 4.0, you'd end up having to re-take some of the MC tests that you've already passed. BT in particular is having its vignettes dispersed over 4 different tests in the the new version - so you could have to retake as many as 4 MC tests.
If you make sure to pass BT and SP before July of 2009 then you will not end up having to retake any tests that you've already passed, because all the others have a one-to-one correspondence with a test in the new version. You would though be encountering a certain amount of redundancy, because there will now be graphic vignettes in the MC tests. So for example if you pass BT in 3.1 but take all the MC tests in 4.0 then you'll see all the BT vignettes over again in those MC tests.
Also if you pass GS or LF but not both in 3.1 then you'll have to take the combined structures test in 4.0 - which would mean some redundancy of content, though not any more exams than you would have had to take in 3.1...
It's a little complicated, huh?
The fill-in-the-blank and check-all-that-appy questions will make up only 10 to 15% of the total questions in each test. It's not necessarily something that should make you change your whole test schedule around.
just took bd/mm a week ago and already found out on saturday i passed!!!
i thought it was a pretty straight forward exam. i think i over study for most of the exams (this time i read all of allen's materials and methods as well as the kaplan book) but it feels good when everything is clear come exam time and there were definitely ah-ha (so thats how i should do that) moments for my own projects while going through the reading.
i need to take a month off to finish up some work that had been put on the back-burner, at the same time i want to keep on pushing on. only two more (pd, cd) and the cse to go. i think i might study for both at the same time then review one take the exam and then review the other and take that exam.
yeah, this just seems to keep getting more complicated...
Is the change from 3.1 to 4.0 happening for all six of the currently multiple choice exams in July 2009?
Did you mean that after the change to 4.0, there will only be 10-15% multiple-choice questions on those six sections and the rest fill-in the blank?
Where are you getting this information?
Thanks for the advice.
Was not as bad as I thought. I thought I would run out of time.
Did the interior layout in essentially 25 minutes or so, spent the rest of the time tweaking and quadruple checking.
The second part was also rather easy- actually easier than the practice test vignette. But with a hour and a half left I realized I could not get to the elevator on the second floor- I tried not to panic, moved stuff around. I think I did ok. I just kept thinking about a I knew a coworker that put the entry facing the wrong way (west instead of the mandated east) and he still managed to rearrange evrything and pass.
well that pisses me off. no NCARB designation for me, fuck em.
as for me; i am studying for GS and LF, got Thaddeus, Kaplan, Archiflash and areforum stuff. yet i am still having a tough time getting into this, although i suspect as the date draws closer i will "get into it", but anyone got tips for me on these last two??
Sorry, Stourley, it's been long ago enough (and/or I've blocked it from my memory) that I can't be much help. Plus I failed one of those two - I think it was GS - and had to take it over.
I do recall that there were relatively few questions that actually involved doing calculations, and on greater than 50% of those I never came up with a numerical answer that matched any of the multiple choice options, ha! SO obviously my math was wrong. But I did still pass, eventually.
My recollection (fuzzy) is that many of the questions are common sense responses to structural issues. Like in a building 4 stories tall on a midwestern plain wind load is going to be more significant than earthquake resistance, for example. But I imagine all your study guides are giving you sample questions, right?
Stourley....
Just recently (last month) took LF, and it was hellish. I gotta say I have most of the materials you have, and felt very confident (passing my mock exams at better than 90%) and when I took the exam I was flabbergasted. Basically the language that was used was enough to really anger me, but then I took a deep breath and tried to knock it out.
In hind sight, I have to say I concentrated too much on the calcs (memorized all the needed formulas and jotted them down as soon as I sat down for the exam).
needless to say, I did not pass the exam. Furthermore, I was correct in my assessment that, whilst there were plenty of calc questions, the "theory" is more important. Hence, my advice is, really really know your "theory" stuff - of the GS and LF vs the calculation stuff.
That's my philosophy and I am going to use that for my next exam GS.
