I don't have any relations that would disqualify me from competing, and sadly, no phone calls have been received here either... usually the word gets out somehow from one of the chosen firms. and have not heard any buzz like that yet. which is unusual. so maybe... just maybe the 8th is still THE day...
just read an article on how English architectural firms are strugling to survive in a development where offices grow larger. The thing is now to sell your smaller sized firm before you are out of business and as long as you still have clients. Can you imagine all those hopefull submissions of offices too small to get the actual project. Its mostly clients that no longer feel safe with a smaller (read 25 or less people) office. You can clearly see those sentiments in competition briefs and announced design competitions.
I don't know the situation in Sweden, I am told Swedish are more modest and more to the point as far their judgement is concerned.
the Stockholm folks gave themselves a clever enough loophole - they reserved the right to determine if the winner had the resources etc. to do the job, and if they felt they did not to team them with a bigger office.
hmm. that picture was taken at 8:09 on november 17th, 2006. I'm curious to find out if the 5 schemes tagged in the background are the 5 schemes that were chosen.
First Comments. Have been following discussion for quite a while.
I beleive some good proposals have yet to be discussed. I can't recall anyone having spoken about:
"skirt"
I beleive this proposal is one of the best. It is extremely bold but at the same time it integrates all the existing elements: Asplund Library+Annexes+Hill+New Library.
I am pretty sure it will make the second stage. I must also confess I am almost one hundred percent sure this proposal is from the Japanes firm SANAA, Sejima and Nishizawa. The concept about the park, which they explored in Kanazawa, and the graphics make me 100 % sure it is them.
most good proposels have been left out sofar but of course with so many plans to look at...
you might be right about SANAA. It does look like their work altough SANAA usually is much more stylish and simple. The whole design as an exterior lacks any kind of impact and the the concept its very complex to understand. I could not understand the handling of media for instance. I have a feeling the author of this plan has not been in Stockholm, I feel the space underneath the rotunda is overrated as a public space, can hardly imagine anyone do that once been there. I can not imagine this plan to win although by itself it could work if you are willing to see the quality SANAA usually achieves. As SANAA they could have done more to expose themself in their drawings and layout, maybe they did if you see their boards full scale. The pdf doesn't work for those fine lines and floorplans.
about the notes, they would never have put such a photo on the web if it was that clear. the notes could be an guide for the categories they ordered the submissions in.
You're right. At a first glance I didn't realize it was SANAA. I didn't understand the project becuase it has no image. But if you analize it carefully the project is extremely simple. It is a simple roof, or surface, that unites all the exisitng elements. In this sense it is one simple move that resolves the entire project; one that becomes an extremely bold statement. They have a proposal for Rome that is similar in the sense that they kept existing buildings and designed their project in the interstitial spaces. It is that kind of project that does not have a clear image but experientially is quite dramatic.
What I don't understand is the glass roof. I come from far, actaully where I live there is alot of sun. Would this work in Stockholm? or this would be a part of the project that would need quite a bit of investigation if it were to win.
By the way, the drawings do expose their style completely. Take a look at the furniture. This is trademark Sejima...
In terms of the rotunda, I don't understand what you mean. According to the diagrams, this space is to be dedicated to the subject areas...
as far as Skirt goes, I get a bit suspicious when I see a translucent bubble without any structure or anything of the like. That being said, I guess I understand the terraces set back in the hill, with steps and such leading from one to the next. I'm not sure how the "escarators" (their spelling) work into the scheme.
I agree with Filver on the basement space - not only that, but it looks like the entire learning zone is stuffed in a basement, and the swedish institute for children's books seems to be in a sub-basement.
I might be able to like the scheme better if it had less of the important program in windowless basements.
I'm still not sure what to think of the notes. That version of the photo was posted on the 29th, the earlier version was much lower resolution and impossible to read. I'm just curious if they will be in any way enlightening when all is revealed.
