At least Chili has almost 70 posts and over a 7:1 comment to entry ratio. Thats way better than the people who's first post/comment is "where should I go to school". I think archinect should make a new rule where you have to have 5 comments before you can make your first post.
Oh, and on a side note, it is irritating/intimidating going through some threads with 50+ comments on them where most of them are jokes or people doing....well...what I'm doing right now, lol.
While I thank you for your help, WonderK, I find a majority of the comments in those past posts to be uninformative. Not to say that they were all garbage as I did find some relevant information. The programs I am trying to find are post-grad, intended for someone who has already graduated with an M.Arch degree, ie. a M.S. in Sustainable Design. I have so far only been able to find 2 schools who offer such a degree, Carnegie Mellon and UT Austin. I'm just curious if there is another school out there offering a program like this. Oh and WonderK, I'm sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it in my search of 8,000 comments.
This is my point about previous posts. Sometimes they are just to saturated, starting fresh is a good idea. However, often a brief search can answer questions too.
As for you search for schools goes Chili, WonderK is probably the BEST person to ask, since she's going for the exact same degree. I know she just recently visited Carenegie and loved it. Hopefully when she gets back from her business trip, she can give you a a direct opinion on what's out there.
Thanks treekiller, but I want to remain in the states, preferably in the midwest. ohmygosh, UM Minneapolis is one I haven't found yet, but I will add that to my list of choices. Carnegie Mellon is the front runner right now, because of its relative proximity to Michiganistan, but UMM offers an interesting option. Thanks all of you for your help. If anyone knows of any others, or even a school that will be implementing such a program within the next 18 months, any input would be greatly appreciated.
Dar, I forgot the M.S. Arch degree at the UofMn was sustainable design focus. Why should I know that, it's not like I got my architecture degree from them...oh wait...I did.
UofMn is very self-concious about sustainability and and green design. They have several groups there that focus on greening the school and the community, and the dean and several professors are nothing short of determined to push sustainability on their students. Not to mention Big Ten schools rock, and Minneapolis is a fantastic city.
Not to mention you get to deal with my FAVORITE student director, Anne White. She's the best faculty person I have EVER met, and almost worth being the sole reason for going to that school.
Do you think that in the near future, UofMn will implement a MS in Sustainable Design? I was looking for a program to enter after getting my M. Arch w/ sust. des. focus. Will the M.S. Arch from UofMn be redundant for the most part offering a look into sust. design but a focus on arch in general? The program I am looking for would be clearly focuses on sustainable design.
Well the MS program is like a supplement to the M.Arch program, not redundant, and it's focus is primarily Sustainable Design.
"During the past decade there has been a growing interest, throughout the world, in the practice of sustainable design in architecture. Pressing environmental, ecological, economic, and social and cultural implications of sustainable design have profoundly impacted design education, research, and practice. The Department of Architecture at the University of Minnesota has responded by offering the M.S. in Architecture Sustainable Design Track, which provides a diverse offering
of courses on sustainable design theory and practice to address issues such as energy and resource efficiency, water, waste reduction, and design, material, and technological innovations. This is the first Masters of Science graduate degree program in the U.S. which addresses the emerging theory and practice of sustainable design. The program accommodates students from varied backgrounds, including practicing design professionals, M.ARCH graduate students, and
students from other and related disciples. It prepares students to integrate sustainable design practice and research in the design professions, government agencies, research institutes, and
corporations."
If you already have an M.Arch with a sustainable focus, what is your goal of getting the MS? If you're heading into research, then a PhD is what to chase (but that is a whole other topic). Try working for a bit (beyond the CAD Monkey phase) to see how you can apply your existing skilz and brains. Then if you find that you want to become an expert on energy modeling, then more schooling makes sense...
If you get the MS and return to practice before gaining more experience, you'll be right where you left off - as a cad monkey...
Chasing after becoming LEED-AP is a little premature if you're not near being a project manager - know the green rating systems, but save your money for now.
Maybe you just need a new job... good luck.
cf- hah! that is funny - spec writing. is this the future standard of sustainable design?
Sbd:
Wow, that sounds like an exciting new area of architectural research.
This should be part of every school's curriculum.
