Starting my MARCH at U. Mich this summer and wanted some advice on the best laptop to get for school. Prefer a big screen and fast, able to run lots of programs all open at once (ie Rhino, AutoCad photoshop etc). Budget around 1500. PC person.
i have a 1.5 year old dell xps M1530 (top of the line at the time) and I often have rhino, auotocad, and photoshop running simultaneously with no glitches. i don't think you need 8GB of ram for that (i just have 4) and my processor is a duo core2. i would reccomend at least a 512MB graphics card though.
i would blow the budget a little and get a top of the line laptop right now that will last and keep you on par for the 3 years you'll be in school. it's a worthwhile investment.
you can build a system full of pwnage for 1000 + 250 for a great monitor. then spend 300-400 on a portable netbook for taking notes in class, email, and web browsing.
if i could do it all over again and had netbooks between at the price they are right now, i'd have built my own desktop earlier and bought one of those.
in the end, i ended up building myself a desktop for thesis / the year before thesis.... the difference in power compared to my macbook is astounding.
that's where im about to finish up my m.arch...
i seriously suggest the netbook + desktop combo. you're definitely gonna have enough room to keep a desktop in the studio. just chain it up.
ThinkPad - obscenely durable & well made which is nice in a studio environment. If you really need to occasionally run something other than Windows (and Vista Ultimate 64 really has been quite stable for me), dual boot your machine with your favorite version of Linux.
Four gigs and a dual core will do the trick and will run whatever you realistically need to have open all at once. Dot is right though, get the best you can, just wait as long as possible to get it. Graphics card is real important too.
Check the software requirements for the software you'll be running and give yourself a nice cushion.
Oh, and don't check the price of your rig down the road after you've bought it - it's so sad when 6 months later your machine now costs much less because the technology leapfrogged.
I suggest checking out dell's refurbished store online if you don't mind buying refurbished. From the review I've read, the units look brand new, sometimes only a small scratch on the body and you get the full warranty of a new laptop with the option to buy more if you want etc... You can pick up a laptop for nearly half the price of what it would cost brand new. There are deals and coupons being released by dell everyday.
If you want an insanely fast computer, get the Dell M6400 .. 17inch monitors, quad core duo, upgradable to 16GB RAM O_O, or for a smaller screen try the Dell M4400
I will not speak for anyone else here, but I am the "computer geek" of my studio (undergraduate) and recently purchased a new computer. Here is the honest truth about buying a new computer.
I have to get on a soap box for a minute and say that you are much better off with a desktop if you can because they tend to be more reliable and you can get a lot of power for the money, but seeing that you want a laptop here is my advice.
Honestly, the brand doesn't matter...everyone has a favorite, but the reality is that every name brand computer company puts the same quality of parts in their computers and you are subject to the same probability that yours may die prematurely regardless or whether it is a Dell, HP or otherwise. Building your own is the ultimate option because you are buying the parts directly and therefore you can get replacements without a bunch a BS. Again, seeing as though you probably don't want to deal with that (I can't blame you) look at a few specific things.
Graphics processing is primarily dependent on two things: Processor and the graphics card. Contrary to popular belief, having a graphics card doesn't help much when it comes to rendering still images (that is mostly up to your processor), but it does help with real-time model shading and minipulation etc. as you would do in Rhino or photoshop. Look at a quad-core processor (2.2-2.6 ghz) for nice still image rendering speed and for using multiple programs at the same time. There are two types of graphics cards, those for rendering, animation, CAD etc. and those for gaming. Unfortunately most store-bought computers come with gaming graphics cards and while they help marginally, they run using a different primary computing engine then what CAD programs like to hook up with (Google DirectX10 vs OpenGL 2.0 and you'll understand), so having a graphics card with loads of memory is of relatively no help. The best you can do with a store bought computer is a quad core processor, at least 512 mb graphics card (although not that necessary unless you can find one for rendering) 6GB of RAM and a nice hard drive (7200 RPM if you can find it). Remember that all of the parts work interdependently and the better that each one is contributes to overall performace. (Meaning, a beastly processor will do you little good if you have no RAM, a slow hard drive, etc.)
