Hello, my partner and I only recently started to work for ourselves and came across and unusual for us citation. We designed a multi storey development (3lvls) with 36 apartments. The design has been with the city council and is about to get approved. Our client payed us a fee of $150k. Recently he sold the project and the new buyer want to make changes to the design where it would require changing the sizes for corridors, bedrooms, bathrooms, balconies, incorporation of another stairwell and modification to ground floor shop walls. To meet their requirements the building will need to lose 6 apartments from one side and shift the walls across to satisfy the new measurement requirements. They offered to pay and hourly rate. I feel we could get it done in about 2 weeks, at $50 per hour it comes to the total of $4000 for all the modifications and reshaping the building. Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Non Sequitur
Jun 17, 20 12:02 pm
add an extra zero to that.
proto
Jun 17, 20 12:19 pm
this is basically a re-design
NFW it's a couple of weeks, whatever your hourly rate is (which sounds offensively low)
tduds
Jun 17, 20 12:39 pm
Seconding this - where are you that you're charging $50/hour? My time was billed at more than that as a drafter fresh out of undergrad. Even in small single family renovations I've never known a principal to bill less than $150-200.
People will treat you as well as you value yourself. Charge what you're worth.
Chad Miller
Jun 17, 20 1:30 pm
I agree that your hourly rate is low. I'm a PA / PM and I'm billed out at $90 in an area where the cost of living is moderate (western Colorado).
citizen
Jun 17, 20 12:27 pm
As described, you're not making minor tweaks to a few drawing sheets, but partially redesigning the building. These changes, once you start them, may well require other modifications you haven't anticipated-- including potential impacts on structural and mechanical systems, among other things. Don't low-ball your fee and time here.
If they balk, walk.
Chad Miller
Jun 17, 20 1:38 pm
I think the fee your proposing to charge the client is too low. As others have said this will involve more than just drafting up some changes.
Also your initial fee of $150K seems way too low. I'm not sure what area you're in so my numbers are approximate however . ..
36 units at say 700 sf each = 25,200 sf x $245 sf cost = $6,174,000 construction cost. 7% of that is around $432K - 80% of that would be an architectural fee of $345K.
atelier nobody
Jun 17, 20 2:53 pm
Sounds like they've only taken through entitlements so far, though.
Chad Miller
Jun 17, 20 3:06 pm
Good point.
SD: $69K
DD: $69K
CD: $120K
Bid: $18K
CA: $69K
atelier nobody
Jun 19, 20 6:05 pm
In a perfect world, I would always try to get SD/Entitlements as a separate contract from DD-CA. At least in this part of the world (Southern California), Entitlements are always such a headache that you end up designing the damn building 5-6 times before you're done. And, gods help you if you do residential in a design review zone...
KatL06
Jun 18, 20 6:43 am
My partner an I went straight into running a firm recently soon after finishing uni so we were not sure how to charge at that time. I was wrong about the hourly rate, I should have said it should be about $150/h. I should also mention I'm based in Australia so my cost is in AUD. Thanks for the feedback though. I wasn't sure at this point what the value of 'redesign' would be. I appreciate all the feedback, you have really clarified things for me.
justavisual
Jun 18, 20 8:20 am
50/hr is friends and family endless changes rate.
120+ is more like it for a typical client.
Chad Miller
Jun 18, 20 9:43 am
Especially if you're one of the partners.
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 20 9:55 am
my friends and family rate is just booze.
Chad Miller
Jun 18, 20 10:12 am
You're Canadian, I thought your currency was booze and maple syrup.
Non Sequitur
Jun 18, 20 10:16 am
I get my maple syrup as bribe from the contractors. (true story)
atelier nobody
Jun 19, 20 5:59 pm
My grandfather used to have bottles of maple syrup labeled with his company name and send them to customers for Christmas.
atelier nobody
Jun 19, 20 6:00 pm
I wouldn't even do friends & family at $50 - If I like 'em that much I'd just do it for free.
citizen
Jun 19, 20 8:26 pm
Who was it on here that said they charge more for friends and family? I totally get that.
Non Sequitur
Jun 19, 20 11:26 pm
citizen, that sounds like something Miles would say.
*Not sure if the original post came up....
Hello, my partner and I only recently started to work for ourselves and came across and unusual for us citation. We designed a multi storey development (3lvls) with 36 apartments. The design has been with the city council and is about to get approved. Our client payed us a fee of $150k. Recently he sold the project and the new buyer want to make changes to the design where it would require changing the sizes for corridors, bedrooms, bathrooms, balconies, incorporation of another stairwell and modification to ground floor shop walls. To meet their requirements the building will need to lose 6 apartments from one side and shift the walls across to satisfy the new measurement requirements. They offered to pay and hourly rate. I feel we could get it done in about 2 weeks, at $50 per hour it comes to the total of $4000 for all the modifications and reshaping the building. Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
add an extra zero to that.
this is basically a re-design
NFW it's a couple of weeks, whatever your hourly rate is (which sounds offensively low)
Seconding this - where are you that you're charging $50/hour? My time was billed at more than that as a drafter fresh out of undergrad. Even in small single family renovations I've never known a principal to bill less than $150-200.
People will treat you as well as you value yourself. Charge what you're worth.
I agree that your hourly rate is low. I'm a PA / PM and I'm billed out at $90 in an area where the cost of living is moderate (western Colorado).
As described, you're not making minor tweaks to a few drawing sheets, but partially redesigning the building. These changes, once you start them, may well require other modifications you haven't anticipated-- including potential impacts on structural and mechanical systems, among other things. Don't low-ball your fee and time here.
If they balk, walk.
I think the fee your proposing to charge the client is too low. As others have said this will involve more than just drafting up some changes.
Also your initial fee of $150K seems way too low. I'm not sure what area you're in so my numbers are approximate however . ..
36 units at say 700 sf each = 25,200 sf x $245 sf cost = $6,174,000 construction cost. 7% of that is around $432K - 80% of that would be an architectural fee of $345K.
Sounds like they've only taken through entitlements so far, though.
Good point.
SD: $69K
DD: $69K
CD: $120K
Bid: $18K
CA: $69K
In a perfect world, I would always try to get SD/Entitlements as a separate contract from DD-CA. At least in this part of the world (Southern California), Entitlements are always such a headache that you end up designing the damn building 5-6 times before you're done. And, gods help you if you do residential in a design review zone...
My partner an I went straight into running a firm recently soon after finishing uni so we were not sure how to charge at that time. I was wrong about the hourly rate, I should have said it should be about $150/h. I should also mention I'm based in Australia so my cost is in AUD. Thanks for the feedback though. I wasn't sure at this point what the value of 'redesign' would be. I appreciate all the feedback, you have really clarified things for me.
50/hr is friends and family endless changes rate.
120+ is more like it for a typical client.
Especially if you're one of the partners.
my friends and family rate is just booze.
You're Canadian, I thought your currency was booze and maple syrup.
I get my maple syrup as bribe from the contractors. (true story)
My grandfather used to have bottles of maple syrup labeled with his company name and send them to customers for Christmas.
I wouldn't even do friends & family at $50 - If I like 'em that much I'd just do it for free.
Who was it on here that said they charge more for friends and family? I totally get that.
citizen, that sounds like something Miles would say.
edit: turns out it was Proto back in the glorious summer of 2017. https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150015827/how-much-to-charge-family
I assumed it was Miles. Good research!