1) Someone I love lives here. But even if I were willing to work something out long distance, flying off to Europe is not a plausible option.
2) Money.
How much was your cheap flight + cheap apartment (and feeding yourself for a month)? Probably over $1000, and I would say that's on the low end of the estimate.
I certainly don't have $1000 in the bank to get me by for a month. There's no way I'm putting that on my credit card. I have enough student loan debt that I can almost not pay as it is. A lot of people don't have this much in the bank, and it seems like a lot to do so. AND I'd still have to come up with several hundred dollars in loans.
Plus, there's no guarantee that this investment is going to pay off. I'd be starting from essentially zero, network wise, and that doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence that this plan would work out. Although I'm pretty confident that once I started working some place, my employer would want to keep me on, even previously made arrangements can fall through. And if it doesn't work out, well, how am I going to get back? Then I would have to start over again, here, again.
Although I personally don't have a kid, if I did, this would be SO much more difficult than it already is.
3) Health history
While I am sure that the health care situation in Europe is better for residents, I'm not sure what sort of situation I would be in if I were there and uninsured. Even if I could afford to cobra my current insurance should I quit my current job, that's adding another $480/month to my tab. And, as someone with a problematic health history, no insurance carrier will cover me independently, so getting cheaper coverage is not going to happen.
It sucks to feel stuck, evanc, and it's not exactly pleasant having someone who isn't rub it in. Being smart has nothing to do with it, taking risks, certainly does, but the risks aren't always outweighed by potential gains, as you assume they do.
I just reread what I wrote, and while that entire situation is true, I don't want to be a whiner. There's some stuff that IS going right with my life these days, and I am definitely thankful. Although I never envisioned myself in my current situation (who, after all, daydreams about underemployment), it could certainly be worse.
I'm jealous, and disappointed, and wish that things could be a little different. doing what I can to change this all (obviously not flying off to Europe) and hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later.
^exactly. Making the move to a different city, let alone a different country comes with a considerable amount of risk that may or may not, especially in such a crippled economy, pay off. Without the assurance of employment BEFORE moving somewhere, the cost of airline tickets and apartments, whatever they might be, is pretty much irrelevant because your now spending more than what you would staying wherever you might already be. This was my point about it being a "luxury" as few people can afford to move somewhere on a whim with the hopes of getting a job. That might have worked a few years back, but today I just can't imagine that being a successful tactic.
As it is, you indicated that you got your job BEFORE you moved. Huge difference between moving somewhere because you have a job vs. moving somewhere because you hope to get a job.
Evanc's connection probably did play a big part in getting his job. Think of that as advice, not something that you can't also do. All of you have connections, and you need to learn how to work them. We hired a new grad/intern last November. We had lots of applications, narrowed it down, and interviewed about 5. It was an incredibly difficult decision to make. We hired the one who had gone to school with one of our existing interns, and knew another person here from high school by total coincidence, and both vouched for his personality, work ethic, etc. That is what put him above the others that probably all would have been just as good of an employee.
You need to work all of your contacts- people you know from college, parents and high school friends, relatives, people who relatives work with, neighbors, friends of your parents who know someone who knows someone... I am considering hiring someone referred to me by a woman who babysat for my kids when they were little. It put her resume above others (all other things being equal) because I think highly of the babysitter, and this is her niece.
Difficult as though it may be, I think the points being made about "being willing to relocate" are absolutely true. I would not have found a job had I not moved... however, I had VERY LITTLE MONEY and absolutely zero unemployment checks coming my way, because I had obviously just graduated. What got me through? The courtesy of an old friend who let me stay with her for 2 MONTHS while I looked.
So my advice is to not only mine your connections for job opportunities but for possible couch-surfing as well. Nobody should be surprised that employers will first look at someone who already lives in a place and has an address before they look at someone who is out of town.
(That said, I probably can't have people stay with me where I am right now, but talk to me again in summer.)
I have been shopping for jobs in New York for a while.
Luckily, I have had quite a bit of positive feedback. There's been quite a few hints at employment.
But having almost no credit, I don't want to risk moving and get fired or laid off in 90 days. It really sucks where I am at. It would suck even more to be in NYC.
My only stipulation right now on taking a job in another city is relocation. While I have learned that about 60% of the people who request relocation get it, that's a 60/40 (basically yes or no) chance.
