Unless you can do 'fancy' web graphics or 'electronic' graphics or you have absolutely no porblem doing bus/car wrappers or designing crappy t-shirts...
Then the world of graphic design is pretty much dying quicker than architecture.
I envy musicians, generally and sometimes architects, because I am a landscape architect (designer) and often wish I could design buildings or at least be more involved in that type of design...while playing the guitar like jimi.
I envy musicians.I tried to play guitar but I gave up because it was so stressful to play the correct notes.I don't think I have the talent for music so yeah...
I am at heart a musician, architecture pays the bills. As far as envy is concerned, creativity as a profession is always going to be a hard life. Only the gifted chosen few will recieve recognition for their efforts.
The good news is, you can always be creative. You don't have to rely on the accolades and patronage of others to follow your muse. If you have an artistic bent, then do what you can to allow yourself the freedom to follow that path. You can be self fulfilled as an artist even if your art isn't fashionable or marketable.
I enjoy other types of design (graphic, web, motion graphics, etc.). Each has its merits. The big advantage to those are #1 speed - results can be seen quickly #2 the can reach a large number of people quickly as well #3 you get paid quickly (and better)
I'd disagree with you UG - I think graphics and industrial design has as much, if not more, impact on the world than architecture. Look at Apple, for an example. More people will see logos, packaging, etc., and base important decisions on those impressions.
The downside is that everything is easily disposable. That can be good, though, as you make something, enjoy its success, then make something new in a short period of time.
I do envy industrial designers because they always seemed to be much happier than other design disciplines and made sure you knew it too. Their studio culture was much more laid back and less competitive (very little in-fighting). They really could do whatever they wanted because there were no zoning, codes, etc to deal with.
However, I don't envy the current job market for new ID graduates or the process of establishing oneself in their profession.
It's very short-sighted to say that there are no codes for industrial designers. I work at an industrial design firm right now (as a graphic designer though), and definitely see that the people around me have to conform to codes. If you're doing housewares, there are codes that constrain what types of materials you can use, the size of detachable or operable pieces. If you're doing equipment of any type (my office does a lot of medical work) there are the codes from the relevant industry to adhere to. Actually I think the code work there can be more complicated, because they have to be aware of codes coming from a lot more sources. By comparison building codes are pretty reliable in terms of coming from the same agencies and dealing with the same things for every building, even if the requirements vary depending on location and size/type of building.
i would have to agree with copper, and i can't imagine more people don't realize this: the more connected to human scale the object, the more stringent the codes/requirements/tolerances. i can't even begin to count the number of times i have held in my hands an object that looked sexy, only to have the usability/weight etc be completely off. architecture is almost always forgiving in that regard. while i certainly would rather be designing objects than architecture, i certainly don't think it'd be easier.
one thing i really envy about most industrial design - at least the design and manufacturing groups are on the same team. i'm sure there are plenty of arguments about direction, marketing, etc. but at least you're not having to fight with someone you had no choice in picking (like in architecture). not sure the process is any quicker than building (in some ways), but there is a different kind of satisfaction doing an object than a space. not better or worse, just different.
"I'd disagree with you UG - I think graphics and industrial design has as much, if not more, impact on the world than architecture. Look at Apple, for an example. More people will see logos, packaging, etc., and base important decisions on those impressions."
Impact is one thing. Pay is another.
Graphic design use to be a $$$ business-- but hopeful graduates, people willing to 'work for free' and 'independent contractors' have severely eroded the pay expectation. And package design (and branding) is more in the real of marketing and advertising than it is pure graphic design.
Anyways, I was referring to "production" designers who typically produce large volumes of work-- publishing, traditional advertising and the like.
These use to be cushy jobs for designers because they paid a lot and typically required less than full-time employment.
ache - I am architectural 3d illustrator, and everywhere I did freelance they always treat me like an after-thought, like an extra that they can always replace, so they treat me like a dog, throwing me a bone whenever they like. Those architects, just care about their design, they do not care about other people's time, they don't understand that it takes time to produce nice quality 3d renderings, and take all the time they need to do their design until its too late. Then they blame me for not having nicer quality, they expect me to produce a 20 hour rendering in half a night. I seat there all day, modeling based on their floor plan, and almost always they never tell me that they are working on an update, they never give me updated floor plans and designs, they always waste my time, I really hate those architects! I wish I won a lottery so I could just walk away on one of their projects, and let them see that my job is also important, that they cannot really sell their project to the client their design without me.
