What do you do when you get recommended for a job and you future cliet asks to see examples of your work, but you have NO built work. This is for a 100k loft renovation in NYC. I work for a starchitect - should I show wk from the office?
I would show the work that you have done with your firm. But, I would be very truthful about what your position and role was on the project. It is really easy to exagerate this, but hold back on that temptation. The worst thing would be for you to basically say that you did everything on the project and that info get back to your boss. You may lose the client and your job.
The risk is, obviously, that the client will not want to hire you because they will be the first project for you on your own. You should be ready for that question, but if it is too much of a problem for them, no amount of talking will help.
If you learn to be scrappy about getting these type of projects, those skills will help you throughout your career. I go thru the same exact thing when we go for projects that are different than our past work. Nobody wants to be the first client because there is so much at stake financially for them. But, if you are scrappy, you will get someone to say yes and then it gets easier from there.
you can also show student work - we did that with our first job and they were actually very interested - they hired us because they wanted an interesting design, we were very enthusiastic, and also probably because our fee was low... which i think is fair if you don't have much professional experience.
depends on your experience level, going rates & your scope of work. the easiest for this type of job is probably hourly, though you'll want to give an estimate and it can be tough if you exceed that by much unless the client has really changed the scope a lot or dragged their feet. we do percentage (usually 15% not including engineering) or hourly - with a budget of 100K I would probably go hourly, telling them that it's likely the fees will add up to 8-12% of the construction cost... we charge $65/hr now, which is cheap (we know) for a licensed architect, but that is what we've decided to go with based on the market here in LA. i would say anywhere from $30-75/hr might work - you'll have to ask around to see what other people charge in nyc. It all depends on how detailed it's going to get, how quickly they are at making decisions, how much work you'll need to do for the permits and overseeing construction. if you think it's going to be quite detailed and time consuming, then percentage may work better (we always seem to make more money on percentage, or at least it gives us a bigger window to allocate more time to the job). beware though, if you decide to go with percentage and you tell the client the design will cost 100K, but they get bids for 150 (could easily happen), they may bitch and not want to pay the percentage on 150K... check out the AIA contract for small projects as well as others people have posted here for letter form contracts - you want to make sure it's clear what the compensation is and that you are not responsible for final construction cost - you can only provide an estimate (if even that)
Just to give you a perspective from one employers point of view.
I have suspected a couple of people in my office have done/are doing freelance work. It does kind of make me uneasy, but I did it when I was an employee, so I don't make it an issue.
But, if even one phone call/fax/email, etc. came into my office pertaining to an employees freelance job, I would have to fire them immediately. It is VERY serious, becuase if there was any problem on the freelance job that ended in some sort of lawsuit and my office could be tied to it in any way, I could be held responsible for a project I had nothing to do with.
This is what makes freelance work so tough. You can't just take off to the site to solve some unanticipated problem. You can't take dozens of phone calls from the GC during work hours. Although it was a necessary thing for me to do to start my own firm, it was very stressful.
Also speaking as an employer, I ask that my employees inform me before hand if they are going to do freelance work. They need to either
a) Copy me on a letter that they send to their client, saying clearly that they are working independently of the firm, and do not have professional liability insurance, etc.
b) they run the project thru the firm, are covered by our insurance, our office sends the bills, they have a senior architect do a check set on the drawings and give them advice during design, and they can answer questions during office hours, just on their own time (stay 1 hour later if you yak with the gc for an hour, for example. ) They pay 1% of their fee for this.
Sometimes we get small jobs we can't find time for in the office, and we give these to interested younger staff to do freelance. They are not the pick of the crop projects, but they do give them a chance to do their own thing.
I always state clearly in my proposal letter that I'm working on the project freelance. I describe what hours I'm available to discuss their project (i.e. not while I'm shackled to the desk where my paycheck comes from.) I found it best to be straightforward and not pretend that I would be providing the same level of service that I would if their project was part of my day job. If the GC needs some feedback its either early AM, after office hours, or Saturday.
This has worked so far, but the projects have generally been ones where I have not been threatened by the GC running with it and messing things up. I've been lucky enough to work with some great contractors.
Sep 7, 06 10:33 am ·
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1st freelance job
What do you do when you get recommended for a job and you future cliet asks to see examples of your work, but you have NO built work. This is for a 100k loft renovation in NYC. I work for a starchitect - should I show wk from the office?
