I have recently decided that I should accept an offer at a new job. This is the first time that I have left a job to go to another one (before I left to attend graduate school) and I am suffering from a little bit of guilt. The new place is much smaller and I would have more of an opportunity to work WITH the team instead of for it( those of you at large corporate firms know what I'm talking about), and the principals let the younger people have much more influence than at my current job. Still, I know a lot of people are going to be suprised by my decision and maybe a little betrayed.
I know that I am making the right decision for myself, but there are things that I like about the old place that I'm going to miss. ALL of my friends work at this firm, and my social life is completely wrapped up in that. It may be awkward hanging out with them after I leave. Because of the firm's size, they are able to provide a lot of side activities- drinks and parties at the office, sponsorship of company sports teams, ARE fees, just the wealth of experience and connections that comes from having a firm of that size. Most of the people that I work with are cool as hell, and I'm certainly going to miss the shooting the shit with these guys.
However...in between all of the fun stuff, you know when I'm actually working, its not all that great. I feel trapped in a job that is leading me to decreasing opportunities. Those of us outside the loop don't get invited to meetings and don't get told of the projects progress, we only get told what to do. I'm beyond feeling frustrated and angry-now I'm just sort of depressed and apathetic.When you are interviewing they really sell you on a whole bunch of stuff that never really happens. Unless you went to the 'right' southern design school, are a good old southern boy, a hot southern girl, or some poor slob on a visa they can work to death. I'm not any of the above, and I have had a really hard time making this job one that I'm happy to go to each day. I busted my butt when I took this job, only to get moved around helping out on other projects while other interns with less experience were made part of dedicated teams. It doesn't help that my immediate boss is a sort of a sexist prick who shows obvious bias towards a certain female intern in our studio. The guy hasn't said more than 50 words to me in the last 9 months-and in my review he sort of implied that if I wanted to get to know him I would have to 'hang out' with him more. Eww...
My family is sort of against me making the move. As uninspiring as it is,my current job is very secure, and as long as I do my work and joing a couple of committees they aren't going to fire me. I can keep going through the motions and recieve my bonus and yearly raise. My mom sees scheduled raises and a 401k as the untimate success and she can't understand why I would leave a job like this. She thinks I am running off Howard Roark style to draft in some dimly lit office.
Perhaps I should wait it out and TRY to make it work at my current office, but the offer I have is from a designer that I have always admired and this offer will not likely come up again. They are nice people and they are giving me a fair offer, and frankly the ways things are currently I don't see why I should pursue this.
Well...I'm just ranting to myself here. Join in if you want but please don't shoot me.
Take a chance, take the new job, and keep the old friends.
Give your 2 weeks notice, but don't rant there like you have here.
You don't want to burn your bridges to your current firm.
You might want to go back if the new job doesn't work out.
Exactly: don't burn bridges. Be professional about leaving, offer at least two week's notice, three if you have a lot of responibilities that will require handing off to others (it sounds like you don't have this and that is one of the reasons you are moving on).
Also, your comment about the firm telling you things during the interview that never came to pass should be something you bring up during your exit interview. Tell them in all honestly this is one of the resons you are elaving, because you feel they haven't given you the opportunities you expected and have worked towards.
I worked with someone who did a similar move, ended up at a new job doing a slightly differeent kind of work she was happier with, but she still came to a lot of our office happy hours etc - she kept the social aspect of the firm she left because she left on good terms. Try to do that.
There is nothing wrong with job hopping a bit when you are young, and if nothing else keeping your friends in the old place and adding new contacts will expand your network - always a good thing. Good luck with the new position.
thanks guys. I'm not one for burning bridges. I really work with some great people and I know I will end up working with some of them in the future. The firm isn't a horrible place, its just that its so large people get lost and their needs can't really be met.
The people at the new job were were really cool when I explained that I really wanted to see the CDs of my current project out the door before I left. If I leave my friends holding the bag they will certainly NOT want to go drinking with me on the weekends.
?????Unless you went to the 'right' southern design school, are a good old southern boy, a hot southern girl, or some poor slob on a visa they can work to death??????
