I have read a lot about Revit and the information has always been very inconsistent. The formal descriptions of Revit uses so many terms that I further mystifies what it is. Surely it must be a lot simpler than what it is made out to be, right?
The only thing I know for sure is that it is a BIM software, which I don't completely understand what it is. Please explain to me what BIM is.
I played around with a trail version of Revit. Its easy to draw windows, doors, and walls, but everything seems so standard. It doesn't seem like as useful as a tool for architects as many people has suggested. Please tell me why this is or why this isn't a great tool for architects.
My final questions are can Revit produce curves and surfaces that Rhino produces? will it be extremely difficult to model a non-rectilinear building (i.e. Sagrada Familia) in Revit? What is Revit really intended for? is it possible to use a third party renderer with Revit?
here's a very general summary... i must be bored...
revit is "parametric modelling":
- (revit is to autocad) as (microsoft excel is to microsoft word)
- revit is like combining all of your 2D drafting with a 3D model
- unlike a regular 2D drafting or 3D modelling software which is dumb lines and 3D geometry, in revit you are basically "building" your building in a virtual model that has materials assigned to objects, data, parameters, etc... so everything is there already, and all objects are connected to each other by relationships...
- you are building a 3D model but all of your drawings are cut from the model, so it is not just 3D modelling, it is also a documentation tool
- generally, everything in your model is a component, what Revit calls a "family" (not necessarily true but as the big idea)... so not really dumb geometry but "walls" and "floor" and "ceiling", real objects that are programmed by somebody (there are a bunch of basic wall types that start out created by autodesk for example)
- you draw with tools similar to a drawing software, say you start in plan and draw in the plan view in 2D... Instead of drawing with lines, you are drawing with the "wall" tool for example. When you draw in plan, in the background, that is actually extruding automatically a 3D wall. you have tools for everything else (ceilings, floors, components like furniture, stairs, etc.)
- when you place something, it is a smart object, has parameters. For example, you can select a wall and define what the height is... what the top of the wall is attached to, and what level it is on, etc... this is why it is called "parametric modelling", because objects have parameters.
- aside from changing these "instance parameters" of a particular object, say a wall, you can also change "type parameters" for that entire family... So when you change a type parameter, it changes it for all walls of that type...
- a wall knows it is a wall. if you select any particular wall, you can change its type to another wall type... it is as easy as changing the layer of a line in autocad... there are no layers in revit, everything is identified by what family it is
- there is only one file in revit. basically all of your drawings are "views" of a 3D model. you can throw those onto drawing sheets, and they update live on the sheet as your model changes. you can render in revit (which creates a raster image), create 3D views (like axons or perspectives, etc.), you can create animations or flythroughs...
- because every drawing is a view of the same 3D model, changes in one place change the model, and all drawings looking at the same part update automatically... for example you move a wall in plan, and that wall moves in RCP and section as well... move one thing and it affects the next thing
- as far as annotation, there are tools that are smart... for example, a detail bug or section bug is not just created as a dumb piece of lines and a bit of text. the text it creates is actually data. when you use the section tool in a plan view for example, you are drawing the section bug notation but as you drop it in, it automatically creates that section in another view (it is cutting you model). in plan, if you grab that section you can drag it around, and the corresponding section view is updating for wherever that bug is cutting the plan... as with any view, you can drop those plans and sections onto sheets, etc. as you throw that section view onto a sheet, it knows that the section is on that particular sheet so the bug automatically updates on the plan... in other words, your drawing references are not just dumb text but everything is data in a database in the background. as an analogy, it is like the difference between Microsoft Word (dumb text) vs. Microsoft Excel (data)
- in this way, everything is connected in a database in the background, when you change the name of a sheet, it updates every call-out of that sheet... when you change the name of a detail (the name of that detail view) it updates on the title of the drawing sheet...
