Hi all. This is my first post, and I am not an architect. I apologize for being here, but I was hoping someone, perhaps a student (?) might be able to offer some suggestions on what to do with the exterior of this ugly place. The upside is that at 4000sf, it will be more than enough space for him to set up his optometric practice, and it is on a busy hwy. The downside is that it's an approximately 60'x60' box that has an even uglier commerical bldg conjoined with it (to the left). Because my son is on a budget, he is hoping to just replace some windows, install all new exterior sheathing (to be determined), and change the exterior soffit that goes around two of the three four sides. He is open to ideas. We were hoping someone online might have something helpful to offer in the aesthetics department? Anything would be helpful.
I agree that it's ugly, but nothing that would be too difficult to fix.
I'll repeat what I told my optometrist sister when she was opening her practice: Hire the right person and pay what they're worth - you don't want to cheap out on the biggest project of your life. There's always someone willing to do something for a bit less, but quality is important too.
Personally I'd just paint the exterior and spend the money on the inside and the signage, but it may be worse in person than the pics...
Sister was upset that the local architects around her wanted $5k for permit sets and was sure they were trying to rip her off, told her to pay it an be happy you have professionals working for you instead of moonlighters who may or may not finish on time or with any competence
also that s a pretty big space unless your son has partners to help run the practice, it may make sense to only take a portion and either lease the remaining space or reserve it for future expansion.
perhaps a student (?) might be able to offer some suggestions on what to do with the exterior of this ugly place
this is classic... lure in the student and hope that for a very small fee (under $500, $1000 max) a pitch that he/she can include it in their professional portfolio, the student can just work his/her magic and make something out of nothing...
Little does the OP know...
students know shit about actually building anything in reality....
if you can buy a building... you can afford to pay an architect...
if your son is on too tight of a budget to start his office, why don't you give him the funds to hire someone local that might be able to actually help?
asking students to work for next to nothing is not the right approach.
Okay, to be clear, I am not hear to solicit under-the-table business from anyone. My hope with the thread was that there might be some creative minds in the audience who might like to offer some design suggestions. It's that simple. If this thread is inappropriate for this forum, then please delete it.
what I don't understand is how you can possibly think of what to do without knowing what you want to accomplish? Furthermore, how can I know what you can design without knowing your restrictions?
this type of research comes from an interaction with the end-user/owner and getting familiarized with your local zoning/building regulations. Once you have that information, you can start to put together a list of needs/desires and only then can you start to actually "design" anything...
otherwise, we will be shooting in the dark forever...
father of an optometrist coming here trying to get some free design advice?
hire an architect you cheapskate...or better yet, don't meddle in your adult son's life, if he has decided to buy the building and thinks it is fit for his practice...stfu.
Doc, I know you're afraid, much in the same way I was afraid to visit a real eye doctor, and not a Pearle Vision Center, but honestly, you're better off sitting down with an architect, preferably one that does small commercial. They will save you a ton of money, and headaches; just like my eye doctor did.
No one here can help, we don't even know what state the project resides. There's more than just cosmetics, there's a whole host of code issues to run through.
See an architect, just like I would expect to see your son, if I need my $800 frames replaced; we'll both be better off for having done so.
Funny - an eye doctor wanting FREE professional advice.
Maybe, once we find out where this guy's located, he'll volunteer to give all the Archinectors who live in that town a FREE eye exam. 'Cause, like you know, it's really the same sort of thing.
guys... eye exams cost a fraction of what a fee for this project would be... so please- don't give the OP the wrong idea... an eye exam in exchange for doing this project? psh- that's a bad trade if you ask me...
eyedoc, it really would be smart to hire a local architect or designer to help you with this. I did an optometry office for a friend, and it was *not* a simple project. Someone needs to help you not just make the building look prettier from the street, but deal with logistics such as:
1. Sufficient waiting room area, is it ADA compliant, is it securable in case a crazy person wanders in, is it easy to navigate for people whose eyesight isn't good?
2. What is the path from waiting room -> consultation room -> exam room -> frame showroom -> fitting area -> checkout? Do those paths cross over one another in a way that will cause confusion or collisions? Remember you are likely to have old people as clients.
3. Where does the customer bathroom fit into the above path, and is it ADA compliant? Is your square footage large enough that you need separate M/F restrooms, or not?
