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It's not just architecture grads...

Jul 5 '11 22 Last Comment
citizen
Jul 5, 11 12:19 pm

This article on the challenges facing film school grads shows some strong parallels to what's been happening in our field.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/movies/film-school-graduates-job-prospects-at-usc-nyu-ucla.html?src=me&ref=general

 

 

 

Orhan AyyüceOrhan Ayyüce
Jul 5, 11 1:03 pm

art school graduates are even worst than architecture and film schools combined. there are a lot of art departments all over the country.., in almost every school..

"if" they are working:

otis graduates? dog walkers.

ucla? house painter's assistants.

usc? sign painters, billboard company interns.

state university art schools? baby sitters.

the list goes on. maybe 1 in 1000 becomes an artist and makes a living from it...

Orhan AyyüceOrhan Ayyüce
Jul 5, 11 2:38 pm

with the technology, culture and arts have became industries with easy production and swelled by graduates. it would be okay if life was sustainable by going to museums, making artsy objects, designing items of fashion and clothing, playing video games, posting creative references in facebook and twitter and watching television and movies.

they are more fun to study than engineering science and administrative jobs, in short, boring jobs as to say. they offer and propagate a culture, a life style and, yes, sexual liberation and joy among other hedonisms. if one looks all the socially thriving events and industries right now they all contain and connected to falsely defined and invented creative industries. in reality, most of this is really hollow and misrepresented with the lack of mass political criticality.  

whether they are film, arts and architecture or other so called creative fields, schools are in business and they are in fierce competition to absorb the market demand. the problem is, this demand is totally artificial and its products are not sustainable in terms of basic human survival. humans produced art no matter what the circumstances were. so even the arts produced these days are mainly hollow. because it is mainly consumer goods or in support of one. art work and consumer object became inseparable. look at the architectural magazines, the project and next page of material ad is inseparable. all in luxury lifestyle genre.   

crudely speaking without long considerations of material, critical writing and similar issues that are already out there and talked about.. as a society we are waiting for fast moving train to hit. 

i entertain (np)  that the lesser dependent and developed societies who are more resilient to advance capitalism and survive on a handful of rice a day are going to survive in the long run instead of us developed ones. it feels like we are in a world wide cocoon, wwc, perhaps a variation of on toilet, a water closet..

J. James R.J. James R.
Jul 5, 11 3:40 pm

"Los Angeles Community College has put out more successful graduates than any other school."

By that same logic, you could say the U.S. High School system has put out more successful graduates than any other institution of learning.

As for the Art majors (Fine Arts, Studio Arts, Art History?), it's certainly not the best major but it's in the same boat of other related majors such as Liberal Arts and Humanities. According to the Strategic National Arts Alumni Project (SNAAP) Snaapshot, 92% who want to work currently are working with 81% finding work soon after graduation.

~Sixty-six per cent of art graduates said their first job was a close match for the kind of work they wanted.

Out of all the Snaapshot data, guess which Arts major had the highest debt load with an only moderate increase in salary compared to the other arts? Architecture.

J. James R.J. James R.
Jul 5, 11 3:41 pm

P.S. Isn't someone in this thread a professor? Cite sources, please.

18x32
Jul 5, 11 5:07 pm

not so much to contribute to this discussion except:

a) Sources? Yay!! Discussions with facts are always more civil and rewarding than discussions with opinions

b) Scare quotes? Boo!! 'Elite' and 'prestigious' are meaningless words since Berkeley, GSD, TCAUP, Cincy, Sci-Arc, Auburn, Yale, and more have all borne those adjectives, are all different from one another, promote different curricula, and are all (actually this may be a secret to internet forums?) producing varied graduates even within their own programs.

metal
Jul 5, 11 5:27 pm

when i was in art school the dean told us if we want to make our art, we're going to need a day job. A lot of my friends from art school ended up in web design. Maybe only 2 are serious arteeests, and even they do on-the-side things like teaching.

I think in the finer arts (art,film, acting) its always been like this, and a lot of the students know that.

I also have to admit, im not that suspicious of brand-name schools when compared to LA community college. I'll bet quite a few film students did NOT graduate from that place, they took some classes then left for work or transferred to some other place.

Most pritzker prize winners came from the following schools:

AA-3
GSD-4
MIT-2
Yale-2
University of Tokyo - 2
École des Beaux-Arts - 2
USC-2
University of Porto - 2

And most of these schools are hot brand names. 