0184-skirt=SANAA?...seriously?!...am sure they would laugh about this one :D ...for me it's at most a wannabe copycat...sure the model looks a bit alike (although it apparently got lazy copying the so-recognizable-human-scales...check http://www.designboom.com/contemporary/sanaa.html)
i think this project is as weak as 0178-isbn...depending too much on one ridiculous feature...the HUGE glass roof...that will sadly (or hopefully) never look like the model...not bold...but really naive...
sigh...i had the chance visiting some SANAA buildings and even see original boards of them...forget it... not them...i don't think there's any stars around...actually definitely none...
the finalists have been called...the finalists have been called...i am gonna count to 3 and we are all gonna wake up...1.2.3...shit! it worked! :D
on the top from left to right i could identify those... (it's really time to let go...whatever :D)
0570 - encounter in space . red
0952 - triad. yellow
0813 - 123456. yellow
1164 - halo none
guess 1
red is hot
yellow is doubt
none is crap
...green is go? :D
guess 2
as mentionned filver. categories (yello=kept 3 annexes...red=kept 2? ...) less sure of this one though...couldn't identify the one next to 0570...
definitely not the winners.
that was a pure waste of time...until the next one :D
Just looking at skirt again - zoo was asking if the glass roof would be ok in Sweden. As far as sunlight goes, I bet it would be pretty cool - though it might need some fritting or the like to reduce glare (even in Sweden). The big problem for me is structural - think of the snow load on that thing, and what you need to hold it up, and you'll start to think of that glass roof a lot differently. Also, the thermal loss would probably outpace solar gain up in sweden. The best bet for it would be a formed tension net (jorg Schlaich does these well I think, also see Gerkan und Marg's work), though that would need some significant heft at the perimeter to take up the forces.
Skirt...real good imitation of SANAA up to the level of the modelled tables and seats.
Who's know really but its an interesting design idea. Things like glass roofs and heating systems are not exactly conceptual show stoppers. I can imagine what good designers can change and do along the proces of a second stage and even beyond the second stage and still keep the look and feel of the original design.
I don't think the organisers are looking for a design to built but for a designer of masterclass who shows vision and intelligence with the submission as the first attempt to give a convincing direction. That leaves a lot of room for error at this stage and so it should.
Someone ask to take a look to 256 basket. I´ve just saw it. Interesting proyect.
And about Skirt...i really don´t think it is a SANAA proyect. They are always more delicate.
but man they will NOT keep the annexes... i cannot believe the town will spend so much money on a project that turns around UNINTERESTING buildings... The section on the skirt plans is nice, but just seeing the existing facade just ruins it...Just because Asplund looked / worked on a building does not mean it has to be kept for the future...the masterpiece that needs to be kept is the rotonda and the cube, not the three blades that prevent good flows and work for the library..
Maybe i'm wrong, but i'm just beeing pragmatic...tabula rasa is not today's trend, but sometimes building from new, is better than patching wounds.
i just don't seem to find the energy to comment on basket...somehow i don't think these kind of plans make it to the second stage.
the annexes will play a role in second stage of course. you can not ignore 500 plans that keep the annexes and insult many Stockholmers and Swedish in general to exclude plans just because the annexes where still there to see. I do agree the only reason to keep the annexes is for sentimental reasons, not for they great exposure.
Anyone with a recent book on SANAA can have a look at the chairs and tables they use in there models, the same can be seen in skirt. does not make a solid proof but still. skirt could be a SANAA submission since it does have their signature all over it as a design, I think its a good design. They reorganised the bookstorage closer to the loading platform, not a bad move but the space underneath the rotunda is not worth it. Thats why I think they haven't been in Stockholm. Also the entrance is a bit weird once you have walked around that area. The connection to the park also is lacking, really strange for those who have attended the briefing in Stockholm. Well, hope they made it to the second round. I like their low profile models instead of the photorealistic computergraphics. I like to think you can still succeed without all the 3D modeling power and render engines generating high ress full colour wow effects.
I think I saw SANAA has an exhibit in Stockholm later this year..
Filver,
I agree that the annexes might have a sentimental role... but that role is overthought by too many... the sentiment just comes from the fact that those buildings "always" have been where they are, not because there is a special history between them and stockholmians...
Just because I pass by a building every day and use that part of the library once in a while doesn't qualify as a justification to keep a building or does it? How shall cities go forward if anything that i'm used to see or use has to be kept for sentimental purpose!
Why would it be an insult if none of the 5 projects do not keep the annexes? If those projects are thought as better solutions as those that kept the annexes it would just be right no? On the opposite, if projects with annexes are way better, then having 5 of them succeed wouldn't make me cry ( i did not keep them) if they were better answers.