I have always envied the way music is created and marketed in this age as a product. It is absolutely become something without material, such as records and cds. Musicians only have to record a song and it can be sold over and over again in physical nothingness but is something substantial to almost everyone. The cost for production of a creative product and the return on profit is amazing to me. Go GaGa!
it seems most people see where i was going... i feel the ability to 'create' in other creative fields is much easier than in architecture.. as mentioned above, a musician can simply record a song and try to sell it online.. if no one buys it, all they loose, is their time. but an architect cannot build buildings and try to sell them.. not unless they have wealth from other sources...
One of my friends got her bachelors in piano performance, while I got mine in architectural studies. Before she even graduated she made $36/hr working from home teaching piano, afterwards $40/hr, while I made a quarter of that making lattes because "grads with 4 year degrees don't have enough experience" to hire for architecture jobs.
Milwaukee - I know what you mean, thats how I got sucked into 3d rendering job in the first place, nobody would hire a recent grad from non-ivy school. Now I try to survive on freelance there and here, they usually treat me like crap in arch-firms because I am just a freaking renderer, and they do the "hard work"... and then they don't pay me for months... this economy sucks, this profession sucks, this life sucks...
I envy architects, I am 3d artist, they treat me like garbage...
Why do they treat you like garbage? who treats you like garbage?
perhaps you treat you like garbage.
If thats how you see yourself, then that is how you will be seen - people are always taking at thier own appraisal.
I used to be a 3D artist also at Rockstar Games, I worked my way out by getting an architecture degree - at a small private architecture school in San Diego(NewSchool of Architecture+Design) - during my last year, I transitioned my 3D artist skills into learning BIM/Revit and on the day I recieved my M.arch degree, I was hired at SOM performing production - sure, I did the occasional rendering(from Revit) but I was at least involved in the architectural work. What I am saying is that you can take your 3D artist skills, and learn BIM it will be easy, you will be able to see around corners, and over the horizon on ther architecture design - and you will be able to move from rendering into architecture.
rethinkit - I envy you, thats what I am trying to do now, to learn revit and try to transition to architecture full time. Maybe you are right that I have to step it up and be seen as a more important person, but from many years of experience I get the same kind of crap treatment from architects in various firms. They always delay work and expect me to use my magic wand to clean up everything and create final image that is a masterpiece, if it is not a masterpiece in the morning, then their faces turn sad and they just blame me, why is it that, and why is it this... blah blah blah...
10 minutes ago in this coffee house I am sitting - there was these two old construction managers and they were really going off on architects and thier renderings " this doesn't look at all like this fancy rendering" They were bad and I had to endure this for an hour. When I had my first architecture job, I used to get Sh**t from the PAs just like you. So I practiced my Revit skills and got hired at SOM strictly for architecture with BIM and not rendering and that ended that - until I got laid off - But I am back in the game now. But still that doesn't solve the credibility problem of renderings and those who create them. I picked up today's SF Chronicle and they had a rendering from SOM of a project near the ferry building.
rethinkit - sorry to hear that you got laid off, it happened to me to, in 2008 I got laid off and ever since then been struggling as a renderer. I think it happened to like 80% of us in the industry... Did you work on that SOM project?
Jul 11, 10 10:21 pm ·
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do you envy other types of designers?
fashion, graphics, etc... even fine arts, musicians...
do you ever feel if you were for say, a fashion designer, you might have more opportunities to express yourself through your design?
If I was a hair stylist, I'd see the results of my design work in 45 minutes.
Otherwise, no, I don't envy other designers.
Unless you can do 'fancy' web graphics or 'electronic' graphics or you have absolutely no porblem doing bus/car wrappers or designing crappy t-shirts...
Then the world of graphic design is pretty much dying quicker than architecture.
diversity and do it all.....touche'
I envy musicians, generally and sometimes architects, because I am a landscape architect (designer) and often wish I could design buildings or at least be more involved in that type of design...while playing the guitar like jimi.
