ObiWanKenobi and zoolander are paranoids. Period. They have no grasp on reality. Obama is instituting "slavery"? "Socialism"? How can we have a rational conversation with these people?

The Obama administration just passed a moderate health care bill that still keeps our system private and respects the free market, while closing down loopholes that insurance companies used to exploit the sick, the poor, and the young. But they see this as "socialism." When you start from such a deranged and inaccurate position, it's impossible to have any further conversation. Like if I went up to someone on the street and asked them if they see "that unicorn over there." How could that person keep talking to me on any rational level?

What this is about, fundamentally, is a small segment of the population failing to understand how pluralities and majorities work. They fail to understand how a constitutional democracy (or republic, if you prefer) functions. They claim that if some small segment of the population, say 15%, believes and wants something different from the government, then the government is illegitimate.

No, the government and the majority that voted it in simply have preferences different from yours, Obi and zoolander. Deal with it.

Here is how paranoid and delusional I am:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EOIBQO0&show_article=1

"Under the health care overhaul, young adults who buy their own insurance will carry a heavier burden of the medical costs of older Americans—a shift expected to raise insurance premiums for young people when the plan takes full effect."

"...most Americans will be required to buy insurance or pay a tax penalty. That's when premiums for young adults seeking coverage on the individual market would likely climb by 17 percent on average..."

"The higher costs will pinch many people in their 20s and early 30s who are struggling to start or advance their careers with the highest unemployment rate in 26 years."

"...according to an analysis of the plan conducted for The Associated Press.

I just can't get over how moronic people are, after all these years with the obvious insanity of communism so apparent...it just defies all common sense.

All I can do is laugh at how pathetically stupid all you communists are...its just RIDICULOUS and ABSURD how tiny your brains must be.

"There are tuition free Gov. high quality universities in European countries and Brazil for decades, healthcare as well, should be great if we catch up with that and do even better. That's my opinion. But offcourse I am not one of those who watch Fux news without checking the world's reality. And it's not Hope and Change at no cost, we pay taxes and we should have a positive mass benefit."

Does your brain HURT when you try to think?

Yeah...public Universities in Europe and Brazil...SUCK a lot more than the public UNiversities historically anyways. That is why if they can they come here...or came here...thing are prtobably going to continue to reverse downhiill now that "Hope" and "Change" have "fundaMENTALly changed America" from liberty loving to communist loving in order to "Redistribute Wealth" to those who don't know what to do with things that they have not earned in the first place.

"we pay taxes and we should have mass benefit..."

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE TAX PAYER DOES, NOT THE GOVERNMENT, THEREFORE WITHOUT THE TAXPAYER WORKING AND GIVING VALUE TO THE MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE IT IS NOT EVEN WORTH THE PAPER IT IS PRINTED ON, THEREFORE, MONEY IS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE IT IS THE ONE WHO EARNED IT'S MONEY.

IT SEEMS THE PREMISE OF ALL THE COMMUNIST OBAMABOTS THESE DAYS IS ACTUALLY THE REVERSE OF REALITY...THEY THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT CREATES THE VALUE OF MONEY AND SINCE THEY PAY INTO THE POOL OF MONEY VIA TAXES, THEY SHOULD NATURALLY GET SOME PRINTED UP FOR THEIR FREE LUNCH AS WELL.

COULD THIS GENERATION POSSIBLY HAVE GOTTEN ANY MORE MORONIC AND SO SHORT A TIME OF ABOUT 100 YEARS???

>YES I AM SCREAMING...I JUST CAN'T TAKE THE LEVEL OF IDIOCY ANY LONGER!!!< YOU FOLKS WHO FALL IN LINE WITH THE "CHAINS YOU CAN BELIEVE IN" RHETORIC ARE LOONEY-TUNE RETARDS. I'VE SEEN MORE COMMON SENSE IN ADULTS WHO STILL BELIEVE IN THE TOOTH FAIRY, THE EASTER BUNNY, AND THAT GEORGE BUSH WAS A CONSERVATIVE.

START READING THE FINE PRINT PEOPLE!

TECHNICAL COMPETENCE IS A SKILL MOST HAVE APPARENTLY NOT BOTHERED TO LEARN!

"When they are learned they think they are wise..."

Very much looking forward to the "ignore this person" button on Archinect 2.1. It will save me a lot of scrolling.