4. Where is the lab, is it adjacent to the employee break room? How many private offices do you need, or need to add in case of future partners? How much storage space do you need? Do you have a discreet delivery area, or will deliveries require rolling big cartons of chemicals on a hand truck through your waiting room? If all the docs are busy and you only have one receptionist, can that single person manage to secure both the customer entry and the delivery entry? Is the floor strong enough to support the very heavy exam equipment that eye exams require?
5. How do you make the space inspire enough comfort, desire, and confidence in a customer sufficient for them to drop many hundreds of dollars on a pair of frames with your son rather than try them on here then go to Costco to make the purchase?
Hire an architect. These are 5 of several hundred questions that need to be answered. Your son can work together with a good designer to resolve most of them.
If you don't know any architects locally, check your local American Institute of Architects website. Look for smallish firms who do "light commercial/retail" type work, not hospital or airport designers. Ask your friends if they know any architects; ask your dentist etc. who designed their offices. Also, go into some cool local shops/offices that you like the look of and ask them who they used. Most design services are procured by word of mouth, and if you can find a good designer you will be helping your son far more than soliciting free comments on the internet! Good luck.
OP, I would be willing to bet that neither you nor your son would buy second rate medical equipment and yet you are not willing to invest in the most important piece of advertising his practice can make.
The look of a doctor's office communicates to the patients nonverbally. If you want your son to have a successful practice, one of the best investments you can make would be to have a professional do this job.
Would you go to a doctor's office that looked like that?. You seem to be under the impression that a few cosmetic changes would fix it. If this was a store, it is going to need some interiors work to make it a doctor's office in addition to making exterior changes.
As has been already stated, There is no student capable of doing this job. You are going to need a professional.
It depends Lye. If this is in Oregon and Washington, commercial buildings maybe exempt but this one would not due to the fact it is connected to an adjacent building via a common wall.
As a building designer, I would not touch this project without an architect unless there is none of the following: (if the project is located in Oregon or Washington)
Structural alteration
Change of Occupancy
Change of construction type classification
Replacing windows without enlarging the windows bay that currently exist would not trigger a structural change. Replacing the door without changing the size and location of door may also be done without requiring an architect.
Changing paint will not require an architect.
This building was primarily designed to be two commercial units.
Apr 6, 15 8:30 pm ·
·
It is likely the building was designed by an architect on a modest budget.
Remember, not all architects are high art types. Alot of architects works on such modest commercial buildings.
Apr 6, 15 8:32 pm ·
·
For some reason, it seems to look familiar.
Apr 6, 15 8:35 pm ·
·
eyedoc1956,
". Because my son is on a budget, he is hoping to just replace some windows, install all new exterior sheathing (to be determined), and change the exterior soffit that goes around two of the three four sides. He is open to ideas. We were hoping someone online might have something helpful to offer in the aesthetics department? Anything would be helpful."
It is likely you can change the windows as long as you don't alter the window bay size without an architect and only a contractor. You can likely change the exterior finish without an architect. You maybe able to have sheathing re-spec'ed with only an engineer to call the specs for plywood / OSB sheething specs.
the exterior soffit maybe something that may require a licensed architect/engineer to prepare the plans for. Other interior alterations involving load-bearing walls may also need a licensed architect/engineer.
A student will not want to jeopardize their prospects of architectural licensing by doing this project without a supervising architect.
A project like this can easily jeopardize their ability to be license if they run afoul of the licensing law and is then disciplined by the licensing board with a fine.
In Oregon and Washington, the reason it would be a non-exempt project if there are structural alterations, occupancy classification change, or construction type classification change is because it is attached to another building and the combined square footage would need to be considered.
The problem is there needs toa will to exceed expectations in the world of optometry where this is (apparently) all that’s needed to succeed:
What could be is a tool that would transcend mediocrity and put your son in first place….what we do, if allowed to, makes money for our clients….I only offer this as inspiration of what could be, at very little cost – a veil over the street views with the name of the concern emblazoned on it……paint the whole existing out in charcoal gray and veil it…….make it disappear.
Sky, whatever is legal for the area of course. I am sure you understood the intent of my post.
There are a lot of post from people looking for free advice not only on this forum but other architectural forums and especially contractor forums.