I think we the job market being ever so competitive, I feel like it is a downer on an interview to make such negotiations.
I could get a job if I move to New York. Cannot move to New York without a job.
I'm even more than willing to negotiate dramatically to get relocation.
I'm right with Emily here. I stayed with my mom for six weeks, with friends for a month, while I hopscotched the west looking for work. NO this wasn't my preferred approach, YES it was hard, and yes I even put some more debt on my credit card that I'm now having to work to pay off. But was that debt worth it? Yes.
I think the overall theme that's emerging here isn't about being able to move to Europe: it's about being willing to take risk. Is anyone pretending that moving to Europe, or giving up your own lease and living out of a suitcase isn't a risk? No way. But the risk can pay off. Evanc didn't just get handed a job because he had a connection and that made life easy: he had to take a risk to make it work. Staying in a low-risk situation will yield low rewards.
^meh. Maybe, maybe not. You could just as easily put fake address on your resumes to lead employers to believe you are local and then if anything bites you just fly out for the interview. It's not terribly honest but considering most offices aren't either, it seems pretty fair.
To some degree though I am in a position not to move. I'm receiving unemployment checks and with the prospect of employment looking like it might not happen anytime in the near future, I'm just going to bank as much government money as I can. Aside from living at home, it's been nice to pay off my credit cards, put aside money for moving expenses and have some quality me time.
So whatever. The real point was to discredit the notion that simply by moving you will magically find the perfect job instantly and all your wildest fantasies will come true.
Actually, I was going to post this because it might help.
But Harvard suggests using a fake or shortened named if your name has an usual spelling (read ethnic).
In fact, people with "ethnic" names only have a 3% of getting a job.
So, even if the person is white... Steven and Jared will get the job over Stefan and Jarrod.
The number provider of resume parsing algorithms recommends using all fake detail except for an e-mail address (use an obscure, nonsensical email address like [email protected]) and a real working phone number.
The reason is that resume parsers like for unique identifiers and that the technology is so widespread people use resume parsing for identity theft.
So, if the resume parser finds your resume but finds a previous copy with the some key identifiers... the resume parser automatically rejects your resume based on inconsistency. Where as a unique resume identifier will push the resume (if qualified) into an accepted pile.
If you do decide to fake your details, be sure to put at the bottom of your resume "This resume was optimized for parsing." That way if you do get called... you can explain to them why your details aren't legit and why your resume is sterile.
As a 5th year student with one semester left, my strategy is to wait it out as much as possible, taking on semester/year long internships to gain greater experience before I return to complete my thesis. Although the economy probably won't be much better in a year from now, the gap year will at least give me some more time to pick up some important skills such as REVIT and become LEED certified.
The depressed economy has also made me realize the importance of developing skills related to the industry such as finance and real estate development. I am also looking at potential teaching positions and business degrees that I can pursue later on. This will hopefully give me more options and allow me to pursue other paths if the traditional architecture career path does not work out.
faking an address is not useful nor intelligent. always be honest. seriously.
i moved country several times, but only twice in search of work. first time was to japan, when i was married and had one child. second time was to london, when i was married and had 2 children. in both cases i had no job beforehand.
i was not worried when i went to japan, but was a bit worried about going to london because it was right after 9/11. when i went it was because i could not get an interview from japan. actually, i could get an interview, but it was hard to be in london the next day...;-) so i took a chance and moved and had a job in 2 weeks. i lost the job when bush invaded iraq, and the 2 projects i was hired for were put on hold, which was ironic (to me anyway). so i moved country again. again without a job prepared in advance. i ended up going back to school in tokyo (i got a scholarship for 3+ years funding to do phd).
anyway, the thing is moving is not easy but it is always a choice and sometimes it is cool and sometimes not. i guess it takes a certain kind of person to be ok with that kind of uncertainty, but being willing to move broadens opportunities, no question.
Sorry, jump, honesty and best practice does not pay in the US.
If firms do not want to hire nationally then they should not advertise nationally.
They do it because it is cheap(er), they can find suckers willing to invest thousands of dollars in a job and they may even find that one superior candidate out of the entire crowd.
National advertising for jobs diminishes local labor markets, destroys social infrastructure in place relating to employment and makes businesses feel far too much entitlement.