America No: 22 95% Debt to GDP


http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959/The_World_s_Biggest_Debtor_Nations?slide=8

Germany No: 14 189% Debt to GDP


Either way, we don't want to go there people. Its like our congress has decided to throw in the towel regarding global competitiveness for our economy and is content to settle for command and control roles for the international jet set and mcjobs and devalued currency for the rest of us. Nothing will create a permanent lower middle class existence for our country than massive debt for future generations. Both sides are responsible for running up the debt to the current levels but in light of the recent meltdown, the current proposals for health care subsidies, medicade funding shifted to the states, union benefit bailouts ( the kind that dont have to be repaid ), student loans and cap and trade still lurking in the weeds and God knows what else in the stimulus package ( a state and federal employee bonanza) - these programs are simply irresponsible and knowing an Illinois Politician when I see one, are simply tribute money to the friends who got them in - insurance, labor and wall street. Follow the money.

Be prepared for all the looney's whove escaped from the looney bin to call you "crazzzzzy" 2 step.

The looneys ARE apparently running the asylum now.

Heeey its fuckmook! Missed ya buddy. :) Eat any good books lately?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36075836/ns/us_news-security/

So, heres the thing. Theres a lot of military language in politics. I understand that. I dont think all republicans, or even most tea party people are racist or dangerous or anything like it. There are some very legitimate arguments about the long term debt and tax policy and how to trim waste that absolutely need to be had. But republicans need to think, very very carefully about where theyre headed. Healthcare was a big bill, I get it. Actually it was a pretty conservative bill, but whatever, people have a right to run whatever strategy they think will help them. What really concerns me isnt just the language, its the astonishing willful lack of awareness they seem to have of the really fucked up people who take them seriously. I mean how in gods name can these people watch what happened to John Lewis, saw what happened to Barney Frank and Tom Perriello, and not stop to think of the really serious consequences their words can have? I mean if youre going to run on apoplectic end-times lunacy, you have to understand that youre giving cover for apoplectic end-times lunatics. It isnt just rhetoric to these people. Not everyone who watches Glenn Beck understands that he doesnt believe a word that comes out of his own mouth. If you tell them Obama is Hitler, that healthcare is armageddon, you must understand that some of these screwballs might just believe you. And to keep it going after everything weve seen isnt just irresponsible, its fucking reprehensible. And its killing their party.


I mean just look who theyve got agreeing with them^^

I honestly just pray someone can muster real courage before someone gets hurt. To be like Bill Buckley, to say this is going to be a serious party again and not some self-immolating looneytunes disaster.

oe, where is it that that crazy militia group agrees with the tea-baggers and republicans?

Healthcare was a big bill, I get it. Actually it was a pretty conservative bill, but whatever ..

conservative bill? how so?

Well its not like anyone released a movie called "The assassination of Geroge W. Bush" or had 700,000 people marching through New York with Bush is a Nazi, Hang Bush or Try Bush for War Crimes posters. I find it scary, very scary that the media has vilified Americans who protested this bill without a single arrest, SINGLE ARREST, yet said nothing as the previous admin was ridiculed into silence, crushed by the media and actualy had a major breach of security when the motorcade was egged - which could have been something much worse. The American people are not dumb and will see through the BS of the current spin cycle soon enough. I guess all you 20somethings must be earning over $250,000 a year to be gifted this 17-20% rate increase because remember, no one earning under $250K will see an increase.


Lets remind everyone of the sane and rational folks who would never stoop to such lows;

FRaC,

The closest bill to the one just passed was Romney's bill in Massachusetts, a bill lauded by Republicans (who are, in a sense, hypocrites for now denigrating Obama's bill.)

The second closest was Richard Nixon's early seventies health reform proposal.

This is a market-oriented solution that essentially tweaks and makes more fair the system we already have.

It's lunacy for people to call Obama a marxist over this. He believes in markets, in constitutional democracy (or republicanism, if you prefer.)

You may hate him because he won against your side, and continues to win, and will continue to shame and humiliate Republicans by winning for progressive values, while being charismatic and fundamentally decent. But please be honest. He is for the free market and for our democracy and liberties.

2step,

If you step outside your comfortable American home and into the Iraq of 2003, you would see that starting a war of choice killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Have you ever thought about American from the point of view of an Iraqi whose home was destroyed or whose family was killed?

