oh nevermore, you're a hopeless romantic!

"architecture = aesthetic organization of practical reality"

- if that involves a pen or not is up to you.

so what is photoshop to you? the techniques used on sketch up can be readily reproduced by using multiple images and layers in photoshop...this is a non issue.

yeah, I haven't seen this "sketchy-effect" from their latest version 6, but it's been here for a while... Form-Z has same effect since... I guess 2003 (their last version, no?). As beta said, you can do that in Photoshop with multiple layers of smart-blur, too.
nevermore, if SketchUp has made you think it's scam, I can't wait to see your reaction after seeing what Piranesi can do.

It's just another tool.

betadine, as per what you said anyone can create such images using either photoshop or sketchup now.

(at the risk of sounding like Im cribbing ).. then even a structural engineer with a talented draughtsman can make designs.

if someone will argue that an engineer + draughtsman can make presentations but cannot 'design'....

then I know numerous examples of draughtsman + engineers who have worked in design offices for a long period of time and have learnt the basic nuances of design, on the job and can parcel off basic functional work (along with a great presentation of the same).

My issue there : where does that leave us ? ..Are the boundaries of various professions getting so diluted and is that a good thing or a bad thing ?

What do you know it took a retarded program like sketch up to expose our worthless-ness without a pencil....WOW

It’s like doctors complaining that they can't use a rusted tin can...but instead have to use a scalpel...or even a machine! The agony! The annihilation! Oh the poor pitiful fate of the built environment....I shall now...die. because I have to adapt, evolve and become something new…booohoooo.

you still need to know how to design...isn't that WHAT architects do?

it helps to separate the wheat from the chaff, the mice from the men, the you know what i'm saying.

now anybody can make a pretty picture, but you still need talent and dedication to do good work. and talent may be stronger in some than others, but it always takes time, discipline and experience to really make something great.

that being said though, don't get your panties too far up in a bunch. times are changing...always have been.

you gotta' pay to play, and you definitely don't want to fall too far behind on the technology.

i've used the 'sketch' function in vectorworks from time to time to see what it can do. it is tedious to make them look remotely legit and although it looks cute, it has NONE of the immediacy of a quickly rendered thumbnail sketch. and it's not like you want to bring your laptop to the jobsite so you can quickly 'sketch' out that waterprofing detail for the GC. you still need to be able to draw, no?

I agree with you wholeheartedly nevermore – well, maybe not to the level of conspiracy!

Regardless, I utilize a copious amount of software products to convey ideas, but I use paper and pencil to initiate the design; if you can’t convey the idea through this method you have no business being in the business:) at least in my book.

And yes, I have grave concerns about the utilization of software products. Think about it; couldn't software replace the need for an architect? I mean, anyone can buy software to "build your own house". Are their repercussions? Will the industry endure change? Are the boundaries of various professions getting diluted? Yes, yes, and yes.

good god, man...this is ridiculous.

I'm going to say it again. YOU still need to know how to design. Period.

Let me put it another way. Let's just say that John Coltrane let me borrow his sax. There is no frickin' way I'm going to get that horn to sound like JC does. Same goes for Miles.

Ok, rothko67, let me go another direction. A number of years ago, you had to know computer programming to design a website, a portal, a blog etc. With the evolution of software, a novice user can now easily create a website, portal, blog, etc. without knowing a thing about coding. It's as easy as signing up (myspace.com) or registering for a service (blogspot.com).

As you could imagine, the need for software engineers or website designers has decreased because there is software available to the novice user to build these kinds of things. You are fooling yourself if you think Architects have nothing to worry about. Architects should research lessons learned from other disciplines (e.g. computer science and software engineering) and identify how they might alter their course of action.

"I'm going to say it again. YOU still need to know how to design. Period." Yeah, that's what computer programmers said years ago – they were considered design gods of their own entity and thought they were untouchable. Things have changed over the course of a few decades. Let me give an example – a software portal. Potals integrate items called "gadgets". These gadgets are easily customizable and manipulated by the user, and essentially, the user customizes the interface design.

