The AMA is after me to change my username on archinect.
As regards to the OP, the truth is that the AIA and NCARB have absolutely no balls to go after software firms that routinely post Software Architect jobs, but they will come after us folk making measly amounts of money if we "abuse" the term. Yes I know the NCARB recent deal, but lets see when it comes into being...
May 17, 15 9:52 pm ·
·
I wouldn't waste time going after the IT field since legally title protection laws can only be enforced if there is a reasonable harm to public by confusion. Is the public harmed by software people calling themselves software architects. The laws are meant for physical harm or major financial harm. Is the public confused between the role of a software architect and that of a building architect?
It would be a waste of time and energy for what point. If I was using the architect on a building design, engineering and construction related field, you would have a right to complain but if it is something completely non-related like software, then that would go well above and beyond the legal scope of enforcement of the licensing law.
Really, we have to be kind of sensible about the enforcement because it will bleed the resources of the state licensing boards to the point of sheer utter bankruptcy with 0% collection rate or damn near. There are in fact legal limits to enforcing title protection laws.
It is best if we don't waste energy on fruitless efforts on those who have no impact on us than search engine annoyance which can be resolved easily especially when we have our own job posting sites strictly dedicated to the field of architecture not something like Monsterjobs.com
Otherwise, a little additional filter usage will help a bit.
After all, we are talking about job posting database management.
That's my opinion.
I know the frustration but we already have an established answer to the job listing issue.
The fruitless debate about a trivial title continues on.. While we're distracted by ourselves, other professions are advancing ahead and we'll continue to play catch up and start to lose grounds. The public has already forgotten about us, luckily by law we are still needed...
sameoldoctor, they also have no balls to go after foreign starchitects doing projects in the US and taking credit as the "architect." (which is fine imo, just pointing out the double standard) When they come to town the local architects roll over and hope for a belly rub.
Donna Sink said, "Good_Knight, you must not have been hanging around here for the last 18 months since the Emerging Professionals Summit at which the AIA, NCARB, ACSA, and NAAB formulated and immediately began implementing changes based on the deeply-held understanding by these organizations that education and practice of architecture, especially for young professionals, is changing drastically and the organizations all need to change as well to keep up.
The AIA's RePositioning started two years ago, and the organization is already restructuring.
NCARB's Future Title Task Force and Licensure Upon Graduation initiatives are in full force, with the report on the use of the word "intern" being the first step, and the proposals due in January from 32 (IIRC) schools that are considering curriculum changes to support Licensure Upon Graduation.
It's easy to stand outside and say "that organization is screwed up". If you think AIA should change you should join and start being the change you want to see in the world. Otherwise you're just not paying attention to the change that *is* already happening. (As Ken said, yes the voting and debate around the resolutions at the annual meeting was a clusterfuck, but 1. that is the nature of groups with many voices and 2. my understanding is that many of the problems arose due to the fact that the structure of the organization is in flux and how approved resolutions would be implemented is a big question at this point in time.)
So to paraphrase you from another thread, your vitriolic hyperbole is obfuscating the actual facts of the situation. Put up or shut up."
It is likely a positive thing you are apparently so fired up. Hopefully there are many more as intense about your perspective as you are: I doubt it can hurt the situation.
If I understand the tenor of your position, Donna, the fatal flaw I see in it is that: the ego is a fickle thing. 'Git er done' challenges to the ego might sort of work in the very short term with knuckle-headed endeavors like twisting off rusted on bolts or setting new world records in squirrel suit stunts.
The trouble is, orchestrating long term, *lasting* *quantifiable* *positive* *change* is actually antithetical to engaging the short term power burst inherent in reactions to double dog inspired challenges which are, in the end, merely short term unsustainable power bursts motivated by the desire to avoid the bruising of the ego and/or ostensibly promote it for its own myopic, pointless ends. The destination of the ego trip is inevitably only a dead end.
To be fair, rhetoric and passion aside, past experience would dictate that seeing quantifiable change will be believing.
"Hope Springs Eternal".... well, if you say so. Thing is I was a member of AIA for nearly 40 years and I went to most all of the conventions, sent as a voting delegate numerous times voting on all manner of failed reform initiatives with the net result over time of more regulation (NCARB), more years added to schooling, IDP was added, path to licensing extended... while proud then & now to have been a "member" it NEVER put a dime in my pocket, NEVER benefited my firm or family....DO NOT look into the sun....because IT IS NOT a spring of eternal hope.... it is simply a frame on a painting, and you're the only one with paint & a brush.
honorary degree my ass... this guy probably doesn't even know how to read music and pretends "poetry" with some crude sample and loop combined with four letter words here and there is good music... his audience is ignorant, he's ignorant, and he gets rewarded for it. He'll never have my respect no matter how many titles he gets.
