I have several friends from college that became electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, etc. None of them work on the MEP side of things. A good EE friend said those guys are just "electricians" in his mind. Even if a MEP engineer has his PE, the vast majority of engineers out there look down on that profession. I don't blame them, on any project the architect runs the show. Meanwhile my engineer friends do design work where they are the leader, and make much more $$$ in the process. I'm not surprised that the best engineering grads aren't going into the MEP line of work.
I find that alot of the guys I work with, work their steady salaried jobs and then take on MEP and structural analysis work on the side. I wouldn't say they're dumb, they certainly do make good money, very good money doing those side jobs for very little effort...that sounds like they're smart to me.
Amazing! This is the least intelligent and productive thread I have ever seen. If you truly have passion for this industry you would have had a bit more sense to phrase the question in a less provocative tone and in a spirit seeking to understand and motivate other disciplines in your field. However this is not what this post is about.
I will do my best to be edifying here: Unfortunately MEP engineering must cater to the lowest common denominator because owners developers and architects to a lesser degree, or maybe old school architects have little ability to judge the quality of an MEP design and an even harder time justifying the design Fees that would be associated with a quality design. So it comes down to ROI, if the designs are indistinguishable to client, the cheapest design wins based on budget. The second aspect is reliability and the sophistication of the end user/contractor for example what are the chances that a sophisticated controls strategy would be installed / commissioned / operated correctly without the end user bypassing it entirely?
An architect has the responsibility to advocate for quality MEP designs and so few in my experience do, and fewer have a broader view of the field, and some like the dingbats here are too arrogant to ask any meaningful questions.
Dec 21, 24 2:17 pm ·
·
b3tadine[sutures]
Ugh. Really? The above not only proves the criticism, but that MEPs lack a sense of humor, and you’re “timely” with your redline response. 2008? My god.
Dec 21, 24 2:58 pm ·
·
MEP idiot
Did you read where I said I will try to be edifying. There is a real issue that all can work on here. The Architecht can be an advocate for good MEP design and widen their horizons and the engineers can fight the urge to get cynical and lazy. Still relevant today bud, and I thought this was a professional forum. My next post will be a knock knock joke.
Dec 21, 24 3:55 pm ·
·
MEP idiot
I would like an architect to ask questions on the MEP side and get involved, so many are happy knowing less. I worked with a few that were engaging, however most architects think of MEP in terms of where we can hide it and that is as far as it goes. It is sad!
Yeah, maybe you just don’t know what you’re talking about? Most of the clients I work with don’t have the budgets for LEED Platinum. Most of my clients are trying to deal with aggressive supply chain issues, high equipment costs, and seriously constrained schedules. As an architect it’s not important for me to understand the inner workings of a mechanical system, or electrical system, anymore than it’s your responsibility to understand what goes into a wall assembly, which side of the wall the vapor retarder goes, or any of the myriad of finishes we have to specify. Nor is it your responsibility to make sure the grades time out around the building. It is my responsibility to make sure that the ductwork can pass through a packed corridor above ceiling, or that the beam penetrations are coordinated with structural, and oh by the way, whether or not an exterior canopy requires dry pipe sprinkler. You don’t do that, I do that. I have to continually coordinate MEP with each other, not that mechanical or electrical ever talks to one another, when they’re in the same fucking office. FWIW, the three engineers I tie myself to are in the following order; Civil, Structural, and Mechanical. So, please, spare me this hill you’re dying on. This was a rather benign, and forgettable thread, it went no-where, and generally - with some typical jokes - fairly complementary to the fields we all work with. In case you’re forgetting, the initial post started off with a question about engineers, not a statement about their quality of information.
Dec 21, 24 7:50 pm ·
·
MEP idiot
I am not going to get into a contest with you on who does what, unlike many here I have respect for all professionals in my field. You are not asked to be an experts you simply need to engineering literate or ask questions. I think great architects have the ability to manage the client which can be challenging, however when you factor in lifecycle costs, energy consumption the payback can be huge for a small increase in upfront fee not to mention savings in initial construction costs from change orders and poor coordinations.
I make it my business to understand wall assemblies, fire ratings, code requirements, egress, thermal bridging, envelope performance when designing Systems, outboard vs inboard insulation, energy modeling, etc. however what I am simply hoping to communicate to Architects if you
Dec 21, 24 9:29 pm ·
·
MEP idiot
I have worked for AE firms and Engineering firms I have been on both sides of the isle and found myself camping out with the Architects to coordinate and gain appreciation for what they care about to make both my job and their’s easier. However what I find toxic is, I don’t care just put it out of sight attitude.
Dec 21, 24 9:32 pm ·
·
MEP idiot
The self involved architect is the absolute worst.
Talking about the professional kettle calling the pot black - all aspects of the building systems are the sole responsibility of the ARCHITECT and not the consulting engineers (and that's what they are) - when CD's don't covey defining design intent these engineers then become de facto architectural designers which is NOT their job - if you don't talk their engineering "language" (really not that hard) and don't keep up with the industry technology perhaps you should think about a career in teaching - do your damn job - many of the architects I've worked with couldn't find their construction drawings' ass with both hands - don't blame consultants - blame the School's of Architecture or your lazy self ...
are MEPs the dumbest engineers out there?