That's why 700,000 people marched.

I don't agree with the title of that movie but an apples to apples comparison of this and the previous administration is like day and night.

You honestly think America is the aggressor in liberating a country from an oppressive dictator? By trying to build a stable democracy in the most troubled region on Earth in the midst of an expansion of radical islam in a region ripe for indoctrination, we are the evil ones? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis weren't killed by Americans either you sick SOB. Keep spewing your hate, lies and living in your fantasy cocoon.

Why dont you step out into the Iraq of 2010 and tell the people it was a mistake. Im sure you'll find a hand full of people to agree with your defeatist anti American attitude but the majority would laugh you back to the Ivy league school that hatched you.

farwest you are far and away the most ignorant aspiring politico I know. Maybe you should run for office!

you said, "It's lunacy for people to call Obama a marxist over this. He believes in markets, in constitutional democracy (or republicanism, if you prefer.) "

and, this is just plain laughable, "He is for the free market..."

WOW. Where do I begin...

#1 Economic and social policy: Obama is definitely a Marxist and is absolutely not a proponent of the free market as delineated by Adam Smith in his seminal book, The Wealth of Nations. You ask how do I know this? Barry Soetoro (his real name, bet you didn't know this because, I'll bet you didn't do the work to find out), er "Obama" said so himself: "we are going to fundamentally transform this nation and redistribute wealth."

There are a host of other dead giveaway including the folks with whom he has and does associate with and, oh, the fact that he has been the spearhead behind the gutting of 1/2 of the private industry in the U.S. in a little less than 2 years (health care, GM, etc.)...but lets leave it at his own aforementioned quote: IT REALLY DOESN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THAT (THAT HE IS NOT, NOT, NOT A proponent of a Republican form of government, much less a democratic, and is a full blown MARXIST.

Do me a favor, pleae for the love of all that is holy, educate yourself. Read The Wealth of Nations & the Constitution and then read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto..no skimming or cliff notes!...from cover to cover.

THen perhaps we might have an intelligent conversation. Until then, you are just plain looney-tunes.

#2 It is going to be difficult for you and the hordes of idiots out there like you, but do not fall into the same old, tired, boring, lame trap of making this about "Republicans vs. Democrats" yada yada.

For the Record both Parties are toying with the nation and their endgame for both is COMMUNISM. In fact, in my mind Bush and McCain are actually representative of a much greater danger because they are most assuradely "wolves in sheeps clothing".

Republicans and Democrats, as witnessed by their "fruits" are not any different from eachother than fraternal twins might be. Same underlying structure, different face.

#3 2steps last point is very reasonable. THe hypocrisy on the so called "left" is just plain blatant. THey aren't wolves in sheeps clothing--->they are just plain out and out wolves.

You would think that the avearge village idiot was smarter and had better capabilities of discernment, but sadly the evidence is overwhelmingly demonstrative that there are droves and droves of idiots out there.

My brother was at an ivy league school getting an MBA when Barry Soetoro, er OBama was being challenged in the election 2 years ago. The editor of Newsweek came to give his graduating class a speech. This editor said outright that "We will not let Obama fail"...meaning "even if we have to lie for him" was what he meant within the context.

And lie on top of lie on top of lie they have told.

#4 I am just incredulous that so many like yourself actually go for the blatant, bald faced lies full hook, line, and sinker. Simply incredible (in a nightmarish kind of way).

2 step I would argue that the Republican war cry for entangling ourselves in foreign wars is simply unconstitutional and only serves the military industrial complex.

And for all you demo-libertard-lefty fans out there...wait, didn't Barry Soetoro, er, Obama promise to take the troops out of Afgan and Iraq? SO why is he sending more troops everyday 1 1/2 years after being "elected"? Oh wait >he didn't LIE did he?< Of course not. the policitians on the so called "left" and "right" NEVER do that...LOL.

Bring the troops home and put them on the borders where they belong. It makes no national sense to be defending the borders of foreign countries, much less when our own country is literally being invaded (2step I respect your opinion more than these libertards but perhaps you ought to do some research into Bush and the republicans role in the North American Union, if you haven't already).

THe common denominator in all of this foreign B.S. is the CFR (Council of Foreign Relations). Do some research people. Get an ejukasion.

2 step I would argue that the Republican war cry for entangling ourselves in foreign wars is simply unconstitutional and only serves the military industrial complex.