In my mind the best way for the architect to connect with the common man is to do something that actually effects them. So that would generally mean influence thei places they live in, their homes/apartments/condos. Most Regular Joes live in pre-existing homes, many of which need an intervention, but there aren't many architects, that I know of, that work in the renovation/remodeling business. Folks complain that those HGTV programs have given too much voice to the GC house flipper types, and not so much to those of us who probably would care about the process and impact of our decisions. Once again I look to my favorite Japanese TV show in which architects are tasked with doing major renovations on incredibly dilapidated homes/apts/condos, showing the process in depth, the passion of the designers and craftsmen, and the aftereffects of a very long process (most episodes take up a 2 hour TV bloc). If AIA were to somehow pull for something like that I'm sure it would have a greater impact on public opinion than an obscure ad campaign, but American TV isn't made for such things... So we're left to argue as to what's the least worst course for the profession when the public seems like it couldn't care less.
If I hear someone say "open concept" ever again, I was told by my doctor that they won't be able to stop the bleeding in my ears.
Has anyone else had the problem with homeowner consults, where they expect a renovation to be like it is on TV... where it costs next to nothing (or is done for free) and is completed during a commercial break?
Lady wanted to put an extra floor on her house basically. "What's your budget?" "Um, like, maybe, Ten Thousand?"
That show also shows the budget and outlay, sans design fees, for each project, which is another fun aspect of the show, not to mention they ALWAYS come in at the end $20 or so below budget...
Mr_Wiggin said, "In my mind the best way for the architect to connect with the common man is to do something that actually effects them. So that would generally mean influence thei places they live in, their homes/apartments/condos. Most Regular Joes live in pre-existing homes, many of which need an intervention, but there aren't many architects, that I know of, that work in the renovation/remodeling business. Folks complain that those HGTV programs have given too much voice to the GC house flipper types, and not so much to those of us who probably would care about the process and impact of our decisions. Once again I look to my favorite Japanese TV show in which architects are tasked with doing major renovations on incredibly dilapidated homes/apts/condos, showing the process in depth, the passion of the designers and craftsmen, and the aftereffects of a very long process (most episodes take up a 2 hour TV bloc). If AIA were to somehow pull for something like that I'm sure it would have a greater impact on public opinion than an obscure ad campaign, but American TV isn't made for such things... So we're left to argue as to what's the least worst course for the profession when the public seems like it couldn't care less."
[emphasis added]
BINGO. Hell yes. And given the budget the AIA likely spent on their self-directed campaign of shameless, senseless, pointless, ego feeding self aggrandizement; the euphemistically labeled "Look Up" campaign (dollars which on a regular basis actually go to undermine the professional and economic position of the average AIA member as the Look Up campaign does), this is the sort of idea which would have been achievable and likely resulted in measurable positive far reaching results.
...FWIW I disagree with the statement "American TV isn't made for such things". C'mon now: we all know the average 'Merican TV audience just needs anything packaged and presented a certain way (youtube "BRAWNDO: the thirst mutilator") and they will consume it.
haha menona....my wife watches that shit all the time and as i work away on architecture in the other room i cant help but cringe everytime i hear "open concept"....occasionally i get up and yell at the TV - open concept?open concept?!?, fuck you and your open concept and babe do not under any circumstance call it open concept or i will flip the fuck out.
Thanks. That's a relief. I thought it was just another thing that drives me completely insane that no one else even recognizes is a thing - or not a thing, however that goes. Notice that the people always smile and nod and say things like "That's beautiful."
Yeah? Beautiful? Fake wood. Fake Brick. Fake Stone. Tiny windows? Beautiful? Oooohhh... granite countertops. Ahhhh. Beautiful - I see now. A $10K thing to put your toaster on? Mmmmm. Toast. Wait maybe someone said "Open Concept" and I'm having another stroke.
"Why'd you turn the channel? Why are you so mad?" my couch-mate says.
How can I explain? "Uh, well... um, I just wanted to see what else was on."
its just how that phrase is expressed that gets under you skin....with all the annoying subtleties you mention....and then when they go "vintage" - oh boy! look ma, bought this wood plaque at a garage sale and now i am going to make look older to give it character so its visible from the kitchen in the living room - open concept.
Title of Architect - Reclaiming it and protecting it.
The AMA is after me to change my username on archinect.
As regards to the OP, the truth is that the AIA and NCARB have absolutely no balls to go after software firms that routinely post Software Architect jobs, but they will come after us folk making measly amounts of money if we "abuse" the term. Yes I know the NCARB recent deal, but lets see when it comes into being...