I wonder if a business model could be organized to be able to do consultation and or design long distance via the internet? With HD cameras in everybodys back pocket and video conferencing / live feed meetings as common as an ordinary phone call I honestly think it would be possible.
It almost doesn't need to be mentioned but the legal stuff is taken care of .
^Yeah, I know. Part of the problem is that the general public really has no idea of what is involved. It is our fault for so poorly communicating.I think Donna and Richard did a very good job of trying to show to the OP that getting suggestions from an internet forum is not sufficient.
I don't know about the business model. I need to think about it.
Apr 6, 15 10:41 pm ·
·
I agree with Donna and my point. There is an inherent problem when asking to a group of people... you have some a--holes, some jokers and god knows what.
I suggest hiring a local sole-proprietor architect in the area who is licensed with the architectural licensing board if there will be alterations of the framing of the walls.
It would be too hard for me to serve this client adequately from remote. Architecture is a field where you need to see the client face to face and discuss project details in private in a professional dignified way. One, you don't get a dozens or hundreds of opinions with no basis. It is best to talk directly with your design professional. Some of this wouldn't necessarily need an architect in and of itself. However, making the building serve your son (yes, your son eyedoctor) business and fit the needs of the business image. there are factors beyond just changing windows and doors and a new wall finish and new paint job. I suspect there is also some degree of interior work as well to do and bring the design together as a whole in a sensible way.
Right now, it is just a cheap commercial unit for two small businesses but lacks the atmosphere and fell of an optometrist office.
Also, Blackwell: here is a fantastic example of a dumpy little commercial building that Blackwell turned into a gorgeous medical office - and it must have been done inexpensively, as it's a free health clinic.
Yesterday, Monday, my son made an appointment with an architect. They are meeting today. Thanks to the 2-3 of you who were sincere and tried to be helpful/professional--in particular, Donna Sink and Richard Balkin.
it probably doesn't look like that in real life. on the arch record website donna linked, the 'before' image actually had dead trees (as in winter dead), with green trees hiding the cmu on the 'after' picture. a shot in spring with a repaired fabric canopy would have gone a long way.
the interior does look pretty amazing though. if i were to go to a free clinic, i think i would want to go to this one.
eyedoc, thanks, Donna and Balkin, have provided good advice as well. It sounds like a potentially fun project, given you are able to hire the right architect.
Donna's reply was spot on - architects do more than make the building look nice, they also help it work well and meet the law's requirements. Important for any business but especially for a medical practice.
Your son needs a nice building to be successful. It does not need to be super expensive, just nice and clean. It is an investment, same as the equipment he will buy.
Best of luck and good job on talking to an architect. Have your son interview 3 or more before settling on one. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Rather than airing a commercial showing architects wearing the latest eyewear while looking up, the AIA should have (and who knows maybe it is in their plans) started a campaign based around this sort of project and developed a series of ads that chart a project. This is what the public needs to know. " Hey, I was going to give a hundred dollars to a student for some drawings and maybe some blueprints. Permitting? Loads on that cool new entry? Accessibility? Egress? Oh yeah, I had no idea."
Apr 10, 15 1:55 pm ·
·
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My son's buying this ugly commercial bldg. Help?
Hi all. This is my first post, and I am not an architect. I apologize for being here, but I was hoping someone, perhaps a student (?) might be able to offer some suggestions on what to do with the exterior of this ugly place. The upside is that at 4000sf, it will be more than enough space for him to set up his optometric practice, and it is on a busy hwy. The downside is that it's an approximately 60'x60' box that has an even uglier commerical bldg conjoined with it (to the left). Because my son is on a budget, he is hoping to just replace some windows, install all new exterior sheathing (to be determined), and change the exterior soffit that goes around two of the three four sides. He is open to ideas. We were hoping someone online might have something helpful to offer in the aesthetics department? Anything would be helpful.
Thank you,
Brian
Is that purple...
Thank goodness the people won't be able to see until they come out.
Look into hiring an architect - the fees would be a small % of the overall and dramatically improve the building. I see lots of potential!
Brian, just have your cheapskate son buy one of these classy statues and place it next to the door:
That will be $250 please.
I agree that it's ugly, but nothing that would be too difficult to fix.
I'll repeat what I told my optometrist sister when she was opening her practice: Hire the right person and pay what they're worth - you don't want to cheap out on the biggest project of your life. There's always someone willing to do something for a bit less, but quality is important too.