Best wishes.....and to me as well.....I will really need it!!
i failed gs once as well. i concur with lb.
there was 1 or 2 truss question but they didn't required calculation. they make a big deal in study books about trusses but in the exam they don't (at least they didn't in my exams).
for calculating beams and such there are the basic formulas included in the reference section of the exam. remember which formula to apply to which calc.
there were a 2-3 questions about tributary areas and some simple calcs.
soil types, retaining walls, a wood beam calc, wood post calc, steel beam expansion calc, identify a metal connector or two, identify a moment diagram or two, calculate a point load, calc uniform load, stress calculation.
most of calculation questions are no more than 2 formula deep or less.
i don't know. like id a pile method of foundation, continius footing condition.
real basic stuff. if there was a calculation that seemed long effort, read it again and you'll find the answer without involving any numbers.
lf was relatively easier with identifying cracks, ideal building grouping, shear wall identification and basic calc., wind forces and what they do to a building elevation and roof lift up situation (think of airplane wings)
get familiar with the terminology and (it worked for me) solve the same problems over and over and change the numbers to see what effects what.
since my first ever license renewal date is approaching, i feel a little sophmoric when the subject comes up.
i took structural exams early in the game thinking if i fail, i would be right on schedule after taking other exams and probably know more about what to expect second time around, and for gs, it worked exactly like that.
if i remember more i'll let you know betaman.
Your ARE and LARE One Stop Shop
wait wait, DUBK what is division one?? I'm no a little lost and concerned, cause I am taking mine and (god willing) will finish before they do this "change over".
oh crap!!!!!!!
I think it means that you have to pass at least one of the tests under ARE 3.1 before May 2008 in order to keep testing under the 3.1 system. If not, you have to start using the 4.0 system as of next summer. The 3.1 system will be phased out by Summer 2009. So hopefully everyone can finish them in a year, if they haven't by then....
hmmm ok well I guess i am on teh 3.1 system then
thanks for the info DubK....Im wondering why I havent gotten any emails on this? strange!
WonderK what else can you tell us? Anything more about the 7 exams vs. nine?
'nother registration exam question-
when doing pro bono work, do you typically draw up a written contract with the beneficiary of your design expertise and generosity? or are verbal contracts enough?
are there ways to limit liability in pro bono work?
are there standard contract conditions specific to donating your time?
(didn't want to start a new thread for this question...)
The information came out in a PDF bulletin that was sent to me via listserve. I tend to squat on a lot of listserves, so I was lucky to get it myself, since I'm not even an associate AIA member. It's like 6 pages though, so rather than copying it or trying to post it somewhere (I don't even know how I would do that), if you want to email me, I'd be happy to send it to you.
DCA,
mechanical & electrical layout had me worried, and that's one of the ones that they indicated I needed work on, along with structural layout and building section.
I felt I aced the section, but I'm thinking I missed a rated partition somewhere since that's an automatic fail. On the structural layout, don't know, must have neglected to support something properly.
I was really scared about the stair layout. I had finished everything early! 1 hr left after the first three problems and I had 1.5 hrs left to do the stair, since I saved it for last, and couldn't get anything until I had 20 min left.
I suggest do the ones your confident on first so you can get the most time for the troublesome ones.
For the handrails, just make them touch and use 2" rectangles instead of circles, they're easier to see and manipulate.
^ for clearance at handrails.
Well, I took BT this morning. I had just enough time to complete all of the vignettes, and I even caught a few errors/omissions during my final check of each vignette. On one of the vignettes, I got confused about the directions, changed my entire solution, realized that it would lead to a fatal error, then changed everything back.
I'm banking on Professor Dorf's comments in his Solutions book that it's possible to fail a vignette yet still pass the exam.
I did not eat breakfast (I never do. I told myself, "This is just like at work when you don't get a chance to eat lunch until 2 or 3 in the afternoon because you're busy. You'll be fine.") That was a mistake. The room was also warmer than usual, which made me even more uncomfortable.
I also experienced an odd occurrence during my 15 minute break; I'm going to write an entry in Thread Central about it...
Site Planning is next Saturday.
Happy Early Daylight Savings.
If you created a Microsoft Outlook appointment for a previously scheduled ARE exam for a future date, I urge you to check the time. My 13:00 hrs exam time got bumped down to 14:00 hrs. (Maybe I should have run those updates...)
