I don't know, I haven't been running my own firm for that long, but Carrera's speech isn't way off-base. I'd probably never use it on a new/prospective hire, but maybe if an employee was continually too disruptive to work with, I might say something like that (incorporated into a longer conversation with them...of course) to hopefully give them a perspective on the possibility of their continued employment.
Honestly, I've only worked with (previously when working for others) one person (drafter) where I think a speech like this would have both been appropriate and effective (for a while anyway). Of course, at that time, I wasn't in the position to be the one to do it--and don't know if it was done at all, although I do know that he no longer works with that firm.
I would suggest practically nothing Carrera says makes sense to a recent grad who is single and on salary, even seems a bit non-PC probably.....nothing like the warm feeling of constant acceptance of academia......But as you climb the ladder or go out on your own it begins to make a lot of sense......might be rich but have bigger bills (like staff, overhead, a family).........assumptions - people out of the safety net of academia or even a 'public ' position make a lot of assumptions about what is their due for just existing and showing up to work.............................reading Generation X at the moment by Douglas Coupland, here is a quote all you 'millinials' will enjoy----- - "Mid-Twenties Breakdown: A period of mental collapse occurring in one's twenties, often caused by an inability to function outside of school or structured environments coupled with a realization of one's essential aloneness in the world. Often marks induction into the ritual of pharmaceutical usage."........don't assume jack shit is a great trait of employee,even if they annoy you with constant questions..
People who explode hatches are self centered assholes. Take 5 minutes to learn a new thing so you don't fuck everyone else's day up because you are essentially lazy and stupid. ......just saying
Sneaky, Thanks. Years ago I had a partner come in and turn the screws on me for money (I always owned majority share – appeals to my insecurity) said he needed a bigger share. Gave him the numbers off the top of my head and said “you get a report every month, you know the numbers, how is that possible?” He said “I thought I was going to make more”, I said “who told you that?” He said, “Well I thought I would”….guess that’s when I slammed my head into the drywall and turned instantly into an ass hole.
Learned that it’s up to us ass holes to ferret out every known assumption people have in their heads because if we don’t we’re going to end up owning those assumptions. Need to add to OP’s desired list – X) don’t assume anything and if you do & it’s not correct, own it. Then I wouldn’t need a speech.
Bowling, not sure that I’ve ever been called an ass hole by another architect before (assuming that you’re an architect), think this the first time. I say a lot of mean things about people, in frustration, but never to their face or use names. I think you can check but I have never gotten personal with anyone on this forum. This is a place to exchange ideas, ask questions, take time-out and perhaps rant. I don’t mind spirited exchanges and I don’t mind funny but I do mind personal. Measure all of me (professionally) before you put a label on me.
Lets remember ways, we are all assholes. We all have one.
We are more than a single body part, of course. Everybody has frustrations about things and that is what makes us relate-able. As we all know, there is no single set of traits that makes a good employee some traits may be seen by some employees that performs badly but those traits may be seen in good employees just as some traits often seen in good employees can be seen in bad employees but there are some general traits that have largely consistent results.
In some cases, we need to be a little bit prickly as the traits of 'pricks' as in arrogance comes out of confidence and conviction which those two are common attributes of good employees in leadership roles. but those two traits unmitigated can become traits of arrogance and a problem for others in a team work environment when you need to keep those traits under control through humility. A strong leader should be A) able to do things themselves but B) also work with others because if you have a team, why need to do everything yourself. So letting go and allowing others to do things or sharing responsibility. Since being an employee generally means you are being part of a team, this means you need to share ownership of the work to be done and responsibility.
Respecting a chain of command is another attribute because you are hired to be part of the team not ownership of the firm and those with equity or tenure has earned their role and position more often than not.
In my world, as I see it in my perspective, if I were to be employed, it is not my position to rock the boat but share my point of view respectfully but candid and forthright. Social understanding that you are working with fellow human beings just like yourself, it is important to understand each other and respect each other. In time, you'll be emotionally tied especially as you put your life, sweat, tears and sometimes blood into the company so a good employee will do his or her best to socially interact with your colleagues respectfully.