Also be careful with Windows Vista...Stores often give you 64 bit vista versus 32 bit vista and that may not be compatible with Rhino (I know new versions of autocad and photoshop work either way)
To make a long story long...The processor is the most important thing, then RAM and a video card. As some people above have said, 1500 might not be enough, but 2000 should get you there. Laptops are ridiculous in price compared to desktops so expect a difference
Sorry for the long post, but I just went through this process and I ended up doing what was eluded to in another post... I bought the parts and built my own desktop and bought a cheap laptop to supplement. (Cost for insanely nice desktop and ok laptop was about 2150 dollars) Just don't go and buy a piece of garbage from Best Buy. Good luck and happy hunting.
I am running RHino on Windows 7 64bit...I am running Rhino 4 in 32 bit and RHino 5 as 64 bit...there are no problems at all.
I would recommend the HP nw9440...it is their business mobile workstation - which means it has 3 tears warranty included, as all HP business machines do. Thay replaced my motherboard even though I dropped my computer...incredible warranty that Apple would be charging you for.
The video card for these models is the mobile quadro which is a beast...I run the quadro 1500 m and it destroys any geforce card when it comes to cad/3d work...gaming not so much.
I just finished my first year in the M.Arch program here at U.Mich. If I was to buy a new computer now I would certainly get a desktop. The way the studio is setup it lends itself to work well. Software wise you'll use Rhino mostly but 3dsMax is starting to poke it's head back in a little bit. If I were to buy a setup now I would buy a nice desktop for the studio then maybe a small laptop for portability. I saw a commercial the other day for an hp small unit for $200.
You will probably spend another $150 on a good video card...that power supply should be sufficient unless you want to go dual SLI video card down the road. Anyone providing a warranty beyond a 1 year parts warranty?
I just bought an HP XW8600 workstation for $900 and it comes with a 3 tear warranty as it is their business class workstation.
It is a quadcore XEON...and the box is made to handle up to 100+ GB of ram comes with a Quadro card, etc...not to mention you are fully covered for 3 years.
I always prefer to buy business level machines vs. consumer level as the parts are built to last longer and the warranties are much better.
Thanks for all the great responses. Still searching and highly considering the desktop option in order to save money/get more power.
To addictionbomb, LKJR, and any other UMich students or grads...
Sounds like getting a desktop/netbook combo is the way to go. However, if I hope to go abroad, will having a desktop down the road cause problems? Or are there any conflicts with having a desktop for the international studios in the Spring?
Also, school suggests windows xp pro....is windows vista 64bit ok or are there any red flags here? I know there is debate about how Rhino runs on vista...
I recently went through this process, only I had a semester left in undergrad and wanted to get something to last into graduate school. I went for a compromise between portability, otherwise why a laptop?, and performance. I went with a 14 inch Thinkpad t400 with an XP Professional Downgrade, external monitor, and I am extremely happy with it.
I would second/third? the desktop/netbook combo, unless you have ginormous hands :). I had an early Asus eee pc 2G and it was fantastic, but small. Even the largest, beastly-iest "mobile" workstation will never be as fast or as great as a desktop set-up.
If you decide to go with just a laptop, my suggestion to throw into the ring would be to focus on cooling and buy the machine that runs the coolest and uses the least power as that will determine longevity and performance over time. macbooks ALWAYS flame out/crash/slow down after ~6 months because they do not have adequate cooling and the components run too hot to be packed into that sexy metal case. When I was spec'ing my Thinkpad, I chose the particular type of Core2Duo processor that uses the lowest wattage.
My understanding of the Vista debate with software compatibility is that Vista can be a little bit of an unknown, it still can be unpredictable. that some people will have no issues and others will, while running Revit and Rhino. XP is absolutely stable and has been for several years. The other thing to remember is that as a student at large university, you generally have access to a campus tech mart where you can buy different distributions really cheaply later on and upgrade easily to your heart's desire.
