UT Austin fo' shizzle!

i have only heard good things about austin plus the locals get mad when people move in ..

the folks getting jobs these days are transportation/infrastructure planners. Environmentally focused professionals are also getting a few more options the design centric folks. Will the economy or job prospects be much different in 3 years?

The value of the ivies comes from the alumni network. So if you want to teach, check out where many profs got degrees - GSD, Penn, UVA... it helps. If you want to have your own firm and engage certain markets like corporate folks - access to the wharton or harvard business school alumni is priceless. In smaller, fly-over markets an ivy grad degree might be held against you. Then there is the cost of an Ivy - go cheap, go to a state school.

UW and UT are good. better visit them to see if you'd be happy.

hi!

i too applied to MLA programs for the fall and wish there was more discussion of them on these forums.

my background: my undergrad and early work experience is in drawing / graphic design / letterpress printing / bookbinding but the past few years i've been working in nutrition / food policy / urban agriculture. I dropped out of a part time grad program in nonprofit management in december and decided to apply to landscape programs the same month. i managed to create a portfolio, study for and take the gre's, get recommendations, write essays, (kind of) research programs, and apply to six schools in a matter of THREE weeks....while working hard at my full time job.

so, i'm doing most of my program research after applying. silly, i know. i couldn't make the west coast deadlines, so that ruled those schools out easily. i did some brief online research and asked two friends of friends that are landscape architects (one went to penn, one to cornell) where i should apply and ended up with:

Cornell - ACCEPTED
UVA - ACCEPTED!! (w/ a teeny tiny fellowship)
GSD - waiting (never know if you don't try)
PENN - waiting
SUNY ESF - waiting (i'm kind of a science nerd and wanted a science heavy option)
CCNY - waiting (b/c it's dirt cheap and the only program in NYC, where i live)

i'm really deciding between UVA, PENN, and CCNY at this point.
if i actually get into GSD that'll throw a wrench into my plans.

UVA - program seems to best match for my interests and i like the option of the dual degree in environmental and urban planning

PENN - like the digital focus and work coming out of there and the option of dual MFA degree, because i do still have an active studio art practice, and i like Philly and have friends there. but probably couldn't afford it anyway.

CCNY - b/c i'm poor and haven't really completely mentally prepared myself to leave Brooklyn, my home of eight years

any words of wisdom?

treekiller- Why do you say that an ivy league degree can be held against you? Who would hold it against you- clients, prospective employers, both, neither?

I might be sounding really naive in asking this question, but I'm very interested to know the answer.

first - congrats on the acceptances. you now have tough choices to make.

in flyover land and small towns everywhere there is often an inferiority complex along with strong local networks that are often suspicious of outsiders like 'latte drinking yankees' as most folks become when attending an ivy. So some potential clients, employers, and colleagues can be passive-aggressive or worse towards folks that didn't go to a local high school/college. it also goes back to the red-state/blue-state culture war. most ivy grads don't go deer hunting or ice-fishing if you get my drift.

okay, this is a gross generalization, but one based on my experiences in several spots around the country.

If you're from someplace like that, but go to an ivy, you can blend back in easier then a carpet bagger like me.

thanks for your input treekiller

i've spent nearly a decade living as a southerner in nyc and have experienced the opposite problem more times than i can count. seems that you can't win either way.

except maybe with my combo of a bfa from a southern state school and mla from an ivy.

Why would anyone want to spend THAT much money for a degree in Landscape (at schools like Harvard, Penn, RISD, etc) when essentially you will be making far less than architects down the stretch?

I know what treekiller means. My 24 hours of coursework in Black American History don't help me get a job at all... especially in the South. They think I'm some sensitive PC asshole when really I just wanted to learn the will of total domination and subjugation.

Oh noes, Massa'. Iza did ent means ta set da darkies free.

Archmed, where are you getting your salary stats from? Last time I saw anything published, Landscape Architects had just moved up to make slightly more on average. I know I have generally made about as much as my architect counterparts on the few projects where I have become buddy buddy with them. And I think principal at EDAW probably makes the same as a principal at HOK. Any other experiences?

And I think Treekiller has it nailed when it comes to the ivies - if your interest is in teaching then it is worth it. If you want to work the alumni connections among developers, then its worth it. If you dream of the 'star' design firms, then also worth it. Otherwise, maybe, maybe not. Takes all types as they say.

Anti, if true and landscape architects do indeed make more than architects, I would find that absolutely -beyond- comical.

Why?