So how is this different from knowing how to design a building? If there is a design methodology to follow, it could easily be duplicated and integrated in a software program. The program could validate the design for meeting certain specifications. Unless you are referring to the individualism in design, yes, that is left up to the user, but a software program could still validate the specification of the design. I kind of look at it like TurboTax – you use the software to do your taxes yet you are not an accountant, but the software walks you through the steps to make sure that you do not tread dangerous waters (e.g. an audit).

is it important who creates "architecture" anymore, as long as they CREATE architecture?? at Stevens - in Hoboken - the had comp sci's, NASA aeronautical engineers, mathematicians, product engineers, etc...all creating "architecture"...so what if someone wants to draw like an architect, i am flattered, but who says they can DESIGN like one??

making things look hand-drawn misses the point. hand-drawing is valuable because it can be done quickly, anywhere, on anything. not because of its 'look'.

anyway,the software issue is irrelevant. hell, the drawing question is irrelevant. design influence is impacted in different ways - mostly when people eschew designers because they think they can do it themselves.

people can already 'design' their own kitchen, go to home depot and buy all the pieces and put it together on weekends. they may prepare drawings, they may not.

their kitchen will be a normal collection of the things that they think they are supposed to have in a kitchen. they will use the materials that are seen in the color brochures and in the display at the front of the kitchen sales area because these materials are what they're being told are the trend. it will be ok.

then they will tout their abilities at parties: 'i designed my own kitchen and i didn't need an architect.' this statement will be persuasive, without anyone seeing the subject kitchen.

their realtor, when they sell, will be able to sell it based on an inventory of the things they included, which is all that most buyers care about.

so, we have to communicate our value in different ways than through our drawing abilities or our ability to organize construction. we have to prove that GOOD design provides added value. the profession has not historically been very good at this. don't let the availability of this software trick you into being distracted from the bigger issues.

yeah well, what can you do really. But the real people who sketch can always tell, not by looking at the drawing, but by asking questions.

True beauty comes from the strokes of the hand in my opinion. Sketchup is a powerful tool indeed, but I think some designers/architects forget about the pencil and paper.

rothko, .yea i know that "you still need to know how to design" and all, but probably you didnt read what i wrote earlier,
even some non-architects ( enggs,contractors etc) associated with us can pull off a fairly good design with experience in the field
evn they can 'design' and some can do it as well or even better than us !
so then...would u call them architects ?

as someone said here ---> "is it important who creates "architecture" anymore, as long as they CREATE architecture"....

I think why not call all of em "architects"..or probably do away with the designation altogether ! ! gimme a break

--

Steven and Katze kind of reflected what i was saying..I have nothing againts software and technology , i think its indispensable but i also think it should have a limit.

Steven I would agree that there are larger issues to be addressed in the profession but these small tiny things DO go a long way which affect the integrity and future of our profession.

(In a gist ,Amoroso echoed my sentiments )

wow, loverly paranoia.

i love it that in japan a guy can go to a 2 year community college, work for 5 years in a stock archi-company and come out the other end being jun igarashi (he wrote an interesting article in this months JA in which he compared the act of architecture to urinating from a boat in the middle of the ocean)...so YEAH, if anyone has got the chops then i am absolutely ready to get behind them and let them take on an architect's role...why not? is not like we are doctors or anything...

competition is always a good thing. lack of same is always bad, especially in creative biz.

re the original comment, in office back home (in canada) we used to convert renderings to fake sketches using photoshop...always looked not quite right (cuz the effect was too equally applied maybe). i was a professional artist in youth though...so maybe my viewpoint is off...

but am curious, the sketchup version does better job of making that effect?

if you can't draw a detail by hand on a job site, you're doomed.

Katze,

I am currently a programmer/software engineer (applying for a 2008 MArch) and frankly, the need for *talented* programmers has never dropped. Sure, people can "design" and implement their own widgets, but the moment most of these people wander off from the demos, they are LOST. Having all these extra tools just makes programming more accessible, it doesn't mean everyone who tries it will be ultimately successful at designing and maintaining a large, intricate site.

