i don't have the experience, but m.arch programs deal with lots of 3D. i would go for power to be on the safer side unless you plan on using the studio computers.
as much as I'd like the answer to be "yes" I think it's really "probably not" (based on my recent research, and personal decision / purchase of a not-mac)
But they're so pretty.
But... (and maybe somebody can refute this)
maybe not the right choice.
What do you want to run on it?
In a few years, Mac'll have Autocad and Rhino. Right now they do the Adobe Suite and Maya (Although I've heard maya's buggy on a mac...)...Cue the "what about archicad?" contingent.....
In my decision, I felt that if I got one, I'd be running everything on windows anyway, which just seemed like a silly option. And then when I did want to run photoshop on the mac side, it'd be an odd ordeal of running a sub-program (or rebooting) etc to do it right. I feel that I'd multi-task too much for me to be comfortable on it.
For me, a computer's a tool, so as much as I'd like to favor a pretty interface and well designed object (which I truly believe) the specifications of the MacBook Pro as a tool weren't what I was looking for in a computer.
Technically (and financially speaking), for a similar price, you can get a much more "appropriate" windows-running laptop....the cad-oriented graphics card, a bit more processing power, a hint of upgradeability (although, maybe not really), and a utilitarian not-aluminum box that it goes in.
Take all this with a grain of salt; I just know I was in the same situation a month ago (as in: OMG I want a mac, but maybe not...) and opted out.
I bought a Lenovo from their outlet. It's still in processing/transit. We'll see how it works.
I own a MacBook Pro that's actually being sent back to Cupertino for service at the moment. Thankfully it's under warranty (I bought AppleCare) for the logic board replacement. Mac Rhino is coming along but still nowhere near the usefulness or flexibility of windows rhino and it's really lacking some fundamental plugin support; read: grasshopper and vray.
In my architecture program "trinity" of Rhino, AutoCAD and Adobe CS, only CS really runs well on mac. I find myself still using my five year old Dell with WinXP to run workflows when I'm charretting. While the MacBook is pretty, extremely portable, and very flexable in terms of running multiple OS's, at the end of the day I still find myself using windows when it comes to to actual work.
As much as I think this, I can guarantee you there are as strong of arguments from the Vectorworks/ArchiCAD/Sketchup Mac camps. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference. Do your homework, look at what programs you use most frequently and go from there.
PC all the way! Sure there will be some who disagree, but...
I have heard horror stories about crashes involving architecture students and macs...you will be constantly running windows for AutoCAD, Rhino, and I'm sure some other programs.
Their beauty, I believe, is only skin deep when used for architectural purposes...on the other hand, I did use my school's mac-lab for creating my portfolio
Research your grad program and see what software is being used. Yes the MacBook Pro does not natively run AutoCAD, although in my grad program I think I opened AutoCAD once, maybe twice. I did however use almost every Abode Suite program and can say from personal experience I was much happier when I finally got a MacBook Pro compliment to my desktop PC to run them all. On the PC I could barely get one Abode application to load (with 4 processors, 4gb ram and a decent graphics card) let alone the 2 or 3 you generally need at one time (Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign). The Mac on the other hand worked between all 3 and then some.
And really since you can run the stuff you need on the PC with bootcamp or parallels it's not even that big of a deal. In terms of "bugging" or crashing, shits just as bad as a PC. Maya is an amazingly powerful program but it crashes all the time regardless of platform. Same can be said for just about anything.
Either way your handicapped. The Mac has less "traditional technical drafting (i.e. autocad, rhino)" options (although I head solidworks is awesome) but is far superior when it comes to presentation and design. The PC might be more option flexible, but sucks when you need to make presentation boards (and don't even get me started on Vista).
I'm starting to consider an upgrade - my laptop has been kicking around for four years and is finally starting to show its age- and I've been struggling with the Mac/PC debate as well. From where I stand I think I'll have to stay PC. From what I've seen of the Mac release for Rhino it is still ages away from the usefulness of the PC version and as far as I know there will never be a Mac release of MasterCAM. That being said, everything else I do makes me want a Mac (and god, they are sexy...). If you're not going past Sketch-up/ArchiCad for 3D modeling you can probably get by with a Mac. I've never used boot-camp so I can't comment on how well that works but if you'll be bouncing between Rhino, Illustrator and InDesign the way I do you'll probably want them on the same OS.