- all families can be customized, and edited and new versions of families made. so for example you can create a custom family of a door, say you want to make a new type of door... you can use the family editor and make a custom door family, say a pivot door... once you've made a custom door, you can drop it into any wall... door families know that they sit in a wall family... so there is a hierarchy to these objects... a mullion family knows it sits on a curtainwall grid, a furniture component family knows that it sits on a floor surface, etc... It's easy to drop in objects, once you have a family you can drop it in with the appropriate tool from the tool bar... so you could create custom families for furniture, or doors, or whatever...
- anything you need to document and produce construction documents is built into the software... schedules... a door schedule can be created and it will automatically generate it based on the actual door objects you have in the model...
- there is alot more it can do... area schedules... basically it is all data... "building information modelling" which means that everything has data built in and more and more tools are being developed to make use of that data... you can use it to get quantities of materials for costing, etc.
- autodesk has separated revit into the different disciplines... different variations of the software with discipline specific tools, but each of these versions of revit talk to each other... in other words: as architects, we use "Revit Architecture (used to be called "Revit Building")... There is "Revit Mechanical" for mechanical engineers, "Revit Structural" for structural engineers... The tools built into each package is specific to that discipline, for example, revit mechanical I believe will allow mechanical engineers to automatically size mechanical units and ducts based on the volumes of rooms as the mechanical engineer gets the architectural model... the room actually has a size since it is a smart 3D object... also you should be able to check for collisions between say the structure or architecture with mechanical ducts for example...
- in general, right now it is harder to model a complex surface in a revit than in something like Max (a surface modeller)... so something like the sagrada familia is more difficult to do... however, i believe that you can import your dumb geometry from something like max into revit and there is a way to "map a wall" onto that surface... your wall object will follow that surface... in real life, how would you build that though? for complex organic objects, and to fabricate them you are better off using other more advanced software, revit is not your best option for that kind of thing right now
- there are certain efficiencies possible with revit
- revit models can be used by contractors as well... by having all information there in the model, it can be a useful communication tool...
- some cities are starting to use revit... you might be able to submit a revit model for a permit application in the future, hand them the model on a disk
A dynamic process used to create and manage building projects in real time through 3Dimensional representation. It uses coordinated, internally consistent, and computable information about a building project in design and construction.
Simple definition: Building a 3D model WITH information.
Revit is essentially a database. You input information about building elements and their relationships to one another and that information is graphically represented in different ways (ie- plan, section, elevation, 3D, schedules, etc). The DATA housed within the model is invaluable. It can be utilized through out the lifecycle of the project and even downstream for construction and retrofit.
The beauty of this type of software is that it limits the amount of repetitive work you have to do because the building information only has to be added one time, but you can query it and represent it in countless different ways.
One of the coolest and definitely most important features of BIM is the way you are able to interact with the work done by your consultants. You are able to link their 3D models into your 3D model so you can have a comprehensive understanding about how the different disciplines work comes together. You can run clash detections and graphically see where there will be problems in the field. If all the consultants are on board and positive, this promotes a greater level of communication, project understanding, and (ideally) a much more efficient and well thought out building. They call it Intrgrated Project Delivery (IPD) and it is the way of the future.
I asked if he was a student, because they are generally only interested in your paragraph about organic modelling. They can care less about the whole, annotation, documentation, schedule story. A waste of time writing all of that. But then again, if he is an employee, than the information is very useful .
If you're using the 2010 version, Revit's massing tools aren't bad. Although, making a full set of CDs out of walls roofs and floors generated 'by face' can be problematic. Honestly, anything with a lot of crazy angles should be done in Rhino/grasshopper and then documented in CAD. It sucks, but Revit isn't there yet.
While i can agree on using something like Rhino because most people are more comfortable and profecient in it, using CAD however for documentation on those projects is like digging a swimming pool with a spoon. Firms that do that have a zillion free interns drafting and coordination everything manually. it's a pain.
