I haven't worked for months, but recently someone asked me to design their family's dream home. It's a potential to make decent money and could be an excellent addition to my portfolio. There are problems however.
Here's the first red flag. They don't seem to understand what an architect is, or what design means. I'm told things about how many bedrooms etc.. but the questions I ask about how they live and their practical needs are dodged. I'm often being sent links to homes that they like ( picture the most god awful Miami drug dealer style McMansion ). Ok, I'm sure most of us meet these kinds of clients. They also want just permit drawings and tell me "they'll take care of the rest".
The second: They have decided already on how to pay me, a per square foot price, the larger the home, the more it costs them, and therefore no motivation to put any thought into the design, but to add more double garages. I haven't agreed to this, but they don't seem open to the normal ideas of hourly pay, or a percentage of the construction budget. Since when does the client decide on your methods of pay?
The third: the son ( representing the family on his own ) asked me to sketch my ideas at the first meeting. This is still without agreeing on how to pay me. Ridiculous right?
The fourth: They are constantly delaying a second meeting, and have not even invited me to the property yet. Every phone call I get is another delay.
I can imagine people would suggest to walk away from the project, but without income in many months I wonder if I should hold out. Are these typical clients, or particularly bad?
Should I offer an ultimatum? Ask for a retainer and tell them I'm working on my terms, otherwise I walk away?
What other nightmare stories are out there? Am I over reacting, or am I a sucker?
Maybe you could point them to articles which point up the fact that these McMansions are now out of fashion, as fashion seems to be their only aesthetic concern.
That said, bad taste is usually chronic, and incurable. But if you need the money, do the best you can.
What kind of professional experience do you have? It sounds to me like you don't know even the basics of running a practice, how to interact with clients, how to negotiate fees and contract terms with a client, etc. The problem is not the client here; it's the fact that you seem to lack some basic professional skills. I say this in the most respectful way possible. They need you, as a professional offering your design services to them, to explain the entire process to them and guide them through the process and if necessary negotiate the terms of the contract. If I was in your shoes, I'd pick up a book on professional practice and read up fast, replicate some draft contracts that protect your interests and limit your own liability, and grow a bit of a backbone in this client relationship. Sorry to sound harsh, but unless you act and perform professionally, they're going to assume that you are unqualified to perform a job for them. Good luck...
They are running the show, and for many reasons, I would not walk, but run away from this. It will be nothing but nightmares for them and you. I agree with FP.
if you do proceed with the project (yikes), i suggest:
1. moving the project as fast as possible to minimize that kind of client's (disengaged group with a point person) tendency to noodle around and constantly revisit decisions.
2. setup your contract with milestones that include drawing packages that are signed-off such that client changes can be billed as hourly additional services.
3. get a good retainer.
4. bill consistently & on-time.
5. DO NOT LET THE PROJECT GET AHEAD OF THE FEE YOU'VE RECEIVED.
Jun 14, 11 11:56 am ·
·
Well, since you have the time, I would suggest designing exactly what you would propose for them based on their basic criteria (# of rooms, stories, etc) irrespective of their taste.
Presumably, they'll gasp and then it will be easy to mutually part ways (or maybe they will like and everything will somehow work, maybe). But at least you will have begun to define yourself as a designer (while adding a project to your portfolio that you are comfortable with even if it remains unbuilt). Keep in mind that even most successful architects have stacks of projects that they worked on but never materialised for whatever reasons (artistic differences with client, financing, personality conflicts, etc.)
Design is a bit like writing. Not everything that a writer scribbles down will be published nor will he be paid for it. But it all does quietly add up to shape an individual as a professional. After all, that's why it is called practicing architecture.
On the other hand, if the project somehow moves forward, then good luck. You are going to need it, yo!
I agree with FP and Taliesin here, Chris. Your prospective clients are behaving a little oddly but well within the range of behavior for inexperienced clients. They need someone with experience and knowledge of the process.
You're new at this, which we all are/were at some point. There's no shame in that whatsoever. But it can come around to bite you in the ass, and badly. The best-case coming from the scenario you describe is months (if not longer) of work and meetings where not much gets accomplished, little is definitely agreed upon, and fees are slowly paid, if at all. The worst case ends with you defending yourself from a lawsuit.
