OK legions of forum goers… here’s my soul; do your worst.
About six years ago I had two big epiphanies.
My future wife and I were searching for what was to be our future home, and I quickly began to realize (epiphany #1) pretty much all homes in my area are uninspiring colonial clones of one another and look like complete dog shit.
About the same time I found my graduate program simply wasn’t fulfilling and so I dropped out. It took me a few years later to figure out exactly what was missing. It lacked any semblance of creativity, and (epiphany #2) I began to believe that perhaps my creative talents might just be the best ones I have to offer.
This all set into motion a whole variety of things. I opened a fairly lucrative small business quickly after exiting school, promising myself it would be temporary. The house search culminated into our getting a pretty nice loft with pretty things like “exposed brick” and “storefront glazing.” And the spiral out of grad school landed me upon a different worldview; I now value simplicity, clean lines, and thoughtful design.
And I have become an asshole. I now see most objects and buildings around me as being uninspired, shitty, and due to someone’s laziness. I’m not necessary a negative person but, damn, it certainly feels like there’s just a lot of shitty garbage everywhere I look. My wife makes fun of me because certain chairs now have “names,” as so do certain tables. I have become disillusioned with the line of work I occupy and grown to resent my work.
So the obvious reveal here is that I have become obsessed with design and architecture. I always told myself the business was temporary, and recently my wife got a new job (something really stable with decent pay). In a few more years I will likely have the house paid and our second child’s college funded. That day arrives before I’m 40 and when it does I’m jumping ship and applying to architecture school.
I feel in my bones architecture is what I should be doing every day. I view the education as necessary to train me not only how to draw CAD or meet code but rather creatively solve problems. And thus I envision the training as not just enabling students to design a building, but also furniture, objects, and work flows. It’s as if it’s a specialized art degree that might say here’s the world we know, now analyze it from a different angle and come up with a solution. I am an idealist. And if I had to pick a dream right now… I’d like to create affordable houses that drive people to live different and better lives.
So I started researching the profession. Spoke to an architect who recently closed his/her business and received some profound advice.
Then I hit the net. There are entire web sites devoted to “so you want to be an architect!” People have written books (!!) on this shit. Youtube videos… online classes about simply wanting to be an architect… I’m starting to feel like a chump, like this may just be a ponzi scheme. Accept the students, charge up tuition bills, grow an army of indentured servants, and keep the machine running. Except the universities are not Kaplan or other for-profit joints but rather some serious named institutions.
And then I found these forums. New words added to my lexicon: CAD monkey, starchitect, and Bjarke.
My previous academic training and recent business experience has desensitized me 14 hours work days or difficult studies. Working 50 hours a week isn’t a problem if I can stack my hours. 60 now and then is somewhat do-able… But I have young children and cannot return to 80-90 hour work weeks again. I’m used to hustling up my own business (“you eat what you kill” is mantra) and I fear no multi choice exam. I’m pretty confident I can TA in grad school to get free tuition.
If you’ve read this far you have my profound gratitude. Apologies for the diatribe. I’ll conclude now.
(1) Any architects out there who can affirm if I’m understanding this profession correctly, or better yet if I’m missing something here? Is my outlook just incongruent with this profession?
(2) I’m not one to usually fear failure, but fuck tonight I fear that if my creative gifts are my best to offer what happens in school if/when they’re not up to snuff.
When in doubt - don't - you can't have any doubts in architecture - or you will fail - just like the Marines - a marine that has doubts gets his head blown off - got it?
From what you said, I'd say find a way to keep making money and possibly look into starting business opportunities / investing. But in a way that also taps into your new interests. You can definitely take some classes and read more about design. Get some studio time in.
But if you just want to design stuff and work on residential stuff, I'd say you should be doing that. Learning that directly...etc. Why go through the whole intensive process and get a degree, do internships, take tests for years making average pay, when you're already a successful business owner? Especially since there's a lot you can do without a license. You have money and a business. That's better than any license.
The whole road to becoming an architect is long and if you're into it, go for it. But the salary along the way and the end result isn't incredibly lucrative. Sounds like you're already doing well financially. I think you'd do better to figure out why you''re unhappy and work on that. Maybe scale back at work. Or focus on hobbies. Hire out some tasks.
"And I have become an asshole. I now see most objects and buildings around me as being uninspired, shitty, and due to someone’s laziness. I’m not necessary a negative person but, damn, it certainly feels like there’s just a lot of shitty garbage everywhere I look."
It's fine to feel that way sometimes, but as a new investor? / architect. You'll be directly involved with and contributing to that garbage.You have to be happy working in it. With people. Collaborating. Making the best of tough / stupid situations. Really clean / beautiful design often isn't a thing. As architects you have to compromise and work within budgets, especially in affordable housing. There are still moments where you get things right. But that clean storefront on your loft is really expensive compared to double hung windows. There's only enough money for x or y. And z gets pulled.