And for all you demo-libertard-lefty fans out there...wait, didn't Barry Soetoro, er, Obama promise to take the troops out of Afgan and Iraq? SO why is he sending more troops everyday 1 1/2 years after being "elected"? Oh wait >he didn't LIE did he?< Of course not. the policitians on the so called "left" and "right" NEVER do that...LOL.

Bring the troops home and put them on the borders where they belong. It makes no national sense to be defending the borders of foreign countries, much less when our own country is literally being invaded (2step I respect your opinion more than these libertards but perhaps you ought to do some research into Bush and the republicans role in the North American Union, if you haven't already).

THe common denominator in all of this foreign B.S. is the CFR (Council of Foreign Relations). Do some research people. Get an ejukasion.

2step, i'd be curious to hear your response to farwest's post. obamacare is romneycare, not the system of "socialized medicine" the right's propoganda machine likes to make it out to be. and what is your response to the non-partisan congressional budget office's estimation that the health care reform package will actually reduce the deficit by $140 billion over the next years? oh i'm sure you have x,y, and z reasons why the cbo is not to be trusted, but after a while an ideology based on mistrust, negativity, and cynicism only erodes your own credibility.

I wouldn't vote Romney either - All these guys that are supposedly pro business are really pro "big government married to big business" screw the small businesses that make this country hum.

Why would you equate Romney with Republicans as whole? Or tea party people? He lost the nomination after all. and Mass. has 20% higher insurance costs than the national average so theres a nice preview.


Jafidler - "that the health care reform package will actually reduce the deficit by $140 billion over the next years"


60 years on Earth have taught me to just stop believing this stuff. Its a big shell game, pump more over here to cover the losses over there. You cant make statements like this because the future hasn't happened and I guarantee you there will be other "factors" that come into play and skew the numbers and 20 years from now when your paying 20% of your paycheck to keep my vegtable ass alive on top of your 40% cocktail of VAT, payroll, SS and income taxes - you can say gee maybe this doesn't work afterall. Call it cynical, because it is - and its cynicism thats been earned. You dont fix anything by doing more of the same.

I am extremely suspicious of Romney...too high of a chance he is fundamentally out of touch with the people (like all the rest).

Shell game. EX-friggin'-ACTLY

Right on 2step!

Barry Soetoro: Chains you can believe in

George W: The second tyrannical monarch of the U.S.A. to have the last name of Bush. "King George the II"

many in the media and some republican insiders have romney as the early frontrunner for republican presidential nominee in 2012. you can do a quick google search and it will bear that out.

romney's bill was supported by republicans? conservative republicans? what percentage of republicans 'lauded' romney's horrible bill?

yay! we now have great nixonian health care policy 'cause nixon was such a great leader!

and i love how obama glossed over nixon's wishes in his triumphant health care bill-signing speech:

I’m signing this bill for all the leaders who took up this cause through the generations — from Teddy Roosevelt to Franklin Roosevelt, from Harry Truman, to Lyndon Johnson, from Bill and Hillary Clinton, to one of the deans who’s been fighting this so long, John Dingell. To Senator Ted Kennedy. And it’s fitting that Ted’s widow, Vicki, is here — it’s fitting that Teddy’s widow, Vicki, is here; and his niece Caroline; his son Patrick, whose vote helped make this reform a reality.

*ahem* you're signing this bill for Richard Nixon, too! great job!

Maybe a lot of folks are too young to understand but this isnt the beginning of some new era of governance. All this is echos of every Democratic bad idea of the last 75 years finally getting some traction. In the long time-line this is a mere fad or flirtation with the leftist ideologies, a reaction to the 1990s and 2000s economic excess. The funny thing is when people get hungry again, they will revert to their pro market, pro business, pro growth ways. I truly believe this is the final act of the 20th century machine style Democratic way of thinking - an encore before the final bow, a retro cool celebration.

Lets break this one down!

#1 Economic and social policy: Obama is definitely a Marxist and is absolutely not a proponent of the free market as delineated by Adam Smith in his seminal book, The Wealth of Nations. You ask how do I know this? Barry Soetoro (his real name, bet you didn't know this because, I'll bet you didn't do the work to find out), er "Obama" said so himself: "we are going to fundamentally transform this nation and redistribute wealth."

Some great blind assertions, but he really takes it home with the made up quote!