However, I have seen many projects done in Revit and Rhino. You just need to know how.
that's a problem... that in school they are not concerned with documentation... what is it they think architects do exactly? we design buildings and administer their construction...
schools need to get real... i'm not saying lose the cutting edge organic forms, but make it more real by educating in a way that is about real practice... you have to know how to build things... if you are going to play with organic forms, you should be learning about digital fabrication technologies and actually *doing it* not just playing with form making
and that education needs to get real in terms of the smarts built in, cost for example... how do you relate that creative form making and fabrication to a smart solution to doing something new but as a cost effective technology... being able to actually make it, and not just dreaming about it...
because... sorry to say, i think that shit is cool, but its not going to help you get a job out of school... if you actually made something using it, that might be different...
but if you are going to learn generative components, at least learn revit first... at least be able to "walk down the street or ride a bike" before you try to do "advanced acrobatics"...
if you cannot even draw a standard curtain wall detail, what is the point in pointing at a form and saying it is an organic curtain wall?
Hans, I am not sure if you are a student. By the looks of your interest in Rhino and organic forms I would assume you are. I am not going to go into a 4 page explanation of Revit, BIM, and IPD... Instead, I will direct you to my website:
I am a student using Revit. I have over 400 posts about Revit (including lots of tutorials) and it is geared mostly geared towards students.
Brink, I agree with you about not stressing the actual constuction of buildings in school. I beleive that if Revit was used more in the design studios it would force students to learn how a building goes together. After all, you cannot build a digital model of the building without knowing how a building goes together.
be as creative and imaginative as you possibly can in school
push the limits
dont be bogged down with actually knowing how it will be built
you have the rest of your career to figure that shit out
that is part of the mystery and discovery of architecture
bRink has been corrupted by the real world and has become cynical and jaded he has been sucked in by the matrix
"don't be bogged down with actually knowing how it will be built"
Yes -- in this economy, that's a sure fire way to get a job when you graduate! Firms that are scraping just to get by love to hire people who need lots of extra training before they can make a basic contribution.
Isn't that sorta like saying to a medical student -- "don't worry about surgical procedure -- as long as you know where the heart is located and which valve is malfunctioning, you eventually will figure out how to sew the patient back up after you cut on his heart."
aquillathenun... lol... true... architecture school is basically like a Morpheus training regimen...
*****
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]
Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?
Neo: I was...
Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.
[the woman in the red dress is now Agent Smith, pointing a gun at Neo's head; Neo ducks]
Morpheus: Freeze it.
[Everybody and everything besides Neo and Morpheus freezes in time]
Neo: This... this isn't the Matrix?
Morpheus: No. It is another training program designed to teach you one thing: if you are not one of us, you are one of them.
*****
Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
*****
Morpheus: Free your mind.
[Morpheus jumps from one building to another a long distance away]
Neo: Whoa.
*****
Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?
Morpheus: You've never used them before.
*****
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
*****
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.
*****
Morpheus: Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.
*****
Agent Smith: We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start. All that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.
Neo: Yeah. Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal. But I think I may have a better one. How about, I give you the finger
[He does]
Neo: and you give me my phone call.
Trinity: Neo... nobody has ever done this before.
Neo: That's why it's going to work.
*****
Agent Smith: I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it.
Aquilla: you're a pretentious a**hole ... you know nothing about me ... people with attitudes like yours look to people like me for employment ... when we're willing to even give you job.
Given your stated willingness to steal and not learn anything beyond the superficial, we probably aren't going to extend employment opportunities very often to your kind when there are lots of thoughtful, ethical, well-rounded professionals to choose from these day.
There needs to be a balance, or better an integration of creativity with practice... We are an ideas profession, but our ideas become credible when they are backed by technical knowledge and an interest in real world issues and needs...
Maybe architecture education and the internship development program ought to go hand in hand... integrate IDP with architecture school... one semester of school + one semseter of work in the field, alternate it, etc... And then once you graduate you have a stacked portfolio of real work experience alongside the amazing creative work from studio projects... Would benefit the profession and maybe actually make studio design work stronger IMHO... The degree --> IDP --> ARE's hoops seem a little bit too sequential maybe... WHat if they were all integrated? It might actually make the core technical coursework in a degree program seem more relevant to actually see it used in practice and then you could have students apply what they learn directly by taking the ARE's alongside the degree... Would make the licensure process more direct, less drawn out and academic programs more directly relevant to work in the industry...
