A. Reasonable suspicion is only enacted AFTER a lawful stop, detention or inquiry with probable cause of course. So you cant just be stopped and asked for your papers like the fear mongers would have you believe.
B. Your ALREADY required to have proof of registration documents if your an alien, legally
Now it could be argued only the Federal government has the right to create immigration law however this law does nothing to ursurp the federal laws on the books and in fact argues the lack of enforcement by the Federal government makes it a state issue. On top of that it also goes after American businesses profiting off illeagal immigration which is a major cause!
Good luck sending the national guard or military to defend illegal immigrants against law abiding, tax paying Americans. Im sure that will go over real well.
NO. Again. You dont need probable cause to make a "Lawful stop". You can be lawfully stopped for suspicion of loitering. Youve either been deliberately misinformed, or youre simply being willfully ignorant of what the consequences of this are. Aliens may be required to carry proof of citizens, but what about "suspiciously illegal" looking real, actual citizens? Last time I checked, I didnt have to worry that walking around without my birth certificate on hand could lead to me being arrested for days on end while they check if Im 'really, seriously allowed to be here'. That this law was crafted by organizations founded by white separatists should tell you something. These clauses are deliberately vague, because their intent is to harass and detain people whose only offense is to be poor and brown.
And this is really insidious, because youre not alone. The NBC/WSJ poll a few days ago found that 64 percent of americans think this is perfectly fine, even though 66 percent predicted it would also would lead to racial profiling. Thats an incredibly damning result. I dont know how the national news media could have been so vague on this over the last 10 years, but racial profiling is institutionalized racism. Thats what it is. And for all this weeping on the right about the constitution, it also happens to be a glaring violation of the equal protections clause. I just dont understand how after everything weve been through as a people we could have fallen so far so quickly.
one should point out that Mr Padilla is actually exactly the same as Ms LaRose - both born in the USA, and as American as I am or, presumably you are.. unless, Rude, you're admitting you lied when you said that you accept all American citizens, equally, irrespective of their skin color and that your bias really is about race and not about immigration status? Your logic falling down on the job, Rude?
If I'm hunting kkk members or militiamen and I'm an fbi agent, I would naturally be looking for a profile, middle aged rural white men. If I'm in texas and az looking for illeagel aliens I'm looking for mexicans. It seems pretty obvious, common sense actualy. There seems to a lack of that floating around nowadays.
Right. The difference being, the FBI doesnt have the right to just round up white people at trailerpark barbecues for engaging in 'suspiciously' white behavior. They need, yknow, things like warrants, and specific evidence for specific people engaging in specific crimes. I havent seen a lot of white people arrested on "he was talkin funny and had old worn out shoes."
Kind of like there are many who wish to trade your proud, nordic, beneficent superrace for a technocratic global cabal of murdering sociopaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings
Youre engaging in anecdotal racial scapegoating. Its not a new shade for people like you, but it is a very, very ugly color on you.
And yea, paradox, if you mean offering people, as human beings, a chance to voluntarily come out of the shadows and contribute fully to civil society in exchange for the basic rights and freedoms this country pretends to espouse, then yea, that makes a great deal of normal human common sense.
@2step: "this bill only allows for checking status after a legal arrest. So really its just one moe step after booking, running a satus check. The manufactured outrage over profiling and rights abuse is laughable. No one hee has even read the dam bill have they?"
37E: "A LEO, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probably cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the US"
I agree with OE.
Does anyone really think that this bill doesn't support if not encourage racial profiling? And what do you think the reality of the bill will be in AZ?
I think Geertrude mentioned civilian deaths by illegals hands.... even if you're numbers were correct (which I suspect they aren't, source?) This bill isn't going to solve that problem.
I suspect the illegal immigrant community is a lot larger than those committing crimes.
@On The Fence: you state "If this law was enacted in Montana you wouldn't say word one about race. It just happens it was enacted in Arizona. The majority of illegals crossing this border happen to be non Canadians. But that doesn't mean that if the police suspect a person, pulled over for speeding, is here illegally from Canada, he shouldn't ask for proper id."
This is a good point, but I don't think it holds water.
First, I don't believe there is a very large illegal immigrant community from Canada residing in Montana.