This is precisely why many states and countries have outlawed misleading job advertisements and some areas even force employers to advertise locally in addition to nationally.
Point is... if businesses want to be treated seriously, they should treat their business practices with more grace than they do.
Running people's personal information through algorithms, storing those algorithms in poorly secure databases and keeping them indefinitely isn't exactly a best practice either.
Don't advertise jobs on certain national or international websites if you're not going to hire anyone father than 50 miles away.
Honestly what difference does is make if I use a friends address for job applications? Will the employer know? Probably not. It allows me to apply for jobs in various cities and not immediately get my application tossed because I am not local and the employer doesn't want to deal with moving expenses or time. I'm more than willing to move, but I am not going to be foolish enough to just do it without a job. I've seen too many of my friends do that only to end up moving right back home in 6 months because the only employment they could find was working minimum wage retail. Considering that a move can cost $2000 and up once you rent the Uhaul, gas, etc. it's a lot of money to throw away on a wish and dream.
Montagneux, am sorry you see the world that way. i am getting on in years but after what, 25 years working and supporting myself, my own experience has been best when totally honest. perhaps you are better at lie-ing than me, but that is not exactly a recommendation in my mind...
i run an architecture office in tokyo. we are always honest, and expect the same from people we work with. dishonesty causes problems and is not a good way to run a business. it is unprofessional and a horrible way to start a relationship with an employer. our business requires trust and shared responsibilities. if i can't trust you to be straight up i don't want you working for me. it is as simple as that.
morse, sure you can use your friend's address, but what do you do
for interview? suddenly it is necessary to be conducted over the phone? I can't imagine hiring you in that situation. unless you are awesome. in which case your location would not be a problem to start with.
the problem right now is not honesty in any case, it is a harsh market. games are not going to help much. i wish i had an answer. making contacts is always a good place to start, but again that is something that requires honesty...doesn't it?
Honestly so many offices have gone to "local applicants" only, it has made it really hard to "honestly" apply for jobs outside of where I am living, where there are no jobs and probably won't be for a really long time. So by using a friends address it helps expand the market I can apply to while being able to not incur debt by moving somewhere jobless. I figure if an office actually contacts me than I can make interview arrangements as needed... a last minute flight isn't nearly expensive as moving expenses. That said, I don't anticipate that happening anytime soon... I am in that awkward group of people that have some office experience but just graduated from school that are being eliminated from the workforce because the jobs we qualify for are being filled with way more experienced people and the internship jobs pay for too little to even pay the bills.
that makes sense, morse. i don't mean to be dogmatic about it. i can see some awkward questions if you don't actually live in place, but if you feel ok with it, go for it.
what bothers me is the idea that the only way to be successful is to treat people like they are morons and/or can't be trusted. for me the opposite is much more often the case.
"what bothers me is the idea that the only way to be successful is to treat people like they are morons and/or can't be trusted. for me the opposite is much more often the case."
"we are always honest, and expect the same from people we work with. dishonesty causes problems and is not a good way to run a business. it is unprofessional and a horrible way to start a relationship with an employer. our business requires trust and shared responsibilities."
"If firms do not want to hire nationally then they should not advertise nationally. They do it because it is cheap(er), they can find suckers willing to invest thousands of dollars in a job and they may even find that one superior candidate out of the entire crowd. National advertising for jobs diminishes local labor markets, destroys social infrastructure in place relating to employment and makes businesses feel far too much entitlement."
To me, the quoted post seems an extreme overstatement of the situation. While I certainly think it relevant for firms to indicate they're not going to pay relocation costs if that's the case, I don't see the harm in advertising on a national website like Archinect or AIA.org.
I've hired many people over the years who worked somewhere else but wanted to move to our city, where they might have gone to school, have relatives or friends, or just want to live. I see absolutely nothing wrong with throwing my net widely, provided I don't mislead the pool of candidates about our position on relocation costs.
no dichotomy. i was lamenting the sense that some of the posters seemed to feel the only way to succeed is to treat others like morons or otherwise sneak around. that is to me good recipe for problems, but not useful way to find work, etc...
then again look how well things worked out for madoff. he had a pretty good run
How the soon-to-be graduating class might (or might not) impact the job market.
evanc, let's see:
1) Someone I love lives here. But even if I were willing to work something out long distance, flying off to Europe is not a plausible option.