I'm all for free exploration and creative design development, this is essential I think, we are still an ideas profession and innovation is paramount to what we do... But it's important that architectural graduates be able to come out of school and be able to back up their designs with real world knowledge... I think the point is only trying to resolve some of the problems that graduates coming out of school are facing in a tough job market... Architects cannot survive in the current world by remaining silo'ed in our small circles of architect communities... We should be connecting with all kinds of other design professionals - planners, landscape architects, engineers, business leaders, politicians, end users, product manufacturers and designers, artists, graphic designers, researchers, builders, craftspeople, consultants, and other professionals who will be our clients... We need to connect with other economic actors, the rest of society, people who will occupy the things we create, the places we invent, buy into the ideas we propose, work with us to finance and make the ideas we have a reality, and be a little more relevant to society...
I'm all for imagination and "dreamers" but lets step up and take that to the next level which is to make some real impact in our work, careers, the economy and world around us... Dreamers are one thing, but dreamers who have the meat to back it up is what we need to actually make a difference... Dreamers + skillsets to back it up is what we should equip graduates with coming out of school... Imagine how much more effective those ideas would be, and how much more potential we would have as a profession... This is really about giving wheels to ideas... Truth is, it is the guy who is detailing that dream for the dreamer that is the real person behind the steering wheel... They are the ones who own the project... Better to be both and...
Not saying that this doesn't happen already, but this is only a response to the comments that: "I asked if he was a student, because they are generally only interested in your paragraph about organic modelling. They can care less about the whole, annotation, documentation, schedule story."
Not sure, just 2 cents... I still consider myself a dreamer, and there are plenty of creative people out in the real world making good buildings, who create real exceptional and relevant work. I certainly don't think the most interesting work is happening in isolated self-exploration in design studios... The most interesting work happens as a collaborative creative endeavor, and working with people from different perspectives and areas of expertise... I think it's a little more interesting also, the work, when it's actually trying to make something... Applied art and science... The expertise and being able to pinpoint what it is we have expert professional proficiency in is what makes our creative work more credible in a real world where we work alongside all kinds of other professionals and designers... We need to be specific about some things and be able to have intelligent conversations with other professionals in the industry... True you can learn alot out of school, but wouldn't it be better to raise the bar on what it means to graduate from school, the standard of qualification that the degree comes with...?
Getting back to the BIM / revit topic and "organic modelling"... The thing that's most interesting about those technologies isn't just the sort of ability to generate the forms, it's that these can all be tied directly to fabrication... The idea that you can have applications that take whatever parametric geometric form you designed and whatever the configuration, have that immediately output a fabrication layout for example... So in other words, in school, the point being not to focus too much on just the geometry making but what exactly it is that does as a real world practical application... Laser cut that stuff out in sheet metal for example and build it...
Somehow, it's alot more convincing if you can show something you built... Form making isn't as interesting as showing that it's really applicable and relevant for your future potential employer... Anybody can play with forms...
The diagram jaja posted is interesting there... The tie in of Ecotect also... Technologies that can communicate essential environmental data, metrics for your space that influences the design... jaja, can you post that diagram with the rest of it showing or provide a link?
Jan 20, 10 10:47 pm ·
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What exactly is Revit?
I have read a lot about Revit and the information has always been very inconsistent. The formal descriptions of Revit uses so many terms that I further mystifies what it is. Surely it must be a lot simpler than what it is made out to be, right?
The only thing I know for sure is that it is a BIM software, which I don't completely understand what it is. Please explain to me what BIM is.
I played around with a trail version of Revit. Its easy to draw windows, doors, and walls, but everything seems so standard. It doesn't seem like as useful as a tool for architects as many people has suggested. Please tell me why this is or why this isn't a great tool for architects.