What will be interesting is not the projects themselves, but the reasons why they were chosen against others...this I cant wait to read!
I really admire the level of effort by everyone.
For about half an hour I stopped critiquing and just reviewed the amount of work and effort that went into creating these boards. Amazing !
It proves the point we always make: You got to love it to be an architect
Someone posting to the official discussion forum on the competition website linked to this Archinect thread and refered to SkraldSnak's announcement that he/she had been notified that their entry had won. Now that posting (and the link) has been removed from the competition website . . .
i would like to add some projects that are very intresting:
-cut (the only proyect that keep the anexes and still a good project)
-infinite loop
-351 strut ( anyone really look at this entry? it is not a joke i think)
Comments on this thread have been thought-provoking. I wish that something like this had been up and running while the first stage was under way. Great way to bounce ideas around.
Maybe a new kind of "smart" competition could be based on this format. You post your concepts and ideas, then comment and discuss, work to develop and share ideas and debate different approaches. The jury could also participate.
There's really no reason to continue the old style of competition--issuing a brief and waiting for all the hit or miss submissions.
strut was pretty cool - I saw it as a utopian sort of project, or maybe a great bond villain hideout (which i think are not far from each other conceptually). likewise with basket. in basket, i was a little concerned about the plaza space - it looked a bit bare.
free library, great plan in case nobody ever thought of converting the commercial building.
The organisers spoke about this option at the briefing in Stockholm but sadly had to state that the owner of the commercial building was very reluctant to give up this site and building, especially with the new plans for the underground and library. Of course if you could just go to your neighbor and take his land.....in China maybe..
the fact that the link to Skraldsnak's posts was removed is a clear demonstration of censorship...but it is probably for the best...the organizers certainly don't want the results somehow to be spread on the net before the jury's official announcement on the 8th (i mean tomorrow :D)...no risk taken here...it's a matter of exclusivity...fair enough...
so here we are...on this forum...some still hoping to be in (forget it)...some asking for a last crit of their own project before nobody cares (pathetic but understandable)...and Skraldsnak probably banned from this forum and locked in some area 51... (r.i.p. amen)
if you were in the states filver, you could always try the much abused "eminent domain" and just take the land. Not for much longer I suspect, as it is often abused and makes people angry.
Just make an interesting chat about architecture, and not a mexican soap opera. Reading this coments i´ve found interesting points of view about some proyects that I´ve not discovered before, like strut or basket. Pathetic? Just read yourself.
hey Form1..really sorry...my mistake...
i meant those who don't have the guts to say: "this is my project...please talk about it (like you did. bravo)"...but say: "what a great project!...take a look at it (and may be their own...)"...a bit cheap to me...
long life to this forum and the freedom of speech...
Stockholm Library Comp. Favorites?
sorry - i'm a little predisposed to overthinking and angst.
i'm still quite bummed though.
form1, at least you got the 300th post
I don't have any relations that would disqualify me from competing, and sadly, no phone calls have been received here either... usually the word gets out somehow from one of the chosen firms. and have not heard any buzz like that yet. which is unusual. so maybe... just maybe the 8th is still THE day...
hmm....got five phonecalls unaswered last week...did you know you could sent in as many as you like ....maybe I shouldn't have...
You won't get any phone call... We have been notified by letter :-D
well, congratulations then. i hope you do good work.
did you receive letter today skraldsnak, out of curiosity ?
by letter...? I will call mom if she got anything...
well, for some reason I want to get back on the horse. Maybe its the head injury talking.
Anyone know of a good competition coming up ?
filver... Yup.... by letter....
form1... check out this one http://www.voresby.com/?lang=UK
Open planning competition in Copenhagen. The site is a former industrial area for Carlsberg...
thanks skraldsnak, but I don't think I', going to pull myself together in time for that one.
they already have 5 winners....well...that is for Copenhagen...if want you to take care of the wallpaper join them..its open for every one else too..
hey skraldsnak...was it a big letter or a small one. There are several mam can't read..
just read an article on how English architectural firms are strugling to survive in a development where offices grow larger. The thing is now to sell your smaller sized firm before you are out of business and as long as you still have clients. Can you imagine all those hopefull submissions of offices too small to get the actual project. Its mostly clients that no longer feel safe with a smaller (read 25 or less people) office. You can clearly see those sentiments in competition briefs and announced design competitions.