Will the program be designed around the LEED exam? I hope so. This would be an outstanding stroke of good luck.
We must sustain!!!
Chili Davis, those posts ARE in fact, the best places to look. Sorry if you find them uninformative but the truth of the matter is, post-professional degrees in sustainable design just don't exist in this country. I'm sorry, we're not magic, we can't tell you about American programs that just don't exist.
That being said:
-Yes, I loved Carnegie Mellon, and yes, I hear that UT Austin has a program of equal stature. CMU has a 12-month and 2-year degree while UT's is 2 year.
-Other good programs (or so I hear) in relative fields include USC, the University of Oregon (top notch, but not urban), and the University of British Columbia, although that's awfully far from Michigan.
-Other schools that claim to have sustainable focuses but offer no degree in Sustainable Design are more common, such as the University of Denver.
-treekiller makes a good point in that if you already have an MSArch, the PhD maybe what you're after. Carnegie's program is geared towards professionals and my focus, and the reasoning behind trying to get my Master's, is so that I am more technically proficient and able to apply sustainable technologies in the field.
-I have no intention of being a spec writer.
UofMn stressed sustainability in the undergrad B.S. and B.A. arch classes, requiring us to take an Environment Arch course which taught passive and eco-friendly systems only. It was a wonderful course, and impressive that it was included in the undergrad curriculum as a requirment.
I think encouraging student to take the LEED is a great idea (Cincinnati does have a LEED course elective that focuses mostly on being able to take and pass the LEED test at the end of the course). But als think that LEED is just a support to the sustainable design teachings, and that it should not be the center of the curriculum.
The other thing that the Minnesota degree offers (to my knowledge) is more of a theory bases sustainable design emphasis compared to other degrees. Many other programs are more technical, where as most of all of UofMn's arch degrees are weighted more on the theory side.
here's a radical shift- instead of MS in architecture- go for a M.LA or M.S. in engineering. the M.LA will ground you in ecology, sustainable sites, soils, watersheds, environmental restoration, and the regional planning. Engineering can teach much more about systems, materials and energy efficiency and you expand your horizon and pool of potential jobs.
My own trajectory was getting a dual M.LA & M.Arch after a B.S.Arch... while I had few classes that were focused on 'sustainablity', this was a reoccuring issue in my landscape classes and often present in the architecture ones too. My current job is mostly planning, pre-design and concept design phase work- I have been able (with-in the site constraints) to maximize the green quotiant of the project under the radar. As a budding project manager with lots of client contact, being a LEED-AP is worthwhile, because I'm frequently discussing these issues.
U of C's aspiration to get their students LEED-APed is a waste of tuition dollars - by the time a new graduate reaches beyond being a CAD monkey into making project decisions and managing a project LEED will have radically changes and their knowledge will be stale.
Remember folks - project managers/designers are responsible for documenting and submitting the LEED credits, not interns... Thats what the LEED exam tests you on - how well you can coordinate and prepare the LEED submittal package. Yes, there are few design questions, but why do you need to know what ASHRAE 90.1 is if your just drawing details of a bathroom?
Ok, taking the test is a sign of your aspirations and familiarity with the topic, but there are more important professional development topics to focus on first; patience, patience....
I agree mostly with your view on LEEDs and interns. While I would love to take the test, I wasn't going to waste college credit on it (I almost signed up for the class, then decided I could take much more informative courses). I think it's great for everyone to get their cert in it, but it definetely isn't useful for interns (except they may understand building systems better, and become inspired to develop into more sustainable archtiects). In otherwords, it couldn't hurt.
no pain, no gain... it is a good prequel for the AREs/LAREs - so at that point go for it. But just don't do it for the sake of getting a set of initials after your name. It doesn't hurt, but it certainly doesn't need a graduate level course to become proficient...
PS - wait until you work for a firm that 1) is a member of USGBC for a $100 discount & 2) will pay for the exam. Don't waste your own dough on getting accredited- that means tuition too!
Chili-
I recently visited the UofMn and was thoroughly impressed with the design of their program, the students, the faculty, and the dean (who believes architecture cannot be separated from issues of sustainability and social justice). You can, in fact, just get an M.S. in Sustainable Design. They've certainly got the Minnesota "nice" down just right so I wouldn't hesitate to contact them if you are interested.
