Can we (I) get a quality review of running Autocad on a Mac-intel machine? (intel Mac Mini/MacBook)
There seems to be no resource that gives a good breakdown of this... that i can find. There are however a lot of reviews of running windows but i am specifically intersested in reviews regarding personal experience with PC based arch software on a Mac. (NOT virtualization/Virtural PC/Parallels/etc.. but dual booting)
I would be interested in knowning if there are any hardware/software issues of dual booting a MacBook for this purpose.
There are a previous threads related to this but not that informative.
I'm going to be trying this this weekend on my sister's new 15" MacBook Pro with Boot Camp, so I'll post back here with the results. I'm going to be trying out AutoCAD and Rhino for starters...
I got myself a macBookPro two weeks ago and installed AutoCAD onto my XP partition a few nights ago. Unfortunately I stare at autoCAD all day long at work(on a PC machine) so I generally don't feel compelled to spend time during the evening doing the same on my personal MAC. That said I did start on a landscape plan i'm doing for my parents last night and had NO problems whatsoever with AutoCAD on the mac. It's pretty damn sweet and about time.
thus far XP has treated me kindly on bootcamp, although the keyboard volume controls don't work everything else seems to be pretty un-kinky.
As i said before though, i haven't put that much time on it yet....
add in outlook, mozilla and excel and it's a normal work session.
i'm particularly intereste in hearing reviews from folks who've set up dual monitors, xp on one, osx on the other.
that would be ideal on many levels.
you know, you can also (for those of us who will continue to dwell in the two system landscape) have a mac and an xp machine controlled by the same keyboard and pointing device. which can depending on your server config allow you to still do the 'ol drag and drop from one machine to the other. i don't have that config right now, but a buddy of mine does. it's not dual-boot, but still pretty sweet nonetheless.
the key is not having to switch keyboard and mouse everytime.
I would be concerned with performance of virtualization for running more CPU intensive software (rhino).
Parallels according to their website runs 'near native'. While, it is probably the most ideal way to run pc-based software on a mac, it may lack the required performance due to running XP on top of Mac OS (but i could be wrong, based on how it actually takes advantage of the dual core). I'd be interested in someone's experience with parallels as well.
I was at the Apple store in Pasadena last weekend...asked the guy if they had any computers set up to run Windows; I was an architect and would be using AutoCad
they said that since they didnt support Windows, they couldnt discuss it
same thing, mdler
i went to soho apple hoping to see a demo or something, and they could really give a shit less about windows on a mac. besides, in the time it takes to install and set up, they could sell 25 ipods, more than covering you $3000 purchase
Well, you have to remember here that the Apple coporate retail stores exist for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only: to convince PC users to walk out of the place with a Mac after selling the "Mac Experience" of simplicity, ease-of-use, etc. There are plenty of licensed Mac resellers and shops that are pushing Boot Camp as a selling tool, so maybe your business should be directed toward them. In Apple's defense, it would be crazy of them to publicly tout and display beta software, which Boot Camp is still considered - it's still experimental. Maybe once 10.5 comes out near the end of the year, and Boot Camp becomes a full part of the OS, then will they tout it at the Apple Store.
Alright...both AutoCAD 2K5 and Rhino 3.0 were pretty snappy on a 1.83 GHz 15" MBP with 1 GB RAM I didn't do anything terribly complex, but it was stable and fully functional, which is what my main concern was.
If you're running Boot Camp, there should be no problem whatsoever. An Intel Mac is just a shiny (albeit overpriced) PC. All Boot Camp does is provide Windows drivers for Mac hardware.
It's all gorgeous- 3dstudio, rhino etc - but as odp1 says - by booting up in windows it is the same as having a powerfull pc- the virtual solutions are a lot weaker- but the hardware optimisaion in bootcamp means it really is running as a pc. the biggest downside so far is on the mac side for the slightly sluggish lack of universal applications and the lee than optimum performance until they are released.
but for me running two platforms in one book is an incredibly good idea
this all sounds pretty promising - even as a longtime mac user i'm looking forward to the benefits of a dual platform in one box - keep the reviews coming
I'm going into my third year of grad school in the fall and my pc laptop is getting slower by the minute. the speed of the macbookpro would be incredibly helpful, but I'm wondering if it's best to wait until leopard is released at the end of the year. any thoughts?
one thing, get a mouse.
the only thing that really bothers me about running xp on my macbook pro is the fact that the mouse has only one button, so i have to run the cntrl click app, and still, that's not adequate for rhino.
rhino runs beautifully.
game run beautifully (city of villains).
cinema 4d (in xp) runs amazingly smooth and makes use of both cores in a shiny shiny way.
ps. i'm talking about a 2.16ghz, 1gb ram macbook pro here.