I don't know the situation in Sweden, I am told Swedish are more modest and more to the point as far their judgement is concerned.
the Stockholm folks gave themselves a clever enough loophole - they reserved the right to determine if the winner had the resources etc. to do the job, and if they felt they did not to team them with a bigger office.
good luck Filver - if you go to
http://www.stockholm.se/upload/Fackforvaltningar/Stadsbyggnadskontoret/Stadsbiblioteket/Jury_med_namn.jpg
you can see a tower scheme behind the jury with a sticker on it - yours maybe ?
hmm. that picture was taken at 8:09 on november 17th, 2006. I'm curious to find out if the 5 schemes tagged in the background are the 5 schemes that were chosen.
Hi all,
First Comments. Have been following discussion for quite a while.
I beleive some good proposals have yet to be discussed. I can't recall anyone having spoken about:
"skirt"
I beleive this proposal is one of the best. It is extremely bold but at the same time it integrates all the existing elements: Asplund Library+Annexes+Hill+New Library.
I am pretty sure it will make the second stage. I must also confess I am almost one hundred percent sure this proposal is from the Japanes firm SANAA, Sejima and Nishizawa. The concept about the park, which they explored in Kanazawa, and the graphics make me 100 % sure it is them.
most good proposels have been left out sofar but of course with so many plans to look at...
you might be right about SANAA. It does look like their work altough SANAA usually is much more stylish and simple. The whole design as an exterior lacks any kind of impact and the the concept its very complex to understand. I could not understand the handling of media for instance. I have a feeling the author of this plan has not been in Stockholm, I feel the space underneath the rotunda is overrated as a public space, can hardly imagine anyone do that once been there. I can not imagine this plan to win although by itself it could work if you are willing to see the quality SANAA usually achieves. As SANAA they could have done more to expose themself in their drawings and layout, maybe they did if you see their boards full scale. The pdf doesn't work for those fine lines and floorplans.
about the notes, they would never have put such a photo on the web if it was that clear. the notes could be an guide for the categories they ordered the submissions in.
Filver,
You're right. At a first glance I didn't realize it was SANAA. I didn't understand the project becuase it has no image. But if you analize it carefully the project is extremely simple. It is a simple roof, or surface, that unites all the exisitng elements. In this sense it is one simple move that resolves the entire project; one that becomes an extremely bold statement. They have a proposal for Rome that is similar in the sense that they kept existing buildings and designed their project in the interstitial spaces. It is that kind of project that does not have a clear image but experientially is quite dramatic.
What I don't understand is the glass roof. I come from far, actaully where I live there is alot of sun. Would this work in Stockholm? or this would be a part of the project that would need quite a bit of investigation if it were to win.
By the way, the drawings do expose their style completely. Take a look at the furniture. This is trademark Sejima...
In terms of the rotunda, I don't understand what you mean. According to the diagrams, this space is to be dedicated to the subject areas...
as far as Skirt goes, I get a bit suspicious when I see a translucent bubble without any structure or anything of the like. That being said, I guess I understand the terraces set back in the hill, with steps and such leading from one to the next. I'm not sure how the "escarators" (their spelling) work into the scheme.
I agree with Filver on the basement space - not only that, but it looks like the entire learning zone is stuffed in a basement, and the swedish institute for children's books seems to be in a sub-basement.
I might be able to like the scheme better if it had less of the important program in windowless basements.
I'm still not sure what to think of the notes. That version of the photo was posted on the 29th, the earlier version was much lower resolution and impossible to read. I'm just curious if they will be in any way enlightening when all is revealed.
