My boss sent an email to everyone to say farewell to a tempt sectary who is leaving. They even get a cake to say goodbye to her. She is sweet. At meantime, he made no gesture to a couple of architects who are leaving too, include me. And he didn't mention anything before to the others who left who worked there two years or long. Is he out of his mind? Is he too old to think clearly? Can a sectary contribute more to the firm than an architect or intern who work so hard in the firm. Don't they deserve some type of gesture to thank them for the work they did? I remember at a firm I worked for before, an older guy was laid off after working there for 6-8 years. No one mentioned anything, no farewell lunch, or cake. How sad! Think about all the time he spent there, all the contribution he made. Should the owner at least express their sorrow and thank him for the service he did? At meantime, they did a lunch for a younger guy from Canada who just worked there for a couple of years and moved back to Vancouver. Are they all out of their mind? Don't we all know a better more logical way to say good bye to employees or coworkers? These just don't make sense to me. What is your thought?
Ideally, if the firm does any sort of farewell thing for anyone then they should do it for everyone (at least anyone who isn't being fired for cause and escorted directly to the door.)
Yes, it shows poor judgement on the part of the principal to favor the temp secretary over longtime employees.
But: this just isn't worth worrying about. In the case of your own departure just don't take it personally! It's just not worth the stress and raised blood pressure to get all offended. It's not your problem, it's theirs.
In the case of other employees who are leaving soon: why don't you take it upon yourself to take up a collection for a cake or whatever and do a collective party for all of you who are leaving soon? Or maybe suggest everyone going out for lunch or drinks or whatever (make it clear that the office isn't paying for it and it's pay your own way.) That way all you guys who are leaving and all your friends can go celebrate, and your boss and anyone else who wants to make some kind of statement by not going can feel that they've effectively snubbed you - and meanwhile you get to have your party without those morons!
It does smell of an affair or infatuation with the temp.
It reminds me of a sitcom I saw once where people in a law firm would always get a card, or a cake, or a full omelette bar when they left, depending on how much the firm liked them. The character was hoping for "omelette man" at his departure, but his secretary found out he was probably getting the card, because he'd done something to lose the firm millions and "the only way he's getting omelette man is if he pays for it himself." So he did.
The only thing I can think of is whether those who get cakes, etc. are leaving because of extenuating circumstances (their temp time is over, their visa is up, etc.), while those who don't are people who quit or were fired, maybe? They may feel bitter towards you if you quit, and if you're fired you don't deserve it, but those few people who have to leave for other reasons get a celebration? Not that that makes TONS of sense, but I'm trying to figure it out.
I don't actually believe he had an an affair with the temp, not physically. It just show the poor judgement of a lot of bosses.
Aluminate, thanks for your advice. I'm having lunch with the other girl who is leaving too. I may ask another boss to join, but maybe not the rest of the office. It's not about the gathering, it's about how unfairly the other boss was treating people. Like my husband said maybe he is too lonely. I should put all these behind me, I'm glad I'm leaving!
look at from the bosses perspective...a secretary/personal assistant/whatever is probably much more important/valuable to him and his daily chores/duties/responsibilities than any draftsperson or architect in the office might be.
in my early days, i spent nearly a year working as an office assistant in a firm and had much more direct contact with the principles than i've ever had in any position since then. it sounds silly, but someone who can deftly answer the telephone can save a boss multiple headaches in any given day. it's really about a comfort level and, depending on what was on his agenda that week, a boss that's relying on a temp secretary might literally be sweating bullets at the very thought of what could go wrong. consequently if this temp managed to handle things well (maybe even better than the regular secretary) then i could certainly understand his gratitude.
Architectural firms have a very high probability to fire/layoff people during the Christmas holidays, the day before a vacation, or as soon as the pregnancy starts showing. Protocol is to wait until expensive gifts or holiday packages are purchased before handing over the pink slip.
Rationalist, I think that was their mind set too. But when you step back, you realized that doesn't make any sense.
Puddles, you helped to see it in a different perspetive. I think you are quite right on that.
Queen of England, you hit the point. I see company laid of people right before Thanks giving or Christmas, or other major holiday, it is so insensitive. No wonder people leave when they get better oppotunity, loyalty is not valued in this profession. But I think layout preganant people is illegal, isn't it?
Firms only have to give maternity leave and save the person's job if the firm has 50 or more people. Some states have slightly stricter laws.
Besides: it's not illegal to layoff pregnant people! It's just illegal to lay them off BECAUSE they're pregnant, or to replace them with another employee while they're on maternity leave and not let them have their job back.
If the firm can come up with a good reason to layoff the person before their leave starts then unfortunately they can get away with that.
Maternity leave is an ideal time to hit the pavement and find a new job (or decide to be a full time mom), to an employer maternity leave is a roll of the dice - will they be back? Letting them go solves that staffing headache.