My final questions are can Revit produce curves and surfaces that Rhino produces? will it be extremely difficult to model a non-rectilinear building (i.e. Sagrada Familia) in Revit? What is Revit really intended for? is it possible to use a third party renderer with Revit?
Thank you.
Before I answer you questions, i would like to know first if you are a student? And if so, what year?
here's a very general summary... i must be bored...
revit is "parametric modelling":
- (revit is to autocad) as (microsoft excel is to microsoft word)
- revit is like combining all of your 2D drafting with a 3D model
- unlike a regular 2D drafting or 3D modelling software which is dumb lines and 3D geometry, in revit you are basically "building" your building in a virtual model that has materials assigned to objects, data, parameters, etc... so everything is there already, and all objects are connected to each other by relationships...
- you are building a 3D model but all of your drawings are cut from the model, so it is not just 3D modelling, it is also a documentation tool
- generally, everything in your model is a component, what Revit calls a "family" (not necessarily true but as the big idea)... so not really dumb geometry but "walls" and "floor" and "ceiling", real objects that are programmed by somebody (there are a bunch of basic wall types that start out created by autodesk for example)
- you draw with tools similar to a drawing software, say you start in plan and draw in the plan view in 2D... Instead of drawing with lines, you are drawing with the "wall" tool for example. When you draw in plan, in the background, that is actually extruding automatically a 3D wall. you have tools for everything else (ceilings, floors, components like furniture, stairs, etc.)
- when you place something, it is a smart object, has parameters. For example, you can select a wall and define what the height is... what the top of the wall is attached to, and what level it is on, etc... this is why it is called "parametric modelling", because objects have parameters.
- aside from changing these "instance parameters" of a particular object, say a wall, you can also change "type parameters" for that entire family... So when you change a type parameter, it changes it for all walls of that type...
- a wall knows it is a wall. if you select any particular wall, you can change its type to another wall type... it is as easy as changing the layer of a line in autocad... there are no layers in revit, everything is identified by what family it is
- there is only one file in revit. basically all of your drawings are "views" of a 3D model. you can throw those onto drawing sheets, and they update live on the sheet as your model changes. you can render in revit (which creates a raster image), create 3D views (like axons or perspectives, etc.), you can create animations or flythroughs...
- because every drawing is a view of the same 3D model, changes in one place change the model, and all drawings looking at the same part update automatically... for example you move a wall in plan, and that wall moves in RCP and section as well... move one thing and it affects the next thing
- as far as annotation, there are tools that are smart... for example, a detail bug or section bug is not just created as a dumb piece of lines and a bit of text. the text it creates is actually data. when you use the section tool in a plan view for example, you are drawing the section bug notation but as you drop it in, it automatically creates that section in another view (it is cutting you model). in plan, if you grab that section you can drag it around, and the corresponding section view is updating for wherever that bug is cutting the plan... as with any view, you can drop those plans and sections onto sheets, etc. as you throw that section view onto a sheet, it knows that the section is on that particular sheet so the bug automatically updates on the plan... in other words, your drawing references are not just dumb text but everything is data in a database in the background. as an analogy, it is like the difference between Microsoft Word (dumb text) vs. Microsoft Excel (data)
- in this way, everything is connected in a database in the background, when you change the name of a sheet, it updates every call-out of that sheet... when you change the name of a detail (the name of that detail view) it updates on the title of the drawing sheet...
- all families can be customized, and edited and new versions of families made. so for example you can create a custom family of a door, say you want to make a new type of door... you can use the family editor and make a custom door family, say a pivot door... once you've made a custom door, you can drop it into any wall... door families know that they sit in a wall family... so there is a hierarchy to these objects... a mullion family knows it sits on a curtainwall grid, a furniture component family knows that it sits on a floor surface, etc... It's easy to drop in objects, once you have a family you can drop it in with the appropriate tool from the tool bar... so you could create custom families for furniture, or doors, or whatever...