It's their dream home not yours so if they send you a picture of something...you do it. It's not like you are a well known architect who sells their design style but it seems like they are just one of those people that want the typical house....and frankly i would just give it to them.
I think either handsomeca$h or poop have the right idea with this. Put together a quicky contract (explain the proper way to draw up a contract, but if they for some reason still want it by area, do it) and draw up a floor plan and a few elevations. Eventually you or they are going to take the drawings to a builder anyway. They probably could just go to a builder in the first place, but for some reason they want to hire you. Run with it. What do you have to lose right now?
There are so many comments I need to make but don't have the time. First of all - make it work for you. Some clients need clear delineations of where your responsibilities lie as an architect. If this is their dream home ask them if they would be interested in visiting homes (chosen by you) which may be middle of the road between their values and yours.
When you are starting a business most of the value is in the experience and not necessarily in the financial gain, but ultimately, I agree, we all have to pay our bills.
I would suggest to be open to their values - your values may not matter to them and they are the ones that are paying for and going to live in it.
Now in regards to your interaction with them - be crystal clear. The goal of your services should be to accommodate thier needs (since they are paying you for your time) but you cannot do your job if there aren't protocols and formalities in place which clarify the extent of both parties interaction.
It may very well be that they don't understand your capabilities as an architect. Maybe they want you to draft their ideas in which case you can (since you need the $$$) charge them per square foot (since that is how they expect to pay). If you think it's going to take you 2 months at 40 hrs per week to draft a 3,500 SQFT home and you want to earn $30/hr this would be $2.75/SQFT, you can reverse engineer the math. (note the billing advice on the posts above). This method of payment is as good as any - it is relative to what you want to earn at the end of the project. Now if you lack experience you may want to reach out (like you are doing on this forum) and ask other architects which have done similar projects what their costs/profits have been for similar projects. Based on this information you will be able to inform your client of why you are charging them "X" and what the deliverables are , i.e. - plans, sections, elevations, revisions based on city plan checkers, revisions based on owner changes, etc.......I cannot stress enough to be as clear as necessary to be profitable. Keep in mind that this level of clarity will only make you look professional and capable. Good luck and make money - do not work for free.
I was mining the old posts for gems the other day. I think this one from Quizzical about starting an office is a good fit (hopefully they don't mind my quoting their old post)
Start as you mean to go forward. Don't just take any crap work that comes your way simply for cash flow purposes. chase work you really want. Scut work diverts you from what you do best and builds your reputation in unhelpful ways. Crappy clients will suck the life out of you. this advice assumes a certain economic "staying power" -- starting on a shoestring is tough and may cause you to head down a path that will be difficult to shake later on. if you can, build up some significant economic reserves before you walk off the plank. Good luck.
If you do take this project you need to be in charge, not dictating the design, but definitely fee schedule, deadlines, and client responsibilities etc. If you are not in control this sounds like a nightmare project where you work through an "interpreter" while the decisions are made by a committee you have no access to.
If you decide to go for it Michael Malone has an interesting breakdown of the process of designing a home. He breaks his fees out different ways for different parts of the project and has a sample of his contract. Has anyone else read this book? I don't have a lot of experience to compare against his ideas, but he is very forthcoming about how he runs a residential project. http://www.amazon.com/Architects-Guide-Residential-Design/dp/0071605630
Thanks all. I knew a post like this would open up a flood of comments.
FP you're right, and not being harsh. I don't know a thing about professional practice as I'm pretty much right out of school. And school didn't do much to prepare me for the real world.
As for Tectonic, the reverse engineering of the math to accomodate them puts things into perspective. They want a home much larger, and the square footage price they asked for was so incredibly low. In fact it looks like they want a luxury home done at slave labour design costs.
I've since told them I'm not working without a retainer. I haven't done any work for them yet ( mostly because of their delays ) so I haven't wasted any effort. I also won't start anything without a contract.
I decided to smarten up and give them options as to how the project moves ahead, tell them nothing is being done without a retainer and given them options for payment. They have yet to respond ( just sent the e-mail yesterday ) but the ball is in their court.