I kind of get it. I work for a large firm in the south and people from northern schools are NOT the norm. You do kind of feel like you aren't in the club.
its called two weeks notice. they could lay you off/let you go any day of the week. if you find something that you feel will be a better fit for you then go for it. loyalty is dead in the water...
if the new job is a good opportunity that you think will be enjoyable, then you HAVE to take it... but as has been said previously, you need to leave in a professional manner so that you don't burn any bridges... architecture is a VERY SMALL
if the new job is a good opportunity that you think will be enjoyable, then you HAVE to take it... but as has been said previously, you need to leave in a professional manner so that you don't burn any bridges... architecture is a VERY SMALL world... given that you have mentioned the desire to stay on to complete CDs on your current project it sounds like you're heading in the right direction...
i had a similar situation when i left my last job... it was my first architecture job... i had worked there for a year between undergrad and grad school and then returned to the office after grad school... i had been back for 2 years when another opportunity fell in my lap... i wasn't looking for a job, but i also wasn't 100% happy with the old job... after accepting the new job i met with my boss and told him that i had a new opportunity that i thought that i had to take since it was going to provide experience in a much broader range of project types... he was very understanding and said that he knew the day would come eventually given my career aspirations... i offered to stay on for 5 more weeks until completing design development on my current project... after the 5 weeks i left... i still see a lot of my former co-workers... and i stop by the old office whenever i'm in the neighborhood...
as i said before, architecture is a small world... if you stay in the same town, given the inevitable turnover with every firm... you'll eventually work with some of the same people again...
decide what's best for you and make the move (or not)... and don't let your family's preconceptions on what makes a successful career influence your decisions... architecture is a field that not many people understand... and the important thing is that you're happy...
: "Firms make decisions based on what's best for them..."
This may be true, up to a point. But it must be said that many, many firms make operating decisions with the welfare of their employees firmly in mind ... your post tends to suggest that it's always a "we - they" sort of thing ... my own experience suggests that good firms don't approach employee relations as a zero-sum game.
I'm attempting to write my letter of resignation. I'm finding it to be kind of difficult. I'm trying to be brief, but I don't want them to think I'm necessarily leaving because of anything that 'they' did to me. Its not easy to quit a job that I don't really hate...
the time i have spent at blah and associates has been a rewarding experience both professionally and personally. (insert details if you want to) however, i have recently accepted a new position that is more in tune with the professional goals that i have set for myself. therefore, i will be leaving blah and associates on (insert date here).
vayo con dios,
(insert name here)
janela,
here is another way to look at this:
large firms are good either for entry level architects (interns and newly graduated designers) who get a chance to be exposed to many different project and learn from many peers, and for mid-career designers who can act as senior architects, associates and assume positions of authority.
most people in between (who have some experience but dont qualify for senior management yet) just east a lot of shit in these kind of places, unless they have some senior patron pushing them forward (seems like your boss is offering patronage in return for other favors).
you seem serious, responsible (for wanting to finish those CD's), not pushy and not wanting to fool around with your boss.
go where your talent is appreciated, not your gender or the design school you attended. if there is a designer you respect who offers you a job - embrace it! as a young professional you will enjoy working in an environment that has true design leadership instead of sexist norms, and as the new recruit you will have a chance to express yourself there - especially if it is not a large corporate office.
best of luck, and it really doesnt matter what you write in your letter of resignation - these only exist for legal purposes, which are largely irrelevant to your situation.
Young architects tend to treat a new job as a life sentence.
Some of this is market driven but remember that you are a valuable commodity and many firms don’t want yo to know that. You need to evaluate for yourself your value and what it is you want to do with your career and support those concerns. The days of corporate loyalty are over.
The days when you can expect to spend a life time at a job are over. You have to do what is best for you and your future. Most firms and principals will do what is best for them.
I just want to clarify that my boss wasn't trying to get me to fool around with him or anything like that. He just likes young people to hang out with him and make him feel cool.
Hes not a pervert-just a dork.
"The days of corporate loyalty are over... You have to do what is best for you and your future. Most firms and principals will do what is best for them.
This line of thinking gets a lot of play here on Archinect - it doesn't square with my own experience. I know many firms with many long-term employees - and I'm not just talking about those with no ambition or the ability to move.
While I think it's true that few people expect to stay where they are forever, I think a strong case can be made for finding a good home and sticking there for an extended period of time. There's developmental value in putting down roots and really developing a solid relationship with a group of people.
One reason firms seen to not value loyalty is, I think, the result of the increasing tendency to job hop - it is, I suppose, a 'chicken and egg' sort of thing, but firms see little incentive to invest heavily in staff development, only to see those developed skills walk out the door for a few more dollars.