- anything you need to document and produce construction documents is built into the software... schedules... a door schedule can be created and it will automatically generate it based on the actual door objects you have in the model...
- there is alot more it can do... area schedules... basically it is all data... "building information modelling" which means that everything has data built in and more and more tools are being developed to make use of that data... you can use it to get quantities of materials for costing, etc.
- autodesk has separated revit into the different disciplines... different variations of the software with discipline specific tools, but each of these versions of revit talk to each other... in other words: as architects, we use "Revit Architecture (used to be called "Revit Building")... There is "Revit Mechanical" for mechanical engineers, "Revit Structural" for structural engineers... The tools built into each package is specific to that discipline, for example, revit mechanical I believe will allow mechanical engineers to automatically size mechanical units and ducts based on the volumes of rooms as the mechanical engineer gets the architectural model... the room actually has a size since it is a smart 3D object... also you should be able to check for collisions between say the structure or architecture with mechanical ducts for example...
- in general, right now it is harder to model a complex surface in a revit than in something like Max (a surface modeller)... so something like the sagrada familia is more difficult to do... however, i believe that you can import your dumb geometry from something like max into revit and there is a way to "map a wall" onto that surface... your wall object will follow that surface... in real life, how would you build that though? for complex organic objects, and to fabricate them you are better off using other more advanced software, revit is not your best option for that kind of thing right now
- revit has pretty decent renderers now... revit mental ray, etc...
It's like a digital version of Jenga.....
i'd add also:
- there are certain efficiencies possible with revit
- revit models can be used by contractors as well... by having all information there in the model, it can be a useful communication tool...
- some cities are starting to use revit... you might be able to submit a revit model for a permit application in the future, hand them the model on a disk
BIM = Building Information Modeling
A dynamic process used to create and manage building projects in real time through 3Dimensional representation. It uses coordinated, internally consistent, and computable information about a building project in design and construction.
Simple definition: Building a 3D model WITH information.
Revit is essentially a database. You input information about building elements and their relationships to one another and that information is graphically represented in different ways (ie- plan, section, elevation, 3D, schedules, etc). The DATA housed within the model is invaluable. It can be utilized through out the lifecycle of the project and even downstream for construction and retrofit.
The beauty of this type of software is that it limits the amount of repetitive work you have to do because the building information only has to be added one time, but you can query it and represent it in countless different ways.
One of the coolest and definitely most important features of BIM is the way you are able to interact with the work done by your consultants. You are able to link their 3D models into your 3D model so you can have a comprehensive understanding about how the different disciplines work comes together. You can run clash detections and graphically see where there will be problems in the field. If all the consultants are on board and positive, this promotes a greater level of communication, project understanding, and (ideally) a much more efficient and well thought out building. They call it Intrgrated Project Delivery (IPD) and it is the way of the future.
*BIM makes me tingle*
I asked if he was a student, because they are generally only interested in your paragraph about organic modelling. They can care less about the whole, annotation, documentation, schedule story. A waste of time writing all of that. But then again, if he is an employee, than the information is very useful .
Anyhow, as for organic modelling, instead of importing dumb geometry, you can also import the geometry data in Revit through the API which recreate the geometry. Geometry stays smart and editable. http://nmillerarch.blogspot.com/2010/01/streaming-grasshopper-points-into-revit.html
If you're using the 2010 version, Revit's massing tools aren't bad. Although, making a full set of CDs out of walls roofs and floors generated 'by face' can be problematic. Honestly, anything with a lot of crazy angles should be done in Rhino/grasshopper and then documented in CAD. It sucks, but Revit isn't there yet.
While i can agree on using something like Rhino because most people are more comfortable and profecient in it, using CAD however for documentation on those projects is like digging a swimming pool with a spoon. Firms that do that have a zillion free interns drafting and coordination everything manually. it's a pain.