If your clients are wealthy people that are open and supportive, that's fantastic (and rare.) If you are your own client, then do what you want, cause it's your $. But I'd say definitely get outside eyes on it for perspective too. Hope that gives a little bit of an idea.
"(2) I’m not one to usually fear failure, but fuck tonight I fear that if my creative gifts are my best to offer what happens in school if/when they’re not up to snuff."
Creativity is a process that you engage in. It's a learning experience where you're doing stuff, researching, writing, drawing...etc. Overtime you get better at it. It's not this innate thing that you have or don't have. If you fail at one task, you learn why you failed and take that with you.
I'd be more afraid that you get in and find that you just don't like it. Happens a lot. But it's a big field and there are a lot of options. And being older and having money / entrepreneurial skills should help a lot.
Typically architects design what they're paid to design, which is not affordale housing. We do multifamily, but if it's supposed to be affordable multifamily, then the design has focus on being affordable.
it takes about 5 or 6 years of expensive school, then an internship that can be 3 to 5 years, then the tests before you get a license.
what's your business? No room for creativity there? Otherwise get an Eames lounge chair and bask in radiance of great design.
There is little creativity left in architecture, at least in the romantic sense. Today, creativity is about trying to complete projects with insane deadlines, shrinking budgets, asshole developers, over reaching codes set in place to protect humans from themselves...
Have you thought of expressing your creativity/design sense elsewhere? I am all for going through the process, school, interning, etc. but is all of that necessary to fulfill what you are looking for? If you go this route you may end up hating the one thing that you've always wanted, just due to all the day to day bs you have to put up with, similar to any other job.
Personally, I would recommend taking a furniture design class and then maybe some architectural theory classes. If design is what you are into then I think you should look at it from a larger sense, not just architecture. You are right in that design can be used to creatively solve problems, but this can be applied to many things, maybe even the job you are in currently? Or not. Take a furniture/woodworking class, there's plenty of design there without all the red lines and regulations of today's architecture, imo.
It just seems like a big leap to make with such a comfortable life already set up. But I can understand the desire. A note about TAing, it may be hard to TA if you have no experience already in architecture, like an undergraduate degree, at least for the first little bit.
I have 30 years in this profession, registered for 25. When I started out, I had a couple of distinct advantages. First, my parents paid for my college education - all of it. Second, I was single when I took my exams, and thus had the time to knock it out without having family distractions. A starting architect makes about the same money as a school teacher. After 10 years, and if you're good at what you do, you might hit as much as 100k as a project manager. If you never become licensed, and a lot of people on these forums like to complain about the considerable cost to do so and tell you to blow it off, you can discount your future earnings by, oh, probably at least 35%. Because you'll never make PM at the big firms that pay the bigger salaries - they only hire registered archs for those positions. Do the math on the student loans, future earning potential, downtime due to layoffs (figure six months per 8 years or so), and then ask yourself if it's the right career for yourself and your family. If you choose architecture, I wish you all the best - sincerely. And if you don't decide to go into it, find another outlet for your creativity and don't look back.
I just re-read your post. It sounds like you are on your way to being financially secure, and you have an entrepreneurial bent. And you are older. So you would invest the 5+ years to get the professional degree, and the two or three additional years (since IDP just changed) to get licensed. At that point, at the earliest opportunity that you feel you capable doing so, start your own firm, or partner with someone else and start one. Since you don't have to be the primary source of income or stability for your family, you have the luxury of taking the financial risk. You will need to be licensed to do this because you need a license to create and stamp drawings for permit, one of the basic services of a firm, and for other reasons. You then have the freedom to pursue your career how you want, instead of slogging it out in some big firm for a paycheck.
ducduc, you'll be a fine architect. You've got the right attitude. I'm already entertained by your post, and you've already eclipsed our resident do-nothing, Rikki Ballskid.
Wow, where to begin. Serves me right for waiting 24 hours before returning to my desk. Many thanks for the feedback folks. To anyone else reading this please do chime in as I’m all ears.
@jp22 “You'll be directly involved with and contributing to that garbage.” @curtkram “architects design what they're paid to design… if it's supposed to be affordable multifamily, then the design has focus on being affordable.”
Yeah, I struggle with this one. In one sense, I’m already accustomed to some really awful, awful clients and have regrets about by current work in that I feel like I contribute to the wealth gap in this country. So on one hand it can’t get worse than where I am now. On the other hand, it seems ludicrous to me that beautiful or thoughtfully designed has to be expensive. Having no training or experience, I can make bold and ignorant statements like this. But then again, I am an idealist and do believe there has to be another way. I would love nothing more than to help find it.