Our firm has a core group of key professionals - there is a strong sense of mutual loyalty - they protect us during hard times and we reciprocate with productivity and good work and commitment. I confess this can be a hard group to break into, but 'belonging' comes from working together for many years. We're paid well and the firm understands that it's in their best interests to take care of us - we feel the same about them.
I offer this story simply as an alternate point-of-view. I think you do gain experience by moving around. But, you build a career by making a commitment and working through those issues that may not be perfect.
Janela, I am in the same boat. Having been in the office for 5 years - I've become increasingly concerned that I've become "comfortable" or complacent in the job. Alot of my edge has been taken off. That said I perform well at the job the architectural side that is - but I've become more more impatient with the office poli-tricks. I've been offered a chance to join a small practice that has a nice portfolio however not as diverse as my present location. And I've found that for the last 6 months i've been on the fence fearful to make a decision.
Where I am now has invested alot in me - and has gotten way more out of me. But I'm extremely loyal and I know that those that remain won't be able to take the mantle, and they have actually refused the position citing it as "troublesome" so i share your pain
I support your actions. I'm not sure of your situation exactly but being able to move from job to job early in your career is brilliant, especially when the only dependency is your happiness. Wish you luck...go for it
babs-I totally agree with everything you've said. I suppose that if I had not gotten this offer I would be making every effort to work out the kinks in my current situation. Like I mentioned in the original post, there are a lot of things I really like about this place. I think as a company they care alot about their employees and they invest a lot to make sure that people are happy.
However, I feel that this is going to be the last chance I get to try something else before I figure out what type of firm I want to make a home at. Its still REALLY early in my career and I can afford to move at least once more before I decide where I want to hunker down for the next few years and soak up the knowledge.
architechnophilia- thanks for your encouragement. I totally understand the fear of changing a situation that you have become comfortable with. It would be so much easier to stay put and hope for the best. Somedays I'm like "Well...this isn't so bad" and then i wonder if I could stand another 2-5 years and I don't think I could.
New job offer-guilt and possibilities
I have recently decided that I should accept an offer at a new job. This is the first time that I have left a job to go to another one (before I left to attend graduate school) and I am suffering from a little bit of guilt. The new place is much smaller and I would have more of an opportunity to work WITH the team instead of for it( those of you at large corporate firms know what I'm talking about), and the principals let the younger people have much more influence than at my current job. Still, I know a lot of people are going to be suprised by my decision and maybe a little betrayed.
I know that I am making the right decision for myself, but there are things that I like about the old place that I'm going to miss. ALL of my friends work at this firm, and my social life is completely wrapped up in that. It may be awkward hanging out with them after I leave. Because of the firm's size, they are able to provide a lot of side activities- drinks and parties at the office, sponsorship of company sports teams, ARE fees, just the wealth of experience and connections that comes from having a firm of that size. Most of the people that I work with are cool as hell, and I'm certainly going to miss the shooting the shit with these guys.
However...in between all of the fun stuff, you know when I'm actually working, its not all that great. I feel trapped in a job that is leading me to decreasing opportunities. Those of us outside the loop don't get invited to meetings and don't get told of the projects progress, we only get told what to do. I'm beyond feeling frustrated and angry-now I'm just sort of depressed and apathetic.When you are interviewing they really sell you on a whole bunch of stuff that never really happens. Unless you went to the 'right' southern design school, are a good old southern boy, a hot southern girl, or some poor slob on a visa they can work to death. I'm not any of the above, and I have had a really hard time making this job one that I'm happy to go to each day. I busted my butt when I took this job, only to get moved around helping out on other projects while other interns with less experience were made part of dedicated teams. It doesn't help that my immediate boss is a sort of a sexist prick who shows obvious bias towards a certain female intern in our studio. The guy hasn't said more than 50 words to me in the last 9 months-and in my review he sort of implied that if I wanted to get to know him I would have to 'hang out' with him more. Eww...
My family is sort of against me making the move. As uninspiring as it is,my current job is very secure, and as long as I do my work and joing a couple of committees they aren't going to fire me. I can keep going through the motions and recieve my bonus and yearly raise. My mom sees scheduled raises and a 401k as the untimate success and she can't understand why I would leave a job like this. She thinks I am running off Howard Roark style to draft in some dimly lit office.
Perhaps I should wait it out and TRY to make it work at my current office, but the offer I have is from a designer that I have always admired and this offer will not likely come up again. They are nice people and they are giving me a fair offer, and frankly the ways things are currently I don't see why I should pursue this.
Well...I'm just ranting to myself here. Join in if you want but please don't shoot me.