Reason, I agree that when you look at the broader picture the comparisons don't add up. This probably means it's not a policy, but a decision that comes down to someone basically sitting there saying, "F them! they're quitting, let their NEW office buy them cake!" or "I just want them out of here as fast as possible", or the rare "wow, that sucks that they have to go." When the decision making eliminates that many people, they just shouldn't do it for anyone.
at any office i have ever worked at, i make sure i am very friendly and courteous to the secretary and office manager. those people can either make your life hell or not. i consistently witness officemates abuse these people. an abuse that was always unwarranted. that said, i agree with aluminate that all people should be treated equally. i guess that not only goes for when people leave, but also for while they are there.
I don't think you should spend any more time worrying about this. Nobody is going to disagree with you that it's unfair (and your boss is an idiot). But chalk it up to "life's not fair" and "not everyone is a nice person."
Buy yourself some cake. Share it with people you like.
You've gotten a lot of advice in your other threads about leaving this job and starting a new one. Put your mind into the new job now and take it out of this job. Resolve not to let anything that might happen in your last days here to bother you. Be happy, be nice to everyone as you leave this old job - even those who aren't nice to you. Make everything go smoothly to the best of your abilities. Make sure whatever you're working on gets finished or help transition it to someone else. Send a nice email to everyone before you leave, telling them you learned a lot and you'll miss them all. Be the bigger person.
just to further illustrate my point about the value that wealthy and/or powerful people (i.e., bosses) place on top quality, bend-over-backwards service, consider that most well-trained butlers/personal assistants have salaries over six figures and some of the top ones are in the seven figure range. not that i'd ever do it, but if money is really your thing, forget architecture, swallow your pride and learn how to pour tea the way that your boss likes it
as for fairness in the work place, fuck it...when your name is on the door and you're signing the paychecks, then feel free to do whatever you feel is fair. this is, and always has been, a competitive business
i'm using my drafting box as a foot rest right now...i wonder what's in that thing?
i have $300 marker set that i havent used in about 7 years......hmmm
i was let go from a firm at 2pm on a friday.... i was gonna stay to finish up the dwg that i was working on but they sort of forced me out after they told me..... i asked if i could finish the dwg since the architect needed it....they said it was time for me to go NOW...wtf...... so i did a quick erase/all and then saved.......... azzmunchies.....
i was let go of my construction job due to lack of work to keep 4 guys busy and since i recently had knee surgury, i was limited in what i could do....but when the head man told me that work is slow and that i was to be let go, he gave me my last check with a few extra bucks on top of it........ he was a cool boss also.... the clients were also cool......
puddles i agree - in our profesion its the name on the door. personal assistants are more criticle to the daily functioning of the principle(s) than a draftsman or staff architect. Like a carpenter or plumber on a big project, your job unfortunatley is that of production unit. This is not bad, this is how you profit- labor mark up. So be this a reminder to why its criticle to become licensed. At least licensed gives you chance to become associate or partner status at most places or open your own doors. And if I may, lobby your local AIA to allow a relaxation in the education requirements for licensure, which is ensuring that our 25-35 age group will be the smallest batch of architects in the last 50 years. Nothing against MA's but that is personal fullfillment not directly related to licensure.
Hmm... I don't think your employer owes you anything. But given that view of the labor contract, the employee does not owe the employer anything either...
There is some kindof distance in a employee / employer contract. But I think what's not in the contract is the "human" component... But it is that component, on the employee side and on the employer side which is extremely valuable to firm morale, to productivity and to work, and while its not something that you can point at and say "that secretary managed that project well, made a good sell and made the office alot of money'... I'm not sure but I think perhaps in the long run, when you think of an office moving forward and producing, it is ultimately about the ongoing social and cultural management of a workplace... A happy workplace is a productive workplace...
Maybe she got the cake because of the personal connection, not the contractual one.
237: that Friday afternoon dismissal, followed by a request to get your stuff and get out immediately, is textbook recommended procedure for HR people. The whole point of it is to prevent exactly what you did. But your firm messed up by leaving out a few steps: they're advised to have a tech person lock you out of your computer while you're in an office being dismissed, and they're also supposed to have one or two staff people ready to escort you to your desk, watch or help you pack, and escort you to the door. If you really erased files I'm sure they got the procedure right on the next guy...
Is he out of his mind?
My boss sent an email to everyone to say farewell to a tempt sectary who is leaving. They even get a cake to say goodbye to her. She is sweet. At meantime, he made no gesture to a couple of architects who are leaving too, include me. And he didn't mention anything before to the others who left who worked there two years or long. Is he out of his mind? Is he too old to think clearly? Can a sectary contribute more to the firm than an architect or intern who work so hard in the firm. Don't they deserve some type of gesture to thank them for the work they did? I remember at a firm I worked for before, an older guy was laid off after working there for 6-8 years. No one mentioned anything, no farewell lunch, or cake. How sad! Think about all the time he spent there, all the contribution he made. Should the owner at least express their sorrow and thank him for the service he did? At meantime, they did a lunch for a younger guy from Canada who just worked there for a couple of years and moved back to Vancouver. Are they all out of their mind? Don't we all know a better more logical way to say good bye to employees or coworkers? These just don't make sense to me. What is your thought?