I used to tell myself just a few more years at the business, catch a big break, nest a pile of cash, and then leverage it toward designing your own houses later when you become an architect. Business is ok and I’m not complaining but the big breaks haven’t arrived yet and I’m only getting older and filled with a greater sense of regret.
“Otherwise get an Eames lounge chair and bask in radiance of great design.” The trend over the last decade of my life has been to own much less stuff, with the few items I have acquired all radiating great design. It’s nice and I’m grateful yet its constantly inspiring me to go create something of my own. Also I prefer the aluminum group.
@lacalr “Personally, I would recommend taking a furniture design class and then maybe some architectural theory classes” I’m fortunate to have a pretty outstanding community college in my area, and this has proven to be my salvation for the past 4-5 years. I’m only a welding course away from having earned a cert as a professional motorcycle mechanic (my hobby). I start my first cabinetry class in September, which will likely be 1 of 4. And I’m considering construction classes and chasing a contractor’s license before I begin architecture school. It’s entirely possible that I might finish the arch education and take it in a different direction and open up shop and build furniture. But even if this is the case (and I’m not sure it is), doesn’t that still reinforce the need for the training? It seems to me like the academics not only prepare students for solving problems with buildings but all kinds of creative problems as well. Or am I off on this? And in regards to furniture, it just seems to me like arch and furniture go together like hand in glove. Ditto for light fixtures as well. Wouldn’t a furniture or light designer just be some sort of hack without really understanding flow and purpose of the structures within which their creations exist? Again if I’m being naive and preachy please just tell it like it is.
Also I’d TA in science at the university so all set there.
@tex-arch I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be at a big firm. Maybe that’d preclude me from every doing some skyscraper or museum of modern art in Dubai, but yeah my goal would be something with an ownership stake. Your second post is pretty much my exact plan, except I’m considering a masters designed for people with an non-arch undergad which I think takes only 3-4 years.
@betadine sutures Based on your handle I’m thinking you may get me more than most. There’s really just no way the hours of arch can eclipse surgery. Medicine and then later running a business ruined my sense of work/life balance. I’m older now and have kids, but I can’t comprehend 9 to 5. I just never want to go back to 70-80 hrs a week again, let alone 100 hour madness.
Also, would it be crazy for me as a grown man to ask someone to shadow them at their job? I somehow feel like shadowing is for 17 year olds and people may not take me seriously were I to ask.
First, I don't know any owners of their own firms who put in a standard 40-hour week. You're a small business owner plus being an architect.
Second, clients are clients. Yes, they get better the farther up the design food chain you are, but no matter what, they control the money and thus the decisions. Ask any "starchitect" about the compromises he's had to make and I'm sure you'll get an earful. Still, overall most of us are proud of our work as architects, even if we are not all on the covers of magazines.
Since a few have asked, I currently own a small test prep business.
"Have you thought about becoming a developer?"
Yeah I have, but is that not that same as thinking about becoming rich? It seems like becoming a developer isn't about education or training, but really about how much money you (or your friend or your family) have. Once again, maybe I'm being naive but to have the cash to see it through - develop, design, and build... to me that would perfect. As business philosophy goes I'm a strong advocate for vertical integration.
Jul 9, 16 2:43 pm ·
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I second Tex_arch. Running a business as a sole-proprietor (especially a sole-practitioner business), you will be typically spending 60+ hours a week (which can be spread over 7 days) when you have projects and have to go to city meeting representing your client as their design professional, meeting the clients, designing their project, managing the business and business accounting, don't forget the tax preparation, etc. When you have no employees or business partners, you're on your own because you have no one to divide the labor.
As for ducducgoose, I might suggest working for a arch firm that does healthcare projects because it capitalizes on his medical field background. Use that knowledge to design spaces in hospitals as an avenue. That is one area that has been typically stable in the architecture field.
Doctors turn architects tends to work in architecture firms that do healthcare projects due to the fact that they have that inside knowledge of healthcare clients.
Jul 9, 16 2:49 pm ·
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ducducgoose,
Some people here might help you understand about how developers work. There are some good posts by Carrera on this forum that can be useful in learning how it works.
I would look into a residential or light commercial design-build business. Obviously, you'll need to learn more regarding contracting and construction, but it sounds like you're on your way at the community college. Plus, from a general contracting standpoint, if you choose reputable and experienced subcontractors, you'll learn from them quickly.