It seems that once you start adding processor speed and memory to high-end PCs, the price becomes about the same as Mac, and I'm not so concerned with the "Mac experience." I'm purely interested in performance for rendering and for handling complex models in "big" programs such as CATIA, Solidworks, etc.
I know that there are a lot of variables, but for the sake of conversation, does anybody have any sense of how the fastest Macs compare with the fastest Alienware/Widow PC/Dell XPS machines?
ok, i have had macs[2] before but for the life of me if you want a pc platform just get yourself a pc -why would you bother with an emulator program that the manufacture will not support in anyway.
and just dont tell me their pretty! when you run bootcamp - you get yourself a windows enviroment and all the virus stuff etc.-- i dont understand.
and please - dont try to compare clonepc/macs with high-end pcs -
Well, I can't speak for anybody else, but as my post stated I'm interested in performance.
I would never buy a mac and try to run pc-native 3d modeling software with an emulator like Virtual PC. But, as I understand it, the new macs with intel chips can run Windows like it is native, not as an emulator. So my question, then concerns speed -- all the graphics people I know who use macs spout continuously about how much better and faster they are for those types of applications; the G5, when it was released, was touted as the fastest personal computer on the planet.
So, if I thought that a new Mac running windows would outperform a pc running windows, then I would consider buying one. Pretty simple really.
This has never even been a consideration before because Macs have never supported ANY of the cad or 3d software that I use. But now, it is a consideration. And because I don't know a whole lot about Macs, especially now that they have new chips, I thought this might be a good place to ask, since I'm dealing with CAD software issue.
If my question offends your delicate technological sensibilities, don't respond to it, TED. And don't try to kill the question simply because you don't have a useful response.
the new macs will run windows stuff about the same as a high end, business class PC laptop....meaning they can render just as fast as any pc with the equivalent CPU, ram, and (depending) hard drive.
the main difference will be in handling complex models in 3d viewports. the macs have a consumer class graphics card (radeon x1600), and for the most part won't really measure up in openGL performance to any PC with a workstation class card like a fireGL or non-NVS quadro. The mac also won't have access to the professional openGL featureset, so if you like/need hardware AA lines or other perks, the mac is out.
I've heard that the 'delete' key acts weird in Rhino and Autocad, that it's impossible to just grab something and hit to delete to erase it. Supposedly this has something to do with the way windows machines use both 'delete' and 'backspace'. Has anyone noticed this?
"I was at the Apple store in Pasadena last weekend...asked the guy if they had any computers set up to run Windows; I was an architect and would be using AutoCad
they said that since they didnt support Windows, they couldnt discuss it
Guess they dont want my $3000"
No it's just that it's been stated everywhere that apple won't be supporting windows, how would it look if they had windows running on the macs instore, i can sympathise with the employees why would you buy a mac to install windows it's like buying a farrari and filling the petrol tank with vegetable oil (also they are just following instructions from upper management), but i suppose a customer is a customer and if their are more mac users perhaps autodesk would get off their asses and produce a mac version of revit and or autocad. There are tons of reviews online and there are other stores that offer to install windows on a mac and might even have it running in their store display ... all you had to do is type "apple bootcamp" in google and boom... reviews galore.
First to continue with this "Guess they dont want my $3000" discussion. Of course there aren't Windows and of course they can't talk about it. Apple's OS is a comptetitor to Windows, and they want people to use their OS and pay for the upgrades (just like one has to do with Windows). It's just simple corporate marketing. The fact is that as they may not push the windows feature, they do secretly understand it will get people over to buy Macs and perhaps encourage them to us the Mac OS and not Windows in time. Saying you won't buy a computer based on that is just consumer tantrums.
Secondly, the only difference really is that now the software of the Mac OS is programmed for the architecture and drivers of computer hardware that are similar to a PC's inards. As stated before Bootcamp just loads the Window drivers. This is essentialy a PC now.
With that said, many of your programs you are using (Adobe products,etc) are running in emulator modes when you start up the Mac OS. That's because programs like Photoshop for Mac are still written for the old Mac OS architecture. They are being run in mini background programs to support their structure. It's like running Photoshop in VirtualPC but not nearly that complex. The result is that even though photoshop will run faster on your newer machine, it isn't running as fast as it can. Since photoshop for windows is designed for exactly that OS, it may be faster to run certain programs in the Windows partition of your mac than in the Mac OS (for the time being).
The question remains is the Mac OS faster than a Windows OS on a new Macbook or Imac? Is a piece of software emulating on the new Mac OS faster or slower than the Windows OS? As both a PC and Mac owner, I find the Mac OS much more stable than Windows. So if there two are comprambile to each other, then I'd pick running Photoshop and other programs on my Mac OS partition. I would like to find a benchmark program that was heavy on graphics, to compare both on the Windows and Mac OS partitions (preferably one that was meant for the old Mac OS and one that was meant for the new one). But I use futuremark which doesn't have a version for Macs. Anyone know of any that work for both?