OK, I'm freaking about my test tomorrow regarding which version of specification divisions will be utilized!!!
will it be the familiar 16-division 1995 Masterspec verision cited in all the study material I've used or the 2004 41 sectionsverson??? I'm going to have nightmares about about choosing between division 32-site improvements or the old fangled division 2 - which is now existing conditions!!!!
anybody know what is being tested on the LARE or the ARE these days???
It's still the 16-section format, because all of the multiple choice tests except for the new version of ME (which doesn't seem to have been released yet even though it was due 2 weeks ago) were all developed in 2003 and released in early 2004, which was before the CSI divisions switched to the new system.
But also: you won't encounter more than 1 or 2 CSI questions per division, at most, and they'll be easy - in the sense that if you read the spines of some Sweets catalogs to see what's generally in each major division you'll know all the answers.
And: for the most part architectural elements stay in the same division whether you're in the 16-part system or the 40-part system.
Don't worry about it.
phew!!!! thanks a $$$ Formerlyunknown...
(just wanted to add for Beta's sake - that was not a whine!)
Good luck, barry. Which exam are you taking? Materials & Methods?
You probably already know enough to answer the specification division questions.
The ARE Guidelines list Environmental Issues as one of the content areas; this is the area in which I felt weakest during the exam.
LARE section A- legal and administrative aspects of practice, covers specs, zoning, real estate/environmental law, liens, contracts, ethics, construction admin, corporate structure, project delivery methods, and a few other random subjects that overlap with M&M, PD, CD&S...
this morning I'm chillin before taking one last practice exam, take a walk through the slush of my neighborhood, and then off to prometrics for a 2pm cubicle date!
*sigh* didn't sleep well, but wasn't kept awake by the exam, I was mostly thinking about work. Good thing I'm not there this morning.
good luck. 50% passing is taking...
that was easy! I definitely over studied- now I see why they offer three exams in two days for the LARE! Why there were sooo many questions on post-occupancy studies I have no clue (7 out of 70!)
anyone here knows enough about epc (emerging professional companion) program to answer this question.
can someone use epc exclusively to obtain all of the 235 training units it allows and have that credited to you as part of your idp-ncarb council record.
in other words in a hypothetical situation could you complete the epc courses/ assignments exclusively ie without any traditional idp training units and be eligible to take the are in states that allow one to test after obtaining a min of 235 units.
responses appreciated.
I think you can only get a max of 16 credits off those EPC tests. I was thinking about doing them and then realized the credit you get is minimal, although still worth it.
You also can't use the EPC to fulfill any of the required units in the various categories. You can only use them as the floating elective units above and beyond the requirements of each experience category.
I love having a place such as this where I can share the good news:
I received my Building Planning PASS letter today. Happy Dance Happy Dance :)
Tomorrow is Site Planning...
nice DCA, nice.
Thanks beta! What's left on your radar?
Haven’t been here in a while…thought I’d share my testing experience.
I am a SoCal resident, and became eligible to take the ARE roughly 4 years ago, while my wife was pregnant with our second child. I immediately signed up for the PD (1st on the list, right?). Being the relatively good test taker I am, I decided not to study , although I did purchase and review the Archiflash cards. Well, that proved to be an ill conceived plan, and the PD test, while not exactly hard, was extremely ambiguous and covered a broad range of topics. The cards had zero relevance to the (PD) test. I realized after that experience that if I was going to pass I would have to put forth some effort.
Fast forward 2 years later (with 2 & 4 year old girls), I begin taking the tests, and for real this time. Having my ego slightly bruised from the first experience, I signed up to take PD (even though I knew I shouldn’t have). My study routine for this test and the others to follow, was 3-4 hours 3 nights a week, and 8 hours on Saturdays, with 3 weeks of studying, and 1 week off with the family before studying for the next.
Well, I passed PD, and the passed each of the remaining sections over the next 9-10 months. Once I received my ARE pass confirmation letter, I signed up for the California Supplemental Exam/ CSE (which is administered 2x a year in SoCal). While studying for the CSE, I applied for and received licenses in CO and AZ (just so I could call myself an Architect…somewhere).
