I've been working as an architect for the past 2 years and I've come to an understanding that I'm not great at creating concepts and creative works, which is very much needed as an architect. But I can say I'm good at the stages that comes after the conceptual development,like design problem solving, working drawings, shop drawings etc. and also on the project management side(by occasionally working with the senior project manager).
So, What field/post can I pursue or look forward to work (or further studies) since I'm really bad at the creative side. Looking forward to hearing suggestions from an experienced personnel. Thank you so much!
Non Sequitur
Feb 6, 18 10:02 am
Excellent and intelligent detailing is more important in the long run than creative flair. If you like CD and CA, stick to it. New grunts will come and go and provide the inexpensive design you'll take and complete buildings.
What field? Specifications or building enveloppe consultant looks like a good direction.
randomised
Feb 6, 18 10:32 am
Most architects are not great at creating concepts and creative works, simply look around you.
JLC-1
Feb 6, 18 10:47 am
That's the way it always has been, you were supposed to learn how things get built in school, then practice with an architect to see how the ideas came to be; now it's all upside down, schools don't teach you anything about building, but "celebrate" your creation of impossible utopias than can't even be built, and you get to work with all the wrong "ideas" in your head, this is a career, you start slow, then pick-up the pace until you set the pace, can't go around it....
shellarchitect
Feb 6, 18 11:49 am
it's unfortunate that schools focus so much on design and virtually ignore that other 95% of what it takes to actually get a building built.
seems like "project architect" would be the next title for you to aspire to
citizen
Feb 6, 18 3:46 pm
Completely agree with all of the above. You have the marketable skills, and owe no apology for that.
Shell is right about the over-emphasis on conceptual work to the exclusion of other, very critical abilities. This is visible all over Archinect as well. The abundance of under-thought headlines by some of the fanboy/girl bloggers linking to the latest rendering or utterance by [insert Starchitect name here] reveals much.
Some of the best content here (to me) is war stories from folks who know whereof they speak... about detailing, field conditions, entitlements, clients, office management, local culture, etcetera.
thatsthat
Feb 6, 18 3:52 pm
I'm not sure exactly how you came to this realization, but only 2 years in... chances are you're still going through the growing pains of figuring out how to do your job. To echo what others have said, keep growing, keep learning, and don't let the BS get you down. You'll be able to create some truly awesome work (and hopefully make clients very happy) if you are able to complete projects on time, on budget, and well made.
Some of the best content here (to me) is war stories from folks who know whereof they speak... about detailing, field conditions, entitlements, clients, office management, local culture, etcetera.
I had a Construction Documents class in undergrad where the lecture component was solely a project manager from a nearby bigger city firm who would come and tell his war stories. Showed us pictures of projects where the contractor screwed up a flashing detail, interior elevation in a room, exit stair, etc., because the documents weren't clear enough. He talked about how much money it was costing the client and how they approached fixing the issue. It was a huge eye-opener.
JLC-1
Feb 6, 18 4:10 pm
I had a studio teacher that said nobody would produce architecture before they turn 40, we used to hate him, until we realized he was right.
Miles Jaffe
Feb 6, 18 4:59 pm
Define "bad at the creative side".
There is often more creativity involved in getting something built than there is in the conception of the project.
As mentioned above, there are a whole lot of architects who think they are creative geniuses but who couldn't design their way out of a paper bag. Some of them have won the Pritzker.
citizen
Feb 6, 18 5:54 pm
^ Well-stated.
thatsthat
Feb 7, 18 10:37 am
There is often more creativity involved in getting something built than there is in the conception of the project.
thatsthat
Feb 7, 18 11:32 am
Meant to say about ^^ quote is that this is so true! I've worked with "creatives" before that spend all day designing that couldn't go out in the field and come up with solutions on the spot like some "uncreative" project managers I've worked with.
Peter Normand
Feb 7, 18 2:51 pm
The Creatives also don't like things like building codes.
Miles Jaffe
Feb 7, 18 3:07 pm
We only hate the stupid ones.
