you're not alone. a lot of people holding a professional degree are racking up more debt going back to school (myself included). i was hit by the layoff bug last year, and am currently back in school. i'm convinced it was for the best.

i did the "apply to the big shots" method. i figured that even if i got rejected to all of them, i would still have the credentials needed to pursue my career goals. but i wouldn't exactly recommend limiting your search to the brand name. look at the connections you'll make and the position you can put yourself in. is the program going to be design/researched base? will you get to set your own curriculum? are you interested in digital fabrication? urban planning? sustainability issues? social issues? or do you just want a degree with berkeley or harvard on the diploma? take advantage of these opportunities.

i also took the opportunity to uproot myself. i figured that it was the best opportunity to move to a city that i would consider living in after graduation (especially considering how short a post professional degree program can be). now i can develop new networking relationships with professionals in my new town.

also, a post professional degree gives you the freedom to really take control of your studies. i am just getting into my thesis work, but i am excited about the control that i will have (and i'm fully aware that i may never get this kind of opportunity to design as freely as possible for quite some time).

some advice for your portfolio. each school seems to have a particularly "type" of designer that they gravitate toward. people who got in to the columbia's of the world had large portfolios, filled with process and theory (i'm generalizing here, but that was the impression i got). i feel like i hurt my chances for some of the highly esteemed schools because my portfolio was geared more for landing a job (i was simultaneously interviewing for school and work...and you can see which one won out). my portfolio was short and to the point (geared more toward interviewers and not academia, with only a glance into my process). although, i may just be saying all this to avoid admitting that my work was not top notch.

remember this though. someone, somewhere out there, thought that you were a good candidate for a professional B.Arch. what you do with yourself now is completely up to you, and there really is no pressure on you. sure, the competition will be tight, and classes for post professional degrees are quite small (<15 in my class) but you don't need another degree to become licensed. so play it loose, and see what comes of it.


hope that helps. best of luck.

im going for the M.Arch II as well, but I'm not sure about how much work experience to put in the portfolio. ive worked for 3 different firms, one was starchitectish but it was only a summer intership. The other 2 i worked at during the past 2 years after undergrad.

how stiff is the competition gonna be for 2010 entrance into an M.Arch II? my old professor who typically selectively writes only 2 letters of rec a year wrote 15 this year, for current and former students.

Hi Everyone

It was great to find this thread on post professional MArchII applications for 2010. I am a registered Architect with 4 years experience from New Zealand

I started working on my applications in October last year, after stopping work in July, and only managed to apply for 2 - Harvard GSD and Columbia.

I recently got the rejection letter from Columbia, but my reading was that if I was not accepted at Columbia, chances for Harvard would be slim too. Taking into account my unsatisfactory GRE results.

500
500
4

I was intending to apply to Bartlett and AA and Delft too, but I moved to Australia, and started a new job in January, so I hadn't been able to get the rest of my applications together.

As you can imagine, it is quite difficult to get any mentoring or discussion about these topics within the professional community in New Zealand, so I would appreciate any advice.

My current questions include:

1) Is it a bit late to try and apply for other schools now, should I put it off and try again next year. It is past the AA deadline already, and the website says applications will be accepted on the school's discretion.
I have written to the Bartlett to ask what the deadline is, but I can't get a straight answer. They say they don't have a deadline generally. I don't understand how that could work.
2) Do most of you ask the same referees to write all your recommendation letters? It just seems like a lot to ask (5 letters if you are applying for 5 schools) of one person if they need to tailor it to the school you are going to. Then again if they make it generic isn't it less convincing?

I would also love to see some portfolios

Cheers all

felicity-

sorry to hear about columbia. i wouldnt write the gsd off quite yet. on the other grad discussion i have noticed that people are getting into mit and not gsapp, princeton and not mit, etc. so hope is not lost yet.

i assume that it is too late to apply for bartlett. there are occasions that schools accept late applications, but assuming that since schools are sending out letters already, late application is probably over.

the only one i would consider now would be sciarc. i contacted them friday to ensure that they had received all of my information, which they hadnt, and they said that they had a meeting next friday. i would assume since their applicatio deadline was march first, and they accept the occasional late application, you may have a shot.

i applied to six schools. i had one person write for all six schools. i had a combination of others write for the other schools based on their relationship with me and also to the schools- i.e. some were grads of the schools i was applying to.

lastly, i have been apprehensive about posting my portfolio, but may after i hear from the rest of my schools.

good luck

bucku

Thanks. This has really helped me figure out my options.


As I am finding the new job quite interesting, I think it wouldn't be a total loss if I waited till next year and do it over again.

What I really do need to know, is what they are looking for. Passionate architects are a dime a dozen. I can spend the next six months working hard to find the right 'fit', but it would be hugely helpful to get some pointers on general direction.

Any pointers on good web resources you can share - ie. getting to know the schools, forums, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Best of luck of your applications.

Look forward to seeing some portfolios come through once this all blows over.

by "what they are looking for" i assume you are speaking of the admissions committee and what they look for in a potential student. i do not think that there is a definitive answer to this. surely each school looks for different attributes in applicants.

as for application materials, this has been discussed widely on this board and i believe that the consensus is that the portfolio is the most heavily weighted item in an application followed by recommendations and letter of intent. depending on schools, the gre and gpa matter more heavily. some schools, gsapp and pratt for example, do not require the gre. also, in the post professional programs they may look to experience. cooper union requires all applicants of their post professional program to have at least one year of experience.

as for getting to know schools, the one thing that i really suggest is to look at the student work, the staff work, and the alumni work. this is the best view into studio focus and often pedagogy within the program. i used to look at gsapp's website almost ritualistically and still look at the bartlett to get excited in my mundane professional life.

while sorting through all of this information i also believe it is imperative to find what YOU want in a school as much as what they have to offer. are you research oriented, do you want to learn more about digital application, do you enjoy the theory aspect, etc. many schools offer all of these or none of these and so it is important to place value on your goals.

this is getting pretty long now.