Take a chance, take the new job, and keep the old friends.
Give your 2 weeks notice, but don't rant there like you have here.
You don't want to burn your bridges to your current firm.
You might want to go back if the new job doesn't work out.
Oh, and tell your mother it's your life.
Exactly: don't burn bridges. Be professional about leaving, offer at least two week's notice, three if you have a lot of responibilities that will require handing off to others (it sounds like you don't have this and that is one of the reasons you are moving on).
Also, your comment about the firm telling you things during the interview that never came to pass should be something you bring up during your exit interview. Tell them in all honestly this is one of the resons you are elaving, because you feel they haven't given you the opportunities you expected and have worked towards.
I worked with someone who did a similar move, ended up at a new job doing a slightly differeent kind of work she was happier with, but she still came to a lot of our office happy hours etc - she kept the social aspect of the firm she left because she left on good terms. Try to do that.
There is nothing wrong with job hopping a bit when you are young, and if nothing else keeping your friends in the old place and adding new contacts will expand your network - always a good thing. Good luck with the new position.
thanks guys. I'm not one for burning bridges. I really work with some great people and I know I will end up working with some of them in the future. The firm isn't a horrible place, its just that its so large people get lost and their needs can't really be met.
The people at the new job were were really cool when I explained that I really wanted to see the CDs of my current project out the door before I left. If I leave my friends holding the bag they will certainly NOT want to go drinking with me on the weekends.
?????Unless you went to the 'right' southern design school, are a good old southern boy, a hot southern girl, or some poor slob on a visa they can work to death??????
I kind of get it. I work for a large firm in the south and people from northern schools are NOT the norm. You do kind of feel like you aren't in the club.
its called two weeks notice. they could lay you off/let you go any day of the week. if you find something that you feel will be a better fit for you then go for it. loyalty is dead in the water...
Firms make decisions based on what's best for them, so should you.
if the new job is a good opportunity that you think will be enjoyable, then you HAVE to take it... but as has been said previously, you need to leave in a professional manner so that you don't burn any bridges... architecture is a VERY SMALL
if the new job is a good opportunity that you think will be enjoyable, then you HAVE to take it... but as has been said previously, you need to leave in a professional manner so that you don't burn any bridges... architecture is a VERY SMALL world... given that you have mentioned the desire to stay on to complete CDs on your current project it sounds like you're heading in the right direction...
i had a similar situation when i left my last job... it was my first architecture job... i had worked there for a year between undergrad and grad school and then returned to the office after grad school... i had been back for 2 years when another opportunity fell in my lap... i wasn't looking for a job, but i also wasn't 100% happy with the old job... after accepting the new job i met with my boss and told him that i had a new opportunity that i thought that i had to take since it was going to provide experience in a much broader range of project types... he was very understanding and said that he knew the day would come eventually given my career aspirations... i offered to stay on for 5 more weeks until completing design development on my current project... after the 5 weeks i left... i still see a lot of my former co-workers... and i stop by the old office whenever i'm in the neighborhood...
as i said before, architecture is a small world... if you stay in the same town, given the inevitable turnover with every firm... you'll eventually work with some of the same people again...
decide what's best for you and make the move (or not)... and don't let your family's preconceptions on what makes a successful career influence your decisions... architecture is a field that not many people understand... and the important thing is that you're happy...
sorry for the weird half-post + double post... hit tab instead of caps lock followed by enter which then submitted it...
strange...
so you'll be the "hot northern girl" at the new place :-)
: "Firms make decisions based on what's best for them..."
This may be true, up to a point. But it must be said that many, many firms make operating decisions with the welfare of their employees firmly in mind ... your post tends to suggest that it's always a "we - they" sort of thing ... my own experience suggests that good firms don't approach employee relations as a zero-sum game.
I'm attempting to write my letter of resignation. I'm finding it to be kind of difficult. I'm trying to be brief, but I don't want them to think I'm necessarily leaving because of anything that 'they' did to me. Its not easy to quit a job that I don't really hate...
dear blah,
the time i have spent at blah and associates has been a rewarding experience both professionally and personally. (insert details if you want to) however, i have recently accepted a new position that is more in tune with the professional goals that i have set for myself. therefore, i will be leaving blah and associates on (insert date here).
vayo con dios,
(insert name here)
there its done.
Been working on that one for youself, vado dear?
mine would be like this
Janela: Do you live in Atlanta and work for TVS?