On the architectural side of things, if the projects are mostly interior and non-structural, you can get by without a stamp. When you get to areas requiring a stamp, you can engage an architect and partner up by the project. If you are finding the work, you can act like a developer, and lead the design. Ironically, many clients will contact a builder before an architect. Especially for the smaller projects. This format also creates a lot of freedom to design the details and to pick the finishes. Ideally, you will work with clients. However, it's not a stretch to flip houses once you're established.
The benefit of this type of business is you don't have go through the intensive architectural education and internship. Yet, you can still have a lot of freedom designing. And if you want to go into furniture design, you'll be amazed at the opportunities that arise once you're in the middle of a project.
Here is an analogy/allegory of current architecture practice:
Imagine you (the client) are hungry and you want a meal at a restaurant - here is how the restaurant experience would work if run in the same way as architecture practice.
Firstly, finding the restaurant would be difficult (probably down an alley way or above a block of shops), but when you did it would look good inside. The staff would be young and good looking, and the chef would be an older white male. You have heard amazing things about this place through social media, but most of that is from friends of the owner, and one of the staff members who runs the Instagram account.
There wouldn't be a menu of course, but there would be amazing photos of previous meals that have been produced that may inform you as to what to expect. None of the photos would have prices.
To order, the wait staff would ask you what you felt like. They would then comment on that as to its appropriateness and make suggestions for improvements or steer you towards a complete other dish.
If they had not produced a meal or cuisine that you suggested, they would still say that they could do it (we normally do Greek, but sure Thai is doable!).
After you had finalised an order, the wait staff would not be able to give you a clear idea of when it would be ready or how much it would cost. Assuming you had a dining partner, they would also face the same uncertainty. But the wine would be delicious.
The reason that they cant give you an idea of how much or when, is that there is actually no food kept in the kitchen, no prep work and no recipes. Oh, there might be some ideas for these things, and the photos of previous meals of course, but by and large, not much else.
The wait staff would inform the chef of the basic idea of the meal, and the chef would change it to suit what he thought was best for you. At this point, a basic ingredient list would be made, and the youngest, cheapest and least experienced member of staff would be sent to the supermarket to procure the items - there is no wholesale delivery and no fridges or freezers in the kitchen.
Upon arrival, the wait staff might confirm the order back to you at which point things have changed - you will have no choice on this. To assist you, they bring out a collage of photos of previous dishes they have made to represent sorta what you might get.
You will be asked to pay a sum now for the meal, with the remainder to be paid back at some point. This balance will be unknown.
In the meantime, the chef has advanced his thinking of what your meal should be, but doesn't update you. The ingredients he now has are now not entirely appropriate for this new dish, perhaps some of them can be used, The rest are put in the bin. The young staff member goes to the supermarket again for the revised ingredients for the revised recipe - you pay for the wastage.
The soundtrack of the restaurant is fantastic though.
The chef now deems that the dish actually requires a different type of oven than the one he has, and he doesn't really have the skills for. He can either inform you of this and choose a methodology for cooking using his own machinery, or rely on someone else's machinery and learn on the job - the restaurant next door for example. He pops next door to use their machine, but it takes longer (they are using it) and they charge him to use it - he doesn't really execute it that well.
Whilst this is going on, he isn't really focusing because there are other diners, with other dishes that he has to invent on the spot using the same process.
By the time he finishes and assembles the meal - which looks fantastic but is hours late - it arrives to you cold and bearing no resemblance to what you ordered. In terms of nutritional value, there is no information, and things have been put on the plate to make it look good but cant actually be eaten, and some of the actual food is raw. No is sure if this is a main or dessert, or both. It could be breakfast considering the time taken to deliver.
But, before you can eat, you have to pay for it. It is now 4x the cost that you thought it might have been based on previous conversations. Your appetite is gone. You are frustrated, angry and you are made to feel awkward. You pay the price but ask for a doggy bag to take the meal away as you cant stand being there. On hearing the commotion, the chef comes out and asks why you are so upset, but offers no refund or recompense.
On your way out, you put the food in the bin and go to McDonald's and cry into your thick shake.
TL:DR: architects solve rich peoples problems - anything else is too hard. If you really want to work in architecture, think about how to radically change it because architects are apparently incapable of doing so.
The reason that they cant give you an idea of how much or when, is that there is actually no food kept in the kitchen, no prep work and no recipes.
that's not right. the reason it's hard to estimate a timetable is because invariably the client will change the recipe while watching it being prepared. when they say 'can you uncook the onion a little,' the architect is in a tough spot. experience tells us that charging additional services for the additional time and expense that go along with redoing the meal makes the client mad because they feel nickel and dimed.
also, much prep work in the kitchen. the design may not be copy/paste, but the details are.
that's not right. the reason it's hard to estimate a timetable is because invariably the client will change the recipe while watching it being prepared
Yep, its the clients fault ;)
Jul 12, 16 9:39 pm ·
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Just another guy thinking about becoming an architect
OK legions of forum goers… here’s my soul; do your worst.