Peter Normand
Feb 7, 18 3:40 pm
What Stupid Building codes do you hate?
joseffischer
Feb 7, 18 5:22 pm
I don't know that I 'hate' any, but I really like the idea that Americans have gotten so fat that we had to change the clearance requirement of handrails from 1.5" to 2.25" in the NFPA 101 - 2012 code, but I don't like the fact that this directly conflicts with the IBC 2012 code. Nor do I like that different states, and even different counties/cities, use different code editions.
Agree wholeheartedly with the others above. Pretty picture people are a dime a dozen in this field, contrary to the impression given in most architecture schools. If you enjoy doing the stuff downstream from design phase, stick with it. You will be more valuable in the long run. And if you become interested in management of construction, or in the business side of development (the client side) you can be assured that the remuneration will be much better than the would-be stararchitects you work with, most of whom will never come close to fulfilling their wildly unrealistic dreams
OneLostArchitect
Feb 6, 18 7:21 pm
have you seen half the shit that gets built? I’ve feel the same way about myself... I’m not as creative as my peers, but I’m 100 percent damn sure I can design better than most of the shit out there.
BulgarBlogger
Feb 6, 18 7:39 pm
What do you mean by “bad”?
Have you wver thought that maybe the way you choose to express your creaticity does not coincide with you boss’s or your firm’s?
Case in point: if you like modern design, but you firm is very traditional, or if your clientelle are used to symmetry and you like to design with assymetry, perhaps you need to try to work at a place that is more open to your personal preference. There are people out there who copy and paste from Pinterest all day long and if something doesn’t match that style, you will never be able to showcase your talent!
l3wis
Feb 7, 18 10:32 am
the thread thumbnail made me crack up.
Thayer-D
Feb 7, 18 11:00 am
It would be great if schools actually focused on design as understood for thousands of years. Instead, those 'concepts' are actually polemics that have very little to do with how a finished building will actually be experienced. My guess is if you have a practical bent to solving problems, you'd actually be good at aesthetics as most people appreciate them, I don't know, but I'm guessing. Try working for a builder making their work beautiful. It's incredibly satisfying to make people happy, while you earn your keep. Good luck!
James Aleister Barcelona
Feb 7, 18 12:21 pm
Become a BIM technician, or a Production manager, or a Project/Construction Manager and focus on Value Engineering, Specifications, Construction Drawings, etc. I sense you're more keen to the execution of a design or project, rather than the conceptual / creative process of it. And I agree with all the comments that it's something that's truly lacking in academe today. Also, starchitects are nothing without the people who do the rigorous work of being able to interpret and transform their designs to construction standards and feasibility.
JLC-1
Feb 7, 18 12:30 pm
^^^^ amen to this; OP, specialize in waterproofing and curtain walls and you will have Frank Gehry eating from your palm.
citizen
Feb 7, 18 1:17 pm
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that design only applies to big-picture concept stuff.
Windows, floor patterns, wall sections, waterproofing, casework, etcetera, etcetera.... are all important objects of design at various scales.
BulgarBlogger
Feb 7, 18 1:42 pm
keep telling youself that doors and windows are “design” too- its therapeutic until you realize that you cant fart without running your decisions through the design director and once you do, everything changes..you’ll realize that you actually don’t have much choice at the end of the of the day- your hands are the Design Director’s prosthetics. Once “your pass” of the door and window details is approved by the Design Director, your task becomes technical- so at the end of the day- you’re no doing any design. You are just executing someone else’s design.
citizen
Feb 7, 18 2:07 pm
^ As narrowly defined in some huge firms, quite possibly.
But in the rest of the world, not at all. Enjoy designing on a range of scales.
3tk
Feb 7, 18 2:30 pm
2 yrs is a relatively short time - but long enough to realize that the current place might not be the best fit. Design is wide ranging, and early in a career it might be more of an indication that the fit is wrong. That being said a large part of the profession centers on DD onward. Being able to find construction solutions to achieve the core design intent is a large portion of a good firm's work. It's a valuable skill set that is less obvious and takes quite some time to develop.
