I'm a 27-year old Chicagoan, in the midst of assembling materials to apply for M. Arch programs for 2013. I studied mass communications and studio art during my undergraduate education, so I am doing my best to produce a compelling portfolio without fooling myself into thinking it will hold a candle to those produced by emerging B.Archs (browsing these forums has certainly helped to cement my understanding of the disparity). The truth is that I've only really begun to learn about architecture in the past year, but I like to believe I've come a long way.
In researching grad schools, I'm trying to hone in on what I'm looking for in terms of pedagogical agenda. I know the whole UIC v. IIT question has been batted around endlessly on this site, but as a Chicago resident, their differences introduced me to the ideological tug-of-war in architectural education (though I'm sure there are more factions than I'm acknowledging). I respect the work that IIT students are producing (a lot), but in terms of culture, I think that I find UIC more exciting --- emphasis on theory, an openness to what can be considered architecture, etc. For lack of a better word, UIC seems to have more fun, and I like to believe that there's room for that in architectural education, provided that you don't expect to cut corners around the late nights in the studio, deadlines hovering over your head at all times, etc (which I don't). Here's a short list of schools that I'm interested in applying to based on fairly limited knowledge. Not all of them will necessarily even fit the bill with what I just said (that's how much I need your help). Some feedback on any of them, as well as recommendations as to other programs that might be philosophically oriented with some of them, would be most appreciated.
UCLA // Berkeley // Cooper Union // UIC // Rice // SCI-Arc // Columbia // Woodbury (?)
And what's the deal with the Ivy schools? Everybody seems to want to go to GSD for obvious reasons (outstanding reputation and networking opportunities, chance to take MIT courses, huge budget for visiting faculty, impressive facilities). Do I have a shot in hell of being admitted to a program of this prestige with a non-architecture oriented portfolio, very good but not amazing GPA in undergrad, etc. (the rest is as yet undetermined)?
This is getting quite long, but I'd love some feedback from anybody with a stray thought on this stuff (meaning everybody, probably). Thank you and goodnight.
Studying architecture requires great commitment so be sure it's a school you like. I studied at both IIT and UIC in the past 4-5 years. Both schools have the highest level of accreditation.
You are correct. UIC is the more theoretical. In the past five years, UIC has been shifting back to it's 1980s years of being theory-focused. The Director, Associate Director and Assistant Director are actually not registered architects, last I checked. But there are some good practicing architects on staff. UIC puts forth an image of "more fun" and it is sort of like high school. It is about popularity with Director Bob Somol behaving a lot like the most popular kid in the cafeteria. So if you are cool with him, you will do well and have fun. If you are not cool, then you will be miserable, you won't exist, just like in high school. I'm not kidding. You have to learn to dress cool and talk cool or you won't be accepted at Bob's cafeteria table. Unfortunately, more than a few good faculty who have a lot to offer you in abilities you can market have been let go simply because they weren't cool. Because it's fun, don't think it's about being more creative: Somol & Co. seem to project certain ways of thinking that you have to accept to do well. I voted for Obama in 2008 when I was there, but if you didn't agree with his politics it seemed he would subtly mock you and even politicized class meetings. Before going, be sure to bone up on the Ramones and Lou Reed, Somol's high school idols. If you're an overt Christian, don't bother. Somol has cleaned house so that the faculty are mostly hand-picked to fall in line with his views; the ones still there who don't just cower in their office waiting for retirement.
IIT is undergoing a change. They just announced a new director, Wiel Arets. The previous director is still there, but stepped down after a very long tenure of 14 years. Donna Robertson was very dedicated to seeing students be educated. While more dry than UIC's school and director, Robertson was dedicated to seeing the students learn theory and practice. Arets is an unknown quality. He is Dutch; Somol and UIC is influenced by the Dutch these days. But if you look at Arets' work, you see that he actually builds real buildings that look hip and actually work. I think you can except to learn the same.
If you go to student exhibits by UIC versus IIT, you will notice that IIT students design more things that could actually be built or have a better chance of being built.
In my humble opinion, the bottom line is that UIC is more focussed on talking about buildings, while IIT is about making buildings. UIC has a high school art class culture while IIT is about growing up and being an architect. If you plan to go into academia and you have lots of money and don't have student loans, UIC is probably better. If you want better chances of actually practicing architecture, then go to IIT, there's lots of financial aid. And if you weren't popular in high school, well, UIC is your second chance to try and be popular. But if you're grown up, go to IIT.