There are a host of other dead giveaway including the folks with whom he has and does associate with and, oh, the fact that he has been the spearhead behind the gutting of 1/2 of the private industry in the U.S. in a little less than 2 years (health care, GM, etc.)...but lets leave it at his own aforementioned quote: IT REALLY DOESN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THAT (THAT HE IS NOT, NOT, NOT A proponent of a Republican form of government, much less a democratic, and is a full blown MARXIST.


A quick fake toward guilt-by-association and BOOM! completely refutable non-facts! Gotta love it. The all-caps really lets you know hes NOT, NOT, NOT concealing the gaping chasm where his intellect should be.


Do me a favor, pleae for the love of all that is holy, educate yourself. Read The Wealth of Nations & the Constitution and then read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto..no skimming or cliff notes!...from cover to cover.

This is where experience comes in. When youve been desperately grasping to hide the fact you stopped reading in middleschool as long as he has, its important to save that reading list!


My brother was at an ivy league school getting an MBA when Barry Soetoro, er OBama was being challenged in the election 2 years ago. The editor of Newsweek came to give his graduating class a speech. This editor said outright that "We will not let Obama fail"...meaning "even if we have to lie for him" was what he meant within the context.

Its a good thing he made up some context for that story about a guy giving a speech one time that his brother saw! Yknow what they say, when youve got lemons, just cram them up your ass so no one notices.


...hoards...Barry Soetoro...multiCULTuralism...whining...made up shit...

The key here is repetition. I mean, nobody's reading his posts anymore, but hey! When no one will hire you because youre a racist fuckbag youve gotta kill the time somehow!


but sadly the evidence is overwhelmingly demonstrative that there are droves and droves of idiots out there.

And nothing could be truer than that.

Frac is right though. Romneys plan isnt really the republican plan. The republican plan is to stick their thumb up their ass while premiums triple over the next decade and half a million people die for lack of insurance.

"Romneys plan isnt really the republican plan. The republican plan is to stick their thumb up their ass while premiums triple over the next decade and half a million people die for lack of insurance"


LOL - insurance premiums are going up with or without the healthcare bill - you want change start at the source - the doctors and hospitals, not insurance, already in bed with the government and just gifted 30 million new patients. And FYI - nobody in America will die without insurance, if your too poor for insurance you are eligible for medicare already, and if your poor enough you dont even have to pay, how about that shit?


The best part about this healthcare debacle is that 150million morons woke up last Monday and think they are going to get free healthcare.

oe you are either woefully ignorant, hopelessly misinformed, or a duplicitous sycophant, or a combination thereof.

Yes, "LETS" break it down, play by play:

#1 Obi said, "Obama is definitely a Marxist and is absolutely not a proponent of the free market as delineated by Adam Smith in his seminal book, The Wealth of Nations. You ask how do I know this? Barry Soetoro (his real name, bet you didn't know this because, I'll bet you didn't do the work to find out), er "Obama" said so himself: "we are going to fundamentally transform this nation and redistribute wealth."

oe said, "Some great blind assertions, but he really takes it home with the made up quote!"

Obama: "Fundamentally Transforming the United States of America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvJJP9AYgqU

Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPbCSSXyp0

TELL ME THAT IS NOT BARRY SOETORO, ER OBAMA MAKING THOSE EXACT STATEMENTS!

#2 Obi said, "There are a host of other dead giveaway including the folks with whom he has and does associate with and, oh, the fact that he has been the spearhead behind the gutting of 1/2 of the private industry in the U.S. in a little less than 2 years (health care, GM, etc.)...but lets leave it at his own aforementioned quote: IT REALLY DOESN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THAT (THAT HE IS NOT, NOT, NOT A proponent of a Republican form of government, much less a democratic, and is a full blown MARXIST."

oe said, "A quick fake toward guilt-by-association and BOOM! completely refutable non-facts! Gotta love it."

Okay SO PROVE ME WRONG. Don't just sling mud around, PROVE IT! I don't think you can...but I'd like to see you try.

#2 Obi said, "Do me a favor, please for the love of all that is holy, educate yourself. Read The Wealth of Nations & the Constitution and then read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto..no skimming or cliff notes!...from cover to cover."

oe said, "This is where experience comes in. When youve been desperately grasping to hide the fact you stopped reading in middleschool as long as he has, its important to save that reading list!"