Don't get too hopped up on PMing - it's another ball game entirely and the good PM skill sets are (again) less obvious and come from experience. Everyone's in a rush to say they want to be PMs without understanding the full consequences.
randomised
Feb 7, 18 3:12 pm
THAT'S GOLD JERRY, GOLD!!!
x-jla
Feb 7, 18 5:26 pm
There is value in every niche of the field of building stuff...the key is to find/realize that value and meaning in what you do, and do it to your best abilities. Too many people these days equate recognition with success. Recognition is external...success is internal. If you are happy with what you do, and people pay you to do it, then that’s all you need.
Le Courvoisier
Feb 7, 18 5:51 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen, please don't post on Archinect while under the influence of illicit drugs.
JLC-1
Feb 7, 18 7:02 pm
I think it's more the lack of legal (mental) drugs
Non Sequitur
Feb 7, 18 5:53 pm
This discussion has certainly made this snowstorm day interesting.
Non Sequitur
Feb 7, 18 6:45 pm
You seriously think those drawings are good? You have some serious issues.
Non Sequitur
Feb 7, 18 11:20 pm
no, it literally has no merit.
Non Sequitur
Feb 8, 18 11:44 am
The nice thing about reality is that it's true regardless of what you believe.... but, just because I had to use the scanner for work reasons, below is a 15-second sketch I made while on the phone with my contractor earlier this morning. It's a musing of a design idea I'm trying to work into a large painting for my home. Savvy observants will notice the use of two different fountain pens as well as 6B graphite.
Non Sequitur
Feb 8, 18 12:06 pm
it's a design sketch, something you have no grasp of. Don't hurt yourself, I know thinking is not a strength of yours.
AdrianFGA
Feb 7, 18 7:41 pm
since I'm really bad at the creative side.
Then you might have what it takes to be an excellent project architect. The core design, in most cases, is performed by the senior staff / directors / principals anyway. If you leave that out, then there is more creativity and perhaps more insight in a telephone directory than your average run-of-the-mill architectural job. The project needs to be completed in time, within budget, and with the least amount of snags of any nature (legal, technical, etc) so you need to be organised, able to process and manage vast amounts of tedious data, be a good communicator, have technical skills, familiarity with various fabrication or manufacturing processes, know what to do on a construction site, be good at budgeting, economics, and particularly good at construction law / contract administration, not to mention knowledge of a myriad of building regulations, codes, standards, and then some. So, yeah, creativity is perhaps overrated, and if I were you, I wouldn't worry one bit about it.
archi_dude
Feb 7, 18 9:26 pm
All those skills and a national average salary of 70k. Bugger out now.
geezertect
Feb 8, 18 8:11 am
Yup. Sell those skills in a different corner of the building industry where the compensation isn't an embarrassment.
Volunteer
Feb 8, 18 2:06 pm
Don't sell yourself short. being 'creative' does not mean designing some bizarre pile of shit from the ground up that has no historical context, does not fit the site, does not address the climate, ignores the specified function of the building, and pays no attention to the needs of the client.
I've been working as an architect for the past 2 years and I've come to an understanding that I'm not great at creating concepts and creative works, which is very much needed as an architect. But I can say I'm good at the stages that comes after the conceptual development,like design problem solving, working drawings, shop drawings etc. and also on the project management side(by occasionally working with the senior project manager).
So, What field/post can I pursue or look forward to work (or further studies) since I'm really bad at the creative side. Looking forward to hearing suggestions from an experienced personnel. Thank you so much!
Excellent and intelligent detailing is more important in the long run than creative flair. If you like CD and CA, stick to it. New grunts will come and go and provide the inexpensive design you'll take and complete buildings.
What field? Specifications or building enveloppe consultant looks like a good direction.
Most architects are not great at creating concepts and creative works, simply look around you.