Rhino has actually been progressing pretty well for Mac and I think McNell has been pretty smart to realize the potential marketshare they can gain when they get it finished.
Honestly I can't reiterate how crappy Abode applications run on PC's. Really.
Also you have to consider any new PC you purchase will inevitably come with Vista installed which alone is worth a second thought. Vista has done nothing but ruin my life. It has to be the worst operating system ever made and is nothing but a huge memory suck. Make sure you get at least 4GB of memory on any new PC because I am pretty sure Vista eats half of it.
Morse- do you know if they're planning on getting the plug-ins and scripting compatible with Mac? If that's the case then I may need to re-evaluate. Clever name btw...
10 - IF you're going to be using a fair amount of software that runs best (or exclusively) in Windows, I personally don't think a Mac is worth the extra cost. Running in Bootcamp is fine, but then you're working in Windows anyhow (viruses, etc.), so what's the benefit of having a Mac? Regarding Parallels - according to the Apple folks themselves (I've asked) running Parallels impacts performance significantly. So while the concept of working in Adobe CS on the Mac side and various CADCAM/3d software on the Windows side sounds great, it just isn't realistic if you need high performance. Sure, it's do-able, but with Parallels the Mac isn't being all it can be...
I just finished going through this pc/mac decision myself. In the end I configured a Toshiba with the following specs (cost around $1200 - a Mac with slightly lesser specs came in at $1700 w/an educational discount):
Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 2.8ghz
4GB RAM
320GB HDD (7200rpm)
512mb dedicated RAM video card with an add'l 256mb borrowed RAM
16" screen
Vista Ultimate 64bit
Hopefully this debate will fizzle away within the next several years (with Rhino etc. working at 100% on Macs), but until then, a PC seems to be the most logical choice for tech/software-heavy grad school use.
I've used a MacBook pro for less than a year and went the bootcamp route. CAD/bim where installed on the bootcamp side and Adobe and Office where installed on mac os x. It was quite pain goin back and fort between os. I decided to install everything on the bootcamp side which essentiely made it a Windows machine. At that time the macs had issues with 64 bit Vista too. I've sold the mac and went for a Windows machine.
That said, always chose the software first, then the hardware.
you can build a wa wa way better computer for $1600. Intel Core i7, Nvidia Quadro 1800 gpu, 6gb Ram, 1TB HD, plus 22" Samsung LCD. Has anyone experience with such DIY? Is the price/performance graph ignorant of the reliability matrix? Where is the cutoff? A similar machine by Lenovo would cost $2500+. Where does the buck stop?
Horn.MP:
I personally don't see some of the plugins making the switch over unless they start from the ground up, although I could easily be wrong. Grasshopper is based on VB.net (I believe) and the large majority of scripts written for Rhino are either VBscript or VB.net - all of which won't make a translation onto the Mac. Rhino 5 supports Python for coding, which means it can be implemented on either the Mac or the PC side. All that being said, I can't stand working on the Mac version of Rhino - I'll take the PC version any day. I run Rhino, AutoCAD, GIMP, etc. via VMWare when needed. The only time I use Bootcamp is when I need to get VRay output without the speed hit of only using one core.
what if the computer breaks when I am supposed to be working on masterpieces, I will have to be tech support guy, is this worth paying for buy getting an HP?
absolutely yes.
i did. many have.
those that say no, dont know because they did not. (exceptions would only be someone who tried and switched horses in mid stream - and then one must wonder why exactly)
ftr, i currently use both systems. each has its pros and cons. you can achieve almost anything on either - with each having their own benefits and problems. but bottom line is you can definitely, unequivocally, w no problem do a m.arch with a macbook.
I know its not fair to compare laptops with desktops, but PC laptops just scare me. So I am going to compare the macbook pro with a pc desktop I will build myself, with my cold dead hands.
MacBook Pro for M.Arch? Please say yes.
Who can say the macbook pro would be an appropriate purchase for a fresh m.arch? Please say yes?
Or the home build. Would get both if I could, but not an option currently. Opinions? Portability? Power? Upgradeability? What matters?
depends on what you want, portability or power. they don't come together unless you pay for it.
i don't have the experience, but m.arch programs deal with lots of 3D. i would go for power to be on the safer side unless you plan on using the studio computers.
I feel your pain.
as much as I'd like the answer to be "yes" I think it's really "probably not" (based on my recent research, and personal decision / purchase of a not-mac)
But they're so pretty.