The question should really read: "Why should landscape architects earn more than architects?"

I'm really curious about that.

Landscape $34,094 $39,458 $43,507
Architect $49,381 $56,637 $66,427

I would say that it's probably possible for landscape architects to make more than architects because of the sheer number of government and institutional architects.

Landscapes, I've noticed, are treated like spring and fall fashion. People who can afford it will tear up everything to make their landscaping current and in vogue. I suppose the only thing you could really point out here is whether it is cheaper in the long run to maintain it or is it cheaper to rip it up and throw it out.

Most developers (none here) didn't go to Harvard, so your GSD degree won't help you "land clients". There is little interface between GSD and MBA program, so it's not like you'll acquire a string of future client contacts. An Ivy degree will open more doors for your entry-level jobs, and with hardwork, ambition, and innate talent, will also likely get you promoted at a faster pace. That's my observation here.

If you get into GSD program, go! It's a strong program, with solid interface with architecture and urban design departments.

Yeah I looked at most salary related sites and it looks like Architects make more -- not a whole lot more generally. The ones that show Landscapers ahead are not factoring in the fact that there are far more architects. And it doesn't factor the different levels of experience architects go through. Some of the sites have architects broken into categories like "Architect I-V."

There's no reason LA's out-earn Architects. I mean be realistic!

breaking news from the U of MN - acceptance letter were mailed this afternoon.


back to the regularly scheduled discussion of arch v. 'scape:

my .02 is that professionals serving different markets and client types get paid depending on the value of their services. Folks working on large-scale complex projects earn more then folks working on residential, period. All salary polls are skewed by that. 'scapers working on the big juicy projects are often paid more then architects for similar services since there are less folks fighting over that slice of the pie and with comparable skills. Too many architects. not too many 'scapers.

treekiller - you still have any connections at penn that could tell us when the acceptances are going out?

and my $.02....based on the posts i've seen on this forum and this thread in particular, i'm proud and grateful to be joining the landscape team.

Since I'm not haunting Meyerson hall, I don't gave the skinny on this years LARP acceptances. Call Diane in the LARP office for an update if the suspense is killing you.

"Why should landscape architects earn more than architects?"

because there's not enough of them. you can get into the whole 'but's it is harder to become an architect' stuff, but the marketplace doesn't give two shits about that kind of stuff.

Yeah I think reflecting back on this thread, its pure comedy that there is even discussion on whether or not landscape architects should make more than Architects.

Just heard back from UW (in) and UBC (waitlisted). Stoked for UW—looks like they sent their letters out earlier than anticipated. Still waiting on UOregon,
PennDesign and GSD.

Good luck to all!

Applying for MLA II:
RISD: yes
U Washington: no
UVA: waiting
Penn: waiting
GSD: waiting
Columbia: waiting

I'm looking forward to see anyone admitted to RISD on Apr 2nd. Let me know if you're going.
I saw someone got into UVA already. Was that for MLA II?

and Archmed...calm down.

mike de - i got into UVA for MLA I. If you get into the rest of the schools you've applied to, where do you think you would go?

RISD: yes!
Berkeley: nope
U Washington: still waiting
Penn: waiting
UOregon: waiting

Mike- I will be going to RISD on April 2nd.

To the people who have heard from U Washington- did your notice come via email, phone, or snail mail? As for Oregon, I thought we would have heard by now. I vaguely remember them stating in an email that they would send out notices by early March.

Congrats to everyone!

fleuron: congratulations! it's hard to tell where i'd wanna go. I'm from Philadelphia and Penn's program is awesome, but of course so is Harvards. Columbia's program is definitely different than the rest, but it looks really promising. I'd rather see where I get in first to make that decision. I liked UVA's program and their faculty (and facilities), but I really like living in an urban environment, so that was my one turn-off with Charlottesville.
Truth is, all of those schools are great in their own right.

Falon: congrats on RISD! are you MLA 1 or 2? where are you living now? I got my rejection for Washington in the mail yesterday.

thought i'd chime in here. i've applied to both MLA II and MArch I programs:

Scape:

-GSD: waiting
-Penn: waiting
-Berkeley: rejected


Arch:

-Penn: waiting
-CCA: accepted
-Pratt: waiting

I currently live in NYC and would love to stay here, but Penn or GSD would effectively lure me away. I'm secretly ok with being rejected by Berkeley, given what I've heard recently about their program. CCA sounds exciting, and I love San Fran...so it's an option.

Best of luck to all!