2) Money.
How much was your cheap flight + cheap apartment (and feeding yourself for a month)? Probably over $1000, and I would say that's on the low end of the estimate.
I certainly don't have $1000 in the bank to get me by for a month. There's no way I'm putting that on my credit card. I have enough student loan debt that I can almost not pay as it is. A lot of people don't have this much in the bank, and it seems like a lot to do so. AND I'd still have to come up with several hundred dollars in loans.
Plus, there's no guarantee that this investment is going to pay off. I'd be starting from essentially zero, network wise, and that doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence that this plan would work out. Although I'm pretty confident that once I started working some place, my employer would want to keep me on, even previously made arrangements can fall through. And if it doesn't work out, well, how am I going to get back? Then I would have to start over again, here, again.
Although I personally don't have a kid, if I did, this would be SO much more difficult than it already is.
3) Health history
While I am sure that the health care situation in Europe is better for residents, I'm not sure what sort of situation I would be in if I were there and uninsured. Even if I could afford to cobra my current insurance should I quit my current job, that's adding another $480/month to my tab. And, as someone with a problematic health history, no insurance carrier will cover me independently, so getting cheaper coverage is not going to happen.
It sucks to feel stuck, evanc, and it's not exactly pleasant having someone who isn't rub it in. Being smart has nothing to do with it, taking risks, certainly does, but the risks aren't always outweighed by potential gains, as you assume they do.
I just reread what I wrote, and while that entire situation is true, I don't want to be a whiner. There's some stuff that IS going right with my life these days, and I am definitely thankful. Although I never envisioned myself in my current situation (who, after all, daydreams about underemployment), it could certainly be worse.
I'm jealous, and disappointed, and wish that things could be a little different. doing what I can to change this all (obviously not flying off to Europe) and hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later.
^exactly. Making the move to a different city, let alone a different country comes with a considerable amount of risk that may or may not, especially in such a crippled economy, pay off. Without the assurance of employment BEFORE moving somewhere, the cost of airline tickets and apartments, whatever they might be, is pretty much irrelevant because your now spending more than what you would staying wherever you might already be. This was my point about it being a "luxury" as few people can afford to move somewhere on a whim with the hopes of getting a job. That might have worked a few years back, but today I just can't imagine that being a successful tactic.
As it is, you indicated that you got your job BEFORE you moved. Huge difference between moving somewhere because you have a job vs. moving somewhere because you hope to get a job.
Evanc's connection probably did play a big part in getting his job. Think of that as advice, not something that you can't also do. All of you have connections, and you need to learn how to work them. We hired a new grad/intern last November. We had lots of applications, narrowed it down, and interviewed about 5. It was an incredibly difficult decision to make. We hired the one who had gone to school with one of our existing interns, and knew another person here from high school by total coincidence, and both vouched for his personality, work ethic, etc. That is what put him above the others that probably all would have been just as good of an employee.
You need to work all of your contacts- people you know from college, parents and high school friends, relatives, people who relatives work with, neighbors, friends of your parents who know someone who knows someone... I am considering hiring someone referred to me by a woman who babysat for my kids when they were little. It put her resume above others (all other things being equal) because I think highly of the babysitter, and this is her niece.
Difficult as though it may be, I think the points being made about "being willing to relocate" are absolutely true. I would not have found a job had I not moved... however, I had VERY LITTLE MONEY and absolutely zero unemployment checks coming my way, because I had obviously just graduated. What got me through? The courtesy of an old friend who let me stay with her for 2 MONTHS while I looked.
So my advice is to not only mine your connections for job opportunities but for possible couch-surfing as well. Nobody should be surprised that employers will first look at someone who already lives in a place and has an address before they look at someone who is out of town.
(That said, I probably can't have people stay with me where I am right now, but talk to me again in summer.)
I have very little money.
I have been shopping for jobs in New York for a while.
Luckily, I have had quite a bit of positive feedback. There's been quite a few hints at employment.
But having almost no credit, I don't want to risk moving and get fired or laid off in 90 days. It really sucks where I am at. It would suck even more to be in NYC.
My only stipulation right now on taking a job in another city is relocation. While I have learned that about 60% of the people who request relocation get it, that's a 60/40 (basically yes or no) chance.