But... (and maybe somebody can refute this)
maybe not the right choice.
What do you want to run on it?
In a few years, Mac'll have Autocad and Rhino. Right now they do the Adobe Suite and Maya (Although I've heard maya's buggy on a mac...)...Cue the "what about archicad?" contingent.....
In my decision, I felt that if I got one, I'd be running everything on windows anyway, which just seemed like a silly option. And then when I did want to run photoshop on the mac side, it'd be an odd ordeal of running a sub-program (or rebooting) etc to do it right. I feel that I'd multi-task too much for me to be comfortable on it.
For me, a computer's a tool, so as much as I'd like to favor a pretty interface and well designed object (which I truly believe) the specifications of the MacBook Pro as a tool weren't what I was looking for in a computer.
Technically (and financially speaking), for a similar price, you can get a much more "appropriate" windows-running laptop....the cad-oriented graphics card, a bit more processing power, a hint of upgradeability (although, maybe not really), and a utilitarian not-aluminum box that it goes in.
Take all this with a grain of salt; I just know I was in the same situation a month ago (as in: OMG I want a mac, but maybe not...) and opted out.
I bought a Lenovo from their outlet. It's still in processing/transit. We'll see how it works.
I own a MacBook Pro that's actually being sent back to Cupertino for service at the moment. Thankfully it's under warranty (I bought AppleCare) for the logic board replacement. Mac Rhino is coming along but still nowhere near the usefulness or flexibility of windows rhino and it's really lacking some fundamental plugin support; read: grasshopper and vray.
In my architecture program "trinity" of Rhino, AutoCAD and Adobe CS, only CS really runs well on mac. I find myself still using my five year old Dell with WinXP to run workflows when I'm charretting. While the MacBook is pretty, extremely portable, and very flexable in terms of running multiple OS's, at the end of the day I still find myself using windows when it comes to to actual work.
As much as I think this, I can guarantee you there are as strong of arguments from the Vectorworks/ArchiCAD/Sketchup Mac camps. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference. Do your homework, look at what programs you use most frequently and go from there.
almost in a similar position, been using my powerbook for 4 years, need a new laptop, and as much as i want a mac, i dont think that will happen,,
jacob explained it well
PC all the way! Sure there will be some who disagree, but...
I have heard horror stories about crashes involving architecture students and macs...you will be constantly running windows for AutoCAD, Rhino, and I'm sure some other programs.
Their beauty, I believe, is only skin deep when used for architectural purposes...on the other hand, I did use my school's mac-lab for creating my portfolio
Research your grad program and see what software is being used. Yes the MacBook Pro does not natively run AutoCAD, although in my grad program I think I opened AutoCAD once, maybe twice. I did however use almost every Abode Suite program and can say from personal experience I was much happier when I finally got a MacBook Pro compliment to my desktop PC to run them all. On the PC I could barely get one Abode application to load (with 4 processors, 4gb ram and a decent graphics card) let alone the 2 or 3 you generally need at one time (Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign). The Mac on the other hand worked between all 3 and then some.
And really since you can run the stuff you need on the PC with bootcamp or parallels it's not even that big of a deal. In terms of "bugging" or crashing, shits just as bad as a PC. Maya is an amazingly powerful program but it crashes all the time regardless of platform. Same can be said for just about anything.
Either way your handicapped. The Mac has less "traditional technical drafting (i.e. autocad, rhino)" options (although I head solidworks is awesome) but is far superior when it comes to presentation and design. The PC might be more option flexible, but sucks when you need to make presentation boards (and don't even get me started on Vista).
I'm starting to consider an upgrade - my laptop has been kicking around for four years and is finally starting to show its age- and I've been struggling with the Mac/PC debate as well. From where I stand I think I'll have to stay PC. From what I've seen of the Mac release for Rhino it is still ages away from the usefulness of the PC version and as far as I know there will never be a Mac release of MasterCAM. That being said, everything else I do makes me want a Mac (and god, they are sexy...). If you're not going past Sketch-up/ArchiCad for 3D modeling you can probably get by with a Mac. I've never used boot-camp so I can't comment on how well that works but if you'll be bouncing between Rhino, Illustrator and InDesign the way I do you'll probably want them on the same OS.
Rhino has actually been progressing pretty well for Mac and I think McNell has been pretty smart to realize the potential marketshare they can gain when they get it finished.
Honestly I can't reiterate how crappy Abode applications run on PC's. Really.