Does anyone actually get into Berkeley? I'm beginning to think that there is no program and that the teachers just hole up writing...I'm not disappointed as I'm from the Bay and now feel validated in never having to return. As well, the current drought situation made me nervous about returning...I'm looking for a program that can guarantee water for 3 years.

MLA I

Cornell: Yes
UBC: Yes
Berkeley: No
UWash: No (received the letter yesterday)

Waiting
UO
GSD
Penn

Congrats to everyone who got in places and I'm right there with you flinching every time I open my email or the mailbox...


DLB

dlb-

i've had similar thoughts. haven't heard from anyone who has been accepted to Berkeley for Fall '09. the state of CA is going bankrupt, so maybe they are only accepting those who require no financial aid? they did mentioned having an extremely low ceiling of open spots, but that may be idle chatter...we'll never know.

congrats on cornell and ubc...great news!

i too, never imagined that checking gmail would evoke bouts of flinching, but it will be worth it once it's all said and done.

good luck...

O2K

Falon-

I received the UW letter by mail; however, it was a small letter. I thought I was toast due to the lack of heft and size, but it just looks like UW will send financial aid packets out at a later date.

FYI, I applied to the first professional MLA program. Hope that helps.

Good luck!

I was actually accepted to the UC Berkeley MLA I program for this upcoming fall. Perhaps my being a California resident had a role in that? How bizarre that no one else has heard of any other acceptances...

good luck to you all as we all wait to hear!

i'm happy the MLA's are coming out of the woodwork, but we've still got a ways to go to match the M.Arch's frenzy on this forum. there's massive acceptance activity for them this week. i hope it's our turn soon.

dlb (or anyone) - are you going to visit Cornell? or have you?

did anyone apply to CCNY? i'm in new york and it is really the only option here (and dirt cheap,) but i'm skeptical.

and mike de - i totally hear you on the charlottesville thing. i think it's the best match for me program wise, but i'm am slightly terrified of that town. i'll be the crazy brooklyn hipster artist that totally sticks out on campus. and i do wonder how effectively they can teach landscape urbanism in what is essentially a small town. and i'll have to buy a car....

all that said, if uva is the best school i get into, i'll just tell myself that i'll be in the studio so much that the city i'm in is irrelevant and i'll be totally psyched.

good luck everyone!!

Can anyone comment on U of Michigans 3 year MLA prgram?

Mike- I'm MLA I (three year program). I live in Chicago. Where do you live?

Charlottesville was the deal breaker for me. That's why I didn't apply to UVA. I'm committed to living car-free and, thus, my future place of residence MUST be a good place to walk and bike. Virginia is gorgeous, so maybe that makes up for it! I think it's only reasonable to attend the best school you can regardless of the pricetag or lack of urbanism.

CCV- By the way, that's awesome that you got in to Berkeley.
I am curious to know how many people were accepted to Berkeley? Can you share any insight with us?

"i do wonder how effectively they can teach landscape urbanism in what is essentially a small town."

northern virginia, dc, baltimore, the east coast, etc. like any place else, project site selection is made based on studio criteria rather than proximity.

Congratulations to all who are starting to receive acceptances! You are in the driver seat now.

There are so many reasons to base your decisions about where to study--the location, the faculty, the facilities, the resources, the other students. None of them are key are on their own. It is the mix. What is important?

Knowing the conditions that foster your own learning, creativity and risk taking. What is the culture (not content) of studio in each program you are considering? You will be spend most of your time working in the studios, not experiencing the benefits or limitations of small towns or big cities.

Separating out reputation in the past from what is happening now. Alums can't help here. You need to visit the Schools, or talk to current students. Ask specific questions. Who are the new hires? Which faculty members will be on sabbatical while you are there? Is the curriculum set or changing and how? How will the private universities be impacted by their endowment losses? How will the public universities be impacted by state budget problems? What will the program be like for you and your class over the next 2-3 years?

Afraid of a program because of location? too rural? too urban? too remote? too crowded? There is nothing like living in places outside of your familiar social or geographic comfort zone to open you up to new ways of seeing and making. Some of the comments in this thread about location remind me of why our nation is so polarized. Everyone lives near people just like them--by class, race, political persuasion. Being open to the unfamiliar is a trait of a creative being, just as acknowledging and respecting the other is key to political discourse.

Good luck with your decisions!

i got a package from GSD yesterday afternoon(friday).