I ultimatley chose UT Austin though...argh, it was an incredibly difficult decision. I wanted a Masters program that had a strong commitment to Sustainable Design, but since I am going for my M.Arch first professional degree my requirements from a school were different from yours...
treekiller - where did you do your dual M.LA & M.Arch degrees? that is an interesting viewpoint. do you think that a masters in Landscape Architecture is as good or better than trying to do a "sustainable" major?
I have heard great things from students and grads from both CMU and UMn, is there anyone from UTA who wants to offer up an opinion of the program/faculty/dean/school in general?
F-Penn baby! I'm ivy through and through with a touch of the big 10 lingering from my undergrad days.
Dual degrees versus specialized degrees may be another thread.
Pros of dual degree (arch/'scape)- able to play at all scales from micro to macro, 1mm to 80+ miles. Connects human action to nature. Sit on both sides of professional fence. Integrate buildings into site better then either profession alone. Integrate plants with buildings. understand climate better then archs. Can detail better then 'scapers. can out civil engineers with natural systems. Only needed one architecture studio to graduate (with advanced standing). Avoids generative algorhythm/maya masterbation. Jim Corner loves ya!
cons of 2Ds- can't take too many electives with all those requirements. One or two extra years. Don't know GIS, energy modeling, all those frilly pretty plants. Playing both sides of the fence. Employers don't understand you. Jim Corner loves ya!
Aug 3, 06 11:52 am ·
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Sustainable Design
Which schools offer post-professional degrees in sustainable design?
Since you seem new, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
We tend to talk about this a lot. Try:
here
here
and
here.
Next time, try doing a search first.
your friendly neighbor,
dubK
ha!
At least Chili has almost 70 posts and over a 7:1 comment to entry ratio. Thats way better than the people who's first post/comment is "where should I go to school". I think archinect should make a new rule where you have to have 5 comments before you can make your first post.
Oh, and on a side note, it is irritating/intimidating going through some threads with 50+ comments on them where most of them are jokes or people doing....well...what I'm doing right now, lol.
jeez SBD you are bored, aren't you?
yes...
While I thank you for your help, WonderK, I find a majority of the comments in those past posts to be uninformative. Not to say that they were all garbage as I did find some relevant information. The programs I am trying to find are post-grad, intended for someone who has already graduated with an M.Arch degree, ie. a M.S. in Sustainable Design. I have so far only been able to find 2 schools who offer such a degree, Carnegie Mellon and UT Austin. I'm just curious if there is another school out there offering a program like this. Oh and WonderK, I'm sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it in my search of 8,000 comments.
Your friend,
Chili D
This is my point about previous posts. Sometimes they are just to saturated, starting fresh is a good idea. However, often a brief search can answer questions too.
As for you search for schools goes Chili, WonderK is probably the BEST person to ask, since she's going for the exact same degree. I know she just recently visited Carenegie and loved it. Hopefully when she gets back from her business trip, she can give you a a direct opinion on what's out there.
Look in the EU-
Macintosh School - scotland
Ireland
to name two...
just avoid getting sucked into doing a PhD.
Many of the Ivies offer an MS that has flexibility to design your course of study- check out Penn for their Building Simulation Group...
I'll hire you & WK when you graduate ;-)
Chili--
The University of Minnesota in Minneapolis offers an M.S. in Sustainable Design. And you've already found the other two programs I know of...
Thanks treekiller, but I want to remain in the states, preferably in the midwest. ohmygosh, UM Minneapolis is one I haven't found yet, but I will add that to my list of choices. Carnegie Mellon is the front runner right now, because of its relative proximity to Michiganistan, but UMM offers an interesting option. Thanks all of you for your help. If anyone knows of any others, or even a school that will be implementing such a program within the next 18 months, any input would be greatly appreciated.
Dar, I forgot the M.S. Arch degree at the UofMn was sustainable design focus. Why should I know that, it's not like I got my architecture degree from them...oh wait...I did.
UofMn is very self-concious about sustainability and and green design. They have several groups there that focus on greening the school and the community, and the dean and several professors are nothing short of determined to push sustainability on their students. Not to mention Big Ten schools rock, and Minneapolis is a fantastic city.