Yes seems like SANAA...the work is quite similar to De Kunstlinie’
Theatre and Cultural Centre Almere, The Netherlands..all stuffed plan
0184-skirt=SANAA?...seriously?!...am sure they would laugh about this one :D ...for me it's at most a wannabe copycat...sure the model looks a bit alike (although it apparently got lazy copying the so-recognizable-human-scales...check http://www.designboom.com/contemporary/sanaa.html)
i think this project is as weak as 0178-isbn...depending too much on one ridiculous feature...the HUGE glass roof...that will sadly (or hopefully) never look like the model...not bold...but really naive...
sigh...i had the chance visiting some SANAA buildings and even see original boards of them...forget it... not them...i don't think there's any stars around...actually definitely none...
the finalists have been called...the finalists have been called...i am gonna count to 3 and we are all gonna wake up...1.2.3...shit! it worked! :D
also...about the jury pix...
on the top from left to right i could identify those... (it's really time to let go...whatever :D)
0570 - encounter in space . red
0952 - triad. yellow
0813 - 123456. yellow
1164 - halo none
guess 1
red is hot
yellow is doubt
none is crap
...green is go? :D
guess 2
as mentionned filver. categories (yello=kept 3 annexes...red=kept 2? ...) less sure of this one though...couldn't identify the one next to 0570...
definitely not the winners.
that was a pure waste of time...until the next one :D
lol - fine work !
Just looking at skirt again - zoo was asking if the glass roof would be ok in Sweden. As far as sunlight goes, I bet it would be pretty cool - though it might need some fritting or the like to reduce glare (even in Sweden). The big problem for me is structural - think of the snow load on that thing, and what you need to hold it up, and you'll start to think of that glass roof a lot differently. Also, the thermal loss would probably outpace solar gain up in sweden. The best bet for it would be a formed tension net (jorg Schlaich does these well I think, also see Gerkan und Marg's work), though that would need some significant heft at the perimeter to take up the forces.
and what about 256 + basket? is one of the best
Skirt...real good imitation of SANAA up to the level of the modelled tables and seats.
Who's know really but its an interesting design idea. Things like glass roofs and heating systems are not exactly conceptual show stoppers. I can imagine what good designers can change and do along the proces of a second stage and even beyond the second stage and still keep the look and feel of the original design.
I don't think the organisers are looking for a design to built but for a designer of masterclass who shows vision and intelligence with the submission as the first attempt to give a convincing direction. That leaves a lot of room for error at this stage and so it should.
Someone ask to take a look to 256 basket. I´ve just saw it. Interesting proyect.
And about Skirt...i really don´t think it is a SANAA proyect. They are always more delicate.
wow
skirt: good render, interesting views..
but man they will NOT keep the annexes... i cannot believe the town will spend so much money on a project that turns around UNINTERESTING buildings... The section on the skirt plans is nice, but just seeing the existing facade just ruins it...Just because Asplund looked / worked on a building does not mean it has to be kept for the future...the masterpiece that needs to be kept is the rotonda and the cube, not the three blades that prevent good flows and work for the library..
Maybe i'm wrong, but i'm just beeing pragmatic...tabula rasa is not today's trend, but sometimes building from new, is better than patching wounds.
N
(impatient :)
i like basket too...
its in my top 20 :)
N.
i just don't seem to find the energy to comment on basket...somehow i don't think these kind of plans make it to the second stage.
the annexes will play a role in second stage of course. you can not ignore 500 plans that keep the annexes and insult many Stockholmers and Swedish in general to exclude plans just because the annexes where still there to see. I do agree the only reason to keep the annexes is for sentimental reasons, not for they great exposure.
Anyone with a recent book on SANAA can have a look at the chairs and tables they use in there models, the same can be seen in skirt. does not make a solid proof but still. skirt could be a SANAA submission since it does have their signature all over it as a design, I think its a good design. They reorganised the bookstorage closer to the loading platform, not a bad move but the space underneath the rotunda is not worth it. Thats why I think they haven't been in Stockholm. Also the entrance is a bit weird once you have walked around that area. The connection to the park also is lacking, really strange for those who have attended the briefing in Stockholm. Well, hope they made it to the second round. I like their low profile models instead of the photorealistic computergraphics. I like to think you can still succeed without all the 3D modeling power and render engines generating high ress full colour wow effects.
I think I saw SANAA has an exhibit in Stockholm later this year..
Filver,
I agree that the annexes might have a sentimental role... but that role is overthought by too many... the sentiment just comes from the fact that those buildings "always" have been where they are, not because there is a special history between them and stockholmians...