Ideally, if the firm does any sort of farewell thing for anyone then they should do it for everyone (at least anyone who isn't being fired for cause and escorted directly to the door.)
Yes, it shows poor judgement on the part of the principal to favor the temp secretary over longtime employees.
But: this just isn't worth worrying about. In the case of your own departure just don't take it personally! It's just not worth the stress and raised blood pressure to get all offended. It's not your problem, it's theirs.
In the case of other employees who are leaving soon: why don't you take it upon yourself to take up a collection for a cake or whatever and do a collective party for all of you who are leaving soon? Or maybe suggest everyone going out for lunch or drinks or whatever (make it clear that the office isn't paying for it and it's pay your own way.) That way all you guys who are leaving and all your friends can go celebrate, and your boss and anyone else who wants to make some kind of statement by not going can feel that they've effectively snubbed you - and meanwhile you get to have your party without those morons!
Reason - Obviously your boss was/is having an affair with the temp!
It does smell of an affair or infatuation with the temp.
It reminds me of a sitcom I saw once where people in a law firm would always get a card, or a cake, or a full omelette bar when they left, depending on how much the firm liked them. The character was hoping for "omelette man" at his departure, but his secretary found out he was probably getting the card, because he'd done something to lose the firm millions and "the only way he's getting omelette man is if he pays for it himself." So he did.
The only thing I can think of is whether those who get cakes, etc. are leaving because of extenuating circumstances (their temp time is over, their visa is up, etc.), while those who don't are people who quit or were fired, maybe? They may feel bitter towards you if you quit, and if you're fired you don't deserve it, but those few people who have to leave for other reasons get a celebration? Not that that makes TONS of sense, but I'm trying to figure it out.
I don't actually believe he had an an affair with the temp, not physically. It just show the poor judgement of a lot of bosses.
Aluminate, thanks for your advice. I'm having lunch with the other girl who is leaving too. I may ask another boss to join, but maybe not the rest of the office. It's not about the gathering, it's about how unfairly the other boss was treating people. Like my husband said maybe he is too lonely. I should put all these behind me, I'm glad I'm leaving!
look at from the bosses perspective...a secretary/personal assistant/whatever is probably much more important/valuable to him and his daily chores/duties/responsibilities than any draftsperson or architect in the office might be.
in my early days, i spent nearly a year working as an office assistant in a firm and had much more direct contact with the principles than i've ever had in any position since then. it sounds silly, but someone who can deftly answer the telephone can save a boss multiple headaches in any given day. it's really about a comfort level and, depending on what was on his agenda that week, a boss that's relying on a temp secretary might literally be sweating bullets at the very thought of what could go wrong. consequently if this temp managed to handle things well (maybe even better than the regular secretary) then i could certainly understand his gratitude.
Architectural firms have a very high probability to fire/layoff people during the Christmas holidays, the day before a vacation, or as soon as the pregnancy starts showing. Protocol is to wait until expensive gifts or holiday packages are purchased before handing over the pink slip.
The farewell FU is a subtle art.
Rationalist, I think that was their mind set too. But when you step back, you realized that doesn't make any sense.
Puddles, you helped to see it in a different perspetive. I think you are quite right on that.
Queen of England, you hit the point. I see company laid of people right before Thanks giving or Christmas, or other major holiday, it is so insensitive. No wonder people leave when they get better oppotunity, loyalty is not valued in this profession. But I think layout preganant people is illegal, isn't it?
Firms only have to give maternity leave and save the person's job if the firm has 50 or more people. Some states have slightly stricter laws.
Besides: it's not illegal to layoff pregnant people! It's just illegal to lay them off BECAUSE they're pregnant, or to replace them with another employee while they're on maternity leave and not let them have their job back.
If the firm can come up with a good reason to layoff the person before their leave starts then unfortunately they can get away with that.
Maternity leave is an ideal time to hit the pavement and find a new job (or decide to be a full time mom), to an employer maternity leave is a roll of the dice - will they be back? Letting them go solves that staffing headache.