The communities of illegals are vastly different.
But suppose there were tons of illegals in Montana and a similar bill was passed that I believed would lead to racial profiling and infringements of constitutional rights... then yes I would be equally outraged and opposed.
Also, it is important to note that the countries these people are escaping from are insanely different as well. In Canada, one can provide for their family and obtain jobs and other such luxuries. That is not necessarily the case for people in Mexico...
"I believe any law that encourages racial profiling is potentially destructive. I'm fine with catching and deporting illegals, but if the means to do so involves subjecting people of certain appearances or ethinicities to greater scrutiny, then I think it fair to question whether this is something we should be doing.
If you want to crack down on illegal immigration, focus on improving the monitoring of people with expired visas and the like, not by asking beat cops to cast some type of broad net on groups that just might have higher rates of immigration violations among their members. More people overstay and work illegally than sneak in over the desert and work illegally, from what I understand."
DOT: "Therefore, I think it's a moot point to argue that the law allows enhanced policing of other crimes (e.g. drug-smuggling, human-trafficking, and apparently rape as described above) when this law simply enables the witch hunt of illegal immigrants within a specific race, pure and simple."
This is very well said along with the rest of his post.
Nobody is refuting the claims.If Latinos make up the 80% of the illegal immigrants in the US then it makes sense to go after Latinos right? Common sense right? What I don't agree with DOT's comment is the "witch hunt" part.
I'm afraid leos will follow that same simplistic logic. Ie racial profiling. But we need to look at the bigger picture. I believe oe already posted an article on the negatives or profiling.
But take into consideration that not 80% of illegals are committing the crimes that this bill is intended to solve.
when the cop makes a legal stop (like you run through a red light) the cop will ask for your 'papers' (i.e. license and registration). if you don't have your 'papers' and the cop runs your plates, checks the name you give, etc. and reasonably determines you may be in the country illegally, they can detain you and turn you over to the feds.
all of this occurs regardless of race, so illegal aliens from australia, germany, england, etc. will be affected at the same rate as illegal alien latinos will.
How is a racist cop going to proceed with a license to discriminate.
Or just a cop thats having a bad day.
How about a Latino cop... think he's going to be so diligent in harrassing every brown skin he encounters.
You can't possibly think this wont have huge effects on the community in terms of race.
I fully believe that there will be plenty of instances where the terms lawful contact and reasonable suspicion, probable cause will be stretched to the fullest extent.
And when rights and the constitution have been violated to find an illegal, no ones going to bat an eye.
And ya some will deserve to be deported. But family's are going to get torn apart when they're only crime was trying to survive.
I don't really want to read through this entire thread, because it will have the same effect on me as an emetic. But I do have one comment based on the issue:
This is suicide for the GOP. As such, I hope they keep pushing it. This country will soon be over 50% nonwhite. The GOP's paleolithic 19th century positions have no place in a modern, diverse society. So please, by all means, try to enact racist and anti-Latino policies all across the nation.
Sorry Pagliacci, it wasnt a reaction to you, just a general question about the kind of conservatism in the us thats driving this stuff. Im really serious when I say I dont think conservatism when done right is a bad thing. Spending and public debt has to be kept under control, and democrats need a serious opposition. Im genuinely lamenting that republicans arent providing it. What Im wondering is how anyone voting republican can accept the intellectual disintegration of their party. Theyre allowing the increasing influence of people who have mentally dissociated themselves from reality. There are real, serious problems in this country, but a secret illuminati of evil environmentalists in black helicopters arent one of them. There are real, serious ways to deal with things like immigration. I dont know anyone who thinks 15 million people living off the books is a productive situation. But just randomly harassing latinos isnt one of them.