Also you have to consider any new PC you purchase will inevitably come with Vista installed which alone is worth a second thought. Vista has done nothing but ruin my life. It has to be the worst operating system ever made and is nothing but a huge memory suck. Make sure you get at least 4GB of memory on any new PC because I am pretty sure Vista eats half of it.
Morse- do you know if they're planning on getting the plug-ins and scripting compatible with Mac? If that's the case then I may need to re-evaluate. Clever name btw...
10 - IF you're going to be using a fair amount of software that runs best (or exclusively) in Windows, I personally don't think a Mac is worth the extra cost. Running in Bootcamp is fine, but then you're working in Windows anyhow (viruses, etc.), so what's the benefit of having a Mac? Regarding Parallels - according to the Apple folks themselves (I've asked) running Parallels impacts performance significantly. So while the concept of working in Adobe CS on the Mac side and various CADCAM/3d software on the Windows side sounds great, it just isn't realistic if you need high performance. Sure, it's do-able, but with Parallels the Mac isn't being all it can be...
I just finished going through this pc/mac decision myself. In the end I configured a Toshiba with the following specs (cost around $1200 - a Mac with slightly lesser specs came in at $1700 w/an educational discount):
Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 2.8ghz
4GB RAM
320GB HDD (7200rpm)
512mb dedicated RAM video card with an add'l 256mb borrowed RAM
16" screen
Vista Ultimate 64bit
Hopefully this debate will fizzle away within the next several years (with Rhino etc. working at 100% on Macs), but until then, a PC seems to be the most logical choice for tech/software-heavy grad school use.
I've used a MacBook pro for less than a year and went the bootcamp route. CAD/bim where installed on the bootcamp side and Adobe and Office where installed on mac os x. It was quite pain goin back and fort between os. I decided to install everything on the bootcamp side which essentiely made it a Windows machine. At that time the macs had issues with 64 bit Vista too. I've sold the mac and went for a Windows machine.
That said, always chose the software first, then the hardware.
+1 for skipping the mac tax.
noooooooooooooooooo
you can build a wa wa way better computer for $1600. Intel Core i7, Nvidia Quadro 1800 gpu, 6gb Ram, 1TB HD, plus 22" Samsung LCD. Has anyone experience with such DIY? Is the price/performance graph ignorant of the reliability matrix? Where is the cutoff? A similar machine by Lenovo would cost $2500+. Where does the buck stop?
no
yes building a machine like you priced is very easy and a good choice
you can even run OsX as a Hackintosh if you want to on most any PC
who would you choose?
john hodgman is way funnier than that other asshole.
as an apple shareholder....
unequivocally yes.
Horn.MP:
I personally don't see some of the plugins making the switch over unless they start from the ground up, although I could easily be wrong. Grasshopper is based on VB.net (I believe) and the large majority of scripts written for Rhino are either VBscript or VB.net - all of which won't make a translation onto the Mac. Rhino 5 supports Python for coding, which means it can be implemented on either the Mac or the PC side. All that being said, I can't stand working on the Mac version of Rhino - I'll take the PC version any day. I run Rhino, AutoCAD, GIMP, etc. via VMWare when needed. The only time I use Bootcamp is when I need to get VRay output without the speed hit of only using one core.
Yes.
what if the computer breaks when I am supposed to be working on masterpieces, I will have to be tech support guy, is this worth paying for buy getting an HP?
absolutely yes.
i did. many have.
those that say no, dont know because they did not. (exceptions would only be someone who tried and switched horses in mid stream - and then one must wonder why exactly)
ftr, i currently use both systems. each has its pros and cons. you can achieve almost anything on either - with each having their own benefits and problems. but bottom line is you can definitely, unequivocally, w no problem do a m.arch with a macbook.
the question should be: "should i be doing a March at all?" ;)
why should that be the question?
are you implying that considering using a mac renders one unqualified to study for a m.arch?
I know its not fair to compare laptops with desktops, but PC laptops just scare me. So I am going to compare the macbook pro with a pc desktop I will build myself, with my cold dead hands.
Macbook pro:
Specs here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ6sp3X_LVk&feature=related
Price: $2250 w/ external monitor
PC Homebuld:
Intel core i7 920 (2.66ghz)
Nvidia Quadro fx 1800 GPU
12gb ocz RAM
1TB WD HD
Samsung 22" LCD
(other stuff)
price: $1726
I submit this as exhibit A.
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