The problem with the desktop and netbook is that it gets to be a real pain copying files back and forth and remembering which files/versions of files are on which machine. I guess you could get a portable hard drive and use it as your main storage drive, but that kind of defeats the portability of the netbook. The power of a desktop is nice for sure, but so is having all your computing and storage needs being met by one machine.
thljr;
the school will have nothing to do with your machine.
even when dealing with desk crits, no one cares what you're running, except for maybe the first year when they'll expect you to be using rhino for most of your work.
definitely make sure you're running a 64bit OS. once you start rendering stuff, the benchmark boost is noticeable. i went from vista 32-bit to windows 7 64-bit and the overall experience is far far better than what it was.
after your first year, you can use whatever software you want (assuming you're in the 3G program) and the overall "hidden-agenda" turns away from the technical/practical to the conceptual/design part of architecture.
as to going abroad... i never went abroad at umich, but i can tell you that i remember colcol having to get a new laptop because he was working on a netbook/desktop combo. he went to china. i have no idea if he used the laptop for anything over there.
My school offers the "architecture Dell" meaning that it is specially configured to arch students needs, including graphic cards and ram.
I love it and I have no complaints. Try to see if your school has special discounts for purchasing computers.
In addition I had a Toshiba and it was the worst computer ever. And when I needed customer service they were not that helpful...just my experience.
Aug 28, 09 8:59 pm ·
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Best laptop for MARCH program?
Starting my MARCH at U. Mich this summer and wanted some advice on the best laptop to get for school. Prefer a big screen and fast, able to run lots of programs all open at once (ie Rhino, AutoCad photoshop etc). Budget around 1500. PC person.
Thanks.
may i suggest searching the previous threads. this questions has been asked and answered ad nauseum.
i'd get a muti-touch toshiba tabletPC
run lots of programs fast, all open at the same time, for 1500? PM me when you come across one :D
You need at least 8GB of RAM, Quad Core Duo, nice graphics card etc.. this could be possible for $2000... maybe a second hand one for $1500
i have a 1.5 year old dell xps M1530 (top of the line at the time) and I often have rhino, auotocad, and photoshop running simultaneously with no glitches. i don't think you need 8GB of ram for that (i just have 4) and my processor is a duo core2. i would reccomend at least a 512MB graphics card though.
i would blow the budget a little and get a top of the line laptop right now that will last and keep you on par for the 3 years you'll be in school. it's a worthwhile investment.
Macbook Pro
no other computer is quite as pretty. And I think you get an Ipod touch for free if you buy one.
get a desktop and a netbook for taking notes.
you can build a system full of pwnage for 1000 + 250 for a great monitor. then spend 300-400 on a portable netbook for taking notes in class, email, and web browsing.
if i could do it all over again and had netbooks between at the price they are right now, i'd have built my own desktop earlier and bought one of those.
in the end, i ended up building myself a desktop for thesis / the year before thesis.... the difference in power compared to my macbook is astounding.
also, i just realized you said u.mich.
that's where im about to finish up my m.arch...
i seriously suggest the netbook + desktop combo. you're definitely gonna have enough room to keep a desktop in the studio. just chain it up.
The desktop idea is recommended, but not if you'd like to do more intensive work while you're travelling, working or just moving around etc
studio culture i such that in u.mich, you won't find yourself working much out of the studio unless you end up going abroad.
i did 99.9% of my work at umich in the studio.
good luck at umich; good program, hell of a crappy town.
ThinkPad - obscenely durable & well made which is nice in a studio environment. If you really need to occasionally run something other than Windows (and Vista Ultimate 64 really has been quite stable for me), dual boot your machine with your favorite version of Linux.
Four gigs and a dual core will do the trick and will run whatever you realistically need to have open all at once. Dot is right though, get the best you can, just wait as long as possible to get it. Graphics card is real important too.
Check the software requirements for the software you'll be running and give yourself a nice cushion.
Oh, and don't check the price of your rig down the road after you've bought it - it's so sad when 6 months later your machine now costs much less because the technology leapfrogged.