Thanks for the perspective. Makes me realize that I need to reopen the book on the IIT/UIC dichotomy and keep it open. I'll take a harder look at IIT, and hopefully along the way some more information about where Arets plans to take the school will begin to emerge. Just looked at his firm's website, and I see he has several published works. I'll have to check them out. That said, my positive impression of UIC was driven largely by the amount of time and attention they gave to me when I visited,
I guess I'm still wondering if anybody can suggest some programs I should look into that I did not mention in my prior post? Despite what I thought was an excellent reputation, I've seen a lot of people on these forums snort at the implication that SCI-Arc is up there in terms of grad programs. As somebody who is considering applying there, I'd be curious to hear their reasons. If my interest in the school is mostly rooted in what set them apart in the past in terms of their approach and mission, then what programs should I be looking into that are pushing things in a new direction today? I've heard Cooper Union and Woodbury, which is why they were on my radar. Any other places that might be a little less heralded, but are heading in the right direction? Is SCI-Arc still considered to be pushing the envelope with regard to technology, or is UCLA just as comprehensive in this arena, as I've seen many suggest? Where do some other schools with big name recognition fit into that discussion?
As a recent graduate of the MArch program at UIC, I feel that the comments made by JY-H are unnecessarily catty and spiteful. If you are going to advise someone else on a potentially huge decision then you should be fully educated and unemotional about the subject. My personal experience during my three years at UIC was extremely rewarding. Frankly, when I was considering graduate schools and choosing between UIC and IIT, the thought of learning about "how to build a building" was not even taken into account. Those are things you learn at an architecture firm, in the professional world.
At UIC you are taught to think critically and to question established modes of thought and ways of designing. Each professor, staff member, and administrator brings something different to the table and as mentioned in this post by Matt Messner, they come from all architectural education and work backgrounds after turning down or leaving posts at these other schools that you champion. Bob Somol, as Director, offers unprecedented access to his students. And by teaching several courses a semester in a manner that JY-H perceived as "mocking", was actually forcing you to think hard about what it is that you believe, and to be able to back it up.
I recognize that at UIC there is a perception that there is "cool crowd" but as an adult long past high school, the hard work I poured in to my graduate education paid off with acknowledgements, job offers, and awards from both inside and outside the school. I was not someone that JY-H would've associated with the "cool table"; however, after graduation from UIC, I was offered two jobs at respectable architecture firms in Chicago, but ultimately chose to take a position offered me by Bob and UIC to become a faculty and staff member here.
To Mrring, if you have questions about a School perhaps it would be better to ask them directly rather than asking for help from the forum. Just as all online forums tend to be, it seems that this one has become an avenue for people to vent their frustrations and anger passive aggressively.
Sep 27, 12 12:31 pm ·
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M. Arch program recommendations?
Hello --
I'm a 27-year old Chicagoan, in the midst of assembling materials to apply for M. Arch programs for 2013. I studied mass communications and studio art during my undergraduate education, so I am doing my best to produce a compelling portfolio without fooling myself into thinking it will hold a candle to those produced by emerging B.Archs (browsing these forums has certainly helped to cement my understanding of the disparity). The truth is that I've only really begun to learn about architecture in the past year, but I like to believe I've come a long way.
In researching grad schools, I'm trying to hone in on what I'm looking for in terms of pedagogical agenda. I know the whole UIC v. IIT question has been batted around endlessly on this site, but as a Chicago resident, their differences introduced me to the ideological tug-of-war in architectural education (though I'm sure there are more factions than I'm acknowledging). I respect the work that IIT students are producing (a lot), but in terms of culture, I think that I find UIC more exciting --- emphasis on theory, an openness to what can be considered architecture, etc. For lack of a better word, UIC seems to have more fun, and I like to believe that there's room for that in architectural education, provided that you don't expect to cut corners around the late nights in the studio, deadlines hovering over your head at all times, etc (which I don't). Here's a short list of schools that I'm interested in applying to based on fairly limited knowledge. Not all of them will necessarily even fit the bill with what I just said (that's how much I need your help). Some feedback on any of them, as well as recommendations as to other programs that might be philosophically oriented with some of them, would be most appreciated.
UCLA // Berkeley // Cooper Union // UIC // Rice // SCI-Arc // Columbia // Woodbury (?)
And what's the deal with the Ivy schools? Everybody seems to want to go to GSD for obvious reasons (outstanding reputation and networking opportunities, chance to take MIT courses, huge budget for visiting faculty, impressive facilities). Do I have a shot in hell of being admitted to a program of this prestige with a non-architecture oriented portfolio, very good but not amazing GPA in undergrad, etc. (the rest is as yet undetermined)?
This is getting quite long, but I'd love some feedback from anybody with a stray thought on this stuff (meaning everybody, probably). Thank you and goodnight.
That was written at about 4am, so apologies for the parentheses abuse.
Studying architecture requires great commitment so be sure it's a school you like. I studied at both IIT and UIC in the past 4-5 years. Both schools have the highest level of accreditation.