What is your point on this one? Perhaps your argument would be benefitted by more than jst the usual slinging of mud at the opposition.

#3 Obi said, "My brother was at an ivy league school getting an MBA when Barry Soetoro, er OBama was being challenged in the election 2 years ago. The editor of Newsweek came to give his graduating class a speech. This editor said outright that "We will not let Obama fail"...meaning "even if we have to lie for him" was what he meant within the context."

oe said, "Its a good thing he made up some context for that story about a guy giving a speech one time that his brother saw! Yknow what they say, when youve got lemons, just cram them up your ass so no one notices."

What is your point? My brother and I speak on the phone and email eachother constantly. This was not some "he said, she said ten years ago" connjecture of a "story". This happened. My brother called me and described what happened at the speech detail by detail immediately afterwards. I did not make up the context. If you want , ask me to and I will do the research to identify the name of the speaker, the date and time, and all the details you request.

#4 oe said, "...hoards...Barry Soetoro...multiCULTuralism...whining...made up shit..."

All you seem to have is the ablility to toss a red herring or two or some mud into the ring or engage in ad hominems.

#5 Obi said, "but sadly the evidence is overwhelmingly demonstrative that there are droves and droves of idiots out there."

oe said, "And nothing could be truer than that."

I think I have reasonably and logically shown which side the idiocracy favors at this time.

I mean this is the thing. Conservativism used to actually be based on something. They used to do research. They used to try to solve things, instead of just calling up frank luntz for the demagoguery du-jour. Its honestly discouraging for me, I just havent seen them come up with a single reality-based policy prescription in 20 years.

"The Harvard study found that people without health insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance — as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care."


Yes - the RISK is greater. Ironic a debate about insurance includes statistics on RISK.

Read the article and you will see it says they have harder time accessing healthcare, not they have NO access to healthcare. And the article goes on to say that many of those uninsured at RISK are in inner city areas where public hospitals have been forced to close. Hmmm, public government run hospitals forced to close, I wonder how that could possibly be? Mismanaged? Overun with state and county workers? The perscription is thus, EVEN MORE OF THE SAME.


Maybe also the poor would do themselves good to leave the inner city urban areas where they are being held captive by their Democratic Overlords for use as a voting bloc.


None of this is new as of 2010. This has all been going on 50 years or more now I will add.

Well, "obi", youre fun to make fun of, but it really isnt incumbent upon me to purge the beckian phantasms in your head, is it?

This first comment is spot on "Yes. We all need coverage but

“Health insurance can only make you healthier if you have access to care,”

I fail to see how taking 13% of a family’s income to pay for an insurance policy that will require them to pay another $11,900 out of pocket in the event of medical problems will improve access to care."

This is what I mean man. This is not a single payer program! There isnt even public option! There isnt a government run anything. You guys are attacking a fucking fantasy.


Yes, there is a greater RISK. Which means, statistically, there are a greater number of DEATHS. Im not saying this fixes everything, nobody is. But having just basic protections for people, coverage for preexisting conditions, subsidies for preventative care, exchanges to drive down costs, are still good things, right? I mean really be honest with yourself, is that really an end to freedom as we know it?

oe said, "Well, "obi", youre fun to make fun of, but it really isnt incumbent upon me to purge the beckian phantasms in your head, is it?'

I just provided quotes from the spawn of illegal aliens-born in Kenya-raised as a muslim-constitution and republic deconstructing-communist thief of a lying man himself and that is all you have?

You are looney-tunes. And is that what this is all about, "making fun" things IS some kind of joke to you and youtr kind isn't it? That is the problem with trying to have an intelligent conversation with an Obamabot -they have checked their logc, reason, and intelligence at the door and instead turn to gangsterist tactics in an attempt to browbeat the intelligeny opposition into submission.

May the chains of what you believe in rest lightly on you brother, it seems your reason and intelligence has left you and the only thing left is mental, physical, and emotional slavery for you and those like you.

Hope and Chains oe, Hope and Chains.

don't bother trying to reason with oe...all reason has left him...all he is left with is Orwellian, ad hominem attack tactics.

Its useless to waste intellgent time and effort on the hopelessly enslaved.

Heres some great video of union thugs threatening, verbally assaulting and caught with eggs which were thrown at Tea Party Buses

http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/03/30/video-the-egg-man-of-seachlight-nevada/

But I thought the tea partyers were the thugs, even though wee still havent seen a video of the infamous "N" word slur despite every major news outlet being there.