About six years ago I had two big epiphanies.
My future wife and I were searching for what was to be our future home, and I quickly began to realize (epiphany #1) pretty much all homes in my area are uninspiring colonial clones of one another and look like complete dog shit.
About the same time I found my graduate program simply wasn’t fulfilling and so I dropped out. It took me a few years later to figure out exactly what was missing. It lacked any semblance of creativity, and (epiphany #2) I began to believe that perhaps my creative talents might just be the best ones I have to offer.
This all set into motion a whole variety of things. I opened a fairly lucrative small business quickly after exiting school, promising myself it would be temporary. The house search culminated into our getting a pretty nice loft with pretty things like “exposed brick” and “storefront glazing.” And the spiral out of grad school landed me upon a different worldview; I now value simplicity, clean lines, and thoughtful design.
And I have become an asshole. I now see most objects and buildings around me as being uninspired, shitty, and due to someone’s laziness. I’m not necessary a negative person but, damn, it certainly feels like there’s just a lot of shitty garbage everywhere I look. My wife makes fun of me because certain chairs now have “names,” as so do certain tables. I have become disillusioned with the line of work I occupy and grown to resent my work.
So the obvious reveal here is that I have become obsessed with design and architecture. I always told myself the business was temporary, and recently my wife got a new job (something really stable with decent pay). In a few more years I will likely have the house paid and our second child’s college funded. That day arrives before I’m 40 and when it does I’m jumping ship and applying to architecture school.
I feel in my bones architecture is what I should be doing every day. I view the education as necessary to train me not only how to draw CAD or meet code but rather creatively solve problems. And thus I envision the training as not just enabling students to design a building, but also furniture, objects, and work flows. It’s as if it’s a specialized art degree that might say here’s the world we know, now analyze it from a different angle and come up with a solution. I am an idealist. And if I had to pick a dream right now… I’d like to create affordable houses that drive people to live different and better lives.
So I started researching the profession. Spoke to an architect who recently closed his/her business and received some profound advice.
Then I hit the net. There are entire web sites devoted to “so you want to be an architect!” People have written books (!!) on this shit. Youtube videos… online classes about simply wanting to be an architect… I’m starting to feel like a chump, like this may just be a ponzi scheme. Accept the students, charge up tuition bills, grow an army of indentured servants, and keep the machine running. Except the universities are not Kaplan or other for-profit joints but rather some serious named institutions.
And then I found these forums. New words added to my lexicon: CAD monkey, starchitect, and Bjarke.
My previous academic training and recent business experience has desensitized me 14 hours work days or difficult studies. Working 50 hours a week isn’t a problem if I can stack my hours. 60 now and then is somewhat do-able… But I have young children and cannot return to 80-90 hour work weeks again. I’m used to hustling up my own business (“you eat what you kill” is mantra) and I fear no multi choice exam. I’m pretty confident I can TA in grad school to get free tuition.
If you’ve read this far you have my profound gratitude. Apologies for the diatribe. I’ll conclude now.
(1) Any architects out there who can affirm if I’m understanding this profession correctly, or better yet if I’m missing something here? Is my outlook just incongruent with this profession?
(2) I’m not one to usually fear failure, but fuck tonight I fear that if my creative gifts are my best to offer what happens in school if/when they’re not up to snuff.
First world problem.
Not an architect. But I work at a firm.
From what you said, I'd say find a way to keep making money and possibly look into starting business opportunities / investing. But in a way that also taps into your new interests. You can definitely take some classes and read more about design. Get some studio time in.
But if you just want to design stuff and work on residential stuff, I'd say you should be doing that. Learning that directly...etc. Why go through the whole intensive process and get a degree, do internships, take tests for years making average pay, when you're already a successful business owner? Especially since there's a lot you can do without a license. You have money and a business. That's better than any license.
The whole road to becoming an architect is long and if you're into it, go for it. But the salary along the way and the end result isn't incredibly lucrative. Sounds like you're already doing well financially. I think you'd do better to figure out why you''re unhappy and work on that. Maybe scale back at work. Or focus on hobbies. Hire out some tasks.
"And I have become an asshole. I now see most objects and buildings around me as being uninspired, shitty, and due to someone’s laziness. I’m not necessary a negative person but, damn, it certainly feels like there’s just a lot of shitty garbage everywhere I look."
It's fine to feel that way sometimes, but as a new investor? / architect. You'll be directly involved with and contributing to that garbage.You have to be happy working in it. With people. Collaborating. Making the best of tough / stupid situations. Really clean / beautiful design often isn't a thing. As architects you have to compromise and work within budgets, especially in affordable housing. There are still moments where you get things right. But that clean storefront on your loft is really expensive compared to double hung windows. There's only enough money for x or y. And z gets pulled.