Not to mention you get to deal with my FAVORITE student director, Anne White. She's the best faculty person I have EVER met, and almost worth being the sole reason for going to that school.
er, self-concious was the wrong word, lol. how about just plain concious.
When someone enters the job market with an MS in Sustainable Design, will they go straight into spec writing, I wonder?
Do you think that in the near future, UofMn will implement a MS in Sustainable Design? I was looking for a program to enter after getting my M. Arch w/ sust. des. focus. Will the M.S. Arch from UofMn be redundant for the most part offering a look into sust. design but a focus on arch in general? The program I am looking for would be clearly focuses on sustainable design.
Well the MS program is like a supplement to the M.Arch program, not redundant, and it's focus is primarily Sustainable Design.
"During the past decade there has been a growing interest, throughout the world, in the practice of sustainable design in architecture. Pressing environmental, ecological, economic, and social and cultural implications of sustainable design have profoundly impacted design education, research, and practice. The Department of Architecture at the University of Minnesota has responded by offering the M.S. in Architecture Sustainable Design Track, which provides a diverse offering
of courses on sustainable design theory and practice to address issues such as energy and resource efficiency, water, waste reduction, and design, material, and technological innovations. This is the first Masters of Science graduate degree program in the U.S. which addresses the emerging theory and practice of sustainable design. The program accommodates students from varied backgrounds, including practicing design professionals, M.ARCH graduate students, and
students from other and related disciples. It prepares students to integrate sustainable design practice and research in the design professions, government agencies, research institutes, and
corporations."
Check out the full program description
Chili-
If you already have an M.Arch with a sustainable focus, what is your goal of getting the MS? If you're heading into research, then a PhD is what to chase (but that is a whole other topic). Try working for a bit (beyond the CAD Monkey phase) to see how you can apply your existing skilz and brains. Then if you find that you want to become an expert on energy modeling, then more schooling makes sense...
If you get the MS and return to practice before gaining more experience, you'll be right where you left off - as a cad monkey...
Chasing after becoming LEED-AP is a little premature if you're not near being a project manager - know the green rating systems, but save your money for now.
Maybe you just need a new job... good luck.
cf- hah! that is funny - spec writing. is this the future standard of sustainable design?
Sbd:
Wow, that sounds like an exciting new area of architectural research.
This should be part of every school's curriculum.
Will the program be designed around the LEED exam? I hope so. This would be an outstanding stroke of good luck.
We must sustain!!!
Ok, back from my business trip.
Chili Davis, those posts ARE in fact, the best places to look. Sorry if you find them uninformative but the truth of the matter is, post-professional degrees in sustainable design just don't exist in this country. I'm sorry, we're not magic, we can't tell you about American programs that just don't exist.
That being said:
-Yes, I loved Carnegie Mellon, and yes, I hear that UT Austin has a program of equal stature. CMU has a 12-month and 2-year degree while UT's is 2 year.
-Other good programs (or so I hear) in relative fields include USC, the University of Oregon (top notch, but not urban), and the University of British Columbia, although that's awfully far from Michigan.
-Other schools that claim to have sustainable focuses but offer no degree in Sustainable Design are more common, such as the University of Denver.
-treekiller makes a good point in that if you already have an MSArch, the PhD maybe what you're after. Carnegie's program is geared towards professionals and my focus, and the reasoning behind trying to get my Master's, is so that I am more technically proficient and able to apply sustainable technologies in the field.
-I have no intention of being a spec writer.
I can't be any more helpful than that.
UofMn stressed sustainability in the undergrad B.S. and B.A. arch classes, requiring us to take an Environment Arch course which taught passive and eco-friendly systems only. It was a wonderful course, and impressive that it was included in the undergrad curriculum as a requirment.
I think encouraging student to take the LEED is a great idea (Cincinnati does have a LEED course elective that focuses mostly on being able to take and pass the LEED test at the end of the course). But als think that LEED is just a support to the sustainable design teachings, and that it should not be the center of the curriculum.