However, I have seen many projects done in Revit and Rhino. You just need to know how.
that's a problem... that in school they are not concerned with documentation... what is it they think architects do exactly? we design buildings and administer their construction...
schools need to get real... i'm not saying lose the cutting edge organic forms, but make it more real by educating in a way that is about real practice... you have to know how to build things... if you are going to play with organic forms, you should be learning about digital fabrication technologies and actually *doing it* not just playing with form making
and that education needs to get real in terms of the smarts built in, cost for example... how do you relate that creative form making and fabrication to a smart solution to doing something new but as a cost effective technology... being able to actually make it, and not just dreaming about it...
because... sorry to say, i think that shit is cool, but its not going to help you get a job out of school... if you actually made something using it, that might be different...
generative components...
but if you are going to learn generative components, at least learn revit first... at least be able to "walk down the street or ride a bike" before you try to do "advanced acrobatics"...
if you cannot even draw a standard curtain wall detail, what is the point in pointing at a form and saying it is an organic curtain wall?
To better understand BIM in a business context, you might find this McGraw Hill download useful: 2009 SmartMarket Report: The Business Value of BIM (available through AIA)
Hans, I am not sure if you are a student. By the looks of your interest in Rhino and organic forms I would assume you are. I am not going to go into a 4 page explanation of Revit, BIM, and IPD... Instead, I will direct you to my website:
www.TheRevitKid.com
I am a student using Revit. I have over 400 posts about Revit (including lots of tutorials) and it is geared mostly geared towards students.
Brink, I agree with you about not stressing the actual constuction of buildings in school. I beleive that if Revit was used more in the design studios it would force students to learn how a building goes together. After all, you cannot build a digital model of the building without knowing how a building goes together.
be as creative and imaginative as you possibly can in school
push the limits
dont be bogged down with actually knowing how it will be built
you have the rest of your career to figure that shit out
that is part of the mystery and discovery of architecture
bRink has been corrupted by the real world and has become cynical and jaded he has been sucked in by the matrix
dont let the man get you down
revit cures cancer
Yes -- in this economy, that's a sure fire way to get a job when you graduate! Firms that are scraping just to get by love to hire people who need lots of extra training before they can make a basic contribution.
Isn't that sorta like saying to a medical student -- "don't worry about surgical procedure -- as long as you know where the heart is located and which valve is malfunctioning, you eventually will figure out how to sew the patient back up after you cut on his heart."
aquillathenun... lol... true... architecture school is basically like a Morpheus training regimen...
*****
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
[Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]
Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?
Neo: I was...
Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.
[the woman in the red dress is now Agent Smith, pointing a gun at Neo's head; Neo ducks]
Morpheus: Freeze it.
[Everybody and everything besides Neo and Morpheus freezes in time]
Neo: This... this isn't the Matrix?
Morpheus: No. It is another training program designed to teach you one thing: if you are not one of us, you are one of them.
*****
Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
*****
Morpheus: Free your mind.
[Morpheus jumps from one building to another a long distance away]
Neo: Whoa.
*****
Neo: Why do my eyes hurt?
Morpheus: You've never used them before.
*****
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
*****
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.
*****
Morpheus: Throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.
*****
Agent Smith: We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start. All that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.
Neo: Yeah. Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal. But I think I may have a better one. How about, I give you the finger
[He does]
Neo: and you give me my phone call.
Trinity: Neo... nobody has ever done this before.
Neo: That's why it's going to work.
*****
Agent Smith: I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it.
why distant when we can get people like you to detail it for us?
we gotta have dreamers too many practical people out there
Aquilla: you're a pretentious a**hole ... you know nothing about me ... people with attitudes like yours look to people like me for employment ... when we're willing to even give you job.
Given your stated willingness to steal and not learn anything beyond the superficial, we probably aren't going to extend employment opportunities very often to your kind when there are lots of thoughtful, ethical, well-rounded professionals to choose from these day.
Hey,
You started it. If you cant handle the heat well, you know what they say...
dont be so delusional my friend
There needs to be a balance, or better an integration of creativity with practice... We are an ideas profession, but our ideas become credible when they are backed by technical knowledge and an interest in real world issues and needs...