I'm sure the same is true for architecture. It's like lowering the bar for entry into grad school, but keeping the graduation requirements the same. Would that increase the size of the graduating class? I think it's pretty doubtful.

THE SOFTWARE IS VALUABLE AND SURE ENGINEERS ETC. COULD DESIGN A BUILDING AND MAKE THE RENDERING OF SAID BUILDING LOOK LIKE A SKETCH. I STILL DONT SEE THE DILEMA. WHAT IF AN ENGINEER COULD DRAW VERY WELL FREE HAND IS HE ALL OF A SUDDEN AN ARCHITECT?

THE TECHNOLOGY OPENS THE DOOR TO OUR FIELD TO MORE PEOPLE, BUT IT CERTAINLY DOSENT MAKE EVERY SKILLED OPERATOR AN ARCHITECT.

THE TITLE ARCHITECT GOES A BIT FURTHER THAN WHAT YOU ARE GIVING IT CREDIT FOR. ARCHITECTS ARE EXPERTS AT BUILDING DESIGN. IF YOU HIRE AN ARCHITECT YOU ARE GUARANTEED THAT INDIVIDUAL ENDURED A RIGOROUS TRAINING IN BUILDING DESIGN, NOT JUST IN DRAWING TECHNIQUES AND CAD.

The ability to do what sketchup does (creating what looks like a hand rendering perspective drawing) is what makes an architect valuable? is that a joke? Architecture is about understanding 3 dimensional space, not just about being able to make pretty hand renderings.
People keep talking about sketching a detail on a job site, that’s not at all what sketchup is for. Sketchup tries to simulate hand rendering. I hope hand rendering isn't your only way to get across a concept to a client. It is only one of many tools.

Latest - SU 6 will come with more varriables on the hand drawn style.

Oh great ! now what, are they gonna include a prosthetic hand too in the package !

Nevermore, you need more confidence in yourself. The tools don't make the architect.

But I will say that there is a problem, which is that as more people are able to make quick drawings that "look good" it becomes harder for clients to tell the quality of the architect based on the quality of the presentation. I'm sure this has always been the case to some degree but never like it is now. Architects have to learn how to communicate their talents to a client in a multitude of ways.

I can see this whole thing going two ways, first the title of Architect becomes more important because with the flood of people creating pretty images the title is one way to make sure the person has the proper training and skills. Or we all realize that what architects really do isn't that difficult and the whole profession becomes obsolete.

I'm ready for either one!

Eraser Leech, sorry for the slow response – :) Well, I guess we are in the same boat. I am also a programmer/software engineer, now in architecture school. I agree with you that *talented* programmers are in demand, but I disagree with you that the numbers have never dropped. Computer Science alone has taken a huge hit in the U.S. over the last decade as far as enrolment goes in colleges. This can be attributed to things like overseas development and the heavy support for standardization / reuse / patterns / COTS – they are in full swing. Additionally, applications are getting better and better at providing extremely user-friendly interfaces – all these factors will slowly reduce the number of programmers needed to get the job done. I do agree with you however, that the most intelligent person can struggle with an intuitive and easy to use program. The bottom line, though, is that the tools are available – how customers use them is obviously up to them but the power is at their fingertips.

Nevermore - "prosthetic hand". Hummm. Interesting concept. I'll work that requirement into our next software release :)

Need to know how to Design?!

Look at what they did at Seaside. They created a design book for the builder and owners to create their homes.

Before too long it will be a cut and paste process that you see almost on a daily basis for details and assemblies.

Hah! just adding to the show.

djohnson6940...... "Before too long it will be a cut and paste process that you see almost on a daily basis for details and assemblies."

It's funny and ironic. People who AREN'T architects try to do something like this, and everybody says the sky is falling......

..... an ARCHITECT comes up with the same thing via some design competition/in-house project/etc, and all the other architects are happy to embrace the idea as avant-garde or whatever. It's like nobody's ever heard of pre-fab architecture.

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but I'm sure some of you get my point.