Personally I'd just paint the exterior and spend the money on the inside and the signage, but it may be worse in person than the pics...
Sister was upset that the local architects around her wanted $5k for permit sets and was sure they were trying to rip her off, told her to pay it an be happy you have professionals working for you instead of moonlighters who may or may not finish on time or with any competence
just thinking out loud....
might be better to start out with a lease?
also that s a pretty big space unless your son has partners to help run the practice, it may make sense to only take a portion and either lease the remaining space or reserve it for future expansion.
perhaps a student (?) might be able to offer some suggestions on what to do with the exterior of this ugly place
this is classic... lure in the student and hope that for a very small fee (under $500, $1000 max) a pitch that he/she can include it in their professional portfolio, the student can just work his/her magic and make something out of nothing...
Little does the OP know...
students know shit about actually building anything in reality....
if you can buy a building... you can afford to pay an architect...
if your son is on too tight of a budget to start his office, why don't you give him the funds to hire someone local that might be able to actually help?
asking students to work for next to nothing is not the right approach.
I think the OP is Miles playing us.
So far, I really like the indian chief idea.
Okay, to be clear, I am not hear to solicit under-the-table business from anyone. My hope with the thread was that there might be some creative minds in the audience who might like to offer some design suggestions. It's that simple. If this thread is inappropriate for this forum, then please delete it.
what I don't understand is how you can possibly think of what to do without knowing what you want to accomplish? Furthermore, how can I know what you can design without knowing your restrictions?
this type of research comes from an interaction with the end-user/owner and getting familiarized with your local zoning/building regulations. Once you have that information, you can start to put together a list of needs/desires and only then can you start to actually "design" anything...
otherwise, we will be shooting in the dark forever...
father of an optometrist coming here trying to get some free design advice?
hire an architect you cheapskate...or better yet, don't meddle in your adult son's life, if he has decided to buy the building and thinks it is fit for his practice...stfu.
free eye exam and glasses for any posters that help this dickwad...
Doc, I know you're afraid, much in the same way I was afraid to visit a real eye doctor, and not a Pearle Vision Center, but honestly, you're better off sitting down with an architect, preferably one that does small commercial. They will save you a ton of money, and headaches; just like my eye doctor did.
No one here can help, we don't even know what state the project resides. There's more than just cosmetics, there's a whole host of code issues to run through.
See an architect, just like I would expect to see your son, if I need my $800 frames replaced; we'll both be better off for having done so.
Funny - an eye doctor wanting FREE professional advice.
Maybe, once we find out where this guy's located, he'll volunteer to give all the Archinectors who live in that town a FREE eye exam. 'Cause, like you know, it's really the same sort of thing.
guys... eye exams cost a fraction of what a fee for this project would be... so please- don't give the OP the wrong idea... an eye exam in exchange for doing this project? psh- that's a bad trade if you ask me...
eyedoc, it really would be smart to hire a local architect or designer to help you with this. I did an optometry office for a friend, and it was *not* a simple project. Someone needs to help you not just make the building look prettier from the street, but deal with logistics such as:
1. Sufficient waiting room area, is it ADA compliant, is it securable in case a crazy person wanders in, is it easy to navigate for people whose eyesight isn't good?
2. What is the path from waiting room -> consultation room -> exam room -> frame showroom -> fitting area -> checkout? Do those paths cross over one another in a way that will cause confusion or collisions? Remember you are likely to have old people as clients.
3. Where does the customer bathroom fit into the above path, and is it ADA compliant? Is your square footage large enough that you need separate M/F restrooms, or not?
4. Where is the lab, is it adjacent to the employee break room? How many private offices do you need, or need to add in case of future partners? How much storage space do you need? Do you have a discreet delivery area, or will deliveries require rolling big cartons of chemicals on a hand truck through your waiting room? If all the docs are busy and you only have one receptionist, can that single person manage to secure both the customer entry and the delivery entry? Is the floor strong enough to support the very heavy exam equipment that eye exams require?
5. How do you make the space inspire enough comfort, desire, and confidence in a customer sufficient for them to drop many hundreds of dollars on a pair of frames with your son rather than try them on here then go to Costco to make the purchase?
Hire an architect. These are 5 of several hundred questions that need to be answered. Your son can work together with a good designer to resolve most of them.