I wouldn't waste time going after the IT field since legally title protection laws can only be enforced if there is a reasonable harm to public by confusion. Is the public harmed by software people calling themselves software architects. The laws are meant for physical harm or major financial harm. Is the public confused between the role of a software architect and that of a building architect?
It would be a waste of time and energy for what point. If I was using the architect on a building design, engineering and construction related field, you would have a right to complain but if it is something completely non-related like software, then that would go well above and beyond the legal scope of enforcement of the licensing law.
Really, we have to be kind of sensible about the enforcement because it will bleed the resources of the state licensing boards to the point of sheer utter bankruptcy with 0% collection rate or damn near. There are in fact legal limits to enforcing title protection laws.
It is best if we don't waste energy on fruitless efforts on those who have no impact on us than search engine annoyance which can be resolved easily especially when we have our own job posting sites strictly dedicated to the field of architecture not something like Monsterjobs.com
Otherwise, a little additional filter usage will help a bit.
After all, we are talking about job posting database management.
That's my opinion.
I know the frustration but we already have an established answer to the job listing issue.
Richard, which "we" would that be?
Architects et all here on this forum and beyond.
The fruitless debate about a trivial title continues on.. While we're distracted by ourselves, other professions are advancing ahead and we'll continue to play catch up and start to lose grounds. The public has already forgotten about us, luckily by law we are still needed...
sameoldoctor, they also have no balls to go after foreign starchitects doing projects in the US and taking credit as the "architect." (which is fine imo, just pointing out the double standard) When they come to town the local architects roll over and hope for a belly rub.
Donna Sink said, "Good_Knight, you must not have been hanging around here for the last 18 months since the Emerging Professionals Summit at which the AIA, NCARB, ACSA, and NAAB formulated and immediately began implementing changes based on the deeply-held understanding by these organizations that education and practice of architecture, especially for young professionals, is changing drastically and the organizations all need to change as well to keep up.
The AIA's RePositioning started two years ago, and the organization is already restructuring.
NCARB's Future Title Task Force and Licensure Upon Graduation initiatives are in full force, with the report on the use of the word "intern" being the first step, and the proposals due in January from 32 (IIRC) schools that are considering curriculum changes to support Licensure Upon Graduation.
It's easy to stand outside and say "that organization is screwed up". If you think AIA should change you should join and start being the change you want to see in the world. Otherwise you're just not paying attention to the change that *is* already happening. (As Ken said, yes the voting and debate around the resolutions at the annual meeting was a clusterfuck, but 1. that is the nature of groups with many voices and 2. my understanding is that many of the problems arose due to the fact that the structure of the organization is in flux and how approved resolutions would be implemented is a big question at this point in time.)
So to paraphrase you from another thread, your vitriolic hyperbole is obfuscating the actual facts of the situation. Put up or shut up."
It is likely a positive thing you are apparently so fired up. Hopefully there are many more as intense about your perspective as you are: I doubt it can hurt the situation.
If I understand the tenor of your position, Donna, the fatal flaw I see in it is that: the ego is a fickle thing. 'Git er done' challenges to the ego might sort of work in the very short term with knuckle-headed endeavors like twisting off rusted on bolts or setting new world records in squirrel suit stunts.
The trouble is, orchestrating long term, *lasting* *quantifiable* *positive* *change* is actually antithetical to engaging the short term power burst inherent in reactions to double dog inspired challenges which are, in the end, merely short term unsustainable power bursts motivated by the desire to avoid the bruising of the ego and/or ostensibly promote it for its own myopic, pointless ends. The destination of the ego trip is inevitably only a dead end.
To be fair, rhetoric and passion aside, past experience would dictate that seeing quantifiable change will be believing.
Hope Springs Eternal. To be sure I hope, too.
"Hope Springs Eternal".... well, if you say so. Thing is I was a member of AIA for nearly 40 years and I went to most all of the conventions, sent as a voting delegate numerous times voting on all manner of failed reform initiatives with the net result over time of more regulation (NCARB), more years added to schooling, IDP was added, path to licensing extended... while proud then & now to have been a "member" it NEVER put a dime in my pocket, NEVER benefited my firm or family....DO NOT look into the sun....because IT IS NOT a spring of eternal hope.... it is simply a frame on a painting, and you're the only one with paint & a brush.
fuck kanye west and the entire HIP HOP culture...
honorary degree my ass... this guy probably doesn't even know how to read music and pretends "poetry" with some crude sample and loop combined with four letter words here and there is good music... his audience is ignorant, he's ignorant, and he gets rewarded for it. He'll never have my respect no matter how many titles he gets.