On the one hand like won and done williams says, I've got nothing to loose. But on the other I don't feel like getting myself into a headache.
if they just want a mc mansion let em do it on their own. you'll only be disheartened by the whole process. the world is full of home builders who would design their dream clusterfuck for them for free if they have the opportunity to build it. fire your potential client now!
You were right to think there were red flags, and ask for advice.
The type of client you're describing is pretty classic and I'd venture to bet that those of us with longer career histories have each come across identical clients at least once. (And some of us have certainly ended up burned!) It's a shame your brush with these types has happened at a point where you don't have much experience yet. But good for you to be wary.
My advice - which is part of what I do to evaluate each potential client I come across - is to envision the worst possible outcome that is conceivably likely. With many clients, you have references to help guide you; you have outside clues to their character (are they prominent local businesspeople with a reputation to protect? Is there a board that will oversee their decisions? Have they ever sued anyone in the past, for any reason? etc etc); plus you have the character clues that they themselves show. In your case you only have the latter.
These people have already shown bad character to you. In this case unfortunately I think the worst of all possible scenarios bears envisioning: you do hours and hours and hours of labor for them; they argue over every bill, which is very emotionally draining; ultimately the walk away having paid nothing, and with only the hope of legal means to recover your pay. (The even worse ending is that they walk off with your rudimentary unfinished plans and build it anyway.)
So - imagine that scenario, 1 year from now. Now: if all that happens, at the end of it, will you be ok with having taken the risk? Do you have a means to live without any money at all from these people? It's a legitimate question - even knowing that this is a possible outcome, some architects would still take the job - they may just want experience, any kind of experience; they may have enough money that they don't need to ever get paid; they may personally be risk-takers. It's up to you. But if you do take the job, allow that worst-case scenario to help you protect yourself. Get a contract written (AND SIGNED) BEFORE starting any work that will help immunize you against this possible outcome. Get that retainer in advance, etc. etc. If you protect yourself, and keep yourself ready to deal with the worst possible outcome (just in case), and don't get too emotionally invested (just in case), I think it could be a good learning experience for someone like you. (Even if all it does is educate you about bad clients! That's worthwhile experience as well - we all have to go through it at some point.)
Also - even the very best clients sometimes stick you with an unpaid final bill. I've seen it happen so many times it no longer shocks me (and from all types of clients, too!). I am still working out the best way to deal with / prevent that scenario. Not getting paid is kind of a staple problem with this industry.
like many alluding here, you need to write a contract and explain it to your clients. otherwise the blind is leading the blind, there are a lot of obstacles on the road and that pairing is not recommended. it is very important for beginning architects and designers to know that the biggest part of this type of work is negotiate, secure payments, clarify process and deliver what has been discussed and put a price tag on them. under the umbrella of architectural work, there are 'many' parts an architect is qualified and given authority to deliver. before you become the authority and the responsible person for design, you must build that relationship with the clients first and earn their trust in you. this is specially a common condition in residential work. be little patient and try to build up on that relationship. if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. move on and try to find other projects.
Good point Orhan. OP - it occurs to me that you might benefit from a quick crash course in contract documents, project planning, and architect-client relationships - and you're in luck, because there already exists such a thing -
The ARE exam on CDs really covers this stuff in depth, and I recommend you read the pertinent chapters in a test prep book (like Ballast, or Kaplan) which can likely be found at your local AIA. The chapters will take at most a couple of days to read through and should give you a good perspective on best practices for starting out projects. (When I took the exam I was bummed that I hadn't already learned that stuff the proper way - instead learning ad hoc from years of practice.) The great thing about the test prep is that it's a sort of summarized, quick-read version that will get you grounded in the essentials without wasting your time on unnecessary info.
I also recommend the Architect's Handbook To Professional Practice, which you should invest in immediately.
manta really good point... chris-chitect... you could check out the areforum.org...
its generally a test prep site, but once you sign up, you'll have access to their FTP server which hosts a bunch of really good information, including contracts...
Jun 15, 11 4:22 pm ·
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My first solo project and problems before I've even started
I haven't worked for months, but recently someone asked me to design their family's dream home. It's a potential to make decent money and could be an excellent addition to my portfolio. There are problems however.