I think we the job market being ever so competitive, I feel like it is a downer on an interview to make such negotiations.
I could get a job if I move to New York. Cannot move to New York without a job.
I'm even more than willing to negotiate dramatically to get relocation.
I'm right with Emily here. I stayed with my mom for six weeks, with friends for a month, while I hopscotched the west looking for work. NO this wasn't my preferred approach, YES it was hard, and yes I even put some more debt on my credit card that I'm now having to work to pay off. But was that debt worth it? Yes.
I think the overall theme that's emerging here isn't about being able to move to Europe: it's about being willing to take risk. Is anyone pretending that moving to Europe, or giving up your own lease and living out of a suitcase isn't a risk? No way. But the risk can pay off. Evanc didn't just get handed a job because he had a connection and that made life easy: he had to take a risk to make it work. Staying in a low-risk situation will yield low rewards.
^meh. Maybe, maybe not. You could just as easily put fake address on your resumes to lead employers to believe you are local and then if anything bites you just fly out for the interview. It's not terribly honest but considering most offices aren't either, it seems pretty fair.
To some degree though I am in a position not to move. I'm receiving unemployment checks and with the prospect of employment looking like it might not happen anytime in the near future, I'm just going to bank as much government money as I can. Aside from living at home, it's been nice to pay off my credit cards, put aside money for moving expenses and have some quality me time.
So whatever. The real point was to discredit the notion that simply by moving you will magically find the perfect job instantly and all your wildest fantasies will come true.
I have a new york address (answering service), a new york phone number, a new york post office box and a new york residential address.
Already ahead of you on that one!
Nice. Maybe we need a forum here for people to post address in various cities to use for job apps.
Actually, I was going to post this because it might help.
But Harvard suggests using a fake or shortened named if your name has an usual spelling (read ethnic).
In fact, people with "ethnic" names only have a 3% of getting a job.
So, even if the person is white... Steven and Jared will get the job over Stefan and Jarrod.
The number provider of resume parsing algorithms recommends using all fake detail except for an e-mail address (use an obscure, nonsensical email address like [email protected]) and a real working phone number.
The reason is that resume parsers like for unique identifiers and that the technology is so widespread people use resume parsing for identity theft.
So, if the resume parser finds your resume but finds a previous copy with the some key identifiers... the resume parser automatically rejects your resume based on inconsistency. Where as a unique resume identifier will push the resume (if qualified) into an accepted pile.
If you do decide to fake your details, be sure to put at the bottom of your resume "This resume was optimized for parsing." That way if you do get called... you can explain to them why your details aren't legit and why your resume is sterile.
As a 5th year student with one semester left, my strategy is to wait it out as much as possible, taking on semester/year long internships to gain greater experience before I return to complete my thesis. Although the economy probably won't be much better in a year from now, the gap year will at least give me some more time to pick up some important skills such as REVIT and become LEED certified.
The depressed economy has also made me realize the importance of developing skills related to the industry such as finance and real estate development. I am also looking at potential teaching positions and business degrees that I can pursue later on. This will hopefully give me more options and allow me to pursue other paths if the traditional architecture career path does not work out.
best of luck to all out there.
faking an address is not useful nor intelligent. always be honest. seriously.
i moved country several times, but only twice in search of work. first time was to japan, when i was married and had one child. second time was to london, when i was married and had 2 children. in both cases i had no job beforehand.
i was not worried when i went to japan, but was a bit worried about going to london because it was right after 9/11. when i went it was because i could not get an interview from japan. actually, i could get an interview, but it was hard to be in london the next day...;-) so i took a chance and moved and had a job in 2 weeks. i lost the job when bush invaded iraq, and the 2 projects i was hired for were put on hold, which was ironic (to me anyway). so i moved country again. again without a job prepared in advance. i ended up going back to school in tokyo (i got a scholarship for 3+ years funding to do phd).
anyway, the thing is moving is not easy but it is always a choice and sometimes it is cool and sometimes not. i guess it takes a certain kind of person to be ok with that kind of uncertainty, but being willing to move broadens opportunities, no question.
Sorry, jump, honesty and best practice does not pay in the US.
If firms do not want to hire nationally then they should not advertise nationally.
They do it because it is cheap(er), they can find suckers willing to invest thousands of dollars in a job and they may even find that one superior candidate out of the entire crowd.