If your clients are wealthy people that are open and supportive, that's fantastic (and rare.) If you are your own client, then do what you want, cause it's your $. But I'd say definitely get outside eyes on it for perspective too. Hope that gives a little bit of an idea.
"(2) I’m not one to usually fear failure, but fuck tonight I fear that if my creative gifts are my best to offer what happens in school if/when they’re not up to snuff."
Creativity is a process that you engage in. It's a learning experience where you're doing stuff, researching, writing, drawing...etc. Overtime you get better at it. It's not this innate thing that you have or don't have. If you fail at one task, you learn why you failed and take that with you.
I'd be more afraid that you get in and find that you just don't like it. Happens a lot. But it's a big field and there are a lot of options. And being older and having money / entrepreneurial skills should help a lot.
You had me at 'I have become an asshole'
Typically architects design what they're paid to design, which is not affordale housing. We do multifamily, but if it's supposed to be affordable multifamily, then the design has focus on being affordable.
it takes about 5 or 6 years of expensive school, then an internship that can be 3 to 5 years, then the tests before you get a license.
what's your business? No room for creativity there? Otherwise get an Eames lounge chair and bask in radiance of great design.
There is little creativity left in architecture, at least in the romantic sense. Today, creativity is about trying to complete projects with insane deadlines, shrinking budgets, asshole developers, over reaching codes set in place to protect humans from themselves...
Have you thought of expressing your creativity/design sense elsewhere? I am all for going through the process, school, interning, etc. but is all of that necessary to fulfill what you are looking for? If you go this route you may end up hating the one thing that you've always wanted, just due to all the day to day bs you have to put up with, similar to any other job.
Personally, I would recommend taking a furniture design class and then maybe some architectural theory classes. If design is what you are into then I think you should look at it from a larger sense, not just architecture. You are right in that design can be used to creatively solve problems, but this can be applied to many things, maybe even the job you are in currently? Or not. Take a furniture/woodworking class, there's plenty of design there without all the red lines and regulations of today's architecture, imo.
It just seems like a big leap to make with such a comfortable life already set up. But I can understand the desire. A note about TAing, it may be hard to TA if you have no experience already in architecture, like an undergraduate degree, at least for the first little bit.
I have 30 years in this profession, registered for 25. When I started out, I had a couple of distinct advantages. First, my parents paid for my college education - all of it. Second, I was single when I took my exams, and thus had the time to knock it out without having family distractions. A starting architect makes about the same money as a school teacher. After 10 years, and if you're good at what you do, you might hit as much as 100k as a project manager. If you never become licensed, and a lot of people on these forums like to complain about the considerable cost to do so and tell you to blow it off, you can discount your future earnings by, oh, probably at least 35%. Because you'll never make PM at the big firms that pay the bigger salaries - they only hire registered archs for those positions. Do the math on the student loans, future earning potential, downtime due to layoffs (figure six months per 8 years or so), and then ask yourself if it's the right career for yourself and your family. If you choose architecture, I wish you all the best - sincerely. And if you don't decide to go into it, find another outlet for your creativity and don't look back.
I just re-read your post. It sounds like you are on your way to being financially secure, and you have an entrepreneurial bent. And you are older. So you would invest the 5+ years to get the professional degree, and the two or three additional years (since IDP just changed) to get licensed. At that point, at the earliest opportunity that you feel you capable doing so, start your own firm, or partner with someone else and start one. Since you don't have to be the primary source of income or stability for your family, you have the luxury of taking the financial risk. You will need to be licensed to do this because you need a license to create and stamp drawings for permit, one of the basic services of a firm, and for other reasons. You then have the freedom to pursue your career how you want, instead of slogging it out in some big firm for a paycheck.
Welcome, and have at it.
Wow, where to begin. Serves me right for waiting 24 hours before returning to my desk. Many thanks for the feedback folks. To anyone else reading this please do chime in as I’m all ears.
@jp22
“You'll be directly involved with and contributing to that garbage.”
@curtkram
“architects design what they're paid to design… if it's supposed to be affordable multifamily, then the design has focus on being affordable.”
Yeah, I struggle with this one. In one sense, I’m already accustomed to some really awful, awful clients and have regrets about by current work in that I feel like I contribute to the wealth gap in this country. So on one hand it can’t get worse than where I am now. On the other hand, it seems ludicrous to me that beautiful or thoughtfully designed has to be expensive. Having no training or experience, I can make bold and ignorant statements like this. But then again, I am an idealist and do believe there has to be another way. I would love nothing more than to help find it.