That's the way it always has been, you were supposed to learn how things get built in school, then practice with an architect to see how the ideas came to be; now it's all upside down, schools don't teach you anything about building, but "celebrate" your creation of impossible utopias than can't even be built, and you get to work with all the wrong "ideas" in your head, this is a career, you start slow, then pick-up the pace until you set the pace, can't go around it....
it's unfortunate that schools focus so much on design and virtually ignore that other 95% of what it takes to actually get a building built.
seems like "project architect" would be the next title for you to aspire to
Completely agree with all of the above. You have the marketable skills, and owe no apology for that.
Shell is right about the over-emphasis on conceptual work to the exclusion of other, very critical abilities. This is visible all over Archinect as well. The abundance of under-thought headlines by some of the fanboy/girl bloggers linking to the latest rendering or utterance by [insert Starchitect name here] reveals much.
Some of the best content here (to me) is war stories from folks who know whereof they speak... about detailing, field conditions, entitlements, clients, office management, local culture, etcetera.
I'm not sure exactly how you came to this realization, but only 2 years in... chances are you're still going through the growing pains of figuring out how to do your job. To echo what others have said, keep growing, keep learning, and don't let the BS get you down. You'll be able to create some truly awesome work (and hopefully make clients very happy) if you are able to complete projects on time, on budget, and well made.
Some of the best content here (to me) is war stories from folks who know whereof they speak... about detailing, field conditions, entitlements, clients, office management, local culture, etcetera.
I had a Construction Documents class in undergrad where the lecture component was solely a project manager from a nearby bigger city firm who would come and tell his war stories. Showed us pictures of projects where the contractor screwed up a flashing detail, interior elevation in a room, exit stair, etc., because the documents weren't clear enough. He talked about how much money it was costing the client and how they approached fixing the issue. It was a huge eye-opener.
I had a studio teacher that said nobody would produce architecture before they turn 40, we used to hate him, until we realized he was right.
Define "bad at the creative side".
There is often more creativity involved in getting something built than there is in the conception of the project.
As mentioned above, there are a whole lot of architects who think they are creative geniuses but who couldn't design their way out of a paper bag. Some of them have won the Pritzker.
^ Well-stated.
There is often more creativity involved in getting something built than there is in the conception of the project.
Meant to say about ^^ quote is that this is so true! I've worked with "creatives" before that spend all day designing that couldn't go out in the field and come up with solutions on the spot like some "uncreative" project managers I've worked with.
The Creatives also don't like things like building codes.
We only hate the stupid ones.
What Stupid Building codes do you hate?
I don't know that I 'hate' any, but I really like the idea that Americans have gotten so fat that we had to change the clearance requirement of handrails from 1.5" to 2.25" in the NFPA 101 - 2012 code, but I don't like the fact that this directly conflicts with the IBC 2012 code. Nor do I like that different states, and even different counties/cities, use different code editions.
https://archinect.com/forum/thread/148916492/retarded-codes/
Agree wholeheartedly with the others above. Pretty picture people are a dime a dozen in this field, contrary to the impression given in most architecture schools. If you enjoy doing the stuff downstream from design phase, stick with it. You will be more valuable in the long run. And if you become interested in management of construction, or in the business side of development (the client side) you can be assured that the remuneration will be much better than the would-be stararchitects you work with, most of whom will never come close to fulfilling their wildly unrealistic dreams
have you seen half the shit that gets built? I’ve feel the same way about myself... I’m not as creative as my peers, but I’m 100 percent damn sure I can design better than most of the shit out there.
What do you mean by “bad”?
Have you wver thought that maybe the way you choose to express your creaticity does not coincide with you boss’s or your firm’s?
Case in point: if you like modern design, but you firm is very traditional, or if your clientelle are used to symmetry and you like to design with assymetry, perhaps you need to try to work at a place that is more open to your personal preference. There are people out there who copy and paste from Pinterest all day long and if something doesn’t match that style, you will never be able to showcase your talent!
the thread thumbnail made me crack up.
It would be great if schools actually focused on design as understood for thousands of years. Instead, those 'concepts' are actually polemics that have very little to do with how a finished building will actually be experienced. My guess is if you have a practical bent to solving problems, you'd actually be good at aesthetics as most people appreciate them, I don't know, but I'm guessing. Try working for a builder making their work beautiful. It's incredibly satisfying to make people happy, while you earn your keep. Good luck!