I studied for the CAB with two others who had failed, which proved to be a tremendous help. The CAB was easily the most daunting of all off the tests, and I had heard plenty of horror stories of 60 year old principals in out of state firms who have been unable to pass (you sit before a 3 member panel hiding behind propped up black folders, are asked roughly 30 questions, each with 3-5 parts, some of those have 2 additional sub-parts, and are NOT allowed to use paper or pencil…you can lose track real quick). The CAB questions were fairly easy, but having plenty of real world experience helped. The hard part was stating the “buzz” words they appeared to be looking for (my panel had pretty weak poker faces).
I received my pass letter for the Ca. Supplemental Exam, paid for my license fees, and poof…I am an Architect! It was no easy task, especially in the beginning, and balancing a family life with young children was tough at times, but all in all it proved top be very fruitful.
My advice to test takers:
As some have said, take CD, MM, & PD first. Take the rest of the MC tests. Take the graphics together or closely spaced. Develop of consistent routine and beneficial study location (I HAD to get out my house to soak it up).
My advice to the rebels:
To those of you who simply do not want to deal with this, I guess that’s your prerogative. But when I set out early on in school to become an Architect, I did just that…this test is just a part of that progression. You can make all sorts of justifications, but In California (and most states), you cannot identify yourself as an Architect unless you are currently licensed. Putting the hassle of it all aside, I really enjoyed the process. I approached the situation as an opportunity to learn more about our profession, and I feel I am better for it.
Congrats DCA!
thanks BULA for the advice.
Re: My advice to the rebels by Bula ^^^
Rebels without a cause.
The info on the new ARE 4.0 is on NCARB's website now, along with some clarifications/answers to typical questions.
If I were in the middle of taking these tests again I think these latest changes would prompt me to push forward and finish all of them as quickly as possible - not to push them off until implementation of the new version.
This isn't the first time that there has been a major redesign of the whole test or even that they've come up with a new system that has meant that some candidates are in a position to potentially lose credit for certain already-passed tests.
In general there's a new numbered version of the test every 3 or 4 years, new revisions (i.e. 3.1) once or twice in between that, and huge committee-envisioned revamps, like the one about to happen, every 5 to 10 years.
I do understand that some people have life issues that might make passing all nine tests before July of 2009 difficult, so they might not want to start right now. But for most people this should be enough time - even enough time to fail a few divisions and wait through the 6-month wait to re-take more than once.
Plus, every time they roll out some major change they end up with a blackout period of weeks to months ahead of time, and many of the first takers of the new version experience computer glitches and test-center operation problems, and in some instances there have been huge delays with scoring of the new version (up to 4+ months in spring of 2004) - though the Faq on NCARB's site says there shouldn't be a scoring delay this time...
It seems to me it should be an impetus for many to push forward, not wait.
I'd hurry up and finish too, if I was still taking these.
A big reason for me would be that all the available study materials and information is about the current version. If you start testing at the beginning of 4.0 then you'll be a guinea pig. You won't have all the advice and experience of the people who came before you to fall back on.
For me the ARE Forum and the old PPI forum that came before it were both great sources of information on what to expect and of reassurance from people who made the same mistakes as I did on their tests. I would much rather squeeze in all the tests before summer 2009 and have that wealth of knowledge to pull from than be a trailblazer for the new version.
Even Prof. Dorf - who is the closest thing we have to inside information because he used to work for NCARB developing and scoring tests - has said he has difficulty getting answers to his questions to NCARB these days. So once those new formats and new vignettes start there's not going to be much to go on other than NCARB's own study materials, which are some of the least effective sources.
I Passed MM, which is a HUGE accomplishment for me, considering 90% of what I studied was not on the exam, 80% of what was on the exam wasn't in any of the study materials, and I worked the whole weekend that I was supposed to cram for the exam so I had only lighty covered most points. On to CD.
congrats Here's your sign;
I on the other hand am now feeling some dejection because Im frustrated that it takes NCARB so effing long to figure out scores and send out results. I mean what happened to technology and automation, and just getting the stuff out?
besides that, I am not all to eager to try to check the prometric site and see whether or not I have to retake the damn thing.
