I have learned that an architect is someone who can pull clients, nurse relationships, and answer emails/phone calls...
I swear only one partner at this firm does any designing... the rest is done by interns like me and clients after 50 billions meetings.
I am scared I am going to school for 2 more years then 3+ years to be licensed just to be a glorified salesman one day who spends 90% of their time doing the exact opposite of what I expected I would be doing when I started arch school.
get out no, do an MBA, retire in when you hit 40, then live out your architectural fantasies with you limitless cashflow and push some architects around.
any service oriented business in about sales, even doctors. if you broke your head with a hammer, you probably want to find the best brain surgeon; someone who is skilled and successful in selling his craft.
there is basically 3 main branch in any firm, ideally:
the rain maker: someone who gets the jobs, deal with clients, some design work if any.
the producers: someone who does the design, manage the production, deliverables.
the financier: someone who keep tap of fee negotiation, making sure architecture as a business is viable.
this does not mean everyone only does their own job and go home, in fact in most smaller firms, people wear multiple hats of the above 3 main branches.
this also means to be versatile in this business, you should have a good grasp of the responsibilities of each branch and excel at one or two.
how to gain that good grasp?
spend a year or 2 in each branch, by the 4-6th year figure out what which role you really want to play, 1, 2 or all 3.
Lika offers great advice. There's nothing wrong with playing second fiddle for a few years before you make the big push to follow your passion in the profession.
As for the salesmanship, you're still in school right? What do you do every time in studio when your professor comes to your desk? We're always selling something, just because we sell ideas doesn't make us any different from the guy out there at the corner hot dog stand. Your inquiry reminds me of my favorite quote from Philip Johnson...
"Architects are pretty much high-class whores. We can turn down projects the way they can turn down some clients, but we've both got to say yes to someone if we want to stay in business."
in one of stephen colbert's latest "word" segments, he uses the word, 'prostitunity' --- for when you are in a compromised position and must accept it and sell your services nonetheless, but at least it actually does benefit you in some way
i believe it is the word where he discusses the fact that at some parties in china, white people are being hired to stand around, mingle, be aloof and look white --- I think the segment is called, 'The White Stuff'
archgrad001: aside from the fact that your expectations apparently were way off base, you've learned some lessons that many never seem to learn. You have a reasonably accurate - but, by no means, universal - view of the profession. If that's not what you want, or can stomach, perhaps you should make a change while such change is relatively easy. Otherwise, you'll be setting yourself up for years of misery and dissatisfaction.
Because we serve clients who are investing huge sums of money in the buildings we design, practice is considerably more about commerce than art. Schools tend to insulate students from that fact and do a disservice to too many young people.
One final thought - you've drawn some pretty strong conclusions from a single internship. Not every firm reflects the characteristics you describe. You might benefit from work experience in 1 or 2 other places before you draw any final conclusions.
i think it would be very hard to avoid the relationship between business/design that archgrad001 describes. obviously i don't really know because i haven't been successful at it.
i spend my days either in the car, in meetings, or at my desk on the phone surrounded by stacks of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. once every couple of days get to find a roll of trace. (similarly, most of my computer time is spend in word or excel or just email, with limited opportunity to open sketchup, autocad, or revit.)
in order to get back into design, thinking about design, what i considered a "real" pursuit of architecture, i tried going back to grad school (after 12 yrs out), tried teaching, tried operating on my own.
ultimately, i'm right back on the same path i left before grad school. most would consider this success. (i'm a partner now.) but, if what you want is what archgrad001 wants, it takes determination, hard decisions, a willingness to forgo other seemingly desirable paths, and probably a little bit (a lot?) of coldness.
Thats the difference between architects and starchitects, one group has to sell 90% of the time, and the group gets invited to design whatever they want with zero effort.
also, a way to think of it is as a matter of shades and degrees
you may have to sell, it is unavoidable
and you may end up in compromising positions at times
but you do have some modicum of control over the degree to which and how you sell services and at what point you walk away
and those nuanced decisions will greatly effect the sort of clients and consultants you grow to work with over time
this is true if you switch firms until you find one whose approach you like
or if you stay where you are, as you deal with different clients and consultants, eventually you'll deal with people with whom your style and values align, and then you build on those relationships to extend their influence within the firm
as an example of setting one's own limits, my wife's career is much more difficult to find a job in than my own
so starting out, i knew that i could not stay where i was and build a career
in my mind, it is one thing to take a job intending for it to work out and it doesn't so you leave
it is another to go into it knowing that you will only be there two years but not tell anyone, they come to depend on you and are surprised when you leave -- especially in a tough economy -- and we were in the rust belt, so there were plenty of deserving people who would not have that job because i did
so i was upfront during interviews about my situation
it cost me some opportunities, but when i found a job, and as they increased my responsibilities, i had a clear conscience and there was no shock or bad blood when i left
it is a little thing and i'm sure didn't matter that much to anyone else, but it made it easier to look in the mirror and it seems these little moments, these shades and degrees, are about all the control over the situation you can hope to have
What I have learned from 2 years of school and an internship...