jazz on the other hand is brilliant :)
Bulgar... but those slotted shades... so architectural
In my mind the best way for the architect to connect with the common man is to do something that actually effects them. So that would generally mean influence thei places they live in, their homes/apartments/condos. Most Regular Joes live in pre-existing homes, many of which need an intervention, but there aren't many architects, that I know of, that work in the renovation/remodeling business. Folks complain that those HGTV programs have given too much voice to the GC house flipper types, and not so much to those of us who probably would care about the process and impact of our decisions. Once again I look to my favorite Japanese TV show in which architects are tasked with doing major renovations on incredibly dilapidated homes/apts/condos, showing the process in depth, the passion of the designers and craftsmen, and the aftereffects of a very long process (most episodes take up a 2 hour TV bloc). If AIA were to somehow pull for something like that I'm sure it would have a greater impact on public opinion than an obscure ad campaign, but American TV isn't made for such things... So we're left to argue as to what's the least worst course for the profession when the public seems like it couldn't care less.
bulgar, why follow your rant about hip-hop culture with a positive statement about jazz? Are you saying some blacks are ok?
I dont understand how that fits in there.
who the heck said anything about race?
subconciously you did...
"you said fuck hip hop culture, ignorant audiance...but jazz is brilliant"
Why say but jazz is brilliant? what did that statement have to do with jazz other than they are both predominantly black music?
re: the HGTV / house flipper business...
If I hear someone say "open concept" ever again, I was told by my doctor that they won't be able to stop the bleeding in my ears.
Has anyone else had the problem with homeowner consults, where they expect a renovation to be like it is on TV... where it costs next to nothing (or is done for free) and is completed during a commercial break?
Lady wanted to put an extra floor on her house basically. "What's your budget?" "Um, like, maybe, Ten Thousand?"
No.
That show also shows the budget and outlay, sans design fees, for each project, which is another fun aspect of the show, not to mention they ALWAYS come in at the end $20 or so below budget...
Mr_Wiggin said, "In my mind the best way for the architect to connect with the common man is to do something that actually effects them. So that would generally mean influence thei places they live in, their homes/apartments/condos. Most Regular Joes live in pre-existing homes, many of which need an intervention, but there aren't many architects, that I know of, that work in the renovation/remodeling business. Folks complain that those HGTV programs have given too much voice to the GC house flipper types, and not so much to those of us who probably would care about the process and impact of our decisions. Once again I look to my favorite Japanese TV show in which architects are tasked with doing major renovations on incredibly dilapidated homes/apts/condos, showing the process in depth, the passion of the designers and craftsmen, and the aftereffects of a very long process (most episodes take up a 2 hour TV bloc). If AIA were to somehow pull for something like that I'm sure it would have a greater impact on public opinion than an obscure ad campaign, but American TV isn't made for such things... So we're left to argue as to what's the least worst course for the profession when the public seems like it couldn't care less."
[emphasis added]
BINGO. Hell yes. And given the budget the AIA likely spent on their self-directed campaign of shameless, senseless, pointless, ego feeding self aggrandizement; the euphemistically labeled "Look Up" campaign (dollars which on a regular basis actually go to undermine the professional and economic position of the average AIA member as the Look Up campaign does), this is the sort of idea which would have been achievable and likely resulted in measurable positive far reaching results.
...FWIW I disagree with the statement "American TV isn't made for such things". C'mon now: we all know the average 'Merican TV audience just needs anything packaged and presented a certain way (youtube "BRAWNDO: the thirst mutilator") and they will consume it.
I made no reference to race... YOU made that connection... I was just talking about the music no matter who listens to it.
so why add "jazz on the other hand is brilliant"?
haha menona....my wife watches that shit all the time and as i work away on architecture in the other room i cant help but cringe everytime i hear "open concept"....occasionally i get up and yell at the TV - open concept?open concept?!?, fuck you and your open concept and babe do not under any circumstance call it open concept or i will flip the fuck out.
ODN...
Thanks. That's a relief. I thought it was just another thing that drives me completely insane that no one else even recognizes is a thing - or not a thing, however that goes. Notice that the people always smile and nod and say things like "That's beautiful."
Yeah? Beautiful? Fake wood. Fake Brick. Fake Stone. Tiny windows? Beautiful? Oooohhh... granite countertops. Ahhhh. Beautiful - I see now. A $10K thing to put your toaster on? Mmmmm. Toast. Wait maybe someone said "Open Concept" and I'm having another stroke.
"Why'd you turn the channel? Why are you so mad?" my couch-mate says.
How can I explain? "Uh, well... um, I just wanted to see what else was on."
Glad it's not just me though.
its just how that phrase is expressed that gets under you skin....with all the annoying subtleties you mention....and then when they go "vintage" - oh boy! look ma, bought this wood plaque at a garage sale and now i am going to make look older to give it character so its visible from the kitchen in the living room - open concept.
for once i want to see some half ass designer suggest a "closed comcept"........
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