I suggest checking out dell's refurbished store online if you don't mind buying refurbished. From the review I've read, the units look brand new, sometimes only a small scratch on the body and you get the full warranty of a new laptop with the option to buy more if you want etc... You can pick up a laptop for nearly half the price of what it would cost brand new. There are deals and coupons being released by dell everyday.
www.notebookforums.com
If you want an insanely fast computer, get the Dell M6400 .. 17inch monitors, quad core duo, upgradable to 16GB RAM O_O, or for a smaller screen try the Dell M4400
HONEST TRUTH ABOUT COMPUTERS:
I will not speak for anyone else here, but I am the "computer geek" of my studio (undergraduate) and recently purchased a new computer. Here is the honest truth about buying a new computer.
I have to get on a soap box for a minute and say that you are much better off with a desktop if you can because they tend to be more reliable and you can get a lot of power for the money, but seeing that you want a laptop here is my advice.
Honestly, the brand doesn't matter...everyone has a favorite, but the reality is that every name brand computer company puts the same quality of parts in their computers and you are subject to the same probability that yours may die prematurely regardless or whether it is a Dell, HP or otherwise. Building your own is the ultimate option because you are buying the parts directly and therefore you can get replacements without a bunch a BS. Again, seeing as though you probably don't want to deal with that (I can't blame you) look at a few specific things.
Graphics processing is primarily dependent on two things: Processor and the graphics card. Contrary to popular belief, having a graphics card doesn't help much when it comes to rendering still images (that is mostly up to your processor), but it does help with real-time model shading and minipulation etc. as you would do in Rhino or photoshop. Look at a quad-core processor (2.2-2.6 ghz) for nice still image rendering speed and for using multiple programs at the same time. There are two types of graphics cards, those for rendering, animation, CAD etc. and those for gaming. Unfortunately most store-bought computers come with gaming graphics cards and while they help marginally, they run using a different primary computing engine then what CAD programs like to hook up with (Google DirectX10 vs OpenGL 2.0 and you'll understand), so having a graphics card with loads of memory is of relatively no help. The best you can do with a store bought computer is a quad core processor, at least 512 mb graphics card (although not that necessary unless you can find one for rendering) 6GB of RAM and a nice hard drive (7200 RPM if you can find it). Remember that all of the parts work interdependently and the better that each one is contributes to overall performace. (Meaning, a beastly processor will do you little good if you have no RAM, a slow hard drive, etc.)
Also be careful with Windows Vista...Stores often give you 64 bit vista versus 32 bit vista and that may not be compatible with Rhino (I know new versions of autocad and photoshop work either way)
To make a long story long...The processor is the most important thing, then RAM and a video card. As some people above have said, 1500 might not be enough, but 2000 should get you there. Laptops are ridiculous in price compared to desktops so expect a difference
Sorry for the long post, but I just went through this process and I ended up doing what was eluded to in another post... I bought the parts and built my own desktop and bought a cheap laptop to supplement. (Cost for insanely nice desktop and ok laptop was about 2150 dollars) Just don't go and buy a piece of garbage from Best Buy. Good luck and happy hunting.
J
I am running RHino on Windows 7 64bit...I am running Rhino 4 in 32 bit and RHino 5 as 64 bit...there are no problems at all.
I would recommend the HP nw9440...it is their business mobile workstation - which means it has 3 tears warranty included, as all HP business machines do. Thay replaced my motherboard even though I dropped my computer...incredible warranty that Apple would be charging you for.
The video card for these models is the mobile quadro which is a beast...I run the quadro 1500 m and it destroys any geforce card when it comes to cad/3d work...gaming not so much.
I just finished my first year in the M.Arch program here at U.Mich. If I was to buy a new computer now I would certainly get a desktop. The way the studio is setup it lends itself to work well. Software wise you'll use Rhino mostly but 3dsMax is starting to poke it's head back in a little bit. If I were to buy a setup now I would buy a nice desktop for the studio then maybe a small laptop for portability. I saw a commercial the other day for an hp small unit for $200.
Anyone have an opinion on the below? I think it was in COMPUSA's last circular.
$399.99 BUILD YOUR OWN QUAD CORE PC ( $470 Total Value!) thru Jun 6
• AMD Phenom 9500 2.2GHz Processor
• CoolerMaster ATX Mid-Tower Case
• MSI Socket AM2 Motherboard
• OCZ Fatal1ty 4GB DDR2 Memory
• Seagate 500GB Hard Drive
• 550W Power Supply
#B69-0077
You will probably spend another $150 on a good video card...that power supply should be sufficient unless you want to go dual SLI video card down the road. Anyone providing a warranty beyond a 1 year parts warranty?