I would show the work that you have done with your firm. But, I would be very truthful about what your position and role was on the project. It is really easy to exagerate this, but hold back on that temptation. The worst thing would be for you to basically say that you did everything on the project and that info get back to your boss. You may lose the client and your job.
The risk is, obviously, that the client will not want to hire you because they will be the first project for you on your own. You should be ready for that question, but if it is too much of a problem for them, no amount of talking will help.
If you learn to be scrappy about getting these type of projects, those skills will help you throughout your career. I go thru the same exact thing when we go for projects that are different than our past work. Nobody wants to be the first client because there is so much at stake financially for them. But, if you are scrappy, you will get someone to say yes and then it gets easier from there.
Good luck.
you can also show student work - we did that with our first job and they were actually very interested - they hired us because they wanted an interesting design, we were very enthusiastic, and also probably because our fee was low... which i think is fair if you don't have much professional experience.
Does the superstar architect know your stepping out on a freelance job? It can be a real no...no.... Wright pulled that stunt on Sullivan.
No, I don't think it's necessary to tell him. If it's not interferring w/ my "day" job it won't be an issue.
It will probably be an issue, but fuck him.
What would you consider a fair fee?
depends on your experience level, going rates & your scope of work. the easiest for this type of job is probably hourly, though you'll want to give an estimate and it can be tough if you exceed that by much unless the client has really changed the scope a lot or dragged their feet. we do percentage (usually 15% not including engineering) or hourly - with a budget of 100K I would probably go hourly, telling them that it's likely the fees will add up to 8-12% of the construction cost... we charge $65/hr now, which is cheap (we know) for a licensed architect, but that is what we've decided to go with based on the market here in LA. i would say anywhere from $30-75/hr might work - you'll have to ask around to see what other people charge in nyc. It all depends on how detailed it's going to get, how quickly they are at making decisions, how much work you'll need to do for the permits and overseeing construction. if you think it's going to be quite detailed and time consuming, then percentage may work better (we always seem to make more money on percentage, or at least it gives us a bigger window to allocate more time to the job). beware though, if you decide to go with percentage and you tell the client the design will cost 100K, but they get bids for 150 (could easily happen), they may bitch and not want to pay the percentage on 150K... check out the AIA contract for small projects as well as others people have posted here for letter form contracts - you want to make sure it's clear what the compensation is and that you are not responsible for final construction cost - you can only provide an estimate (if even that)
Just to give you a perspective from one employers point of view.
I have suspected a couple of people in my office have done/are doing freelance work. It does kind of make me uneasy, but I did it when I was an employee, so I don't make it an issue.
But, if even one phone call/fax/email, etc. came into my office pertaining to an employees freelance job, I would have to fire them immediately. It is VERY serious, becuase if there was any problem on the freelance job that ended in some sort of lawsuit and my office could be tied to it in any way, I could be held responsible for a project I had nothing to do with.
This is what makes freelance work so tough. You can't just take off to the site to solve some unanticipated problem. You can't take dozens of phone calls from the GC during work hours. Although it was a necessary thing for me to do to start my own firm, it was very stressful.
Good luck.
Also speaking as an employer, I ask that my employees inform me before hand if they are going to do freelance work. They need to either
a) Copy me on a letter that they send to their client, saying clearly that they are working independently of the firm, and do not have professional liability insurance, etc.
b) they run the project thru the firm, are covered by our insurance, our office sends the bills, they have a senior architect do a check set on the drawings and give them advice during design, and they can answer questions during office hours, just on their own time (stay 1 hour later if you yak with the gc for an hour, for example. ) They pay 1% of their fee for this.
Sometimes we get small jobs we can't find time for in the office, and we give these to interested younger staff to do freelance. They are not the pick of the crop projects, but they do give them a chance to do their own thing.
archie, that is awesome, wish i worked for you...
I always state clearly in my proposal letter that I'm working on the project freelance. I describe what hours I'm available to discuss their project (i.e. not while I'm shackled to the desk where my paycheck comes from.) I found it best to be straightforward and not pretend that I would be providing the same level of service that I would if their project was part of my day job. If the GC needs some feedback its either early AM, after office hours, or Saturday.
This has worked so far, but the projects have generally been ones where I have not been threatened by the GC running with it and messing things up. I've been lucky enough to work with some great contractors.
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