Axelrod = Axelturf Classic race bait job to quell opposition.

The Tea Party ROCKS!

I personally think that Palin is a wolf though! She went down to AZ to stump for that sidewinder McCain when JD Hayworth is obviously the candidate with Tea Party principles. I spent some time in AZ. McCain is everybit as bad as Napalitano (Homeland INsecurity czar).

Palin also stumped against Medina in TExas and I know Glenn Beck also said some less than encouraging things about Medina in Texas. Medina is the real deal and so is JD Hayworth.

Just goes to show how vigilant the Tea Partiers are going to have to be to make sure that the movement to take back America to its Authentic principles isn't co-opted by the neo-cons in the Republican party and the commies on the left (don't think the latter will happen).

I am wary of anyone like Glenn Back...good entertainment but by the very ntaure of his position in the media, despite his best attempts. he is simply not connected to the feet on the ground.

I will continue to take everything Beck says and subject it to massive scrutiny...who knows he might end up like Limbaugh...all strung out on oxycodone or something....but the bulk of his main points are valid based on my analysis...though he obviously is going to make mistakes.

One thing I like about the Tea party is that its name goes back to the Boston Tea Party and it will be very hard for the Republicrats to cop-opt.

The best thing libertards like oe can come up with so far is "teabaggers".

Not to fear compatriots! I am sure that back in 1767 the Colonists faced very simillar threatening and virulent thetoric from the King and his cronies!

Soldier on and on to Victory! Might doesn't make right but Righteousness and Virtue do!

I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, "Brethren, if we don't hang together...surely we will all hang separately!"

i think it was donny wahlberg who said,

Everybody's always talking about who's on top
DON'T CROSS OUR PATHS CUZ YOU'RE GONNA GET STOPPED!
We ain't gonna give anybody any slack
And if you try to keep us down WE'RE GONNA COME RIGHT BACK!
HANGIN' TOUGH!
HANGIN' TOUGH!
HANGIN' TOUGH!
are you tough enough?

Oh, this thread again.

"very simillar threatening and virulent thetoric from the King and his cronies!"

Except that King George practicality bent over backwards to appease the colonies. It was Washington and his assholes who misrepresented the king because they didn't want to pay anything to mass produce whiskey, marijuana, tobacco, cotton and corn on the King's dime, on his roads, in his colonies, using his ships, using his seamen, being protected by his navy and so forth.

England has had some form of representational government (albiet not a true democracy for a thousand years. King George was even offering landed and seated titles in parliament to any colonial that was willing to accept them.

So, even with the taxes proposed by King George... the amount was insignificant compared to what individuals were making at the time.

If anyone wants to call a farce, you could probably

start with the Founding Fathers who misrepresented the intentions of the crown.

Lastly, this is all highly amusing since our country was financed by the biggest douchebag absolutist monarchs (The Dauphin of France, Louis the 14th-16th). And after the revolution, half of our founding fatheres ended up taking residences in Paris.

If the country you created is so great... why are you dying in France?

After reading this thread I couldn't help to say that I never though I would see (as a Star Wars Geek) Obi One Kenobee on the path to the dark side. I've been out of school for a bit over a year and I must say that graduation was not a liberating emotion but rather one of terror do to the lack of jobs and terrible economic situation we (all of us) find ourselves in.

Health care is a relief all though I'm lucky (and worked hard for) to have a job in my field that provides me with a good health insurance plan. Nothing is free, that is for sure. I personally don't have a problem helping someone in need (out of my own pocket) as I hope someone else would be nice enough to help me when that time comes to me. We will see soon enough how it plays out. As far as student loans go, I'm one of many in debt. Even after grants and scholarships I still needed the loans (and yes, I did spent some of that money in travel but honestly, when will I get the chance again?). I must thank all of you for educating me (somewhat) on what this bill is about and how it might help me.

Like heathcare, the intention of bill is good, but only time will really tell if it was really good. People in my situation can forget about the illusion of the American Dream (for now) as of 10 years ago. These two bills provide a little light at the end of the tunnel as far as intention goes. Someone is looking out for the little guys like me (or pretending to in order to eventually rape me).