I have learned that an architect is someone who can pull clients, nurse relationships, and answer emails/phone calls...
I swear only one partner at this firm does any designing... the rest is done by interns like me and clients after 50 billions meetings.
I am scared I am going to school for 2 more years then 3+ years to be licensed just to be a glorified salesman one day who spends 90% of their time doing the exact opposite of what I expected I would be doing when I started arch school.
get out no, do an MBA, retire in when you hit 40, then live out your architectural fantasies with you limitless cashflow and push some architects around.
any service oriented business in about sales, even doctors. if you broke your head with a hammer, you probably want to find the best brain surgeon; someone who is skilled and successful in selling his craft.
there is basically 3 main branch in any firm, ideally:
the rain maker: someone who gets the jobs, deal with clients, some design work if any.
the producers: someone who does the design, manage the production, deliverables.
the financier: someone who keep tap of fee negotiation, making sure architecture as a business is viable.
this does not mean everyone only does their own job and go home, in fact in most smaller firms, people wear multiple hats of the above 3 main branches.
this also means to be versatile in this business, you should have a good grasp of the responsibilities of each branch and excel at one or two.
how to gain that good grasp?
spend a year or 2 in each branch, by the 4-6th year figure out what which role you really want to play, 1, 2 or all 3.
Lika offers great advice. There's nothing wrong with playing second fiddle for a few years before you make the big push to follow your passion in the profession.
As for the salesmanship, you're still in school right? What do you do every time in studio when your professor comes to your desk? We're always selling something, just because we sell ideas doesn't make us any different from the guy out there at the corner hot dog stand. Your inquiry reminds me of my favorite quote from Philip Johnson...
"Architects are pretty much high-class whores. We can turn down projects the way they can turn down some clients, but we've both got to say yes to someone if we want to stay in business."
i agree with LITS4FormZ
in one of stephen colbert's latest "word" segments, he uses the word, 'prostitunity' --- for when you are in a compromised position and must accept it and sell your services nonetheless, but at least it actually does benefit you in some way
i believe it is the word where he discusses the fact that at some parties in china, white people are being hired to stand around, mingle, be aloof and look white --- I think the segment is called, 'The White Stuff'
archgrad001: aside from the fact that your expectations apparently were way off base, you've learned some lessons that many never seem to learn. You have a reasonably accurate - but, by no means, universal - view of the profession. If that's not what you want, or can stomach, perhaps you should make a change while such change is relatively easy. Otherwise, you'll be setting yourself up for years of misery and dissatisfaction.
Because we serve clients who are investing huge sums of money in the buildings we design, practice is considerably more about commerce than art. Schools tend to insulate students from that fact and do a disservice to too many young people.
One final thought - you've drawn some pretty strong conclusions from a single internship. Not every firm reflects the characteristics you describe. You might benefit from work experience in 1 or 2 other places before you draw any final conclusions.
i think it would be very hard to avoid the relationship between business/design that archgrad001 describes. obviously i don't really know because i haven't been successful at it.
i spend my days either in the car, in meetings, or at my desk on the phone surrounded by stacks of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. once every couple of days get to find a roll of trace. (similarly, most of my computer time is spend in word or excel or just email, with limited opportunity to open sketchup, autocad, or revit.)
in order to get back into design, thinking about design, what i considered a "real" pursuit of architecture, i tried going back to grad school (after 12 yrs out), tried teaching, tried operating on my own.
ultimately, i'm right back on the same path i left before grad school. most would consider this success. (i'm a partner now.) but, if what you want is what archgrad001 wants, it takes determination, hard decisions, a willingness to forgo other seemingly desirable paths, and probably a little bit (a lot?) of coldness.
Thats the difference between architects and starchitects, one group has to sell 90% of the time, and the group gets invited to design whatever they want with zero effort.
also, a way to think of it is as a matter of shades and degrees
you may have to sell, it is unavoidable
and you may end up in compromising positions at times
but you do have some modicum of control over the degree to which and how you sell services and at what point you walk away
and those nuanced decisions will greatly effect the sort of clients and consultants you grow to work with over time
this is true if you switch firms until you find one whose approach you like
or if you stay where you are, as you deal with different clients and consultants, eventually you'll deal with people with whom your style and values align, and then you build on those relationships to extend their influence within the firm
as an example of setting one's own limits, my wife's career is much more difficult to find a job in than my own
so starting out, i knew that i could not stay where i was and build a career
in my mind, it is one thing to take a job intending for it to work out and it doesn't so you leave
it is another to go into it knowing that you will only be there two years but not tell anyone, they come to depend on you and are surprised when you leave -- especially in a tough economy -- and we were in the rust belt, so there were plenty of deserving people who would not have that job because i did
so i was upfront during interviews about my situation
it cost me some opportunities, but when i found a job, and as they increased my responsibilities, i had a clear conscience and there was no shock or bad blood when i left
it is a little thing and i'm sure didn't matter that much to anyone else, but it made it easier to look in the mirror and it seems these little moments, these shades and degrees, are about all the control over the situation you can hope to have
misery loves company.
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