Architecture is, "Design on a need to know basis."

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE AN ARCHITECT SIT DOWN AT A BAR W/ A CLIENT FOR A FEW DRINKS AND HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE CURRENT PROJECT, WHEN THE ARCHITECT BUST OUT OUT THEIR LAPTOP AND DOES SOME SKETCH-UP...THAT WILL ALMOST NEVER HAPPEN...THE COMPUTER CAN NEVER TAKE AWAY MY SLIGHTLY DRUNKEN COCKTAIL NAPKIN SKETCHES
-I GUESS MY POINT IS THAT SOME OF THE BEST DISCUSSIONS AND IDEAS COME OUT OF BAR MEETINGS-RELAXATION, NEUTRAL GROUND AND A FEW COLD ONES.

i like the idea that this will put richard meier out of a job...how many times i would create a 3d rendering of a project then he would be photographed at the lighttable tracing it with his fat greasy conte crayon and then sell it to whoever for a mint....man that guy had all the scams. he also used to take all the scraps from the woodshop, have frank stella (an old friend of his) pour molten metal over them then richie would sell them as sculpture....ahh, suckers born every minute. we just need to be more ruthless in going after them i guess. the quest for "authenticity"!

actually stones your scenario happens quite frequently...

I prefer to do all my renderings in Sharpie v2.0.

ditto on the Sharpie Chili.

Its another tool its like fire it has its good and bad side to it

I still don't think the hand drawing feature on sketchup really looks like a scanned image of a hand drawing. Still looks computerized to me.

I definitely believe that craft separates itself. If you take the time to do a great hand drawing, it will separate itself from the generated look.

sign pen is superior to that hack of an implement you call "the sharpie"

About 15 years ago, in the fairly at'searly days of 3D, I had some little 3rd-party application that could take a 3D model from FormZ and do a pretty good job of making it look like it had been sketched by hand in any of several styles. I could use a little bit of photoshopping to come up with some extremely convincing "hand drawings".
I had some of these in my portfolio - as "charcoal" sketches accompanying photos of a built project - and I had an interview once with a semi-famous architect who saw them and praised my drawing hand and launched into a long lament about the loss of drawing skills in the new generation of architects, and how rare people with my skills were becoming...
I told him the truth about the production methods of the drawings, and while he seemed a little disappointed and embarassed about being fooled by them he said that he had to concede that if the results were the same it didn't matter how the drawings were made. I got that job and did more of those sketches for a couple years. I don't really enjoy drawing by hand, though I can do it competently. I don't tend to sketch on napkins though I admire those who do. I enjoy the 3D modeling and image-editing process more. But for me the purpose of all that work - however it's created - is to get to the end-product of the building itself. This is why I don't care that everyone out there using sketchup can create their own great drawings. I'm not in this to create drawings - I do drawings in order to make buildings.
I have friends who are illustrators and animators who have similar concerns that everybody out there in the world (including architects) now think they can be illustrators and animators...

ahhh but can it print on the napkin, creating a subtle bleed through (i guess it can but would you really want to lug the printer in the bar?)

As a few others have pointed out, the ability to hand sketch isn't valuable mainly for making presentations, but to be able to communicate ideas. A client will be much more impressed if you can draw ideas during a meeting in an interactive setting than if you are able to produce a nice rendering. They might be impressed for about 5 seconds by eye candy, but the memory of that will quickly fade.

Likewise, being able to draw ideas for co-workers on the fly is one of the most valuable skills you can have. Remember, what we produce in the end is a building, not a rendering. Hand drawing is just a tool we use to get there.

It is like these features in a paint program that make a "painting" from a foto.

For those who want the digital touch and a lookalike with no spirit or other creativity than how the pixels are blured that proberly is all right but in a automated manner that will newer make art as what it try look alike.

What I find strange , is that these programs occoured soon after CAD made it possible to do exact works drawings with all those nice features even primitive today but most inspiring back then , but suddenly software was avaible to destroy any well made CAD drawing ,turning 3D back into 2D and with as shaky hands as you ordered ; this realy was no progress !