And no worries all you Mac lovers. Most all Mac software will be designed for the new architecture when they come out with their next versions.
New member - please try not to kill me too dead immediately...
Virutialization software - VPC is dead if you've not heard yet. M$ will NOT be doing anything on the Intel platform Macs. However, VMWare will allow you to run Windows at 'near native speeds' - via Linux. OK, so now you have to partition your hard-drive into Mac/Linux, and make Linux big enough to install Windows on top of it (a scary proposition at best).
As for Mac v. pick-a-box, the Dell XPS systems seem to be at or near the top of all the comparisons I've seen so far, and if you go head to head on specs, you'll find yourself within a few (as in VERY FEW) dollars for comparably-equipped laptops - with the 17" MBP actually costing LESS (and I'll save the whole 'mac-mesiah' debate for another day...)
I am interested, specifically, in ACad 2007 on the MBP. I am a first-semester Geomatics student and am looking at the refurb 1.83 MBP v. the refurb 2.0 MBP. The 'big deal' to my thoughts are that the 1.83 only has a 128Mb dedicated video card v. the 2.0's 256Mb dedicated video card (this is NOT upgradeable). Maxing out RAM @ 2Gb is a natural step, and upgrading to a 120Gb SATA h/d is as well, so not 'terribly' worried about space, but at issue is the 128 v 256 video card. The processor is 8% faster, and I'm a nearly-broke returning student, so I can spend time to get by, but am concerned with the vid memory difference.
I've got an open email going with a local rep that is supposed to be forwarding to an engineer at Autodesk to reply, but no response as yet... :(
"Virutialization software - VPC is dead if you've not heard yet. M$ will NOT be doing anything on the Intel platform Macs. However, VMWare will allow you to run Windows at 'near native speeds' - via Linux. OK, so now you have to partition your hard-drive into Mac/Linux, and make Linux big enough to install Windows on top of it (a scary proposition at best)."
Just use bootcamp, you're making it difficult for yourself by installing linux and then windows. Parallels won't be good enough if you want to use your graphics card, but i heard they will be integrating that in an update at some point. When leopard comes out you should hopefully be able to run Parallels in one of your "Spaces" so you can switch between osx and windows really quickly. on a side note i walked past Autodesks HQ in london this week and i was tempted to egg the bastards for not realizing that there is a lot of interest for having autocad, revit and 3d studiomax run natively within OSX (they have the man power and the money)... FOOLS
I found an article where there was first-hand knowledge of AutoCAD 2k4 running fine on the 1.83 (w/ the base 512M RAM no-less!) to a point... but the requirements raised a new ceiling w/ 2k7. So, point of interest: 1.83 Core Duo and 128Mb video v. 2.0 Core Duo and 256Mb video. By the time I'm done, the RAM will be maxed @ 2Gb, so this is mute.
As for merom, the comparisons to yonah aren't overwhelming - least not til Santa Rosa, but by then I'll be in the next semester at least, and I'm needing (ok, 'wanting') this sooner than that... I DO have a 2800+ for a main system for now, so it'll be fine. But I'm contemplating the MBP becoming the 'only' system eventually - and why this is such a deal-breaker.
I have a MacBook Pro and basicly I am running Windows to handle Autodesk Products and Rhino...
Is there any way to print screen in Windows? As there is no print screen key on the keyboard.
I configured F12 to work as the "delete" key since windows recognises the keyboards delete as a backspace key. Can I do a similar thing with the print screen?
(I didn't do all this personally, our IT department did, hench I can't answer my own question through trial and error)
2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs
100GB Serial ATA drive @ 7200 rpm
MacBook Pro 17-inch Widescreen Display
SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
17-inch TFT Display
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB
Re: "ok, i have had macs[2] before but for the life of me if you want a pc platform just get yourself a pc -why would you bother with an emulator program that the manufacture will not support in anyway."
Ted, as others have mentioned, it's not an emulator program. The new Macs have Intel chips, and apparently they run Windows really, really fast.