Maybe architecture education and the internship development program ought to go hand in hand... integrate IDP with architecture school... one semester of school + one semseter of work in the field, alternate it, etc... And then once you graduate you have a stacked portfolio of real work experience alongside the amazing creative work from studio projects... Would benefit the profession and maybe actually make studio design work stronger IMHO... The degree --> IDP --> ARE's hoops seem a little bit too sequential maybe... WHat if they were all integrated? It might actually make the core technical coursework in a degree program seem more relevant to actually see it used in practice and then you could have students apply what they learn directly by taking the ARE's alongside the degree... Would make the licensure process more direct, less drawn out and academic programs more directly relevant to work in the industry...
I'm all for free exploration and creative design development, this is essential I think, we are still an ideas profession and innovation is paramount to what we do... But it's important that architectural graduates be able to come out of school and be able to back up their designs with real world knowledge... I think the point is only trying to resolve some of the problems that graduates coming out of school are facing in a tough job market... Architects cannot survive in the current world by remaining silo'ed in our small circles of architect communities... We should be connecting with all kinds of other design professionals - planners, landscape architects, engineers, business leaders, politicians, end users, product manufacturers and designers, artists, graphic designers, researchers, builders, craftspeople, consultants, and other professionals who will be our clients... We need to connect with other economic actors, the rest of society, people who will occupy the things we create, the places we invent, buy into the ideas we propose, work with us to finance and make the ideas we have a reality, and be a little more relevant to society...
I'm all for imagination and "dreamers" but lets step up and take that to the next level which is to make some real impact in our work, careers, the economy and world around us... Dreamers are one thing, but dreamers who have the meat to back it up is what we need to actually make a difference... Dreamers + skillsets to back it up is what we should equip graduates with coming out of school... Imagine how much more effective those ideas would be, and how much more potential we would have as a profession... This is really about giving wheels to ideas... Truth is, it is the guy who is detailing that dream for the dreamer that is the real person behind the steering wheel... They are the ones who own the project... Better to be both and...
Not saying that this doesn't happen already, but this is only a response to the comments that: "I asked if he was a student, because they are generally only interested in your paragraph about organic modelling. They can care less about the whole, annotation, documentation, schedule story."
Not sure, just 2 cents... I still consider myself a dreamer, and there are plenty of creative people out in the real world making good buildings, who create real exceptional and relevant work. I certainly don't think the most interesting work is happening in isolated self-exploration in design studios... The most interesting work happens as a collaborative creative endeavor, and working with people from different perspectives and areas of expertise... I think it's a little more interesting also, the work, when it's actually trying to make something... Applied art and science... The expertise and being able to pinpoint what it is we have expert professional proficiency in is what makes our creative work more credible in a real world where we work alongside all kinds of other professionals and designers... We need to be specific about some things and be able to have intelligent conversations with other professionals in the industry... True you can learn alot out of school, but wouldn't it be better to raise the bar on what it means to graduate from school, the standard of qualification that the degree comes with...?
Good points bRink.
Getting back to the BIM / revit topic and "organic modelling"... The thing that's most interesting about those technologies isn't just the sort of ability to generate the forms, it's that these can all be tied directly to fabrication... The idea that you can have applications that take whatever parametric geometric form you designed and whatever the configuration, have that immediately output a fabrication layout for example... So in other words, in school, the point being not to focus too much on just the geometry making but what exactly it is that does as a real world practical application... Laser cut that stuff out in sheet metal for example and build it...
Somehow, it's alot more convincing if you can show something you built... Form making isn't as interesting as showing that it's really applicable and relevant for your future potential employer... Anybody can play with forms...
The diagram jaja posted is interesting there... The tie in of Ecotect also... Technologies that can communicate essential environmental data, metrics for your space that influences the design... jaja, can you post that diagram with the rest of it showing or provide a link?
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