I just bought an HP XW8600 workstation for $900 and it comes with a 3 tear warranty as it is their business class workstation.
Here it is for 1100...check google for prices as they fluctuate daily
http://www.restockit.com/HP-Workstation-XW8600-CMT-1-x-Quad-Core-Xeon-E5405-2-GHz-(00374I).html?source=froogle
It is a quadcore XEON...and the box is made to handle up to 100+ GB of ram comes with a Quadro card, etc...not to mention you are fully covered for 3 years.
I always prefer to buy business level machines vs. consumer level as the parts are built to last longer and the warranties are much better.
Thanks for all the great responses. Still searching and highly considering the desktop option in order to save money/get more power.
To addictionbomb, LKJR, and any other UMich students or grads...
Sounds like getting a desktop/netbook combo is the way to go. However, if I hope to go abroad, will having a desktop down the road cause problems? Or are there any conflicts with having a desktop for the international studios in the Spring?
Also, school suggests windows xp pro....is windows vista 64bit ok or are there any red flags here? I know there is debate about how Rhino runs on vista...
Thanks
I recently went through this process, only I had a semester left in undergrad and wanted to get something to last into graduate school. I went for a compromise between portability, otherwise why a laptop?, and performance. I went with a 14 inch Thinkpad t400 with an XP Professional Downgrade, external monitor, and I am extremely happy with it.
I would second/third? the desktop/netbook combo, unless you have ginormous hands :). I had an early Asus eee pc 2G and it was fantastic, but small. Even the largest, beastly-iest "mobile" workstation will never be as fast or as great as a desktop set-up.
If you decide to go with just a laptop, my suggestion to throw into the ring would be to focus on cooling and buy the machine that runs the coolest and uses the least power as that will determine longevity and performance over time. macbooks ALWAYS flame out/crash/slow down after ~6 months because they do not have adequate cooling and the components run too hot to be packed into that sexy metal case. When I was spec'ing my Thinkpad, I chose the particular type of Core2Duo processor that uses the lowest wattage.
My understanding of the Vista debate with software compatibility is that Vista can be a little bit of an unknown, it still can be unpredictable. that some people will have no issues and others will, while running Revit and Rhino. XP is absolutely stable and has been for several years. The other thing to remember is that as a student at large university, you generally have access to a campus tech mart where you can buy different distributions really cheaply later on and upgrade easily to your heart's desire.
The problem with the desktop and netbook is that it gets to be a real pain copying files back and forth and remembering which files/versions of files are on which machine. I guess you could get a portable hard drive and use it as your main storage drive, but that kind of defeats the portability of the netbook. The power of a desktop is nice for sure, but so is having all your computing and storage needs being met by one machine.
windows vista f---ing blows. get xP if at all possible. all vista does is ruin your life.
windows 7, people, is where it's at. you can get the beta for free.
thljr;
the school will have nothing to do with your machine.
even when dealing with desk crits, no one cares what you're running, except for maybe the first year when they'll expect you to be using rhino for most of your work.
definitely make sure you're running a 64bit OS. once you start rendering stuff, the benchmark boost is noticeable. i went from vista 32-bit to windows 7 64-bit and the overall experience is far far better than what it was.
after your first year, you can use whatever software you want (assuming you're in the 3G program) and the overall "hidden-agenda" turns away from the technical/practical to the conceptual/design part of architecture.
as to going abroad... i never went abroad at umich, but i can tell you that i remember colcol having to get a new laptop because he was working on a netbook/desktop combo. he went to china. i have no idea if he used the laptop for anything over there.
Definately Dell- Inspiron E1505
My school offers the "architecture Dell" meaning that it is specially configured to arch students needs, including graphic cards and ram.
I love it and I have no complaints. Try to see if your school has special discounts for purchasing computers.
In addition I had a Toshiba and it was the worst computer ever. And when I needed customer service they were not that helpful...just my experience.
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