I've been using parallels lately to run ADT2007 and Revit 2009 on my unibody mac book with 4gb of RAM. It works great just as long as I start parrallels clean (not restore a suspended session), don't put the computer to sleep while working and not run both at the same time.
it's funny, i was reading the thread carefully and didn't notice its age at all until it jumped three years.
s.selophane, if you can't run both xp and osx at the same type, what is the point of virtualization at all? I am sincerely interested in this subject. maybe we should migrate it over here http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=88565_0_42_0_C
I can respond to my own question all the years later here. I bought a 1st Ed. MBP - the original release 1.83 Dual Core w/ 128Mb video card. I upgraded the hard drive 3 times (now @ 250Gb - and out of room again) and the RAM to 2Gb. It functioned flawlessly! I installed Parallels on WinXP Pro w/o incident, then per course requirements ran AutoCAD 2006 and 2007, Land Desktop 2006 and Civil 3D 2007 in Parallels while in OSX without (many) issues.
The only time I experienced anything was running too many apps at once (Mail, iTunes, iPhoto, etc. and THEN starting Parallels and AutoCAD OR if I decided/forgot A'CAD was running and launched either LDD or C3D...) Otherwise it did and has performed without a hitch. I also bootcamped in install of the same setup and never noticed any significant speed variations at all - it worked as well in Parallels as in bootcamp. The college upgraded to desktop Dells running XP Pro w/ 2Ghtz dual-cores and 1 Gb RAM and I usually booted in Parallels/XP as fast or faster than the new Dells outright!
All-in-all, other than the speed of the newer (faster/mermon/etc) chips, I've never found fault with the refurb I got 2 years ago and expect it will keep me happy for at least another 2-5 years (unless it becomes my currently-4YO son's beforehand and daddy gets a new toy :) ).
I've no exp w/ any emulators outside of Parallels - but with the exp I've had so far I see no reason to either.
One final caveat re: Parallels and XP - DON'T forget to suspend the Windows machine before closing the laptop ala regular OSX - that caused a hickup EVERY time attempted... once I remember to suspend the active session it was just like running OSX - close the lid and go, open when you wanna work and start working.
ocotillo - I can run both at the same time, i just can't run more than one program in XP wihtout having a major slowdown. I can usually get away with mail, safari, itunes, and an rss reader running in osx. If i load something like iphoto I'm done for.
Of course, I'm also using a unibody macbook. Surly a MBP would not have as much of a problem.
switched to a unibody mac a few months back...using boot camp and liking everything about the setup except for three glitches:
1 - delete key doesn't work (solved by an earlier posting)
2 - haven't figured out which key to toggle "video out" for projectors
3 - editing a title block in paper space freezes up autocad (might be the particular block, haven't tinkered with it that much yet)
anyone with feedback? probably easily fixed, just haven't gotten around to it...
Thanks for the delayed response.. really delayed. I ended up running dual boot on a Mac Pro tower for a few years but now looking to get a laptop. Anyone running virtualization on a new 13" macbook (not pro)? Need something portable as my tower is still running well at home.
I have a question about formating the Windows partition with BootCamp....
I chose to give the Windows partition 50gb. This means that I can not format it as FAT, so I cannot copy files to or from the Windows partition from OSX. Has anyone run into workflow problems because of this? Is there any reason to give the Windows partition more than 32 GB???
i am wondering the EXACT same question... i have 320 gb. If you're running rhino and other 3d programs - rendering. Where is there a performance issue by allocating more to the windows xp side? 120 gb? Not planning on storing anything over there but how much performance jump would there be? on MBP 15" unibody 2.53 ghz ??? I mean I could do 64 or 96... i just don' know the difference and keep getting different answers. Applecare won't help much... they just say the standard 32 max for ntfs, yada, yada.
The first time that I set up Boot Camp on my MBP, I gave the partition 32GB, thinking that I would only be using that side for architectural software. However, what I failed to keep in mind was expandability, future software updates, and any new software that I would get. I ended up allotting 60GB just for the breathing room.
For anyone worried about being about to copy files back and forth between OS X (HFS+) and Windows (NTFS) partitions, there are two really handy tools to fix that problem. The first is called MacFUSE, which allows OS X to read/write to the NTFS partitions natively...and it's free. The second is called MacDrive, which allows you to do the same thing but backwards...Windows can read/write to the OS X partitions. That one, sadly, is about $30 last time I checked...but it's well worth it.
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Running AutoCad on Apple Mac-intel Machines
Can we (I) get a quality review of running Autocad on a Mac-intel machine? (intel Mac Mini/MacBook)
There seems to be no resource that gives a good breakdown of this... that i can find. There are however a lot of reviews of running windows but i am specifically intersested in reviews regarding personal experience with PC based arch software on a Mac. (NOT virtualization/Virtural PC/Parallels/etc.. but dual booting)
I would be interested in knowning if there are any hardware/software issues of dual booting a MacBook for this purpose.
There are a previous threads related to this but not that informative.
I'm going to be trying this this weekend on my sister's new 15" MacBook Pro with Boot Camp, so I'll post back here with the results. I'm going to be trying out AutoCAD and Rhino for starters...
Autocad runs well...