I used to tell myself just a few more years at the business, catch a big break, nest a pile of cash, and then leverage it toward designing your own houses later when you become an architect. Business is ok and I’m not complaining but the big breaks haven’t arrived yet and I’m only getting older and filled with a greater sense of regret.
“Otherwise get an Eames lounge chair and bask in radiance of great design.”
The trend over the last decade of my life has been to own much less stuff, with the few items I have acquired all radiating great design. It’s nice and I’m grateful yet its constantly inspiring me to go create something of my own. Also I prefer the aluminum group.
@lacalr
“Personally, I would recommend taking a furniture design class and then maybe some architectural theory classes”
I’m fortunate to have a pretty outstanding community college in my area, and this has proven to be my salvation for the past 4-5 years. I’m only a welding course away from having earned a cert as a professional motorcycle mechanic (my hobby). I start my first cabinetry class in September, which will likely be 1 of 4. And I’m considering construction classes and chasing a contractor’s license before I begin architecture school. It’s entirely possible that I might finish the arch education and take it in a different direction and open up shop and build furniture. But even if this is the case (and I’m not sure it is), doesn’t that still reinforce the need for the training? It seems to me like the academics not only prepare students for solving problems with buildings but all kinds of creative problems as well. Or am I off on this? And in regards to furniture, it just seems to me like arch and furniture go together like hand in glove. Ditto for light fixtures as well. Wouldn’t a furniture or light designer just be some sort of hack without really understanding flow and purpose of the structures within which their creations exist? Again if I’m being naive and preachy please just tell it like it is.
Also I’d TA in science at the university so all set there.
@tex-arch
I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be at a big firm. Maybe that’d preclude me from every doing some skyscraper or museum of modern art in Dubai, but yeah my goal would be something with an ownership stake. Your second post is pretty much my exact plan, except I’m considering a masters designed for people with an non-arch undergad which I think takes only 3-4 years.
@betadine sutures
Based on your handle I’m thinking you may get me more than most. There’s really just no way the hours of arch can eclipse surgery. Medicine and then later running a business ruined my sense of work/life balance. I’m older now and have kids, but I can’t comprehend 9 to 5. I just never want to go back to 70-80 hrs a week again, let alone 100 hour madness.
Also, would it be crazy for me as a grown man to ask someone to shadow them at their job? I somehow feel like shadowing is for 17 year olds and people may not take me seriously were I to ask.
.
I don't have any advice for you, but I am curious what this lucrative business is.... Maybe I'll trade careers with you.
Two last comments and then I'll move on.
First, I don't know any owners of their own firms who put in a standard 40-hour week. You're a small business owner plus being an architect.
Second, clients are clients. Yes, they get better the farther up the design food chain you are, but no matter what, they control the money and thus the decisions. Ask any "starchitect" about the compromises he's had to make and I'm sure you'll get an earful. Still, overall most of us are proud of our work as architects, even if we are not all on the covers of magazines.
Have you thought about becoming a developer?
Since a few have asked, I currently own a small test prep business.
"Have you thought about becoming a developer?"
Yeah I have, but is that not that same as thinking about becoming rich? It seems like becoming a developer isn't about education or training, but really about how much money you (or your friend or your family) have. Once again, maybe I'm being naive but to have the cash to see it through - develop, design, and build... to me that would perfect. As business philosophy goes I'm a strong advocate for vertical integration.
I second Tex_arch. Running a business as a sole-proprietor (especially a sole-practitioner business), you will be typically spending 60+ hours a week (which can be spread over 7 days) when you have projects and have to go to city meeting representing your client as their design professional, meeting the clients, designing their project, managing the business and business accounting, don't forget the tax preparation, etc. When you have no employees or business partners, you're on your own because you have no one to divide the labor.
As for ducducgoose, I might suggest working for a arch firm that does healthcare projects because it capitalizes on his medical field background. Use that knowledge to design spaces in hospitals as an avenue. That is one area that has been typically stable in the architecture field.
Doctors turn architects tends to work in architecture firms that do healthcare projects due to the fact that they have that inside knowledge of healthcare clients.
ducducgoose,
Some people here might help you understand about how developers work. There are some good posts by Carrera on this forum that can be useful in learning how it works.
ducducgoose,
I would look into a residential or light commercial design-build business. Obviously, you'll need to learn more regarding contracting and construction, but it sounds like you're on your way at the community college. Plus, from a general contracting standpoint, if you choose reputable and experienced subcontractors, you'll learn from them quickly.