I'm in Atlanta but not at TVS. From what I've heard its sort of similar.
janela,
here is another way to look at this:
large firms are good either for entry level architects (interns and newly graduated designers) who get a chance to be exposed to many different project and learn from many peers, and for mid-career designers who can act as senior architects, associates and assume positions of authority.
most people in between (who have some experience but dont qualify for senior management yet) just east a lot of shit in these kind of places, unless they have some senior patron pushing them forward (seems like your boss is offering patronage in return for other favors).
you seem serious, responsible (for wanting to finish those CD's), not pushy and not wanting to fool around with your boss.
go where your talent is appreciated, not your gender or the design school you attended. if there is a designer you respect who offers you a job - embrace it! as a young professional you will enjoy working in an environment that has true design leadership instead of sexist norms, and as the new recruit you will have a chance to express yourself there - especially if it is not a large corporate office.
best of luck, and it really doesnt matter what you write in your letter of resignation - these only exist for legal purposes, which are largely irrelevant to your situation.
Young architects tend to treat a new job as a life sentence.
Some of this is market driven but remember that you are a valuable commodity and many firms don’t want yo to know that. You need to evaluate for yourself your value and what it is you want to do with your career and support those concerns. The days of corporate loyalty are over.
The days when you can expect to spend a life time at a job are over. You have to do what is best for you and your future. Most firms and principals will do what is best for them.
Be focused on your goals.
I just want to clarify that my boss wasn't trying to get me to fool around with him or anything like that. He just likes young people to hang out with him and make him feel cool.
Hes not a pervert-just a dork.
HOK?
This line of thinking gets a lot of play here on Archinect - it doesn't square with my own experience. I know many firms with many long-term employees - and I'm not just talking about those with no ambition or the ability to move.
While I think it's true that few people expect to stay where they are forever, I think a strong case can be made for finding a good home and sticking there for an extended period of time. There's developmental value in putting down roots and really developing a solid relationship with a group of people.
One reason firms seen to not value loyalty is, I think, the result of the increasing tendency to job hop - it is, I suppose, a 'chicken and egg' sort of thing, but firms see little incentive to invest heavily in staff development, only to see those developed skills walk out the door for a few more dollars.
Our firm has a core group of key professionals - there is a strong sense of mutual loyalty - they protect us during hard times and we reciprocate with productivity and good work and commitment. I confess this can be a hard group to break into, but 'belonging' comes from working together for many years. We're paid well and the firm understands that it's in their best interests to take care of us - we feel the same about them.
I offer this story simply as an alternate point-of-view. I think you do gain experience by moving around. But, you build a career by making a commitment and working through those issues that may not be perfect.
why is it that I though that the city she was talking about was Atlanta and the firm TVS???
Janela, I am in the same boat. Having been in the office for 5 years - I've become increasingly concerned that I've become "comfortable" or complacent in the job. Alot of my edge has been taken off. That said I perform well at the job the architectural side that is - but I've become more more impatient with the office poli-tricks. I've been offered a chance to join a small practice that has a nice portfolio however not as diverse as my present location. And I've found that for the last 6 months i've been on the fence fearful to make a decision.
Where I am now has invested alot in me - and has gotten way more out of me. But I'm extremely loyal and I know that those that remain won't be able to take the mantle, and they have actually refused the position citing it as "troublesome" so i share your pain
I support your actions. I'm not sure of your situation exactly but being able to move from job to job early in your career is brilliant, especially when the only dependency is your happiness. Wish you luck...go for it
babs-I totally agree with everything you've said. I suppose that if I had not gotten this offer I would be making every effort to work out the kinks in my current situation. Like I mentioned in the original post, there are a lot of things I really like about this place. I think as a company they care alot about their employees and they invest a lot to make sure that people are happy.
However, I feel that this is going to be the last chance I get to try something else before I figure out what type of firm I want to make a home at. Its still REALLY early in my career and I can afford to move at least once more before I decide where I want to hunker down for the next few years and soak up the knowledge.
architechnophilia- thanks for your encouragement. I totally understand the fear of changing a situation that you have become comfortable with. It would be so much easier to stay put and hope for the best. Somedays I'm like "Well...this isn't so bad" and then i wonder if I could stand another 2-5 years and I don't think I could.
never rant, I said I was leaving for personal reasons - they can't pry into that. Remember change is here to stay.
Fanastic post, babs. Should be rewuired reading for all young interns. Thanks.
(I say this as someone who experienced a wonderful firm and was well-rewarded for the ten years I spent there before starting my own practice.)
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