I got myself a macBookPro two weeks ago and installed AutoCAD onto my XP partition a few nights ago. Unfortunately I stare at autoCAD all day long at work(on a PC machine) so I generally don't feel compelled to spend time during the evening doing the same on my personal MAC. That said I did start on a landscape plan i'm doing for my parents last night and had NO problems whatsoever with AutoCAD on the mac. It's pretty damn sweet and about time.
I'll report back if I encounter any issues....
over and out
how does xp run, in general, with bootcamp? like a pc, or are there plenty of kinks?
thus far XP has treated me kindly on bootcamp, although the keyboard volume controls don't work everything else seems to be pretty un-kinky.
As i said before though, i haven't put that much time on it yet....
i'd like to know what happens when you're running aCAD, illus, and rhino at the same time...that's the true test
add in outlook, mozilla and excel and it's a normal work session.
i'm particularly intereste in hearing reviews from folks who've set up dual monitors, xp on one, osx on the other.
that would be ideal on many levels.
you know, you can also (for those of us who will continue to dwell in the two system landscape) have a mac and an xp machine controlled by the same keyboard and pointing device. which can depending on your server config allow you to still do the 'ol drag and drop from one machine to the other. i don't have that config right now, but a buddy of mine does. it's not dual-boot, but still pretty sweet nonetheless.
the key is not having to switch keyboard and mouse everytime.
or you can just run XP & OSX at the same time
[url=http://www.parallels.com/
]parallels[/url]
sorry-
parallels
I would be concerned with performance of virtualization for running more CPU intensive software (rhino).
Parallels according to their website runs 'near native'. While, it is probably the most ideal way to run pc-based software on a mac, it may lack the required performance due to running XP on top of Mac OS (but i could be wrong, based on how it actually takes advantage of the dual core). I'd be interested in someone's experience with parallels as well.
I was at the Apple store in Pasadena last weekend...asked the guy if they had any computers set up to run Windows; I was an architect and would be using AutoCad
they said that since they didnt support Windows, they couldnt discuss it
Guess they dont want my $3000
same thing, mdler
i went to soho apple hoping to see a demo or something, and they could really give a shit less about windows on a mac. besides, in the time it takes to install and set up, they could sell 25 ipods, more than covering you $3000 purchase
Well, you have to remember here that the Apple coporate retail stores exist for ONE purpose and ONE purpose only: to convince PC users to walk out of the place with a Mac after selling the "Mac Experience" of simplicity, ease-of-use, etc. There are plenty of licensed Mac resellers and shops that are pushing Boot Camp as a selling tool, so maybe your business should be directed toward them. In Apple's defense, it would be crazy of them to publicly tout and display beta software, which Boot Camp is still considered - it's still experimental. Maybe once 10.5 comes out near the end of the year, and Boot Camp becomes a full part of the OS, then will they tout it at the Apple Store.
Alright...both AutoCAD 2K5 and Rhino 3.0 were pretty snappy on a 1.83 GHz 15" MBP with 1 GB RAM I didn't do anything terribly complex, but it was stable and fully functional, which is what my main concern was.
anyone tried 3D MAX on a MacBookPro? want to cover my bases before I drop the cash.
If you're running Boot Camp, there should be no problem whatsoever. An Intel Mac is just a shiny (albeit overpriced) PC. All Boot Camp does is provide Windows drivers for Mac hardware.
It's all gorgeous- 3dstudio, rhino etc - but as odp1 says - by booting up in windows it is the same as having a powerfull pc- the virtual solutions are a lot weaker- but the hardware optimisaion in bootcamp means it really is running as a pc. the biggest downside so far is on the mac side for the slightly sluggish lack of universal applications and the lee than optimum performance until they are released.
but for me running two platforms in one book is an incredibly good idea
this all sounds pretty promising - even as a longtime mac user i'm looking forward to the benefits of a dual platform in one box - keep the reviews coming
I'm going into my third year of grad school in the fall and my pc laptop is getting slower by the minute. the speed of the macbookpro would be incredibly helpful, but I'm wondering if it's best to wait until leopard is released at the end of the year. any thoughts?
I would wait for apps to be Mactel-ized.
Also, there's a new chip coming called Meron (sp?) that will make its way into the MacBook Pro sometime in the next 6 months...
one thing, get a mouse.
the only thing that really bothers me about running xp on my macbook pro is the fact that the mouse has only one button, so i have to run the cntrl click app, and still, that's not adequate for rhino.
rhino runs beautifully.
game run beautifully (city of villains).
cinema 4d (in xp) runs amazingly smooth and makes use of both cores in a shiny shiny way.
ps. i'm talking about a 2.16ghz, 1gb ram macbook pro here.