I envy musicians.I tried to play guitar but I gave up because it was so stressful to play the correct notes.I don't think I have the talent for music so yeah...
I am at heart a musician, architecture pays the bills. As far as envy is concerned, creativity as a profession is always going to be a hard life. Only the gifted chosen few will recieve recognition for their efforts.
The good news is, you can always be creative. You don't have to rely on the accolades and patronage of others to follow your muse. If you have an artistic bent, then do what you can to allow yourself the freedom to follow that path. You can be self fulfilled as an artist even if your art isn't fashionable or marketable.
Sometimes I envy graphic designers as the working process is less complicated - less people could be involved and so on.
I enjoy other types of design (graphic, web, motion graphics, etc.). Each has its merits. The big advantage to those are #1 speed - results can be seen quickly #2 the can reach a large number of people quickly as well #3 you get paid quickly (and better)
I'd disagree with you UG - I think graphics and industrial design has as much, if not more, impact on the world than architecture. Look at Apple, for an example. More people will see logos, packaging, etc., and base important decisions on those impressions.
The downside is that everything is easily disposable. That can be good, though, as you make something, enjoy its success, then make something new in a short period of time.
I envy architects, I am 3d artist, they treat me like garbage...
I do envy industrial designers because they always seemed to be much happier than other design disciplines and made sure you knew it too. Their studio culture was much more laid back and less competitive (very little in-fighting). They really could do whatever they wanted because there were no zoning, codes, etc to deal with.
However, I don't envy the current job market for new ID graduates or the process of establishing oneself in their profession.
It's very short-sighted to say that there are no codes for industrial designers. I work at an industrial design firm right now (as a graphic designer though), and definitely see that the people around me have to conform to codes. If you're doing housewares, there are codes that constrain what types of materials you can use, the size of detachable or operable pieces. If you're doing equipment of any type (my office does a lot of medical work) there are the codes from the relevant industry to adhere to. Actually I think the code work there can be more complicated, because they have to be aware of codes coming from a lot more sources. By comparison building codes are pretty reliable in terms of coming from the same agencies and dealing with the same things for every building, even if the requirements vary depending on location and size/type of building.
i would have to agree with copper, and i can't imagine more people don't realize this: the more connected to human scale the object, the more stringent the codes/requirements/tolerances. i can't even begin to count the number of times i have held in my hands an object that looked sexy, only to have the usability/weight etc be completely off. architecture is almost always forgiving in that regard. while i certainly would rather be designing objects than architecture, i certainly don't think it'd be easier.
people are quick to complain more about an ergonomic chair rather than a building lacking natural light
one thing i really envy about most industrial design - at least the design and manufacturing groups are on the same team. i'm sure there are plenty of arguments about direction, marketing, etc. but at least you're not having to fight with someone you had no choice in picking (like in architecture). not sure the process is any quicker than building (in some ways), but there is a different kind of satisfaction doing an object than a space. not better or worse, just different.
"I'd disagree with you UG - I think graphics and industrial design has as much, if not more, impact on the world than architecture. Look at Apple, for an example. More people will see logos, packaging, etc., and base important decisions on those impressions."
Impact is one thing. Pay is another.
Graphic design use to be a $$$ business-- but hopeful graduates, people willing to 'work for free' and 'independent contractors' have severely eroded the pay expectation. And package design (and branding) is more in the real of marketing and advertising than it is pure graphic design.
Anyways, I was referring to "production" designers who typically produce large volumes of work-- publishing, traditional advertising and the like.
These use to be cushy jobs for designers because they paid a lot and typically required less than full-time employment.
zen maker:
can you elaborate on what your "3D artist" position is? (games? graphics? architecture?)
ache - I am architectural 3d illustrator, and everywhere I did freelance they always treat me like an after-thought, like an extra that they can always replace, so they treat me like a dog, throwing me a bone whenever they like. Those architects, just care about their design, they do not care about other people's time, they don't understand that it takes time to produce nice quality 3d renderings, and take all the time they need to do their design until its too late. Then they blame me for not having nicer quality, they expect me to produce a 20 hour rendering in half a night. I seat there all day, modeling based on their floor plan, and almost always they never tell me that they are working on an update, they never give me updated floor plans and designs, they always waste my time, I really hate those architects! I wish I won a lottery so I could just walk away on one of their projects, and let them see that my job is also important, that they cannot really sell their project to the client their design without me.