Here's the first red flag. They don't seem to understand what an architect is, or what design means. I'm told things about how many bedrooms etc.. but the questions I ask about how they live and their practical needs are dodged. I'm often being sent links to homes that they like ( picture the most god awful Miami drug dealer style McMansion ). Ok, I'm sure most of us meet these kinds of clients. They also want just permit drawings and tell me "they'll take care of the rest".
The second: They have decided already on how to pay me, a per square foot price, the larger the home, the more it costs them, and therefore no motivation to put any thought into the design, but to add more double garages. I haven't agreed to this, but they don't seem open to the normal ideas of hourly pay, or a percentage of the construction budget. Since when does the client decide on your methods of pay?
The third: the son ( representing the family on his own ) asked me to sketch my ideas at the first meeting. This is still without agreeing on how to pay me. Ridiculous right?
The fourth: They are constantly delaying a second meeting, and have not even invited me to the property yet. Every phone call I get is another delay.
I can imagine people would suggest to walk away from the project, but without income in many months I wonder if I should hold out. Are these typical clients, or particularly bad?
Should I offer an ultimatum? Ask for a retainer and tell them I'm working on my terms, otherwise I walk away?
What other nightmare stories are out there? Am I over reacting, or am I a sucker?
Maybe you could point them to articles which point up the fact that these McMansions are now out of fashion, as fashion seems to be their only aesthetic concern.
That said, bad taste is usually chronic, and incurable. But if you need the money, do the best you can.
What kind of professional experience do you have? It sounds to me like you don't know even the basics of running a practice, how to interact with clients, how to negotiate fees and contract terms with a client, etc. The problem is not the client here; it's the fact that you seem to lack some basic professional skills. I say this in the most respectful way possible. They need you, as a professional offering your design services to them, to explain the entire process to them and guide them through the process and if necessary negotiate the terms of the contract. If I was in your shoes, I'd pick up a book on professional practice and read up fast, replicate some draft contracts that protect your interests and limit your own liability, and grow a bit of a backbone in this client relationship. Sorry to sound harsh, but unless you act and perform professionally, they're going to assume that you are unqualified to perform a job for them. Good luck...
They are running the show, and for many reasons, I would not walk, but run away from this. It will be nothing but nightmares for them and you. I agree with FP.
if you do proceed with the project (yikes), i suggest:
1. moving the project as fast as possible to minimize that kind of client's (disengaged group with a point person) tendency to noodle around and constantly revisit decisions.
2. setup your contract with milestones that include drawing packages that are signed-off such that client changes can be billed as hourly additional services.
3. get a good retainer.
4. bill consistently & on-time.
5. DO NOT LET THE PROJECT GET AHEAD OF THE FEE YOU'VE RECEIVED.
Well, since you have the time, I would suggest designing exactly what you would propose for them based on their basic criteria (# of rooms, stories, etc) irrespective of their taste.
Presumably, they'll gasp and then it will be easy to mutually part ways (or maybe they will like and everything will somehow work, maybe). But at least you will have begun to define yourself as a designer (while adding a project to your portfolio that you are comfortable with even if it remains unbuilt). Keep in mind that even most successful architects have stacks of projects that they worked on but never materialised for whatever reasons (artistic differences with client, financing, personality conflicts, etc.)
Design is a bit like writing. Not everything that a writer scribbles down will be published nor will he be paid for it. But it all does quietly add up to shape an individual as a professional. After all, that's why it is called practicing architecture.
On the other hand, if the project somehow moves forward, then good luck. You are going to need it, yo!
I agree with FP and Taliesin here, Chris. Your prospective clients are behaving a little oddly but well within the range of behavior for inexperienced clients. They need someone with experience and knowledge of the process.
You're new at this, which we all are/were at some point. There's no shame in that whatsoever. But it can come around to bite you in the ass, and badly. The best-case coming from the scenario you describe is months (if not longer) of work and meetings where not much gets accomplished, little is definitely agreed upon, and fees are slowly paid, if at all. The worst case ends with you defending yourself from a lawsuit.
I say: run.