If you don't know any architects locally, check your local American Institute of Architects website. Look for smallish firms who do "light commercial/retail" type work, not hospital or airport designers. Ask your friends if they know any architects; ask your dentist etc. who designed their offices. Also, go into some cool local shops/offices that you like the look of and ask them who they used. Most design services are procured by word of mouth, and if you can find a good designer you will be helping your son far more than soliciting free comments on the internet! Good luck.
OP, I would be willing to bet that neither you nor your son would buy second rate medical equipment and yet you are not willing to invest in the most important piece of advertising his practice can make.
The look of a doctor's office communicates to the patients nonverbally. If you want your son to have a successful practice, one of the best investments you can make would be to have a professional do this job.
Would you go to a doctor's office that looked like that?. You seem to be under the impression that a few cosmetic changes would fix it. If this was a store, it is going to need some interiors work to make it a doctor's office in addition to making exterior changes.
As has been already stated, There is no student capable of doing this job. You are going to need a professional.
Find someone on this forum that is looking for a job maybe Mountain Magic for instance.
Hire that person.
Person designs building for you.
Person gets experience / job.
OP gets professional results.
Eye Doc can make money.
Eye Doc sends dad to Hawaii.
Everybody wins.
^No offence but Mountain Magic does not appear to have a license.
Someone is going to have to seal these documents.
Where is this located? What state?
This may reflect what can be done without a licensed architect and what may require a licensed architect.
Before making responses, it is best practice to ask about locality of project.
Point made, point taken. However, it is my understanding that non-residential requires a seal because this building is not a private residence.
plant vines...lots of them...
It depends Lye. If this is in Oregon and Washington, commercial buildings maybe exempt but this one would not due to the fact it is connected to an adjacent building via a common wall.
As a building designer, I would not touch this project without an architect unless there is none of the following: (if the project is located in Oregon or Washington)
Structural alteration
Change of Occupancy
Change of construction type classification
Replacing windows without enlarging the windows bay that currently exist would not trigger a structural change. Replacing the door without changing the size and location of door may also be done without requiring an architect.
Changing paint will not require an architect.
This building was primarily designed to be two commercial units.
It is likely the building was designed by an architect on a modest budget.
Remember, not all architects are high art types. Alot of architects works on such modest commercial buildings.
For some reason, it seems to look familiar.
eyedoc1956,
". Because my son is on a budget, he is hoping to just replace some windows, install all new exterior sheathing (to be determined), and change the exterior soffit that goes around two of the three four sides. He is open to ideas. We were hoping someone online might have something helpful to offer in the aesthetics department? Anything would be helpful."
It is likely you can change the windows as long as you don't alter the window bay size without an architect and only a contractor. You can likely change the exterior finish without an architect. You maybe able to have sheathing re-spec'ed with only an engineer to call the specs for plywood / OSB sheething specs.
the exterior soffit maybe something that may require a licensed architect/engineer to prepare the plans for. Other interior alterations involving load-bearing walls may also need a licensed architect/engineer.
A student will not want to jeopardize their prospects of architectural licensing by doing this project without a supervising architect.
A project like this can easily jeopardize their ability to be license if they run afoul of the licensing law and is then disciplined by the licensing board with a fine.
In Oregon and Washington, the reason it would be a non-exempt project if there are structural alterations, occupancy classification change, or construction type classification change is because it is attached to another building and the combined square footage would need to be considered.
'Sons' building my ass, it's your building. You're just too embarrassed to admit it.
I've already solved the problem in a way that will dramatically improve the building's appearance and increase business revenue at insignificant cost.
If you're interested, a nonrefundable retainer of $5,000 will be sufficient for me to provide a concept sketch that will blow your socks off.
The problem is there needs to a will to exceed expectations in the world of optometry where this is (apparently) all that’s needed to succeed:
What could be is a tool that would transcend mediocrity and put your son in first place….what we do, if allowed to, makes money for our clients….I only offer this as inspiration of what could be, at very little cost – a veil over the street views with the name of the concern emblazoned on it……paint the whole existing out in charcoal gray and veil it…….make it disappear.
http://willbruderarchitects.com/portfolio/agave/
Yes, there is trouble, trouble right here in River City.
Bulgar: "... an eye exam in exchange for doing this project? psh- that's a bad trade ..."