The sad thing is, republicans used be for real solutions. John McCain and even George Bush made real, genuine efforts to find a solution to this, but they were shut down by crypto-separatist lunatics like Tom Tancredo and JD Hayworth. To watch McCain now crawl around whimpering about the "danged fence" and trying to form a strait face while claiming he never considered himself a maverick is probably the most humiliating implosion of political spine Ive ever witnessed. It might not even bother me so much if it wasnt also the collective implosion of the rest of the moderate republican party. Its this abandonment of reason and reality that really concerns me. Its like never mind immigration is ebbing, never mind this borderland crimewave is a phantasm, nevermind even that latinos are crucial to our political future, lets just go beat up on us some mexicans! Its fucking crazy. The tea party has evolved from being a fringey encampment of right-wing nuts and paulian paleo-conservatives into the Sarah & Glenn Suicide Pact for the Republican Party. They spend all this time folksily-jokesily reminiscing about the "Real America", the great irony being that they mentally live in a decidedly fictional america. They are not serious people. Theyre witless lunatics masquerading as politicians.
All I can hope is that reasonable america can see it, that "Throw the bums out" doesnt turn into "Throw the lunatics in", that people recognize finally that abolishing the federal reserve and institutionalizing racism and nuking Iran may not be the best ideas before it becomes the Sarah & Glenn Suicide Pact for America.
Everyone forgets that History is repeating itself here, back in the late 20's early 30's Millions of Mexicans who were American Citizens were kicked out of the country, And President Hoover authorized it to distract from the criticism that his administration was under, people held him responsible so he threw in a "Mexican Distraction"
So, do you guys really think that the great depression was solved by kicking out millions of Mexican/ Americans? many of whom were 2nd or 3rd generation americans?
your right good guess everyone it was solved by WW2.
And Frac, dont think Im not impressed by your capacity for rosy thinking, Id love to believe that were true. You'll have to forgive me that your movement's folk heros dont inspire in me a great deal of confidence.
Nobodys trolling dude. Weve all been here a lot longer than you have. We barb back and forth now and then about politics, but we agree on a lot of other stuff.
A report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, 56% of arrestees were "White", 42% were "Black", and 2% were of other races. The report additionally noted that [victims of rape were about evenly divided between whites and blacks; in about 88% of forcible rapes, the victim and offender were of the same race."
@MAtrobert:
Your 'Rapes' statistic lumps together rape, robbery and simple assault, and is intended to obfuscate the real threatening numbers. Take a look at the MURDER stats.
Even if the Percentage of Murders were evenly distributed between races 50/50 (Actual W=32.8% vs B=36.5%), and Blacks account for 12% of the USA Population, doesn't that make them +8 Times more likely to commit murder if the populations were equal?
No Rude, I don't have an issue with people of any particular skin color. I do have an issue with your inability to make an internally consistent, logically coherent argument.
You said that you are not a racist but, that you do not support racialk profilnig, but that you do have an issue with illegals (in part because they come here and commit crimes).
Then you proceed to cite Mr. Padilla as an example, when Mr. Padilla was irrefutably born in the USA and thus, by definition, not an illegal. You somehow claim that his case differs from that of Ms. LaRose, presumably on account of his Hispanic-sounding surname, despite the fact that they were both born in the USA and that they were both charged with basically the same crime. You also ignore evidence in the separate case with the 3 alleged rapists (of that protistute) that all three were also Americans and not illegals.
There are only two possible explanations here: you are incapable of basic logical reasoning or that you are writing in code to communicate truly racist views.
a third (theoretical) possiblity exists that you do not believe Latinos born inthe USA are citizens, and that they are in fact illegal, but such a belief would cast a question mark on your sanity, so I won't go there.
@Urbanest:
Why didn't you post Padilla as an example in lieu of LaRose? Mine was merely a response to yours......and I am not sure where your "You somehow claim that his case differs from that of Ms. LaRose.." comment? Where did that come from? I did not cite any difference.
You are making conclusions that aren't logical based on the information you've collected - it doesn;t compute. Perhaos in the mind of a white-hating person it does, and I think the premise of this entire thread is to Portray the government as white, and racist.
I regard LaRose and Padilla in precisely the same light, as should anyone - native born American citizens who support a political movement dedicated to the destruction of America.
Perhaps you aren't so much being illogical as you're being disingenous - saying that your points are about immigration when it really is about race. The two really are different issues. I support immigration enforcement, as do most people here I think, although our definition of what constitutes better enforcement probably differs quite a bit, as I would expect it to among Americans of good character. I also, at the same time, support a diverse country, not a white or brown or black country, and I believe that America draws its strength - has always drawn its strength - from this diversity, across all creeds and colors. If you think that this belief is "white hating" then that's your problem.
Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with real facts....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate.
Geertrude said -" Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with [b]real facts[/]....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate."
but here are the [url]=http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_43.html]real facts[/url]
Geertrude said -" Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with real facts....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate."
"AZ Immigration Law"/SB 1070 - Your Thoughts?
No OE, your wrong because:
A. Reasonable suspicion is only enacted AFTER a lawful stop, detention or inquiry with probable cause of course. So you cant just be stopped and asked for your papers like the fear mongers would have you believe.
B. Your ALREADY required to have proof of registration documents if your an alien, legally
Now it could be argued only the Federal government has the right to create immigration law however this law does nothing to ursurp the federal laws on the books and in fact argues the lack of enforcement by the Federal government makes it a state issue. On top of that it also goes after American businesses profiting off illeagal immigration which is a major cause!
Good luck sending the national guard or military to defend illegal immigrants against law abiding, tax paying Americans. Im sure that will go over real well.
my photo of Jose Padilla was deleted from the post.......
oe wrote: "Immigration is down. Crime is down. So what in gods name is your excuse for turning this country into fucking tattle-tale police state?"
Immigration and Crime are not down....like our president said, don't believe everything you read on the internet.
NO. Again. You dont need probable cause to make a "Lawful stop". You can be lawfully stopped for suspicion of loitering. Youve either been deliberately misinformed, or youre simply being willfully ignorant of what the consequences of this are. Aliens may be required to carry proof of citizens, but what about "suspiciously illegal" looking real, actual citizens? Last time I checked, I didnt have to worry that walking around without my birth certificate on hand could lead to me being arrested for days on end while they check if Im 'really, seriously allowed to be here'. That this law was crafted by organizations founded by white separatists should tell you something. These clauses are deliberately vague, because their intent is to harass and detain people whose only offense is to be poor and brown.
And this is really insidious, because youre not alone. The NBC/WSJ poll a few days ago found that 64 percent of americans think this is perfectly fine, even though 66 percent predicted it would also would lead to racial profiling. Thats an incredibly damning result. I dont know how the national news media could have been so vague on this over the last 10 years, but racial profiling is institutionalized racism. Thats what it is. And for all this weeping on the right about the constitution, it also happens to be a glaring violation of the equal protections clause. I just dont understand how after everything weve been through as a people we could have fallen so far so quickly.
Gert. DHS and The Justice Department isnt 'stuff I read on the internet.' Come to think of it though, just about every piece of bullshit you post is.
one should point out that Mr Padilla is actually exactly the same as Ms LaRose - both born in the USA, and as American as I am or, presumably you are.. unless, Rude, you're admitting you lied when you said that you accept all American citizens, equally, irrespective of their skin color and that your bias really is about race and not about immigration status? Your logic falling down on the job, Rude?
If I'm hunting kkk members or militiamen and I'm an fbi agent, I would naturally be looking for a profile, middle aged rural white men. If I'm in texas and az looking for illeagel aliens I'm looking for mexicans. It seems pretty obvious, common sense actualy. There seems to a lack of that floating around nowadays.
Right. The difference being, the FBI doesnt have the right to just round up white people at trailerpark barbecues for engaging in 'suspiciously' white behavior. They need, yknow, things like warrants, and specific evidence for specific people engaging in specific crimes. I havent seen a lot of white people arrested on "he was talkin funny and had old worn out shoes."
"I havent seen a lot of white people arrested on "he was talkin funny and had old worn out shoes.""
And what makes you think the Arizona police will do that to the Latinos??
Are you kidding?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-BlskNRJ7c
Urbanist.....
me thinks you HATE the white devil.
That was a very stupid comment from Bilbray.Here is how it should be done:
http://www.examiner.com/x-46228-Atlanta-Immigration-Examiner~y2010m5d14-KSU-student-Jessica-Colotl-turns-herself-in
I really wish there was a way to trade 1 million hardworking illegal mexican immigrant for 1 million inner city savages: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a09_1273875768
Kind of like there are many who wish to trade your proud, nordic, beneficent superrace for a technocratic global cabal of murdering sociopaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings
Youre engaging in anecdotal racial scapegoating. Its not a new shade for people like you, but it is a very, very ugly color on you.