Let remember, principals, associates and everyone involved in carrying out the activities of an architectural firm or design firm, etc. are all colleagues and peers. The point is not to public humiliate or demean your peers but also be clear how you feel regarding design decisions whether for or against but doing so respectfully. After all, you aren't trying to hurt.
We should try to bear that same spirit here in the larger part of this community of peers/colleagues.
I apologize this is a little lengthy but it is connecting the fabric of points to the fabric of contexts.
I say this in jest and in the best light possible (I'm sure I was called worse several times today alone)
Feb 26, 15 11:46 pm ·
·
Since you either aspiring to be a professional or a licensed architect and a license does NOT make you one. A license only means you are licensed. But to be a real professional, one that can be trusted, you need hold an ettiquette of professionalism. Being a professional is a way of life, thinking and elevating your way of being to be a person of integrity, honesty, considerate, respectful, and worthy of respect, and so forth. Employment if your training and preparation to become that 'person' - the consummate professional that people trust and respect, honor and endear.
This is who people are willing to pay money for. Not jackasses with a piece of paper with a number on it but people they can trust is not out to screw them over.
A good employee must embody the trait of being a professional in all parts of their lives or at least try within human reason and work on that everyday. Employers seek good employees that will through their actions and conduct in life and vocation is going to be honoring and be of good asset to the firm who brings about a good reputation.
Many here are young or relatively so. Yes, architects/etc. has a reputation that precedes us which makes it even more a point that you need to embody a characteristics / traits of someone whom people want to trust by embodying a true professional spirit. When we jest around is assholery and other such foolery, it doesn't help your cause. Among the things we need to do is also show integrity and respect of your consummate colleagues/peers including those retired who have demonstrate insight that some of you may not fully understand until you are in the role of running a business and/or as an employer.
I'm sure we need to have thick skins to deal with clients but of course one of the challenges of being in the profession for years, it takes a toll on you. As professionals, we should not demean our own peers and colleagues and that is something we all need to do better.
The unspoken reality, is to be an asshole but have other people like you.
Then when you have driven the bus over them, and you are on top of the pile of dung called architecture, you can be openly an asshole, and smile as you pick up your Gold Medal.
I look at this using the logic used in sports team management- doesn't matter if you're a rookie or a vet, you're rewarded based on how you fit to the system.If you want to stay and be paid handsomely, exceed what is expected of you.
You must notice things, be aware, be intelligent, be curious and always learning the latest technology - both architecture and design software - also be able to remember what ever the P.A. tells you - be flexible and able to work long hours and weekends and mult-task - also you must be very very fast
Xenakis you're so off -base, it's frankly scary. You're like the offspring of Chicken Little and an ultra neurotic Woody Allen - exhausting to be around, even online.
Here's a tip for you - if you chilled out a bit and worked on your people skills, you wouldn't keep getting laid off. The reasons you're hearing (software, hours, etc) are just niceties told to your face so you'll leave the building without making a scene. It's the professional version of 'it's not you, it's me' and is just as honest.
Anyway I wish you all the success. You may not work smart but it sounds like you work hard, and there's merit to that.
Bowling Ball, I think you are a little off base with your comments about Xenakis, the fact is there are a wide variety of firms and each with a unique culture in some places you need to behave like you are in a monastery wear all black and talk in hushed tones, others it is like a fraternity and others you have a systematic accounting of every little thing you do. Some places a relaxed chill attitude is fine others you do have to be fast and the most proficient at the latest technology to advance or event to survive a round of cuts if a major project doesn't come in. Most folks are giving their own experiences here and everyone will have a huge array of opinions on what works or doesn't. I don't think you should pass judgement on or make assumptions about someone's employment history or their ability to work with others for offering up opinions that may not give you an accurate or complete picture of their circumstances.
If I chilled out, I would get laid off - my P.A. is 100% on - except then she is asleep - and even then she she is dreaming up up redmarks for us - here there is no off -
Xenakis, I feel for you, I really do. That's terrible news and I'm sorry to hear that.