I see--thanks
but you went to arch school? or no?
Yes, I did, and I still want to become architect so I can inslave the renderers!
Rememebr, zen, to treat your renderers the way you wish you had been treated when you were one. Surely a koan exists that explains this ideal.
I have always envied the way music is created and marketed in this age as a product. It is absolutely become something without material, such as records and cds. Musicians only have to record a song and it can be sold over and over again in physical nothingness but is something substantial to almost everyone. The cost for production of a creative product and the return on profit is amazing to me. Go GaGa!
goat cheese ladies....are in fashion these days......
it seems most people see where i was going... i feel the ability to 'create' in other creative fields is much easier than in architecture.. as mentioned above, a musician can simply record a song and try to sell it online.. if no one buys it, all they loose, is their time. but an architect cannot build buildings and try to sell them.. not unless they have wealth from other sources...
One of my friends got her bachelors in piano performance, while I got mine in architectural studies. Before she even graduated she made $36/hr working from home teaching piano, afterwards $40/hr, while I made a quarter of that making lattes because "grads with 4 year degrees don't have enough experience" to hire for architecture jobs.
Milwaukee - I know what you mean, thats how I got sucked into 3d rendering job in the first place, nobody would hire a recent grad from non-ivy school. Now I try to survive on freelance there and here, they usually treat me like crap in arch-firms because I am just a freaking renderer, and they do the "hard work"... and then they don't pay me for months... this economy sucks, this profession sucks, this life sucks...
"grads with 4 year degrees don't have enough experience" to hire for architecture jobs."
That's utter bullshit,stupidity and ignorance!!!
In a booming economy, maybe. Now, I haven't talked to any firms that will even touch someone with only a 4 yr degree and no "experience".
Unless you have a family member, or friend of the family who works for a firm.
zen maker - enough of the poor me
I envy architects, I am 3d artist, they treat me like garbage...
Why do they treat you like garbage? who treats you like garbage?
perhaps you treat you like garbage.
If thats how you see yourself, then that is how you will be seen - people are always taking at thier own appraisal.
I used to be a 3D artist also at Rockstar Games, I worked my way out by getting an architecture degree - at a small private architecture school in San Diego(NewSchool of Architecture+Design) - during my last year, I transitioned my 3D artist skills into learning BIM/Revit and on the day I recieved my M.arch degree, I was hired at SOM performing production - sure, I did the occasional rendering(from Revit) but I was at least involved in the architectural work. What I am saying is that you can take your 3D artist skills, and learn BIM it will be easy, you will be able to see around corners, and over the horizon on ther architecture design - and you will be able to move from rendering into architecture.
But it's like the lady said "Respect yourself"
rethinkit - I envy you, thats what I am trying to do now, to learn revit and try to transition to architecture full time. Maybe you are right that I have to step it up and be seen as a more important person, but from many years of experience I get the same kind of crap treatment from architects in various firms. They always delay work and expect me to use my magic wand to clean up everything and create final image that is a masterpiece, if it is not a masterpiece in the morning, then their faces turn sad and they just blame me, why is it that, and why is it this... blah blah blah...
change to be happy
zen maker
10 minutes ago in this coffee house I am sitting - there was these two old construction managers and they were really going off on architects and thier renderings " this doesn't look at all like this fancy rendering" They were bad and I had to endure this for an hour. When I had my first architecture job, I used to get Sh**t from the PAs just like you. So I practiced my Revit skills and got hired at SOM strictly for architecture with BIM and not rendering and that ended that - until I got laid off - But I am back in the game now. But still that doesn't solve the credibility problem of renderings and those who create them. I picked up today's SF Chronicle and they had a rendering from SOM of a project near the ferry building.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/11/BADD1EC1IM.DTL
jeez even Michelangelo didn't get respect from the pope
rethinkit - sorry to hear that you got laid off, it happened to me to, in 2008 I got laid off and ever since then been struggling as a renderer. I think it happened to like 80% of us in the industry... Did you work on that SOM project?
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