Now, that wasn't even remotely my point, was it?
Sky, whatever is legal for the area of course. I am sure you understood the intent of my post.
There are a lot of post from people looking for free advice not only on this forum but other architectural forums and especially contractor forums.
I wonder if a business model could be organized to be able to do consultation and or design long distance via the internet? With HD cameras in everybodys back pocket and video conferencing / live feed meetings as common as an ordinary phone call I honestly think it would be possible.
It almost doesn't need to be mentioned but the legal stuff is taken care of .
^Yeah, I know. Part of the problem is that the general public really has no idea of what is involved. It is our fault for so poorly communicating. I think Donna and Richard did a very good job of trying to show to the OP that getting suggestions from an internet forum is not sufficient.
I don't know about the business model. I need to think about it.
I agree with Donna and my point. There is an inherent problem when asking to a group of people... you have some a--holes, some jokers and god knows what.
I suggest hiring a local sole-proprietor architect in the area who is licensed with the architectural licensing board if there will be alterations of the framing of the walls.
It would be too hard for me to serve this client adequately from remote. Architecture is a field where you need to see the client face to face and discuss project details in private in a professional dignified way. One, you don't get a dozens or hundreds of opinions with no basis. It is best to talk directly with your design professional. Some of this wouldn't necessarily need an architect in and of itself. However, making the building serve your son (yes, your son eyedoctor) business and fit the needs of the business image. there are factors beyond just changing windows and doors and a new wall finish and new paint job. I suspect there is also some degree of interior work as well to do and bring the design together as a whole in a sensible way.
Right now, it is just a cheap commercial unit for two small businesses but lacks the atmosphere and fell of an optometrist office.
Sorry, late at night.
Architecture is a field where you need to see the client face to face and discuss project details in private in a professional dignified way.
Around here it's often done over a full set of plans in an expensive restaurant at lunchtime. I think it's a form of impromptu theater.
PS Carerra god I love Bruder's work. Everything he does is phenomenal. He's one of my favorites.
Also, Blackwell: here is a fantastic example of a dumpy little commercial building that Blackwell turned into a gorgeous medical office - and it must have been done inexpensively, as it's a free health clinic.
http://archrecord.construction.com/projects/portfolio/2014/06/1406-Northwest-Arkansas-Free-Health-Center-Marlon-Blackwell-Architect-slideshow.asp?slide=1
Yesterday, Monday, my son made an appointment with an architect. They are meeting today. Thanks to the 2-3 of you who were sincere and tried to be helpful/professional--in particular, Donna Sink and Richard Balkin.
^Blackwell, my favorite image....getting bold with things.........
it probably doesn't look like that in real life. on the arch record website donna linked, the 'before' image actually had dead trees (as in winter dead), with green trees hiding the cmu on the 'after' picture. a shot in spring with a repaired fabric canopy would have gone a long way.
the interior does look pretty amazing though. if i were to go to a free clinic, i think i would want to go to this one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.079034,-94.161886,3a,23.5y,142.25h,87.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfma0_91jqMaDtsNvcRjkow!2e0
Eyedoc, I'm offended you find my native-American statue suggestion not serious.
Carrera, that's a great picture. The things you can do when you don't have snow loads.
Ken, yours was one of the comments I did appreciate. Thanks!
good luck!
btw please follow up when your're finally done, love to hear or see how things end up
eyedoc, thanks, Donna and Balkin, have provided good advice as well. It sounds like a potentially fun project, given you are able to hire the right architect.
Thanks for posting that Blackwell building Donna. The more I see that interior the better it looks.
Donna's reply was spot on - architects do more than make the building look nice, they also help it work well and meet the law's requirements. Important for any business but especially for a medical practice.
Your son needs a nice building to be successful. It does not need to be super expensive, just nice and clean. It is an investment, same as the equipment he will buy.
Best of luck and good job on talking to an architect. Have your son interview 3 or more before settling on one. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Rather than airing a commercial showing architects wearing the latest eyewear while looking up, the AIA should have (and who knows maybe it is in their plans) started a campaign based around this sort of project and developed a series of ads that chart a project. This is what the public needs to know. " Hey, I was going to give a hundred dollars to a student for some drawings and maybe some blueprints. Permitting? Loads on that cool new entry? Accessibility? Egress? Oh yeah, I had no idea."
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