Reason, I agree that when you look at the broader picture the comparisons don't add up. This probably means it's not a policy, but a decision that comes down to someone basically sitting there saying, "F them! they're quitting, let their NEW office buy them cake!" or "I just want them out of here as fast as possible", or the rare "wow, that sucks that they have to go." When the decision making eliminates that many people, they just shouldn't do it for anyone.
well, here's a spicy theory on what probably happened based on my experience: he had hot, inappropriate sexual relations with said employee.
at any office i have ever worked at, i make sure i am very friendly and courteous to the secretary and office manager. those people can either make your life hell or not. i consistently witness officemates abuse these people. an abuse that was always unwarranted. that said, i agree with aluminate that all people should be treated equally. i guess that not only goes for when people leave, but also for while they are there.
I don't think you should spend any more time worrying about this. Nobody is going to disagree with you that it's unfair (and your boss is an idiot). But chalk it up to "life's not fair" and "not everyone is a nice person."
Buy yourself some cake. Share it with people you like.
You've gotten a lot of advice in your other threads about leaving this job and starting a new one. Put your mind into the new job now and take it out of this job. Resolve not to let anything that might happen in your last days here to bother you. Be happy, be nice to everyone as you leave this old job - even those who aren't nice to you. Make everything go smoothly to the best of your abilities. Make sure whatever you're working on gets finished or help transition it to someone else. Send a nice email to everyone before you leave, telling them you learned a lot and you'll miss them all. Be the bigger person.
its a mistake to expect anything from your employer...except maybe a pink slip
Reason, all you can do at this point is upper-deck the office toilet on your last day.
no worries, all gensler toilets are pre-upper-decked to make sure employees don't waste productivity doing it.
I wish I still had a use for my drafting box. And my rapidographs, for that matter. Nice save nonetheless, OldFogey.
just to further illustrate my point about the value that wealthy and/or powerful people (i.e., bosses) place on top quality, bend-over-backwards service, consider that most well-trained butlers/personal assistants have salaries over six figures and some of the top ones are in the seven figure range. not that i'd ever do it, but if money is really your thing, forget architecture, swallow your pride and learn how to pour tea the way that your boss likes it
as for fairness in the work place, fuck it...when your name is on the door and you're signing the paychecks, then feel free to do whatever you feel is fair. this is, and always has been, a competitive business
i'm using my drafting box as a foot rest right now...i wonder what's in that thing?
i have $300 marker set that i havent used in about 7 years......hmmm
i was let go from a firm at 2pm on a friday.... i was gonna stay to finish up the dwg that i was working on but they sort of forced me out after they told me..... i asked if i could finish the dwg since the architect needed it....they said it was time for me to go NOW...wtf...... so i did a quick erase/all and then saved.......... azzmunchies.....
i was let go of my construction job due to lack of work to keep 4 guys busy and since i recently had knee surgury, i was limited in what i could do....but when the head man told me that work is slow and that i was to be let go, he gave me my last check with a few extra bucks on top of it........ he was a cool boss also.... the clients were also cool......
forget cake, get some ice cream
2:37am
Reason....You didn't have an affair with the Boss did you and break it off? Just kidding!
One way of not gettin a party is by pissing off your loverboss!!
puddles i agree - in our profesion its the name on the door. personal assistants are more criticle to the daily functioning of the principle(s) than a draftsman or staff architect. Like a carpenter or plumber on a big project, your job unfortunatley is that of production unit. This is not bad, this is how you profit- labor mark up. So be this a reminder to why its criticle to become licensed. At least licensed gives you chance to become associate or partner status at most places or open your own doors. And if I may, lobby your local AIA to allow a relaxation in the education requirements for licensure, which is ensuring that our 25-35 age group will be the smallest batch of architects in the last 50 years. Nothing against MA's but that is personal fullfillment not directly related to licensure.
Hmm... I don't think your employer owes you anything. But given that view of the labor contract, the employee does not owe the employer anything either...
There is some kindof distance in a employee / employer contract. But I think what's not in the contract is the "human" component... But it is that component, on the employee side and on the employer side which is extremely valuable to firm morale, to productivity and to work, and while its not something that you can point at and say "that secretary managed that project well, made a good sell and made the office alot of money'... I'm not sure but I think perhaps in the long run, when you think of an office moving forward and producing, it is ultimately about the ongoing social and cultural management of a workplace... A happy workplace is a productive workplace...
Maybe she got the cake because of the personal connection, not the contractual one.
not to be an a-hole, but im sure you meant 'secretary'
237: that Friday afternoon dismissal, followed by a request to get your stuff and get out immediately, is textbook recommended procedure for HR people. The whole point of it is to prevent exactly what you did. But your firm messed up by leaving out a few steps: they're advised to have a tech person lock you out of your computer while you're in an office being dismissed, and they're also supposed to have one or two staff people ready to escort you to your desk, watch or help you pack, and escort you to the door. If you really erased files I'm sure they got the procedure right on the next guy...
"it's not illegal to layoff pregnant people!"
couldn't a pregnant man claim to be a protected minority?
i guess it's obvious that i'm not a lawyer.
and i've never played a nurse on tv, either
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