And yea, paradox, if you mean offering people, as human beings, a chance to voluntarily come out of the shadows and contribute fully to civil society in exchange for the basic rights and freedoms this country pretends to espouse, then yea, that makes a great deal of normal human common sense.
@2step: "this bill only allows for checking status after a legal arrest. So really its just one moe step after booking, running a satus check. The manufactured outrage over profiling and rights abuse is laughable. No one hee has even read the dam bill have they?"
37E: "A LEO, without a warrant, may arrest a person if the officer has probably cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the US"
I agree with OE.
Does anyone really think that this bill doesn't support if not encourage racial profiling? And what do you think the reality of the bill will be in AZ?
I think Geertrude mentioned civilian deaths by illegals hands.... even if you're numbers were correct (which I suspect they aren't, source?) This bill isn't going to solve that problem.
I suspect the illegal immigrant community is a lot larger than those committing crimes.
@On The Fence: you state "If this law was enacted in Montana you wouldn't say word one about race. It just happens it was enacted in Arizona. The majority of illegals crossing this border happen to be non Canadians. But that doesn't mean that if the police suspect a person, pulled over for speeding, is here illegally from Canada, he shouldn't ask for proper id."
This is a good point, but I don't think it holds water.
First, I don't believe there is a very large illegal immigrant community from Canada residing in Montana.
The communities of illegals are vastly different.
But suppose there were tons of illegals in Montana and a similar bill was passed that I believed would lead to racial profiling and infringements of constitutional rights... then yes I would be equally outraged and opposed.
Also, it is important to note that the countries these people are escaping from are insanely different as well. In Canada, one can provide for their family and obtain jobs and other such luxuries. That is not necessarily the case for people in Mexico...
Urbanist
"I believe any law that encourages racial profiling is potentially destructive. I'm fine with catching and deporting illegals, but if the means to do so involves subjecting people of certain appearances or ethinicities to greater scrutiny, then I think it fair to question whether this is something we should be doing.
If you want to crack down on illegal immigration, focus on improving the monitoring of people with expired visas and the like, not by asking beat cops to cast some type of broad net on groups that just might have higher rates of immigration violations among their members. More people overstay and work illegally than sneak in over the desert and work illegally, from what I understand."
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
OE:
I read that article and I'm not sure what you're questioning. I'm sorry, I'm not very political so some of the terms are lost on me.
CAN ANYONE IN SUPPORT OF SB 1070 EXPLAIN TO ME HOW IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE (IN REALITY) TO HANDLING THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS???
DOT: "Therefore, I think it's a moot point to argue that the law allows enhanced policing of other crimes (e.g. drug-smuggling, human-trafficking, and apparently rape as described above) when this law simply enables the witch hunt of illegal immigrants within a specific race, pure and simple."
This is very well said along with the rest of his post.
Can anyone refute these claims???
Nobody is refuting the claims.If Latinos make up the 80% of the illegal immigrants in the US then it makes sense to go after Latinos right? Common sense right? What I don't agree with DOT's comment is the "witch hunt" part.
I'm afraid leos will follow that same simplistic logic. Ie racial profiling. But we need to look at the bigger picture. I believe oe already posted an article on the negatives or profiling.
But take into consideration that not 80% of illegals are committing the crimes that this bill is intended to solve.
While 100% of latino and hispanic people legal and illegal are going to be affected and 0% of white illegal immigrants in arizona will be.
wrong, Pags
when the cop makes a legal stop (like you run through a red light) the cop will ask for your 'papers' (i.e. license and registration). if you don't have your 'papers' and the cop runs your plates, checks the name you give, etc. and reasonably determines you may be in the country illegally, they can detain you and turn you over to the feds.
all of this occurs regardless of race, so illegal aliens from australia, germany, england, etc. will be affected at the same rate as illegal alien latinos will.
In theory yes. But lets be honest.
How is a racist cop going to proceed with a license to discriminate.
Or just a cop thats having a bad day.