Yup there sure are.
sorry I meant 'they' not 'there'
I have several friends from college that became electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, etc. None of them work on the MEP side of things. A good EE friend said those guys are just "electricians" in his mind. Even if a MEP engineer has his PE, the vast majority of engineers out there look down on that profession. I don't blame them, on any project the architect runs the show. Meanwhile my engineer friends do design work where they are the leader, and make much more $$$ in the process. I'm not surprised that the best engineering grads aren't going into the MEP line of work.
I find that alot of the guys I work with, work their steady salaried jobs and then take on MEP and structural analysis work on the side. I wouldn't say they're dumb, they certainly do make good money, very good money doing those side jobs for very little effort...that sounds like they're smart to me.
Amazing! This is the least intelligent and productive thread I have ever seen. If you truly have passion for this industry you would have had a bit more sense to phrase the question in a less provocative tone and in a spirit seeking to understand and motivate other disciplines in your field. However this is not what this post is about.
I will do my best to be edifying here:
Unfortunately MEP engineering must cater to the lowest common denominator because owners developers and architects to a lesser degree, or maybe old school architects have little ability to judge the quality of an MEP design and an even harder time justifying the design Fees that would be associated with a quality design. So it comes down to ROI, if the designs are indistinguishable to client, the cheapest design wins based on budget. The second aspect is reliability and the sophistication of the end user/contractor for example what are the chances that a sophisticated controls strategy would be installed / commissioned / operated correctly without the end user bypassing it entirely?
An architect has the responsibility to advocate for quality MEP designs and so few in my experience do, and fewer have a broader view of the field, and some like the dingbats here are too arrogant to ask any meaningful questions.
Ugh. Really? The above not only proves the criticism, but that MEPs lack a sense of humor, and you’re “timely” with your redline response. 2008? My god.
Did you read where I said I will try to be edifying. There is a real issue that all can work on here. The Architecht can be an advocate for good MEP design and widen their horizons and the engineers can fight the urge to get cynical and lazy. Still relevant today bud, and I thought this was a professional forum. My next post will be a knock knock joke.
I would like an architect to ask questions on the MEP side and get involved, so many are happy knowing less. I worked with a few that were engaging, however most architects think of MEP in terms of where we can hide it and that is as far as it goes. It is sad!
Yeah, maybe you just don’t know what you’re talking about? Most of the clients I work with don’t have the budgets for LEED Platinum. Most of my clients are trying to deal with aggressive supply chain issues, high equipment costs, and seriously constrained schedules. As an architect it’s not important for me to understand the inner workings of a mechanical system, or electrical system, anymore than it’s your responsibility to understand what goes into a wall assembly, which side of the wall the vapor retarder goes, or any of the myriad of finishes we have to specify. Nor is it your responsibility to make sure the grades time out around the building. It is my responsibility to make sure that the ductwork can pass through a packed corridor above ceiling, or that the beam penetrations are coordinated with structural, and oh by the way, whether or not an exterior canopy requires dry pipe sprinkler. You don’t do that, I do that. I have to continually coordinate MEP with each other, not that mechanical or electrical ever talks to one another, when they’re in the same fucking office. FWIW, the three engineers I tie myself to are in the following order; Civil, Structural, and Mechanical. So, please, spare me this hill you’re dying on. This was a rather benign, and forgettable thread, it went no-where, and generally - with some typical jokes - fairly complementary to the fields we all work with. In case you’re forgetting, the initial post started off with a question about engineers, not a statement about their quality of information.
I am not going to get into a contest with you on who does what, unlike many here I have respect for all professionals in my field. You are not asked to be an experts you simply need to engineering literate or ask questions. I think great architects have the ability to manage the client which can be challenging, however when you factor in lifecycle costs, energy consumption the payback can be huge for a small increase in upfront fee not to mention savings in initial construction costs from change orders and poor coordinations.
I make it my business to understand wall assemblies, fire ratings, code requirements, egress, thermal bridging, envelope performance when designing Systems, outboard vs inboard insulation, energy modeling, etc. however what I am simply hoping to communicate to Architects if you
I have worked for AE firms and Engineering firms I have been on both sides of the isle and found myself camping out with the Architects to coordinate and gain appreciation for what they care about to make both my job and their’s easier. However what I find toxic is, I don’t care just put it out of sight attitude.
The self involved architect is the absolute worst.
Talking about the professional kettle calling the pot black - all aspects of the building systems are the sole responsibility of the ARCHITECT and not the consulting engineers (and that's what they are) - when CD's don't covey defining design intent these engineers then become de facto architectural designers which is NOT their job - if you don't talk their engineering "language" (really not that hard) and don't keep up with the industry technology perhaps you should think about a career in teaching - do your damn job - many of the architects I've worked with couldn't find their construction drawings' ass with both hands - don't blame consultants - blame the School's of Architecture or your lazy self ...
superficial architects don't survive the professional heat - and Happy Holidays! ...
You’re a dope.
sorry to speak the truth - do you know any architects that shouldn't be in this exacting profession? ...
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