Im not saying pritzker is the standard, but its seems to provide meeting area for architects that can build, think, write, and talk. Not just get a job

metal
Jul 5, 11 5:34 pm

pritzker winners and where they graduated from:

Philip Johnson - GSD
Luis Barragan - self-taught
James Stirling - University of Liverpool
Kevin Roche - Dublin, IIT
I.M. Pei - MIT,GSD
Richard Meier - Cornell
Hans Hollein - academy of fine arts Vienna
Gottfried Böhm - Technische Hochschule in Munich
Kenzo Tange - University of Tokyo
Oscar Niemeyer- Rio de Janeiro Academy of Fine Arts
Gordon Bunshaft - MIT
Frank Gehry - USC
Aldo Rossi - Politecnico di Milano
Robert Venturi - Princeton
Alvaro Siza - University of Porto
Fumihiko Maki - University of Tokyo, GSD
Christian de Portzampar - École Nationale des Beaux Arts
Tadao Ando - self taught
Rafael Moneo - Madrid University
Sverre Fehn - Oslo School of Architecture
Renzo Piano - Politecnico di Milano
Norman Foster - University of Manchester, Yale
Rem Koolhaas - AA
Herzog & de Meuron - ETH Zürich
Glenn Murcutt - University of New South Wales
Jørn Utzon - Royal Academy of Fine Arts in Copenhagen
Zaha Hadid - AA
Thom Mayne - USC, GSD
Paulo Mendes da Rocha - Universidade Presbiteriana Mackenzie
Richard Rogers - AA, Yale
Jean Nouvel - École des Beaux-Arts
Peter Zumthor - Kunstgewerbeschule, Pratt
SANAA - Japan Women's University, Yokohama National University
Eduardo Souto de Moura - University of Porto

 Politecnico di Milano also has 2 grads that won the pritzker

Orhan AyyüceOrhan Ayyüce
Jul 5, 11 5:40 pm

see what happens when you ask for numbers?

Milwaukee08
Jul 5, 11 7:32 pm

I thought the SnaapShot site was interesting...

Top 3 architecture grad jobs?

Architect, Sales Related (Walmart?), and Food Preparation (McDonalds?)

Please, please, you're filling me with WAY too much confidence in my chosen profession...

citizen
Jul 5, 11 11:37 pm

I'm more curious about what 0.2% of a transgendered architect looks like...

holz.box
Jul 6, 11 1:19 am

barragan was an engineer before turning to the architecture gig. slightly more relevant than going from scratch (aka self-taught)...

metal
Jul 6, 11 3:03 pm

numbers help in times of foggy emotions.

Im not completely sure, but i didnt put Barragan's school because I thought his influences came from elsewhere. He seems to be in a category with Ando and Zumthor

J. James R.J. James R.
Jul 6, 11 3:10 pm

 

I'm more curious about what 0.2% of a transgendered architect looks like...

I'd like you to meet Femme Koolhaus.

citizen
Jul 6, 11 5:08 pm

I'm sorry I asked.

metal
Jul 6, 11 6:34 pm

ughh i hope thats prada, Femme

job job
Jul 10, 11 12:31 pm

fantastic. love it

trendzetter
Jul 11, 11 7:49 pm

Average day-labor rate from the guys in front of Home Depot is now $15-20 an hour; trust me, I know ;) That actually competes with my last Architecture job salary assuming one could find work everyday.  Lesson - Home Depot day laborer with water cooler is in it for about $6.00 for the igloo cooler / grad is in it for roughly $40,000. or more and doesn't even get a tan.

jmanganelli
Jul 11, 11 8:37 pm

tru 'nuf, trendzetter

tint
Jul 12, 11 10:36 am

So who is robbing the American middle class again? Is it corporations? Maybe, not really, they rob the poor. Is it government? Maybe a little, but they mostly rob the rich. Or is it higher education? and healthcare that we are also paying for and not using?

l3wis
Jul 12, 11 11:22 am

I just read 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'. ha ha. per the book, the middle class is so entrenched in rat-race, bill/tax-paying survival, because our fundamental understanding of wealth and assets is wrong. also, because we feel that education is a launchpad to greater income.

jbushkey
Jul 12, 11 10:46 pm

Simple just make $14 billion dollars like GE then you don't have to pay one red cent.

trace™
Jul 13, 11 8:42 am

400 top earning families paid an average of 16% personal taxes.  Us middle classers are paying almost twice what they do.

 

That's how the rich get richer.  Plus, in todays world, the wealthy  can buy things at distressed prices, hold and then sell for a massive profits.  This is also true for the stock market, if you bought at lower prices you are waaaay up now.

 

Look at what's happening in Congress now.  The TP's are willing to cut 44% of the gov't (basically firing a large portion of our employed population - talk about unemployment numbers!!  The majority of the last numbers were gov't jobs already!!) and not do anything about the tax breaks on the wealthy (they won't get it, but the fact that they are asking is just insane).

So yeah, the middle class is getting eroded as companies squeeze for profits, people at the top are making more than they ever have (and are much wealthier than before these recession/depression).

Until there is easier credit out there, the middle class won't stand a chance elevating themselves, pursuing entrepreneurship ventures, or just starting a small business.

Oh, and look at education prices!  F*ck, it is just insane the cuts that are about to happen!!

 

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