How about a Latino cop... think he's going to be so diligent in harrassing every brown skin he encounters.
You can't possibly think this wont have huge effects on the community in terms of race.
I fully believe that there will be plenty of instances where the terms lawful contact and reasonable suspicion, probable cause will be stretched to the fullest extent.
And when rights and the constitution have been violated to find an illegal, no ones going to bat an eye.
And ya some will deserve to be deported. But family's are going to get torn apart when they're only crime was trying to survive.
I don't really want to read through this entire thread, because it will have the same effect on me as an emetic. But I do have one comment based on the issue:
This is suicide for the GOP. As such, I hope they keep pushing it. This country will soon be over 50% nonwhite. The GOP's paleolithic 19th century positions have no place in a modern, diverse society. So please, by all means, try to enact racist and anti-Latino policies all across the nation.
Can you enlighten me on the GOP... I have no clue what it is or does
Sorry Pagliacci, it wasnt a reaction to you, just a general question about the kind of conservatism in the us thats driving this stuff. Im really serious when I say I dont think conservatism when done right is a bad thing. Spending and public debt has to be kept under control, and democrats need a serious opposition. Im genuinely lamenting that republicans arent providing it. What Im wondering is how anyone voting republican can accept the intellectual disintegration of their party. Theyre allowing the increasing influence of people who have mentally dissociated themselves from reality. There are real, serious problems in this country, but a secret illuminati of evil environmentalists in black helicopters arent one of them. There are real, serious ways to deal with things like immigration. I dont know anyone who thinks 15 million people living off the books is a productive situation. But just randomly harassing latinos isnt one of them.
The sad thing is, republicans used be for real solutions. John McCain and even George Bush made real, genuine efforts to find a solution to this, but they were shut down by crypto-separatist lunatics like Tom Tancredo and JD Hayworth. To watch McCain now crawl around whimpering about the "danged fence" and trying to form a strait face while claiming he never considered himself a maverick is probably the most humiliating implosion of political spine Ive ever witnessed. It might not even bother me so much if it wasnt also the collective implosion of the rest of the moderate republican party. Its this abandonment of reason and reality that really concerns me. Its like never mind immigration is ebbing, never mind this borderland crimewave is a phantasm, nevermind even that latinos are crucial to our political future, lets just go beat up on us some mexicans! Its fucking crazy. The tea party has evolved from being a fringey encampment of right-wing nuts and paulian paleo-conservatives into the Sarah & Glenn Suicide Pact for the Republican Party. They spend all this time folksily-jokesily reminiscing about the "Real America", the great irony being that they mentally live in a decidedly fictional america. They are not serious people. Theyre witless lunatics masquerading as politicians.
All I can hope is that reasonable america can see it, that "Throw the bums out" doesnt turn into "Throw the lunatics in", that people recognize finally that abolishing the federal reserve and institutionalizing racism and nuking Iran may not be the best ideas before it becomes the Sarah & Glenn Suicide Pact for America.
farwest1, why dont you just wait for the census numbers like the rest of us. ten years ago it was 200 million Whites, to 20 million Hispanics.
PS. racist and anti latino policies are the norm pretty much everywhere.
Everyone forgets that History is repeating itself here, back in the late 20's early 30's Millions of Mexicans who were American Citizens were kicked out of the country, And President Hoover authorized it to distract from the criticism that his administration was under, people held him responsible so he threw in a "Mexican Distraction"
So, do you guys really think that the great depression was solved by kicking out millions of Mexican/ Americans? many of whom were 2nd or 3rd generation americans?
your right good guess everyone it was solved by WW2.
ps. i know your should have been you're
And Frac, dont think Im not impressed by your capacity for rosy thinking, Id love to believe that were true. You'll have to forgive me that your movement's folk heros dont inspire in me a great deal of confidence.
anybody remember that movie "a day without a mexican"?
haha no. But something tells me this might cause a stir:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machete_%28film%29
This website has become Trollinect. This is a trollscape. I guess I should go to yahoo.fools if I want to discuss architecture.
Nobodys trolling dude. Weve all been here a lot longer than you have. We barb back and forth now and then about politics, but we agree on a lot of other stuff.