The other thing that the Minnesota degree offers (to my knowledge) is more of a theory bases sustainable design emphasis compared to other degrees. Many other programs are more technical, where as most of all of UofMn's arch degrees are weighted more on the theory side.
here's a radical shift- instead of MS in architecture- go for a M.LA or M.S. in engineering. the M.LA will ground you in ecology, sustainable sites, soils, watersheds, environmental restoration, and the regional planning. Engineering can teach much more about systems, materials and energy efficiency and you expand your horizon and pool of potential jobs.
My own trajectory was getting a dual M.LA & M.Arch after a B.S.Arch... while I had few classes that were focused on 'sustainablity', this was a reoccuring issue in my landscape classes and often present in the architecture ones too. My current job is mostly planning, pre-design and concept design phase work- I have been able (with-in the site constraints) to maximize the green quotiant of the project under the radar. As a budding project manager with lots of client contact, being a LEED-AP is worthwhile, because I'm frequently discussing these issues.
U of C's aspiration to get their students LEED-APed is a waste of tuition dollars - by the time a new graduate reaches beyond being a CAD monkey into making project decisions and managing a project LEED will have radically changes and their knowledge will be stale.
Remember folks - project managers/designers are responsible for documenting and submitting the LEED credits, not interns... Thats what the LEED exam tests you on - how well you can coordinate and prepare the LEED submittal package. Yes, there are few design questions, but why do you need to know what ASHRAE 90.1 is if your just drawing details of a bathroom?
Ok, taking the test is a sign of your aspirations and familiarity with the topic, but there are more important professional development topics to focus on first; patience, patience....
I agree mostly with your view on LEEDs and interns. While I would love to take the test, I wasn't going to waste college credit on it (I almost signed up for the class, then decided I could take much more informative courses). I think it's great for everyone to get their cert in it, but it definetely isn't useful for interns (except they may understand building systems better, and become inspired to develop into more sustainable archtiects). In otherwords, it couldn't hurt.
no pain, no gain... it is a good prequel for the AREs/LAREs - so at that point go for it. But just don't do it for the sake of getting a set of initials after your name. It doesn't hurt, but it certainly doesn't need a graduate level course to become proficient...
PS - wait until you work for a firm that 1) is a member of USGBC for a $100 discount & 2) will pay for the exam. Don't waste your own dough on getting accredited- that means tuition too!
Chili-
I recently visited the UofMn and was thoroughly impressed with the design of their program, the students, the faculty, and the dean (who believes architecture cannot be separated from issues of sustainability and social justice). You can, in fact, just get an M.S. in Sustainable Design. They've certainly got the Minnesota "nice" down just right so I wouldn't hesitate to contact them if you are interested.
I ultimatley chose UT Austin though...argh, it was an incredibly difficult decision. I wanted a Masters program that had a strong commitment to Sustainable Design, but since I am going for my M.Arch first professional degree my requirements from a school were different from yours...
Good luck!
treekiller - where did you do your dual M.LA & M.Arch degrees? that is an interesting viewpoint. do you think that a masters in Landscape Architecture is as good or better than trying to do a "sustainable" major?
We all know the DI rankings are argueable, but Tom Fisher (UofMn dean) was ranked #1 Dean in like 2005 or 2004.
The facilities were also ranked #1.
I have heard great things from students and grads from both CMU and UMn, is there anyone from UTA who wants to offer up an opinion of the program/faculty/dean/school in general?
F-Penn baby! I'm ivy through and through with a touch of the big 10 lingering from my undergrad days.
Dual degrees versus specialized degrees may be another thread.
Pros of dual degree (arch/'scape)- able to play at all scales from micro to macro, 1mm to 80+ miles. Connects human action to nature. Sit on both sides of professional fence. Integrate buildings into site better then either profession alone. Integrate plants with buildings. understand climate better then archs. Can detail better then 'scapers. can out civil engineers with natural systems. Only needed one architecture studio to graduate (with advanced standing). Avoids generative algorhythm/maya masterbation. Jim Corner loves ya!
cons of 2Ds- can't take too many electives with all those requirements. One or two extra years. Don't know GIS, energy modeling, all those frilly pretty plants. Playing both sides of the fence. Employers don't understand you. Jim Corner loves ya!
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