I guess my efforts are better placed on trying to study for the next effing hard one....Gen Structures.
congratulations, here's your sign! (I walked out of MM thinking, "Man, I'm gonna have to get LEED certified before I'll be able to pass THIS exam." By some miracle, I passed...)
squirrelly: GS is next for me, too. April 21st. I'm fortunate to have really good structural engineers on my current project who don't mind 'splaining things to me if I ask. But, I still have a lot of studying to do.
the LEED accreditation test isn't that difficult. it's all about administration, not about how to design or calculate the credits.
well the little white envelope showed up yesterday in the post, and I was afraid to open it because I felt it may spell out what I had been feeling.....
and as it turns out, NOT GOOD NEWS. (didn't pass LF)
I find myself more depressed this morning because of it. I guess it also doesn't help that it's gray and dark outside in an otherwise bright and sunny Los Angeles ..........sigh................................
it's okay, squirrelly. Look on the bright side - you have 6 months to study for it again, and you can spend the time to become an expert on shear walls, braced frames, and moment frames.
thanks DCA....for the words of encouragement. I think like all things, this too will pass, and it has.
so for now, I am concentrating on bucking up for GS and just continue the flow, and hopefully it wont make me question my intelligence.
just registered for *gasp* both the graphic sections of the LARE for the june test date. Now I really have to start preparing for 5 hours of site design and another 5 hours of grading, drainage and stormwater - yipes there goes $700 if I don't pass them both! (my firm pays if I pass)
FYI the LARE registration deadline is April 12th if you are taking the 'regional' exam, ie direct registration through CLARB (not directly through your state). better get your act together... this is also the date that they are supposedly notifying you of the results from the last go round. would be nice if they had a little breathing room between telling you that you passed/failed and having to register for the next tests. such is life.
With the format for the exams changing from multiple choice to fill in the blank imminently, do people recommend trying to crank through all of the currently multiple choice sections and leave the 3 graphic sections for later?
Thanks.
Pacific: the reverse of that would be the better route. If you take the MC tests now in 3.1 but don't take BT and SP until 4.0, you'd end up having to re-take some of the MC tests that you've already passed. BT in particular is having its vignettes dispersed over 4 different tests in the the new version - so you could have to retake as many as 4 MC tests.
If you make sure to pass BT and SP before July of 2009 then you will not end up having to retake any tests that you've already passed, because all the others have a one-to-one correspondence with a test in the new version. You would though be encountering a certain amount of redundancy, because there will now be graphic vignettes in the MC tests. So for example if you pass BT in 3.1 but take all the MC tests in 4.0 then you'll see all the BT vignettes over again in those MC tests.
Also if you pass GS or LF but not both in 3.1 then you'll have to take the combined structures test in 4.0 - which would mean some redundancy of content, though not any more exams than you would have had to take in 3.1...
It's a little complicated, huh?
The fill-in-the-blank and check-all-that-appy questions will make up only 10 to 15% of the total questions in each test. It's not necessarily something that should make you change your whole test schedule around.
just took bd/mm a week ago and already found out on saturday i passed!!!
i thought it was a pretty straight forward exam. i think i over study for most of the exams (this time i read all of allen's materials and methods as well as the kaplan book) but it feels good when everything is clear come exam time and there were definitely ah-ha (so thats how i should do that) moments for my own projects while going through the reading.
i need to take a month off to finish up some work that had been put on the back-burner, at the same time i want to keep on pushing on. only two more (pd, cd) and the cse to go. i think i might study for both at the same time then review one take the exam and then review the other and take that exam.
congrats spaceghost!
Im on to GS and then to CD by the end of the year, maybe before summer begins! Now that would be good!!
Formerlyunknown,
yeah, this just seems to keep getting more complicated...
Is the change from 3.1 to 4.0 happening for all six of the currently multiple choice exams in July 2009?
Did you mean that after the change to 4.0, there will only be 10-15% multiple-choice questions on those six sections and the rest fill-in the blank?
Where are you getting this information?