On the architectural side of things, if the projects are mostly interior and non-structural, you can get by without a stamp. When you get to areas requiring a stamp, you can engage an architect and partner up by the project. If you are finding the work, you can act like a developer, and lead the design. Ironically, many clients will contact a builder before an architect. Especially for the smaller projects. This format also creates a lot of freedom to design the details and to pick the finishes. Ideally, you will work with clients. However, it's not a stretch to flip houses once you're established.
The benefit of this type of business is you don't have go through the intensive architectural education and internship. Yet, you can still have a lot of freedom designing. And if you want to go into furniture design, you'll be amazed at the opportunities that arise once you're in the middle of a project.
Here is an analogy/allegory of current architecture practice:
Imagine you (the client) are hungry and you want a meal at a restaurant - here is how the restaurant experience would work if run in the same way as architecture practice.
Firstly, finding the restaurant would be difficult (probably down an alley way or above a block of shops), but when you did it would look good inside. The staff would be young and good looking, and the chef would be an older white male. You have heard amazing things about this place through social media, but most of that is from friends of the owner, and one of the staff members who runs the Instagram account.
There wouldn't be a menu of course, but there would be amazing photos of previous meals that have been produced that may inform you as to what to expect. None of the photos would have prices.
To order, the wait staff would ask you what you felt like. They would then comment on that as to its appropriateness and make suggestions for improvements or steer you towards a complete other dish.
If they had not produced a meal or cuisine that you suggested, they would still say that they could do it (we normally do Greek, but sure Thai is doable!).
After you had finalised an order, the wait staff would not be able to give you a clear idea of when it would be ready or how much it would cost. Assuming you had a dining partner, they would also face the same uncertainty. But the wine would be delicious.
The reason that they cant give you an idea of how much or when, is that there is actually no food kept in the kitchen, no prep work and no recipes. Oh, there might be some ideas for these things, and the photos of previous meals of course, but by and large, not much else.
The wait staff would inform the chef of the basic idea of the meal, and the chef would change it to suit what he thought was best for you. At this point, a basic ingredient list would be made, and the youngest, cheapest and least experienced member of staff would be sent to the supermarket to procure the items - there is no wholesale delivery and no fridges or freezers in the kitchen.
Upon arrival, the wait staff might confirm the order back to you at which point things have changed - you will have no choice on this. To assist you, they bring out a collage of photos of previous dishes they have made to represent sorta what you might get.
You will be asked to pay a sum now for the meal, with the remainder to be paid back at some point. This balance will be unknown.
In the meantime, the chef has advanced his thinking of what your meal should be, but doesn't update you. The ingredients he now has are now not entirely appropriate for this new dish, perhaps some of them can be used, The rest are put in the bin. The young staff member goes to the supermarket again for the revised ingredients for the revised recipe - you pay for the wastage.
The soundtrack of the restaurant is fantastic though.
The chef now deems that the dish actually requires a different type of oven than the one he has, and he doesn't really have the skills for. He can either inform you of this and choose a methodology for cooking using his own machinery, or rely on someone else's machinery and learn on the job - the restaurant next door for example. He pops next door to use their machine, but it takes longer (they are using it) and they charge him to use it - he doesn't really execute it that well.
Whilst this is going on, he isn't really focusing because there are other diners, with other dishes that he has to invent on the spot using the same process.
By the time he finishes and assembles the meal - which looks fantastic but is hours late - it arrives to you cold and bearing no resemblance to what you ordered. In terms of nutritional value, there is no information, and things have been put on the plate to make it look good but cant actually be eaten, and some of the actual food is raw. No is sure if this is a main or dessert, or both. It could be breakfast considering the time taken to deliver.
But, before you can eat, you have to pay for it. It is now 4x the cost that you thought it might have been based on previous conversations. Your appetite is gone. You are frustrated, angry and you are made to feel awkward. You pay the price but ask for a doggy bag to take the meal away as you cant stand being there. On hearing the commotion, the chef comes out and asks why you are so upset, but offers no refund or recompense.
On your way out, you put the food in the bin and go to McDonald's and cry into your thick shake.
TL:DR: architects solve rich peoples problems - anything else is too hard. If you really want to work in architecture, think about how to radically change it because architects are apparently incapable of doing so.
The reason that they cant give you an idea of how much or when, is that there is actually no food kept in the kitchen, no prep work and no recipes.
that's not right. the reason it's hard to estimate a timetable is because invariably the client will change the recipe while watching it being prepared. when they say 'can you uncook the onion a little,' the architect is in a tough spot. experience tells us that charging additional services for the additional time and expense that go along with redoing the meal makes the client mad because they feel nickel and dimed.
also, much prep work in the kitchen. the design may not be copy/paste, but the details are.
that's not right. the reason it's hard to estimate a timetable is because invariably the client will change the recipe while watching it being prepared
Yep, its the clients fault ;)
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