It's their dream home not yours so if they send you a picture of something...you do it. It's not like you are a well known architect who sells their design style but it seems like they are just one of those people that want the typical house....and frankly i would just give it to them.
Doing houses like that paid for my school.
I think either handsomeca$h or poop have the right idea with this. Put together a quicky contract (explain the proper way to draw up a contract, but if they for some reason still want it by area, do it) and draw up a floor plan and a few elevations. Eventually you or they are going to take the drawings to a builder anyway. They probably could just go to a builder in the first place, but for some reason they want to hire you. Run with it. What do you have to lose right now?
chris-chitect,
There are so many comments I need to make but don't have the time. First of all - make it work for you. Some clients need clear delineations of where your responsibilities lie as an architect. If this is their dream home ask them if they would be interested in visiting homes (chosen by you) which may be middle of the road between their values and yours.
When you are starting a business most of the value is in the experience and not necessarily in the financial gain, but ultimately, I agree, we all have to pay our bills.
I would suggest to be open to their values - your values may not matter to them and they are the ones that are paying for and going to live in it.
Now in regards to your interaction with them - be crystal clear. The goal of your services should be to accommodate thier needs (since they are paying you for your time) but you cannot do your job if there aren't protocols and formalities in place which clarify the extent of both parties interaction.
It may very well be that they don't understand your capabilities as an architect. Maybe they want you to draft their ideas in which case you can (since you need the $$$) charge them per square foot (since that is how they expect to pay). If you think it's going to take you 2 months at 40 hrs per week to draft a 3,500 SQFT home and you want to earn $30/hr this would be $2.75/SQFT, you can reverse engineer the math. (note the billing advice on the posts above). This method of payment is as good as any - it is relative to what you want to earn at the end of the project. Now if you lack experience you may want to reach out (like you are doing on this forum) and ask other architects which have done similar projects what their costs/profits have been for similar projects. Based on this information you will be able to inform your client of why you are charging them "X" and what the deliverables are , i.e. - plans, sections, elevations, revisions based on city plan checkers, revisions based on owner changes, etc.......I cannot stress enough to be as clear as necessary to be profitable. Keep in mind that this level of clarity will only make you look professional and capable. Good luck and make money - do not work for free.
I was mining the old posts for gems the other day. I think this one from Quizzical about starting an office is a good fit (hopefully they don't mind my quoting their old post)
Start as you mean to go forward. Don't just take any crap work that comes your way simply for cash flow purposes. chase work you really want. Scut work diverts you from what you do best and builds your reputation in unhelpful ways. Crappy clients will suck the life out of you. this advice assumes a certain economic "staying power" -- starting on a shoestring is tough and may cause you to head down a path that will be difficult to shake later on. if you can, build up some significant economic reserves before you walk off the plank. Good luck.
If you do take this project you need to be in charge, not dictating the design, but definitely fee schedule, deadlines, and client responsibilities etc. If you are not in control this sounds like a nightmare project where you work through an "interpreter" while the decisions are made by a committee you have no access to.
If you decide to go for it Michael Malone has an interesting breakdown of the process of designing a home. He breaks his fees out different ways for different parts of the project and has a sample of his contract. Has anyone else read this book? I don't have a lot of experience to compare against his ideas, but he is very forthcoming about how he runs a residential project. http://www.amazon.com/Architects-Guide-Residential-Design/dp/0071605630
Thanks all. I knew a post like this would open up a flood of comments.
FP you're right, and not being harsh. I don't know a thing about professional practice as I'm pretty much right out of school. And school didn't do much to prepare me for the real world.
As for Tectonic, the reverse engineering of the math to accomodate them puts things into perspective. They want a home much larger, and the square footage price they asked for was so incredibly low. In fact it looks like they want a luxury home done at slave labour design costs.
I've since told them I'm not working without a retainer. I haven't done any work for them yet ( mostly because of their delays ) so I haven't wasted any effort. I also won't start anything without a contract.
I decided to smarten up and give them options as to how the project moves ahead, tell them nothing is being done without a retainer and given them options for payment. They have yet to respond ( just sent the e-mail yesterday ) but the ball is in their court.