As far as the FUX News angry rheteoric being proposed here by our Force-sensitive pal... Marxism, Socialism, Capitalism? Capitalism is probably the most unatural and destructive of the three. I'll leave you with a excerpt (see what you guys think) from Sigfried Kracauer's "The Mass Ornament":

"However, the Ratio of the capitalist economic system is not reason itself but a murky reason. Once past a certain point, it abandons the truth in which it participates. It does not encompass man. The operation of the production process is not regulated according to man's needs, and man does not serve as the foundation for the structure of the socioeconomic organization. Indeed, at no point whatsoever is the system founded on the basis of man. "The basis of man": this does not mean that capitalist thinking thinking should cultivate man as a historically produced form such that it ought to allow him to go unchallenged as a personality and should satisfy the demand made by his nature. The adherents of this position reproach capitalism's rationalism for raping man, and yearn for the return of a community that would be capable of preserving the allegedly human element much better than capitalism. Capitalism's core defect: It rationalizes not too much but rather too little. The thinking promoted by capitalism resists culminating in that reason which arises from the basis of man."

Spencedawg, (maybe even oe, montagneux, others)

What if I don't define capitalism the way you do? What if your assumptions about what I might define as righteous economic forces actually (believe it or not) agree with yours?

What if I were to tell you that I too believe that Wal Mart and Home Depot and Taco Bell ad nauseum are raping the environment?

What if I were to tell you that I believe that the 9/11 hijackers actaully had some good reasons for doing what they purportedly did?

What if I were to tell you that I think both the Republicans AND the Democrats have got it all wrong.

Would you take the time to listen (or would you thrust forward without bothering to be willing to check your bogus assumptions at the door?)

I propose that the common thread that surfaces each and everytime with every disastrous step to losing more freedom and quality of life starts when people allow themselves to panic and fall into the trap of attempting to solve problems with the first knee jerk reaction that comes to them.

The enlightened man does the opposite. He does not merely react to situations. He reasons things out and carefully studies all the options before making his move.

I propose that assumptions are tools. THere can either be good or bad assumptions. Right now people are so scared by so many different things that they have been led to believe are threats to them that they are not taking the time to respond in an enlightened way.

BEHOLD...the idiocracy in all its glory.

montagneux you are obviously either a socialist, heavy on the communism or communist, heavy on the socialism.

If you were to be alive with those thoughts and feelings beating in your breast and repeated in your mind 250 years ago, you'd be a cowardly loyalist.

EIther way, you are obviously no Authentic American!

THese are the same thoughts that led Benedict Arnold to stab Liberty in the back as he did.

I assume you are living here? Get the hell out then. Stop benefitting from what mother America bequeathed to you. GO to a marxist paradise like Cuba or Zimbabwae once and for all and be gone with you: I will pay for your plane ticket. email me at [email protected] and I mean it, I will purchase a one way plane ticket for your treasonous self. It sounds like you don't enjoy it here and instead of "fundamentally changing" this land, why not go elsewhere...there are plenty of tyrannical communist, dictatorships in the world that you might "enjoy".

Seems like we do agree Kenobi (My sarcasm on the FUX News thing didn't come out right since I agree on your Glenn Beck bid and I poorly attempted to use it as a diving board to my excerpt), all though I still think it's too early to tell if these two bills were a good or a bad thing.

Montagneux... your bid on the Louis war sponsorship is sort of irrelevant. His intent to finance the war against Britain was because France too was at war with them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. As far as the Founding Fathers dying in France???

I think we are just going to have to wait a year or two at least to see how it starts to plays out.

The thing that's most amazing about the Fox News argument -- that health care is free under Obama and therefore we'll all pay for these new policies where before there was no cost -- is that uninsured people enter the health care system much more ill than they would have with preventive care and everyone else pays for it in higher medical costs. So if you're uninsured neighbor goes to the hospital and gets charity care, you pay for it when you go. That's basic economics and it's reality.

This is an argument that a real conservative understands, not the Glenn Beck "I was a party boy dj with a chimpanzee as a sidekick" and I am going to tell you that the earth is flat and if you don't buy it, you're a Commie.



Gimme the chimp instead of Beck any day of the week!

I just realized, after reading the story of the Lion King to my children tonight before bedtime, that the dolts that believe in so called "Hope" and "Change" are merely responding to the same frequency that the Hyenas do when Scar comes calling.

Obango: Chains you can believe in