National advertising for jobs diminishes local labor markets, destroys social infrastructure in place relating to employment and makes businesses feel far too much entitlement.
This is precisely why many states and countries have outlawed misleading job advertisements and some areas even force employers to advertise locally in addition to nationally.
Point is... if businesses want to be treated seriously, they should treat their business practices with more grace than they do.
Running people's personal information through algorithms, storing those algorithms in poorly secure databases and keeping them indefinitely isn't exactly a best practice either.
Don't advertise jobs on certain national or international websites if you're not going to hire anyone father than 50 miles away.
Honestly what difference does is make if I use a friends address for job applications? Will the employer know? Probably not. It allows me to apply for jobs in various cities and not immediately get my application tossed because I am not local and the employer doesn't want to deal with moving expenses or time. I'm more than willing to move, but I am not going to be foolish enough to just do it without a job. I've seen too many of my friends do that only to end up moving right back home in 6 months because the only employment they could find was working minimum wage retail. Considering that a move can cost $2000 and up once you rent the Uhaul, gas, etc. it's a lot of money to throw away on a wish and dream.
Montagneux, am sorry you see the world that way. i am getting on in years but after what, 25 years working and supporting myself, my own experience has been best when totally honest. perhaps you are better at lie-ing than me, but that is not exactly a recommendation in my mind...
i run an architecture office in tokyo. we are always honest, and expect the same from people we work with. dishonesty causes problems and is not a good way to run a business. it is unprofessional and a horrible way to start a relationship with an employer. our business requires trust and shared responsibilities. if i can't trust you to be straight up i don't want you working for me. it is as simple as that.
morse, sure you can use your friend's address, but what do you do
for interview? suddenly it is necessary to be conducted over the phone? I can't imagine hiring you in that situation. unless you are awesome. in which case your location would not be a problem to start with.
the problem right now is not honesty in any case, it is a harsh market. games are not going to help much. i wish i had an answer. making contacts is always a good place to start, but again that is something that requires honesty...doesn't it?
Honestly so many offices have gone to "local applicants" only, it has made it really hard to "honestly" apply for jobs outside of where I am living, where there are no jobs and probably won't be for a really long time. So by using a friends address it helps expand the market I can apply to while being able to not incur debt by moving somewhere jobless. I figure if an office actually contacts me than I can make interview arrangements as needed... a last minute flight isn't nearly expensive as moving expenses. That said, I don't anticipate that happening anytime soon... I am in that awkward group of people that have some office experience but just graduated from school that are being eliminated from the workforce because the jobs we qualify for are being filled with way more experienced people and the internship jobs pay for too little to even pay the bills.
that makes sense, morse. i don't mean to be dogmatic about it. i can see some awkward questions if you don't actually live in place, but if you feel ok with it, go for it.
what bothers me is the idea that the only way to be successful is to treat people like they are morons and/or can't be trusted. for me the opposite is much more often the case.
"what bothers me is the idea that the only way to be successful is to treat people like they are morons and/or can't be trusted. for me the opposite is much more often the case."
"we are always honest, and expect the same from people we work with. dishonesty causes problems and is not a good way to run a business. it is unprofessional and a horrible way to start a relationship with an employer. our business requires trust and shared responsibilities."
DICHOTOMY?!?
errr...
DICHOTOMY?!?
011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100011010000111100101110000011011110110001101110010011010010111010001101000011110010111000001101111011000110111001001101001011101000110100001111001011100000110111101100011011100100110100101110100
Oh, what lovely binary opposition.
To me, the quoted post seems an extreme overstatement of the situation. While I certainly think it relevant for firms to indicate they're not going to pay relocation costs if that's the case, I don't see the harm in advertising on a national website like Archinect or AIA.org.
I've hired many people over the years who worked somewhere else but wanted to move to our city, where they might have gone to school, have relatives or friends, or just want to live. I see absolutely nothing wrong with throwing my net widely, provided I don't mislead the pool of candidates about our position on relocation costs.
cool that text cut off like that.
no dichotomy. i was lamenting the sense that some of the posters seemed to feel the only way to succeed is to treat others like morons or otherwise sneak around. that is to me good recipe for problems, but not useful way to find work, etc...
then again look how well things worked out for madoff. he had a pretty good run
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