It seems that once you start adding processor speed and memory to high-end PCs, the price becomes about the same as Mac, and I'm not so concerned with the "Mac experience." I'm purely interested in performance for rendering and for handling complex models in "big" programs such as CATIA, Solidworks, etc.
I know that there are a lot of variables, but for the sake of conversation, does anybody have any sense of how the fastest Macs compare with the fastest Alienware/Widow PC/Dell XPS machines?
ok, i have had macs[2] before but for the life of me if you want a pc platform just get yourself a pc -why would you bother with an emulator program that the manufacture will not support in anyway.
and just dont tell me their pretty! when you run bootcamp - you get yourself a windows enviroment and all the virus stuff etc.-- i dont understand.
and please - dont try to compare clonepc/macs with high-end pcs -
Well, I can't speak for anybody else, but as my post stated I'm interested in performance.
I would never buy a mac and try to run pc-native 3d modeling software with an emulator like Virtual PC. But, as I understand it, the new macs with intel chips can run Windows like it is native, not as an emulator. So my question, then concerns speed -- all the graphics people I know who use macs spout continuously about how much better and faster they are for those types of applications; the G5, when it was released, was touted as the fastest personal computer on the planet.
So, if I thought that a new Mac running windows would outperform a pc running windows, then I would consider buying one. Pretty simple really.
This has never even been a consideration before because Macs have never supported ANY of the cad or 3d software that I use. But now, it is a consideration. And because I don't know a whole lot about Macs, especially now that they have new chips, I thought this might be a good place to ask, since I'm dealing with CAD software issue.
If my question offends your delicate technological sensibilities, don't respond to it, TED. And don't try to kill the question simply because you don't have a useful response.
the new macs will run windows stuff about the same as a high end, business class PC laptop....meaning they can render just as fast as any pc with the equivalent CPU, ram, and (depending) hard drive.
the main difference will be in handling complex models in 3d viewports. the macs have a consumer class graphics card (radeon x1600), and for the most part won't really measure up in openGL performance to any PC with a workstation class card like a fireGL or non-NVS quadro. The mac also won't have access to the professional openGL featureset, so if you like/need hardware AA lines or other perks, the mac is out.
I've heard that the 'delete' key acts weird in Rhino and Autocad, that it's impossible to just grab something and hit to delete to erase it. Supposedly this has something to do with the way windows machines use both 'delete' and 'backspace'. Has anyone noticed this?
"I was at the Apple store in Pasadena last weekend...asked the guy if they had any computers set up to run Windows; I was an architect and would be using AutoCad
they said that since they didnt support Windows, they couldnt discuss it
Guess they dont want my $3000"
No it's just that it's been stated everywhere that apple won't be supporting windows, how would it look if they had windows running on the macs instore, i can sympathise with the employees why would you buy a mac to install windows it's like buying a farrari and filling the petrol tank with vegetable oil (also they are just following instructions from upper management), but i suppose a customer is a customer and if their are more mac users perhaps autodesk would get off their asses and produce a mac version of revit and or autocad. There are tons of reviews online and there are other stores that offer to install windows on a mac and might even have it running in their store display ... all you had to do is type "apple bootcamp" in google and boom... reviews galore.
First to continue with this "Guess they dont want my $3000" discussion. Of course there aren't Windows and of course they can't talk about it. Apple's OS is a comptetitor to Windows, and they want people to use their OS and pay for the upgrades (just like one has to do with Windows). It's just simple corporate marketing. The fact is that as they may not push the windows feature, they do secretly understand it will get people over to buy Macs and perhaps encourage them to us the Mac OS and not Windows in time. Saying you won't buy a computer based on that is just consumer tantrums.
Secondly, the only difference really is that now the software of the Mac OS is programmed for the architecture and drivers of computer hardware that are similar to a PC's inards. As stated before Bootcamp just loads the Window drivers. This is essentialy a PC now.
With that said, many of your programs you are using (Adobe products,etc) are running in emulator modes when you start up the Mac OS. That's because programs like Photoshop for Mac are still written for the old Mac OS architecture. They are being run in mini background programs to support their structure. It's like running Photoshop in VirtualPC but not nearly that complex. The result is that even though photoshop will run faster on your newer machine, it isn't running as fast as it can. Since photoshop for windows is designed for exactly that OS, it may be faster to run certain programs in the Windows partition of your mac than in the Mac OS (for the time being).
The question remains is the Mac OS faster than a Windows OS on a new Macbook or Imac? Is a piece of software emulating on the new Mac OS faster or slower than the Windows OS? As both a PC and Mac owner, I find the Mac OS much more stable than Windows. So if there two are comprambile to each other, then I'd pick running Photoshop and other programs on my Mac OS partition. I would like to find a benchmark program that was heavy on graphics, to compare both on the Windows and Mac OS partitions (preferably one that was meant for the old Mac OS and one that was meant for the new one). But I use futuremark which doesn't have a version for Macs. Anyone know of any that work for both?