Felicity, I'd still encourage you to apply to the AA (and perhaps the Bartlett). A few years ago, a friend of mine decided to apply to the AA Landscape Urbanism program very late (like in May/June, only 3 months before the term started) and she was admitted. It seems like those schools that are a bit cagey about their deadlines still consider applicants until classes are full, and maybe even after if an exceptional portfolio comes in. So you never know...

I really appreciate the responses on this discussion, i honestly did not realize it's resurrection until tonight.

I am starting to receive some acceptances (thankfully) to my short list of schools, one of them being the same school i received my original B. Arch professional degree from.

What is the general opinion about returning to your alma mater for a masters?

I would be getting it for much much cheaper, but in the long run is it worth it?
Should I try and pay more for a different degree at a much higher ranked school to which i've also been accepted?

Thanks for the help guys and gals. Good luck in the next month.

Can any Spanish speakers give me their impressions of this http://mpaa.dpa-etsam.com/ ? Looks like an interesting and very affordable masters by ETSAMadrid, but doesn't quite follow the "standard" M.Arch curriculum that we see in the States, UK etc. Since I already have a B.Arch from UTSOA, I'm looking to expand my horizons and raise my level of investigation and output. Without going 40k further into debt, this looks like a good option. Your thoughts please.

Thanks Bucku... I have to be a bit more onto it I think....... I have been averse to too much Design exposure, especially online..... but i think ill have to get over it...

Thanks blanco... Looking into it...

Shakleford - I guess the answer to your question lies in your measure of "worth".
For example, after a whole lot of $$$ and time, an additional MArchII in itself will most likely not yield a great return on employability compared to the BArch you already have. In some instances, it may even make you less employable than before. It may however, get you the foot in the door to do work that you enjoy and find fulfilling. It may also just simply delight you, in the fantastical questions you would be able to pursue.

I have to say though, it is very interesting to encounter different "cultures" of practice and discourse. I studied and worked for a total of 9 years in the same city. As unique as we all thought we were in relation to each other, there was a certain "DNA" that connected my perception to that of my local academia and professional bodies. It was so ingrained that it only become perceptible when I stepped outside that bubble of influence. But when I did, it stretched brain muscles that I didn't know I had....

However, I do not encourage the totally idealistic position of forever prioritizing "investment in yourself". Some people are in a position to make certain choices, some are not. It is not unfair, it is simply the way it is. Check out this self-confessional article if you have some time... may or may not be your cup of tea...

http://www.meghandaum.com/articles_by/art_by_misspent_youth.html


So, take a realistic look at your finances, what are you after, what are you willing to pay for, and how long is it going to take for you to pay it off.

cheers

Are there any M. Arch II Grads out there who care to voice their opinion on the benefits of getting the masters of arch. on a different campus from the bachelor's of arch?

Thanks

Hey felicity, and everyone else.

I am also from new zealand. Just graduated M.arch first-professional in Auckland University here in NZ last year and applied to a couple of schools in the states : Upenn (been dreaming to get here for 4 years) and Pratt.

Wanted to apply for GSD and columbia but I probably had no chance. But I got in to both Upenn and Pratt for M.Arch post professional. Now, the main concern is that would 1 year of M.arch post professional be that worth? I mean it's one year. Of cource I thank God and all the panel members who accepted me when I know that the competition has increased. But afterall, will 1 year M.arch help that much in terms of getting a job or doing phd later on?

cheers

Hey all, I applied this year to get a ppd in Urban Design. My first degree is an M.Arch in '07. I mainly looked at programs that were outside of the US, taking a page out of the same book as newguy, and relocating myself.

@Rusty - Every professor that I ever asked or other person that I talked to recommended getting your post-pro from another school. It diversifies you, and (hopefully) introduces you to a completely different approach.

For me, it is worth it to go back for the one year, because I will be focusing on a different area of design. One of my friends is going back because she wants to teach eventually, and at most schools, you need a post-pro to become tenured.

An adjustment to my last comment. You can have a PhD as well to become tenured. If it were me and I was eventually thinking of getting a PhD, I would skip the second Masters and just try for a PhD. I think that you can do it, and it would take away one step in the process.

I was just rejected from Upenn for Phd. hahaha...

I think talking and discussing make me more confused and depressing.. (no offense Sounder)

I should just stick to what I believe is beneficial!! argh

None taken. Sorry to hear that UPenn didn't work out.
Did you apply to anywhere else?

Originally I wanted to do phd. But the professor at Yale, who helped me so much, strongly recommended me not to because she said phd in the States is very history-based research, when I wanted to do a design-thesis.

Always carrying the dream of becoming an academic / professor, I will try when I am ready. I am sure I wasn't matured enough to take on PhD.

Sounder, I have applied for M.Arch (post-professional) at Upenn and Pratt, got into both of them, but not phd at Upenn. haha.

ijecheon..

Doesn't the GSD have a PHD called DDes...Doctorate in Design Studies? I don't know much about it, but know that it is there. Maybe this is a possibility?

Anyway..I have been working for 10 years and now jumping back into school. Going to the GSD open house tomorrow as an MArch II ..should be quite a change of scenery.

are you willing to look in Europe?
the PHD in Architectural Design at the Bartlett is a decent program.