You are correct. UIC is the more theoretical. In the past five years, UIC has been shifting back to it's 1980s years of being theory-focused. The Director, Associate Director and Assistant Director are actually not registered architects, last I checked. But there are some good practicing architects on staff. UIC puts forth an image of "more fun" and it is sort of like high school. It is about popularity with Director Bob Somol behaving a lot like the most popular kid in the cafeteria. So if you are cool with him, you will do well and have fun. If you are not cool, then you will be miserable, you won't exist, just like in high school. I'm not kidding. You have to learn to dress cool and talk cool or you won't be accepted at Bob's cafeteria table. Unfortunately, more than a few good faculty who have a lot to offer you in abilities you can market have been let go simply because they weren't cool. Because it's fun, don't think it's about being more creative: Somol & Co. seem to project certain ways of thinking that you have to accept to do well. I voted for Obama in 2008 when I was there, but if you didn't agree with his politics it seemed he would subtly mock you and even politicized class meetings. Before going, be sure to bone up on the Ramones and Lou Reed, Somol's high school idols. If you're an overt Christian, don't bother. Somol has cleaned house so that the faculty are mostly hand-picked to fall in line with his views; the ones still there who don't just cower in their office waiting for retirement.
IIT is undergoing a change. They just announced a new director, Wiel Arets. The previous director is still there, but stepped down after a very long tenure of 14 years. Donna Robertson was very dedicated to seeing students be educated. While more dry than UIC's school and director, Robertson was dedicated to seeing the students learn theory and practice. Arets is an unknown quality. He is Dutch; Somol and UIC is influenced by the Dutch these days. But if you look at Arets' work, you see that he actually builds real buildings that look hip and actually work. I think you can except to learn the same.
If you go to student exhibits by UIC versus IIT, you will notice that IIT students design more things that could actually be built or have a better chance of being built.
In my humble opinion, the bottom line is that UIC is more focussed on talking about buildings, while IIT is about making buildings. UIC has a high school art class culture while IIT is about growing up and being an architect. If you plan to go into academia and you have lots of money and don't have student loans, UIC is probably better. If you want better chances of actually practicing architecture, then go to IIT, there's lots of financial aid. And if you weren't popular in high school, well, UIC is your second chance to try and be popular. But if you're grown up, go to IIT.
JY-H, thanks for that honest write-up. I've been thinking about IIT a great deal and I like what you've said.
Thanks for the perspective. Makes me realize that I need to reopen the book on the IIT/UIC dichotomy and keep it open. I'll take a harder look at IIT, and hopefully along the way some more information about where Arets plans to take the school will begin to emerge. Just looked at his firm's website, and I see he has several published works. I'll have to check them out. That said, my positive impression of UIC was driven largely by the amount of time and attention they gave to me when I visited,
I guess I'm still wondering if anybody can suggest some programs I should look into that I did not mention in my prior post? Despite what I thought was an excellent reputation, I've seen a lot of people on these forums snort at the implication that SCI-Arc is up there in terms of grad programs. As somebody who is considering applying there, I'd be curious to hear their reasons. If my interest in the school is mostly rooted in what set them apart in the past in terms of their approach and mission, then what programs should I be looking into that are pushing things in a new direction today? I've heard Cooper Union and Woodbury, which is why they were on my radar. Any other places that might be a little less heralded, but are heading in the right direction? Is SCI-Arc still considered to be pushing the envelope with regard to technology, or is UCLA just as comprehensive in this arena, as I've seen many suggest? Where do some other schools with big name recognition fit into that discussion?
As a recent graduate of the MArch program at UIC, I feel that the comments made by JY-H are unnecessarily catty and spiteful. If you are going to advise someone else on a potentially huge decision then you should be fully educated and unemotional about the subject. My personal experience during my three years at UIC was extremely rewarding. Frankly, when I was considering graduate schools and choosing between UIC and IIT, the thought of learning about "how to build a building" was not even taken into account. Those are things you learn at an architecture firm, in the professional world.
At UIC you are taught to think critically and to question established modes of thought and ways of designing. Each professor, staff member, and administrator brings something different to the table and as mentioned in this post by Matt Messner, they come from all architectural education and work backgrounds after turning down or leaving posts at these other schools that you champion. Bob Somol, as Director, offers unprecedented access to his students. And by teaching several courses a semester in a manner that JY-H perceived as "mocking", was actually forcing you to think hard about what it is that you believe, and to be able to back it up.
I recognize that at UIC there is a perception that there is "cool crowd" but as an adult long past high school, the hard work I poured in to my graduate education paid off with acknowledgements, job offers, and awards from both inside and outside the school. I was not someone that JY-H would've associated with the "cool table"; however, after graduation from UIC, I was offered two jobs at respectable architecture firms in Chicago, but ultimately chose to take a position offered me by Bob and UIC to become a faculty and staff member here.
To Mrring, if you have questions about a School perhaps it would be better to ask them directly rather than asking for help from the forum. Just as all online forums tend to be, it seems that this one has become an avenue for people to vent their frustrations and anger passive aggressively.
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