That is gotta be their favorite number....5!
Either network your way into an interview or don't bother dealing with the stupid HR because they won't even bother reading your resume.

By the way,MArch is no substitute for the experience.What kind of "skills" do you have without the experience may I ask?

I would think as long as you feel comfortable that you could interview for a position, go ahead and apply.
Be ready for the question (if you get an interview) of why you would be a good fit for this job when you dont meet all the requirements.

As long as you have an answer ready, I say go for it


Obviously, it all needs to be within reason. You cant have 2 years experience and expect anyone to take you seriously if you apply for a senior level or 15+ year experience level job.


But with regards to a 5 year qualification, I think you can possibly get by with just 2 years.



In this job market, it's best to not leave any stones unturned

This is something I've always wondered myself.

I've seen jobs before say thins like "International renowned office seeking entry-level application with a minimum of 3 years in diverse international architecture (residential, institutional, commercial)."

It baffles my mind.

There's a lot of other job positions that read "Entry-level, must have 1-5 years experience and advanced degree."

Sorry, 2 years experience an advanced degree is NOT entry-level.

Then there are the other jobs I've seen where the specific a number of years experience but are not specific to whether or not the experience should pertain to the field or not.

And that goes hand-in-hand with specialty firms with very specialized products looking for people with relevant experiences. HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO HAVE RELEVANT EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU USE PROPRIETARY PATENTED PROCESSES!?

I have about 6 years of professional experience outside of the field... been wondering if it is worth anything though.

archrise: here's my take on the question you pose -- while certain skills may be present with two years of experience, the quality of the judgments architects are called upon to make tend to improve with more seasoned experience. I suspect that's why the ads are written the way you describe.

Truthfully, 30+ years into the profession, I still do some of the same tasks I did as a raw intern -- hopefully, I approach those tasks by making smarter decisions and working with more efficiency today than I might have done back them.

Now, having explained your question from the perspective of an employer, I don't see that there's much harm in applying for any job you believe you are qualified to hold. The burden will be on you to convey your abilities and convince the employer to give you some time. And, not knowing the firm(s) in question, I really can't tell you whether your submittal will be seriously considered or simply tossed into the can. But, you have no chance of serious consideration if you don't apply.

I will tell you that at our firm, when we advertise for new employees (boy, those were the good old days !) we always try to describe the profile of our ideal candidate in our ad, but we also exercise considerable flexibility in our review of submittals. If somebody doesn't meet the precise qualifications we outline but otherwise offers credentials that capture our attention, we'll bring 'em in for an interview. But, our approach is not necessarily every firm's approach.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the input.

I wholeheartedly agree that an M.Arch is no substitute for experience, they are different worlds, some more different than others.

By skills, I mean duties/qualifications listed in the postings. Modeling & rendering are certainly skills most graduates would have while knowing how to put a building together is a bit iffy depending on the individual, school, etc... That aspect would depend more on the right type(s) of experience.

I just have a stinking suspicion that anything cover letter/resume that has less than "5 years" goes in the round file. Easy way to widdle 400 apps down to 200.

Thank you quizzical.

I think you posted while I was typing. That is especially good insight to the reasoning.

What I am finding in the marketplace is that the companies that are advertising positions are either not sincerely looking or they are fishing for underqaulifed, low pay people.

They will typically list the qualifiactions for a position, I wil be invited to interview only to be told that I am "overqualified" when my experience and qualifications clearly practically match the job listing verbatim.

I go back to this video to have it all make sense:

Attorney's explains how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU&feature=PlayList&p=126DD55E0E6CD89B&index=0&playnext=1

Insincere business practice and the profession and AIA? nnaahh!! couldn't be...wink wink.

archrise: you seem to ascribe evil intent, or laziness, to the processes firms use to "widdle 400 apps down to 200" -- I can tell you from long personal experience that it takes a lot of time to cull through a deep pile of resumes. In such circumstances, many - if not most - candidates won't meet the minimum requirements.

Firms use different approaches to make the process manageable while still identifying the pool of candidates they want to examine closely. But, in my experience, neither malice nor laziness are material factors in the process at most firms.

Finding work in this economy is a bitch, but that's the world in which we currently live and operate. If you want to be noticed in that pile of "400 apps" you have to do something special - particularly when you don't meet the precise requirements being advertised.

Good luck.

the AIA has no input on how a firm advetises its job openings

I think it's a stretch to start blaming this one on the AIA, Winston

winston -- if you take the same attitude into an employment interview that you convey here on archinect, I expect any employer who's not already brain dead would immediately know that you'd poison any culture into which you might be allowed entry - regardless of your "skills". I've interviewed people like you and knew in the first 2 minutes I was wasting my time.

though it would probably be an interesting interview to have someone come in and blame the AIA for all the problems he has been having his entire life

Widdle 400 apps?

That's a lot of piss!

I didn't mean to imply evil, laziness, or malice. I was thinking of it strictly as a practical function which I fully understand is necessary & justifiable with a large applicant pool.

digger, why is that? because I don't exude the status quo of quaking in my boots to please you or any other employer (esp. AIA sycophants) for pennies on the dollar? Because I'm not willing to sacrifice my identity and values on the alter of what others have determined is "ethically" expedient?

go blow your smoke up someone elses' skirt and save your reverse psychology for the uninitiated.

When someone is willing to pay me what the real me is worth then I will find more work. Always have, always will. Until then, developing patience is something I have been wanting to have the opportunity to develop for a long, long time.

Besides, anything less is not profitable for me anyways, either financially or ethically.

In the meantime, you and others like you can keep hiring all the fakers who will pretend to care in order to get that "job" making you money and giving you your self of self worth.

I refuse to get "scared" into making any knee jerk, financially or ethically compromising decisions. Fortunately, I have been preparing for a long time for the inevitable layoff and I can afford to bide as much time as I want.

Also, my family and I have our health and great health insurance shoudl anything go wrong, which is priceless.

edit: and giving you your self of self worth. should read, "and giving you your SENSE of self worth."

typing way too fast and furious today...

That's funny. I haven't seen many that are looking for 5 years experience because I am that. Generally it's either looking for 15+ with license, etc. or more often not it's newbie Internships...that reluctantly I apply for.