Thanks for the advice.
just reporting in:
took the building design division on friday.
Was not as bad as I thought. I thought I would run out of time.
Did the interior layout in essentially 25 minutes or so, spent the rest of the time tweaking and quadruple checking.
The second part was also rather easy- actually easier than the practice test vignette. But with a hour and a half left I realized I could not get to the elevator on the second floor- I tried not to panic, moved stuff around. I think I did ok. I just kept thinking about a I knew a coworker that put the entry facing the wrong way (west instead of the mandated east) and he still managed to rearrange evrything and pass.
The links posted further up were really helpful.
I got my fingers crossed.
I am scheduling building technology next.
So if things are not tough enough, let's make it even more difficult ...
HEY IDP sufferer- read the link that emaze just posted ^^^^
and then call your state board to protest this mean spirited and excessively harsh penalty that NCARB is thinking about!
let's post our comments here: in archinect news
well that pisses me off. no NCARB designation for me, fuck em.
as for me; i am studying for GS and LF, got Thaddeus, Kaplan, Archiflash and areforum stuff. yet i am still having a tough time getting into this, although i suspect as the date draws closer i will "get into it", but anyone got tips for me on these last two??
anyone got any advice for structures both GS and LF?
secrets for solving trusses?
are trusses on the exam?
how difficult were the calcs?
anything?
beuhler?
Sorry, Stourley, it's been long ago enough (and/or I've blocked it from my memory) that I can't be much help. Plus I failed one of those two - I think it was GS - and had to take it over.
I do recall that there were relatively few questions that actually involved doing calculations, and on greater than 50% of those I never came up with a numerical answer that matched any of the multiple choice options, ha! SO obviously my math was wrong. But I did still pass, eventually.
My recollection (fuzzy) is that many of the questions are common sense responses to structural issues. Like in a building 4 stories tall on a midwestern plain wind load is going to be more significant than earthquake resistance, for example. But I imagine all your study guides are giving you sample questions, right?
thanks lib, and oh btw a belated 40th, i'm catching up to you....
Stourley....
Just recently (last month) took LF, and it was hellish. I gotta say I have most of the materials you have, and felt very confident (passing my mock exams at better than 90%) and when I took the exam I was flabbergasted. Basically the language that was used was enough to really anger me, but then I took a deep breath and tried to knock it out.
In hind sight, I have to say I concentrated too much on the calcs (memorized all the needed formulas and jotted them down as soon as I sat down for the exam).
needless to say, I did not pass the exam. Furthermore, I was correct in my assessment that, whilst there were plenty of calc questions, the "theory" is more important. Hence, my advice is, really really know your "theory" stuff - of the GS and LF vs the calculation stuff.
That's my philosophy and I am going to use that for my next exam GS.
Best wishes.....and to me as well.....I will really need it!!
i failed gs once as well. i concur with lb.
there was 1 or 2 truss question but they didn't required calculation. they make a big deal in study books about trusses but in the exam they don't (at least they didn't in my exams).
for calculating beams and such there are the basic formulas included in the reference section of the exam. remember which formula to apply to which calc.
there were a 2-3 questions about tributary areas and some simple calcs.
soil types, retaining walls, a wood beam calc, wood post calc, steel beam expansion calc, identify a metal connector or two, identify a moment diagram or two, calculate a point load, calc uniform load, stress calculation.
most of calculation questions are no more than 2 formula deep or less.
i don't know. like id a pile method of foundation, continius footing condition.
real basic stuff. if there was a calculation that seemed long effort, read it again and you'll find the answer without involving any numbers.
lf was relatively easier with identifying cracks, ideal building grouping, shear wall identification and basic calc., wind forces and what they do to a building elevation and roof lift up situation (think of airplane wings)
get familiar with the terminology and (it worked for me) solve the same problems over and over and change the numbers to see what effects what.
since my first ever license renewal date is approaching, i feel a little sophmoric when the subject comes up.
i took structural exams early in the game thinking if i fail, i would be right on schedule after taking other exams and probably know more about what to expect second time around, and for gs, it worked exactly like that.
if i remember more i'll let you know betaman.
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