I live in Boston area, so i think it got to me fast.
I am still in shock, and I feel like GSD will call me on Monday to take the package away from me.. haha

Hope you guys get good news next week!

congratulations roo! i can't believe the letters are out. how long before they make it to brooklyn???!!!

muck-raker -

first of all, thank you so much for your advice on the kind of questions to ask when making this decision. keep them coming.

regarding my particular statements about UVA - it's not that i'm reluctant to move to charlottesville b/c of the unfamiliar, i'm reluctant because it is familiar. i went to undergrad in knoxville, tn. and the thing about polarization is exactly why i'm questioning charlottesville. it's soooo homogenous.

i'm totally excited to have been accepted to UVA and from what i know, the program is a great fit for me and i'm definitely going to the open house to explore more. i was just voicing my concern about the location as the one drawback that i'm seeing and asking for opinions on exactly how much location matters...which i'm getting.

Wow, a hearty congratulations, Roo! I can't imagine what that must feel like. I am now so completely freaked out by the mailbox but thank you for the heads-up. Like Tom Petty says, 'The waiting is the hardest part'.

This is excellent commentary, Muck-raker. I wish I had a lot of your advice when I began this process last summer.

CCV - Congrats on Berkeley! it is such an excellent program and I was pretty impressed when I visited. Can I ask if you have a strong background in science?

Fleuron - I did visit Cornell last year, and while I left thinking it felt a tad isolated and 'old school' (only 2 new hires in 10 years) I am beginning to think that it is a well rounded program, construction method/history/horticulture-wise that will allow me to be creative and find my voice in a less intense atmosphere. As well, I am interested in pursuing landscape preservation in my future and there is a lot of opportunity to make that happen there. Pretty spendy though and I do feel like they are feeling the economic crunch. Overall, I feel like personally I fit in there a lot more than some schools I visited - Berkeley, GSD, UMASS, UO.

That said, I still have a few apps out and every time I get accepted or denied it changes everything, such an emotional roller coaster this month has been. I am so happy to have a couple options at this point, I had no clue where my app would fit in all this, especially with the economy potentially adding so many more applicants.

N'ermind CCV - just read your initial post about environmental science...

After I read ROO's comment I went to the mail box, and I also have my GSD acceptance. I thought it was going to be weeks more of waiting. So expensive, so little money. Still very excited! Good luck to everyone.

i got into GSD too!!

New here to the forum. I got into (MLA I):

UCB
GSD
UVA

Waiting on UPENN. I have read the responses, the need to talk to current students seems to be the most crucial aspect about finding out important information. I did just have a few questions that perhaps some of the more informed folks could assist with.

Does a name like Harvard open more doors than UVA? What does it mean to have gone to the school with the biggest name? I don't want that to really factor into my decision making process, but I cannot help it, on some level.

Does anyone know which school is doing the most contemporary, theoretical work? Work that is a departure from the norm, or the standard practice? In a manner of speaking, who is doing the hippest work? Is Harvard old-school, in a way?

gsd, uva, penn open different sets of doors. If you know what direction you want to go, figure out which schools will help. If you want to design golf courses, no Ivy will help. Each school offers a range of pragmatic to utopian to esoteric studios along the way. Penn plays well with folk like reiser+umamoto & KBAS, while GSD and UVA have their own enfant terrible pushing boundaries. Remember that you get to select your own elective and make picks in the studio lotteries for advanced studios.

Defining 'contemporary, theoretical work' is a whole other discussion. Personally, I feel that theory is a dead end - we have much more challenging and interesting issues to explore with emergent systems, and landscape urbanism versus theory for theories sake. Theory was part of the previous economy. Becoming 'hip' is not sufficient justification for $100k of student loans.

To the other GSD folks, are you in the 1 1/2 year, 2 year or 3 year track?

treekiller - I would consider "emergent systems, and landscape urbanism" the very epitome of "contemporary theoretical work".

have any MLA II applicants heard from GSD? looks like they rendered MLA I decisions first

my idea of theory is stuff like heiddeger and delueze, or even balmond's advanced geometry type of stuff. Theory would be land art or reiser+umamoto sorts of folks. not if you build a build a park a dense neighborhood will emerge Landscape Urbanism or create a swale and a riparian woodland will happen as an emergent habitat. Studying logistic systems to find out the implications on the landscape is not theory. applying a pixelated photo to a site and calling it macaroni is.

like I said, theory versus useful practices is worthy of another thread - we've had a few on landscape urbanism already.

anti - re: your question about GSD, i am 3 year.

obital2000,
i applied for 3 years, but was offered 2 year. I dont know if that counts though. i am sure you will hear something early next week! :) good luck!