And no worries all you Mac lovers. Most all Mac software will be designed for the new architecture when they come out with their next versions.
New member - please try not to kill me too dead immediately...
Virutialization software - VPC is dead if you've not heard yet. M$ will NOT be doing anything on the Intel platform Macs. However, VMWare will allow you to run Windows at 'near native speeds' - via Linux. OK, so now you have to partition your hard-drive into Mac/Linux, and make Linux big enough to install Windows on top of it (a scary proposition at best).
As for Mac v. pick-a-box, the Dell XPS systems seem to be at or near the top of all the comparisons I've seen so far, and if you go head to head on specs, you'll find yourself within a few (as in VERY FEW) dollars for comparably-equipped laptops - with the 17" MBP actually costing LESS (and I'll save the whole 'mac-mesiah' debate for another day...)
I am interested, specifically, in ACad 2007 on the MBP. I am a first-semester Geomatics student and am looking at the refurb 1.83 MBP v. the refurb 2.0 MBP. The 'big deal' to my thoughts are that the 1.83 only has a 128Mb dedicated video card v. the 2.0's 256Mb dedicated video card (this is NOT upgradeable). Maxing out RAM @ 2Gb is a natural step, and upgrading to a 120Gb SATA h/d is as well, so not 'terribly' worried about space, but at issue is the 128 v 256 video card. The processor is 8% faster, and I'm a nearly-broke returning student, so I can spend time to get by, but am concerned with the vid memory difference.
I've got an open email going with a local rep that is supposed to be forwarding to an engineer at Autodesk to reply, but no response as yet... :(
"Virutialization software - VPC is dead if you've not heard yet. M$ will NOT be doing anything on the Intel platform Macs. However, VMWare will allow you to run Windows at 'near native speeds' - via Linux. OK, so now you have to partition your hard-drive into Mac/Linux, and make Linux big enough to install Windows on top of it (a scary proposition at best)."
Just use bootcamp, you're making it difficult for yourself by installing linux and then windows. Parallels won't be good enough if you want to use your graphics card, but i heard they will be integrating that in an update at some point. When leopard comes out you should hopefully be able to run Parallels in one of your "Spaces" so you can switch between osx and windows really quickly. on a side note i walked past Autodesks HQ in london this week and i was tempted to egg the bastards for not realizing that there is a lot of interest for having autocad, revit and 3d studiomax run natively within OSX (they have the man power and the money)... FOOLS
oh and wait for the new merom processor, it has built in virtualization.
I found an article where there was first-hand knowledge of AutoCAD 2k4 running fine on the 1.83 (w/ the base 512M RAM no-less!) to a point... but the requirements raised a new ceiling w/ 2k7. So, point of interest: 1.83 Core Duo and 128Mb video v. 2.0 Core Duo and 256Mb video. By the time I'm done, the RAM will be maxed @ 2Gb, so this is mute.
As for merom, the comparisons to yonah aren't overwhelming - least not til Santa Rosa, but by then I'll be in the next semester at least, and I'm needing (ok, 'wanting') this sooner than that... I DO have a 2800+ for a main system for now, so it'll be fine. But I'm contemplating the MBP becoming the 'only' system eventually - and why this is such a deal-breaker.
Here is a question...
I have a MacBook Pro and basicly I am running Windows to handle Autodesk Products and Rhino...
Is there any way to print screen in Windows? As there is no print screen key on the keyboard.
I configured F12 to work as the "delete" key since windows recognises the keyboards delete as a backspace key. Can I do a similar thing with the print screen?
(I didn't do all this personally, our IT department did, hench I can't answer my own question through trial and error)
tempdrive - which version of the products are you using? I'm just trying to find out about Core Duo @ 1.83 AND 128Mb video VS. 2.0 AND 256Mb video.
These are the specs of my MacBook Pro.
2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs
100GB Serial ATA drive @ 7200 rpm
MacBook Pro 17-inch Widescreen Display
SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
17-inch TFT Display
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB
If you mean software products then:
Acad 2006, Max 8, Rhino 3
Re: "ok, i have had macs[2] before but for the life of me if you want a pc platform just get yourself a pc -why would you bother with an emulator program that the manufacture will not support in anyway."
Ted, as others have mentioned, it's not an emulator program. The new Macs have Intel chips, and apparently they run Windows really, really fast.
So in conclusion.... Parallels or Bootcamp?
WOW!
This sat for three years. I think parallels is faster than VMware at the moment.