I've been laid off before and it hurts. And it's not always for legitimate reasons.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're a drafter/tech of some kind. The reason I said what I said earlier is not because I claim to know what goes on at every firm, but is based on how you recount your experience working in this field - an odd combination of telling us how hard you work at every opportunity, and then giving us the "woe is me, I've been laid off again" speech.
At some point you've got to realize that something you're doing isn't working, because clearly it isn't. And the fact that you can't understand what you're doing wrong, gives me all sorts of red flags. Hint: It's not because you don't know the latest software, it's not because you aren't working hard enough or long enough hours. It's something else.
Anyway it's way past my bedtime. Good luck with the job search.
A drafter/tech? I was strictly a Revit specialist - now I'm a designer as well - architects want people that started out on architecture - I tend to do things differently than others - this comes from previous careers in video games and flight simulation - I claim I can achieve the same results and I do - it's all a matter of methods - I do a lot of my work in the Revit 3D views - it's just more expedient for design and coordination - as to why I get laid off? I just don't fit - the comment I get is "you don't seem like an architect" well they said the same thing about Corbu
So you're a drafter/tech. Nothing wrong with that, but it sounds like you want to be a designer. If that's the case, then you need to downplay, not emphasize, your technical skills. And frankly if you didn't go to architecture school, good luck. There's 50,000 young architects looking for work at any given time.
Good employee traits
I'm going to go ahead and sign us all up for group therapy, how's that sound?
Sorry, can't go, have an appointment with my psychiatrist on Friday.
That's the speech you give people? You make sure you tell them in long form how insecure you are?
Jeepers.
Carrera, we'll work around your other appointments.
Sneaky, over time you just get tired of the bullshit. Just read my post about assumptions.
......office staffs are full of assumptions.
I read your posts, you have a lot of good things to say and I appreciate that. I think it's unfortunate that you feel the need for that speech.
When you first showed up, Carrera, I quickly appreciated having your voice here as one of experience.
Turns out, you're just an insecure asshole. Professionally, at least.
I don't know, I haven't been running my own firm for that long, but Carrera's speech isn't way off-base. I'd probably never use it on a new/prospective hire, but maybe if an employee was continually too disruptive to work with, I might say something like that (incorporated into a longer conversation with them...of course) to hopefully give them a perspective on the possibility of their continued employment.
Honestly, I've only worked with (previously when working for others) one person (drafter) where I think a speech like this would have both been appropriate and effective (for a while anyway). Of course, at that time, I wasn't in the position to be the one to do it--and don't know if it was done at all, although I do know that he no longer works with that firm.
I would suggest practically nothing Carrera says makes sense to a recent grad who is single and on salary, even seems a bit non-PC probably.....nothing like the warm feeling of constant acceptance of academia......But as you climb the ladder or go out on your own it begins to make a lot of sense......might be rich but have bigger bills (like staff, overhead, a family).........assumptions - people out of the safety net of academia or even a 'public ' position make a lot of assumptions about what is their due for just existing and showing up to work.............................reading Generation X at the moment by Douglas Coupland, here is a quote all you 'millinials' will enjoy----- - "Mid-Twenties Breakdown: A period of mental collapse occurring in one's twenties, often caused by an inability to function outside of school or structured environments coupled with a realization of one's essential aloneness in the world. Often marks induction into the ritual of pharmaceutical usage."........don't assume jack shit is a great trait of employee,even if they annoy you with constant questions..
People who explode hatches are self centered assholes. Take 5 minutes to learn a new thing so you don't fuck everyone else's day up because you are essentially lazy and stupid. ......just saying
Sneaky, Thanks. Years ago I had a partner come in and turn the screws on me for money (I always owned majority share – appeals to my insecurity) said he needed a bigger share. Gave him the numbers off the top of my head and said “you get a report every month, you know the numbers, how is that possible?” He said “I thought I was going to make more”, I said “who told you that?” He said, “Well I thought I would”….guess that’s when I slammed my head into the drywall and turned instantly into an ass hole.