A report on rape and sexual-based crime published by the United States Department of Justice stated that of the crimes surveyed, 56% of arrestees were "White", 42% were "Black", and 2% were of other races. The report additionally noted that [victims of rape were about evenly divided between whites and blacks; in about 88% of forcible rapes, the victim and offender were of the same race."
Geertrude posted above many links to hispanics commiting crimes
many can be found for any other race aswell
http://www.freep.com/article/20100516/NEWS04/100516015/1318/Man-arrested-accused-of-killing-girlfriend-4-year-old
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A00E0DC123DE633A25751C2A9639C94689ED7CF
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/09/nightclub.shooting/
http://www.ksbitv.com/news/92885144.html
all races commit crimes..
If are biggest excuse is crime, then I guess we should deport everyone(no matter what race)
@MAtrobert:
Your 'Rapes' statistic lumps together rape, robbery and simple assault, and is intended to obfuscate the real threatening numbers. Take a look at the MURDER stats.
Even if the Percentage of Murders were evenly distributed between races 50/50 (Actual W=32.8% vs B=36.5%), and Blacks account for 12% of the USA Population, doesn't that make them +8 Times more likely to commit murder if the populations were equal?
IF:
X whites commit 32.8 Murders.
0.125X blacks commit 36.5 Murders.
Then Simple extrapolation suggests:
X whites commit 32.8 Murders.
X blacks commit 240 Murders.
And don't call me a racist, I am simply responding to your misdirected post.
No Rude, I don't have an issue with people of any particular skin color. I do have an issue with your inability to make an internally consistent, logically coherent argument.
You said that you are not a racist but, that you do not support racialk profilnig, but that you do have an issue with illegals (in part because they come here and commit crimes).
Then you proceed to cite Mr. Padilla as an example, when Mr. Padilla was irrefutably born in the USA and thus, by definition, not an illegal. You somehow claim that his case differs from that of Ms. LaRose, presumably on account of his Hispanic-sounding surname, despite the fact that they were both born in the USA and that they were both charged with basically the same crime. You also ignore evidence in the separate case with the 3 alleged rapists (of that protistute) that all three were also Americans and not illegals.
There are only two possible explanations here: you are incapable of basic logical reasoning or that you are writing in code to communicate truly racist views.
a third (theoretical) possiblity exists that you do not believe Latinos born inthe USA are citizens, and that they are in fact illegal, but such a belief would cast a question mark on your sanity, so I won't go there.
@Urbanest:
Why didn't you post Padilla as an example in lieu of LaRose? Mine was merely a response to yours......and I am not sure where your "You somehow claim that his case differs from that of Ms. LaRose.." comment? Where did that come from? I did not cite any difference.
You are making conclusions that aren't logical based on the information you've collected - it doesn;t compute. Perhaos in the mind of a white-hating person it does, and I think the premise of this entire thread is to Portray the government as white, and racist.
I regard LaRose and Padilla in precisely the same light, as should anyone - native born American citizens who support a political movement dedicated to the destruction of America.
Perhaps you aren't so much being illogical as you're being disingenous - saying that your points are about immigration when it really is about race. The two really are different issues. I support immigration enforcement, as do most people here I think, although our definition of what constitutes better enforcement probably differs quite a bit, as I would expect it to among Americans of good character. I also, at the same time, support a diverse country, not a white or brown or black country, and I believe that America draws its strength - has always drawn its strength - from this diversity, across all creeds and colors. If you think that this belief is "white hating" then that's your problem.
I could only get through the first page.
c.k. is the only reasonable, coherent person posting.
The radical academic arguments and conservative banter are worthless.
Let's find a way to create a path to efficient legal immigration. It's in the best interest of all.
By the way,
'...fairly good at urban planning and being cohesive with design...'
wtf are you talking about?
Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with real facts....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate.
Geertrude said -" Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with [b]real facts[/]....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate."
but here are the [url]=http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_43.html]real facts[/url]
ignor previous
Geertrude said -" Urbanist.....
MAtRobert posted some numbers that were intended to portray whites as having a higher propensity to commit rape than any other race.
I responded with real facts....that's all.
I'm not a racist - this thread invites debate."
but here are the real facts
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