Just because I pass by a building every day and use that part of the library once in a while doesn't qualify as a justification to keep a building or does it? How shall cities go forward if anything that i'm used to see or use has to be kept for sentimental purpose!
Why would it be an insult if none of the 5 projects do not keep the annexes? If those projects are thought as better solutions as those that kept the annexes it would just be right no? On the opposite, if projects with annexes are way better, then having 5 of them succeed wouldn't make me cry ( i did not keep them) if they were better answers.
What will be interesting is not the projects themselves, but the reasons why they were chosen against others...this I cant wait to read!
N.
I really admire the level of effort by everyone.
For about half an hour I stopped critiquing and just reviewed the amount of work and effort that went into creating these boards. Amazing !
It proves the point we always make: You got to love it to be an architect
it´s hour of betting, only 2 days left. 5 finalists and 10 or 20 entries of great merit. make their lists!
Someone posting to the official discussion forum on the competition website linked to this Archinect thread and refered to SkraldSnak's announcement that he/she had been notified that their entry had won. Now that posting (and the link) has been removed from the competition website . . .
my shortened list in no order..( my project not in it but should ;)
0586 - tillsamans
055 - origami
0256 - basket
0358 - yellow
0412 - aaib
0736 - R-14
0808 - kameleont
0812 - silent hill
0833 - cloud deck
0982 - stockholm garden library
1004 - zig zag
N.
i would like to add some projects that are very intresting:
-cut (the only proyect that keep the anexes and still a good project)
-infinite loop
-351 strut ( anyone really look at this entry? it is not a joke i think)
to be frank: i love strut! need guts to give out such a render!
cut is interesting...but there was more projects keeping annexes and still interesting :)
N
I thought skarlsnak was a fake -- trying to toy with us ...
Hold out till the 8th!!! there may still be a chance!
dang it Omen, I had just gotten to the point where I wasn't having chest pains.
yer killin me here.
Comments on this thread have been thought-provoking. I wish that something like this had been up and running while the first stage was under way. Great way to bounce ideas around.
Maybe a new kind of "smart" competition could be based on this format. You post your concepts and ideas, then comment and discuss, work to develop and share ideas and debate different approaches. The jury could also participate.
There's really no reason to continue the old style of competition--issuing a brief and waiting for all the hit or miss submissions.
strut was pretty cool - I saw it as a utopian sort of project, or maybe a great bond villain hideout (which i think are not far from each other conceptually). likewise with basket. in basket, i was a little concerned about the plaza space - it looked a bit bare.
Free Library. I found this, and, well, I can't believe it!
http://www.arkitekt.se/s25578/f3054?skip25556=400
free library, great plan in case nobody ever thought of converting the commercial building.
The organisers spoke about this option at the briefing in Stockholm but sadly had to state that the owner of the commercial building was very reluctant to give up this site and building, especially with the new plans for the underground and library. Of course if you could just go to your neighbor and take his land.....in China maybe..
about the results and "the letter case"...
the fact that the link to Skraldsnak's posts was removed is a clear demonstration of censorship...but it is probably for the best...the organizers certainly don't want the results somehow to be spread on the net before the jury's official announcement on the 8th (i mean tomorrow :D)...no risk taken here...it's a matter of exclusivity...fair enough...
so here we are...on this forum...some still hoping to be in (forget it)...some asking for a last crit of their own project before nobody cares (pathetic but understandable)...and Skraldsnak probably banned from this forum and locked in some area 51... (r.i.p. amen)
that's a little uncalled for to call people pathetic for wanting a critique of their work. If the forum isn't for that, then what's it for ?
come on, don´t be shy, who are the 5 and who the entries with merit? obviously only the jury knows that, but after a few month all have a favorite one
if you were in the states filver, you could always try the much abused "eminent domain" and just take the land. Not for much longer I suspect, as it is often abused and makes people angry.
Just make an interesting chat about architecture, and not a mexican soap opera. Reading this coments i´ve found interesting points of view about some proyects that I´ve not discovered before, like strut or basket. Pathetic? Just read yourself.
hey Form1..really sorry...my mistake...
i meant those who don't have the guts to say: "this is my project...please talk about it (like you did. bravo)"...but say: "what a great project!...take a look at it (and may be their own...)"...a bit cheap to me...
long life to this forum and the freedom of speech...
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