On the one hand like won and done williams says, I've got nothing to loose. But on the other I don't feel like getting myself into a headache.
jbushkey: I'm honored you think one of my earlier posts is worth repeating.
if they just want a mc mansion let em do it on their own. you'll only be disheartened by the whole process. the world is full of home builders who would design their dream clusterfuck for them for free if they have the opportunity to build it. fire your potential client now!
Doesn't sound like they have the right architect for the job. If they were my client I wouldn't hesitate to let them know that is a concern.
You were right to think there were red flags, and ask for advice.
The type of client you're describing is pretty classic and I'd venture to bet that those of us with longer career histories have each come across identical clients at least once. (And some of us have certainly ended up burned!) It's a shame your brush with these types has happened at a point where you don't have much experience yet. But good for you to be wary.
My advice - which is part of what I do to evaluate each potential client I come across - is to envision the worst possible outcome that is conceivably likely. With many clients, you have references to help guide you; you have outside clues to their character (are they prominent local businesspeople with a reputation to protect? Is there a board that will oversee their decisions? Have they ever sued anyone in the past, for any reason? etc etc); plus you have the character clues that they themselves show. In your case you only have the latter.
These people have already shown bad character to you. In this case unfortunately I think the worst of all possible scenarios bears envisioning: you do hours and hours and hours of labor for them; they argue over every bill, which is very emotionally draining; ultimately the walk away having paid nothing, and with only the hope of legal means to recover your pay. (The even worse ending is that they walk off with your rudimentary unfinished plans and build it anyway.)
So - imagine that scenario, 1 year from now. Now: if all that happens, at the end of it, will you be ok with having taken the risk? Do you have a means to live without any money at all from these people? It's a legitimate question - even knowing that this is a possible outcome, some architects would still take the job - they may just want experience, any kind of experience; they may have enough money that they don't need to ever get paid; they may personally be risk-takers. It's up to you. But if you do take the job, allow that worst-case scenario to help you protect yourself. Get a contract written (AND SIGNED) BEFORE starting any work that will help immunize you against this possible outcome. Get that retainer in advance, etc. etc. If you protect yourself, and keep yourself ready to deal with the worst possible outcome (just in case), and don't get too emotionally invested (just in case), I think it could be a good learning experience for someone like you. (Even if all it does is educate you about bad clients! That's worthwhile experience as well - we all have to go through it at some point.)
Also - even the very best clients sometimes stick you with an unpaid final bill. I've seen it happen so many times it no longer shocks me (and from all types of clients, too!). I am still working out the best way to deal with / prevent that scenario. Not getting paid is kind of a staple problem with this industry.
original poster,
like many alluding here, you need to write a contract and explain it to your clients. otherwise the blind is leading the blind, there are a lot of obstacles on the road and that pairing is not recommended. it is very important for beginning architects and designers to know that the biggest part of this type of work is negotiate, secure payments, clarify process and deliver what has been discussed and put a price tag on them. under the umbrella of architectural work, there are 'many' parts an architect is qualified and given authority to deliver. before you become the authority and the responsible person for design, you must build that relationship with the clients first and earn their trust in you. this is specially a common condition in residential work. be little patient and try to build up on that relationship. if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. move on and try to find other projects.
Good point Orhan. OP - it occurs to me that you might benefit from a quick crash course in contract documents, project planning, and architect-client relationships - and you're in luck, because there already exists such a thing -
The ARE exam on CDs really covers this stuff in depth, and I recommend you read the pertinent chapters in a test prep book (like Ballast, or Kaplan) which can likely be found at your local AIA. The chapters will take at most a couple of days to read through and should give you a good perspective on best practices for starting out projects. (When I took the exam I was bummed that I hadn't already learned that stuff the proper way - instead learning ad hoc from years of practice.) The great thing about the test prep is that it's a sort of summarized, quick-read version that will get you grounded in the essentials without wasting your time on unnecessary info.
I also recommend the Architect's Handbook To Professional Practice, which you should invest in immediately.
manta really good point... chris-chitect... you could check out the areforum.org...
its generally a test prep site, but once you sign up, you'll have access to their FTP server which hosts a bunch of really good information, including contracts...
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