Learned that it’s up to us ass holes to ferret out every known assumption people have in their heads because if we don’t we’re going to end up owning those assumptions. Need to add to OP’s desired list – X) don’t assume anything and if you do & it’s not correct, own it. Then I wouldn’t need a speech.
Bowling, not sure that I’ve ever been called an ass hole by another architect before (assuming that you’re an architect), think this the first time. I say a lot of mean things about people, in frustration, but never to their face or use names. I think you can check but I have never gotten personal with anyone on this forum. This is a place to exchange ideas, ask questions, take time-out and perhaps rant. I don’t mind spirited exchanges and I don’t mind funny but I do mind personal. Measure all of me (professionally) before you put a label on me.
I believe the correct term is asshole.
Thanks Miles, I'll be sure to change the embroidery on my shirt pockets.
i agree you should be aware of what's an assumption and what's a fact. own your mistakes and all that.
i'll add empathy. that would be a good characteristic to have. i also like humility. or do you suppose those are a handicap?
++ Carerra embroidery
Patience, humility, wisdom, appreciation.
This pointless assholery makes archinect a worse place
Anybody mention big tits yet?
Lets remember ways, we are all assholes. We all have one.
We are more than a single body part, of course. Everybody has frustrations about things and that is what makes us relate-able. As we all know, there is no single set of traits that makes a good employee some traits may be seen by some employees that performs badly but those traits may be seen in good employees just as some traits often seen in good employees can be seen in bad employees but there are some general traits that have largely consistent results.
In some cases, we need to be a little bit prickly as the traits of 'pricks' as in arrogance comes out of confidence and conviction which those two are common attributes of good employees in leadership roles. but those two traits unmitigated can become traits of arrogance and a problem for others in a team work environment when you need to keep those traits under control through humility. A strong leader should be A) able to do things themselves but B) also work with others because if you have a team, why need to do everything yourself. So letting go and allowing others to do things or sharing responsibility. Since being an employee generally means you are being part of a team, this means you need to share ownership of the work to be done and responsibility.
Respecting a chain of command is another attribute because you are hired to be part of the team not ownership of the firm and those with equity or tenure has earned their role and position more often than not.
In my world, as I see it in my perspective, if I were to be employed, it is not my position to rock the boat but share my point of view respectfully but candid and forthright. Social understanding that you are working with fellow human beings just like yourself, it is important to understand each other and respect each other. In time, you'll be emotionally tied especially as you put your life, sweat, tears and sometimes blood into the company so a good employee will do his or her best to socially interact with your colleagues respectfully.
Let remember, principals, associates and everyone involved in carrying out the activities of an architectural firm or design firm, etc. are all colleagues and peers. The point is not to public humiliate or demean your peers but also be clear how you feel regarding design decisions whether for or against but doing so respectfully. After all, you aren't trying to hurt.
We should try to bear that same spirit here in the larger part of this community of peers/colleagues.
I apologize this is a little lengthy but it is connecting the fabric of points to the fabric of contexts.
I say this in jest and in the best light possible (I'm sure I was called worse several times today alone)
Since you either aspiring to be a professional or a licensed architect and a license does NOT make you one. A license only means you are licensed. But to be a real professional, one that can be trusted, you need hold an ettiquette of professionalism. Being a professional is a way of life, thinking and elevating your way of being to be a person of integrity, honesty, considerate, respectful, and worthy of respect, and so forth. Employment if your training and preparation to become that 'person' - the consummate professional that people trust and respect, honor and endear.
This is who people are willing to pay money for. Not jackasses with a piece of paper with a number on it but people they can trust is not out to screw them over.
A good employee must embody the trait of being a professional in all parts of their lives or at least try within human reason and work on that everyday. Employers seek good employees that will through their actions and conduct in life and vocation is going to be honoring and be of good asset to the firm who brings about a good reputation.
Many here are young or relatively so. Yes, architects/etc. has a reputation that precedes us which makes it even more a point that you need to embody a characteristics / traits of someone whom people want to trust by embodying a true professional spirit. When we jest around is assholery and other such foolery, it doesn't help your cause. Among the things we need to do is also show integrity and respect of your consummate colleagues/peers including those retired who have demonstrate insight that some of you may not fully understand until you are in the role of running a business and/or as an employer.