Become a BIM technician, or a Production manager, or a Project/Construction Manager and focus on Value Engineering, Specifications, Construction Drawings, etc. I sense you're more keen to the execution of a design or project, rather than the conceptual / creative process of it. And I agree with all the comments that it's something that's truly lacking in academe today. Also, starchitects are nothing without the people who do the rigorous work of being able to interpret and transform their designs to construction standards and feasibility.
^^^^ amen to this; OP, specialize in waterproofing and curtain walls and you will have Frank Gehry eating from your palm.
Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that design only applies to big-picture concept stuff.
Windows, floor patterns, wall sections, waterproofing, casework, etcetera, etcetera.... are all important objects of design at various scales.
keep telling youself that doors and windows are “design” too- its therapeutic until you realize that you cant fart without running your decisions through the design director and once you do, everything changes..you’ll realize that you actually don’t have much choice at the end of the of the day- your hands are the Design Director’s prosthetics. Once “your pass” of the door and window details is approved by the Design Director, your task becomes technical- so at the end of the day- you’re no doing any design. You are just executing someone else’s design.
^ As narrowly defined in some huge firms, quite possibly.
But in the rest of the world, not at all. Enjoy designing on a range of scales.
2 yrs is a relatively short time - but long enough to realize that the current place might not be the best fit. Design is wide ranging, and early in a career it might be more of an indication that the fit is wrong. That being said a large part of the profession centers on DD onward. Being able to find construction solutions to achieve the core design intent is a large portion of a good firm's work. It's a valuable skill set that is less obvious and takes quite some time to develop.
Don't get too hopped up on PMing - it's another ball game entirely and the good PM skill sets are (again) less obvious and come from experience. Everyone's in a rush to say they want to be PMs without understanding the full consequences.
THAT'S GOLD JERRY, GOLD!!!
There is value in every niche of the field of building stuff...the key is to find/realize that value and meaning in what you do, and do it to your best abilities. Too many people these days equate recognition with success. Recognition is external...success is internal. If you are happy with what you do, and people pay you to do it, then that’s all you need.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please don't post on Archinect while under the influence of illicit drugs.
I think it's more the lack of legal (mental) drugs
This discussion has certainly made this snowstorm day interesting.
You seriously think those drawings are good? You have some serious issues.
no, it literally has no merit.
The nice thing about reality is that it's true regardless of what you believe.... but, just because I had to use the scanner for work reasons, below is a 15-second sketch I made while on the phone with my contractor earlier this morning. It's a musing of a design idea I'm trying to work into a large painting for my home. Savvy observants will notice the use of two different fountain pens as well as 6B graphite.
it's a design sketch, something you have no grasp of. Don't hurt yourself, I know thinking is not a strength of yours.
since I'm really bad at the creative side.
Then you might have what it takes to be an excellent project architect. The core design, in most cases, is performed by the senior staff / directors / principals anyway. If you leave that out, then there is more creativity and perhaps more insight in a telephone directory than your average run-of-the-mill architectural job. The project needs to be completed in time, within budget, and with the least amount of snags of any nature (legal, technical, etc) so you need to be organised, able to process and manage vast amounts of tedious data, be a good communicator, have technical skills, familiarity with various fabrication or manufacturing processes, know what to do on a construction site, be good at budgeting, economics, and particularly good at construction law / contract administration, not to mention knowledge of a myriad of building regulations, codes, standards, and then some. So, yeah, creativity is perhaps overrated, and if I were you, I wouldn't worry one bit about it.
All those skills and a national average salary of 70k. Bugger out now.
Yup. Sell those skills in a different corner of the building industry where the compensation isn't an embarrassment.
Don't sell yourself short. being 'creative' does not mean designing some bizarre pile of shit from the ground up that has no historical context, does not fit the site, does not address the climate, ignores the specified function of the building, and pays no attention to the needs of the client.