Bootcamp is faster but it isn't as convenient. You can put mac stuff on one screen and PC stuff on the other.
I've been using parallels lately to run ADT2007 and Revit 2009 on my unibody mac book with 4gb of RAM. It works great just as long as I start parrallels clean (not restore a suspended session), don't put the computer to sleep while working and not run both at the same time.
it's funny, i was reading the thread carefully and didn't notice its age at all until it jumped three years.
s.selophane, if you can't run both xp and osx at the same type, what is the point of virtualization at all? I am sincerely interested in this subject. maybe we should migrate it over here http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=88565_0_42_0_C
I can respond to my own question all the years later here. I bought a 1st Ed. MBP - the original release 1.83 Dual Core w/ 128Mb video card. I upgraded the hard drive 3 times (now @ 250Gb - and out of room again) and the RAM to 2Gb. It functioned flawlessly! I installed Parallels on WinXP Pro w/o incident, then per course requirements ran AutoCAD 2006 and 2007, Land Desktop 2006 and Civil 3D 2007 in Parallels while in OSX without (many) issues.
The only time I experienced anything was running too many apps at once (Mail, iTunes, iPhoto, etc. and THEN starting Parallels and AutoCAD OR if I decided/forgot A'CAD was running and launched either LDD or C3D...) Otherwise it did and has performed without a hitch. I also bootcamped in install of the same setup and never noticed any significant speed variations at all - it worked as well in Parallels as in bootcamp. The college upgraded to desktop Dells running XP Pro w/ 2Ghtz dual-cores and 1 Gb RAM and I usually booted in Parallels/XP as fast or faster than the new Dells outright!
All-in-all, other than the speed of the newer (faster/mermon/etc) chips, I've never found fault with the refurb I got 2 years ago and expect it will keep me happy for at least another 2-5 years (unless it becomes my currently-4YO son's beforehand and daddy gets a new toy :) ).
I've no exp w/ any emulators outside of Parallels - but with the exp I've had so far I see no reason to either.
One final caveat re: Parallels and XP - DON'T forget to suspend the Windows machine before closing the laptop ala regular OSX - that caused a hickup EVERY time attempted... once I remember to suspend the active session it was just like running OSX - close the lid and go, open when you wanna work and start working.
ocotillo - I can run both at the same time, i just can't run more than one program in XP wihtout having a major slowdown. I can usually get away with mail, safari, itunes, and an rss reader running in osx. If i load something like iphoto I'm done for.
Of course, I'm also using a unibody macbook. Surly a MBP would not have as much of a problem.
switched to a unibody mac a few months back...using boot camp and liking everything about the setup except for three glitches:
1 - delete key doesn't work (solved by an earlier posting)
2 - haven't figured out which key to toggle "video out" for projectors
3 - editing a title block in paper space freezes up autocad (might be the particular block, haven't tinkered with it that much yet)
anyone with feedback? probably easily fixed, just haven't gotten around to it...
Thanks for the delayed response.. really delayed. I ended up running dual boot on a Mac Pro tower for a few years but now looking to get a laptop. Anyone running virtualization on a new 13" macbook (not pro)? Need something portable as my tower is still running well at home.
I've downloaded the autocad architecture 2010 student version on my parallels and it sloooooowwwwwss dowwn my lap top sooo muuuch.....
pkim2600 - I am running a 13" unibody macbook. See my comments above about its performance with parrallels.
I have a question about formating the Windows partition with BootCamp....
I chose to give the Windows partition 50gb. This means that I can not format it as FAT, so I cannot copy files to or from the Windows partition from OSX. Has anyone run into workflow problems because of this? Is there any reason to give the Windows partition more than 32 GB???
HELP!
i am wondering the EXACT same question... i have 320 gb. If you're running rhino and other 3d programs - rendering. Where is there a performance issue by allocating more to the windows xp side? 120 gb? Not planning on storing anything over there but how much performance jump would there be? on MBP 15" unibody 2.53 ghz ??? I mean I could do 64 or 96... i just don' know the difference and keep getting different answers. Applecare won't help much... they just say the standard 32 max for ntfs, yada, yada.
The first time that I set up Boot Camp on my MBP, I gave the partition 32GB, thinking that I would only be using that side for architectural software. However, what I failed to keep in mind was expandability, future software updates, and any new software that I would get. I ended up allotting 60GB just for the breathing room.
For anyone worried about being about to copy files back and forth between OS X (HFS+) and Windows (NTFS) partitions, there are two really handy tools to fix that problem. The first is called MacFUSE, which allows OS X to read/write to the NTFS partitions natively...and it's free. The second is called MacDrive, which allows you to do the same thing but backwards...Windows can read/write to the OS X partitions. That one, sadly, is about $30 last time I checked...but it's well worth it.
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