I'm sure we need to have thick skins to deal with clients but of course one of the challenges of being in the profession for years, it takes a toll on you. As professionals, we should not demean our own peers and colleagues and that is something we all need to do better.
Interesting to note how long it took a thread on good employee traits to get to asshole.
so if you're going to go into architecture, being an asshole is one of the most important traits
a random bum called me an asshole on the street years ago, no idea why. Co-workers thought it was hilarious and referred to me that way for weeks
.
The unspoken reality, is to be an asshole but have other people like you.
Then when you have driven the bus over them, and you are on top of the pile of dung called architecture, you can be openly an asshole, and smile as you pick up your Gold Medal.
I look at this using the logic used in sports team management- doesn't matter if you're a rookie or a vet, you're rewarded based on how you fit to the system.If you want to stay and be paid handsomely, exceed what is expected of you.
At my last gig we had a 350lb intern. This individual literally used to live in his parents' basement and would shower once a month.
Anyone who is not ^^^ that guy is OK by me. That experience left us all as tarnished souls.
You must notice things, be aware, be intelligent, be curious and always learning the latest technology - both architecture and design software - also be able to remember what ever the P.A. tells you - be flexible and able to work long hours and weekends and mult-task - also you must be very very fast
Xenakis you're so off -base, it's frankly scary. You're like the offspring of Chicken Little and an ultra neurotic Woody Allen - exhausting to be around, even online.
Here's a tip for you - if you chilled out a bit and worked on your people skills, you wouldn't keep getting laid off. The reasons you're hearing (software, hours, etc) are just niceties told to your face so you'll leave the building without making a scene. It's the professional version of 'it's not you, it's me' and is just as honest.
Anyway I wish you all the success. You may not work smart but it sounds like you work hard, and there's merit to that.
Bowling Ball, I think you are a little off base with your comments about Xenakis, the fact is there are a wide variety of firms and each with a unique culture in some places you need to behave like you are in a monastery wear all black and talk in hushed tones, others it is like a fraternity and others you have a systematic accounting of every little thing you do. Some places a relaxed chill attitude is fine others you do have to be fast and the most proficient at the latest technology to advance or event to survive a round of cuts if a major project doesn't come in. Most folks are giving their own experiences here and everyone will have a huge array of opinions on what works or doesn't. I don't think you should pass judgement on or make assumptions about someone's employment history or their ability to work with others for offering up opinions that may not give you an accurate or complete picture of their circumstances.
Over and OUT
Peter N
poop under 10minutes.
Bowling_ball
If I chilled out, I would get laid off - my P.A. is 100% on - except then she is asleep - and even then she she is dreaming up up redmarks for us - here there is no off -
Never mind - I just got laid off again - Oh Well
Xenakis, I feel for you, I really do. That's terrible news and I'm sorry to hear that.
I've been laid off before and it hurts. And it's not always for legitimate reasons.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're a drafter/tech of some kind. The reason I said what I said earlier is not because I claim to know what goes on at every firm, but is based on how you recount your experience working in this field - an odd combination of telling us how hard you work at every opportunity, and then giving us the "woe is me, I've been laid off again" speech.
At some point you've got to realize that something you're doing isn't working, because clearly it isn't. And the fact that you can't understand what you're doing wrong, gives me all sorts of red flags. Hint: It's not because you don't know the latest software, it's not because you aren't working hard enough or long enough hours. It's something else.
Anyway it's way past my bedtime. Good luck with the job search.
So you're a drafter/tech. Nothing wrong with that, but it sounds like you want to be a designer. If that's the case, then you need to downplay, not emphasize, your technical skills. And frankly if you didn't go to architecture school, good luck. There's 50,000 young architects looking for work at any given time.
does architectural school validate that your better in design? no! but in the job market, it gives a bit of an assurance to the prospect employer
Bowling_ball
Actually I have an M.arch from an accredited school
now I have another temp job again doing Multi-housing - working in a fast paced studio
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