hmmm .. i've used only 3dmax ...

it's quite good .. and from what I hear, it's the best for architectural rendering ...

Viz=simplified Max

Max/Final Render

I've seen insanely beautiful results using mental ray (bundled with maya, 3ds max and also available as a stand alone), but i'm not near that level yet.

I live by cinema 4d and the default renderer. Which can also do amazing stuff if you configure your materials and lighting right, which can be a pain.

3dstudio Viz & Max v.8/ lighting plug-ins Mental Ray and Vray. I prefer Mental Ray for exteriors, but the learning curve is much steeper than Vray.

Final Render has a plugin for C4D. I'd try to get your hands on a copy. You'll be only limited by your own skills.


C4D can do some great things with the radiosity, too, so just get a 'good eye' and you'll be able to make great renderings in anything.

Viz = Cheaper Version of Max - It has most of what you'll need for architectural visualization.
I personally prefer 3ds max / Vray. The inital cost of max can be expensive. We have a subscription so it only costs a little over $500 a year per seat for upgrades plus access to extensions and e-courses.
It pays for itself really.

just for kicks, check out Maxwell Render....strictly a rendering program - can easily work with files from modeling programs...especially everyone's friend...Rhino

i'm learning max and am quite impressed

I wish there was a demo of Maxwell, I want to try it.

There are alot of maxwell customers who are very pissed off.

it's gonna be a while before maxwell is useable for anything other than product designers - I think 90% of their customers have given up and want their money back...but next limit just bans them from posting on the forum.

i tend to disagree about the product design theory......

i'm not a product designer, nor was the architecture firm i worked with that used it all throughout a major competition....actually i know of several architecture firms that use it....and use it well..

lighting is extensive, batch rendering is available, and unlike most programs it actually gives you a preview of what your rendering is going to look like, instead of finding out 4 hours later.....and as stated before, if you are a big fan of rhino, the transition into Maxwell is painless...

Anyone know ashlar vellum software (cobalt, argon, graphite...)

I'm from a Industrial Design background and this is what I'm used to.

Is it any good for architecture?

ah, maxwell render

Ok, so other than "know of firm that uses it" or "know of someone who uses it" is somebody here actually making money out of this program? I mean, I'm not married to vray, and I would love to switch to something better, but as far as I've tried it, Maxwell is not production oriented unless you are an artist tht doesn't have any deadlines and is very wealthy considering the time you need to get a printable image.
So, anybody here selling images based on Maxwell renderings?

I love computers, worked at a computer store for 6 years. Fuck 3D models. Use SketchUp, it allows you to be a dynamic designer while you build the model up. Viz, Max, FormZ, I don't care how good they are now, it still looks like fake shit in the end. Build it out in SketchUp, get the idea across, then print it out and sketch over it and make it a hand drawn. Hand drawn or stylized designes are always better than rendered shit.

god damnit WonderK, log off my computer when you are done...That was me above there...

Why so much hate WonderK? I'm surprised to read such a post from you... Renderings can be beautiful too, as long as there's will for beauty...
Here's is what my friend Ryuta Amae does:

man, read all the posts, wonderk didn't right that, i did.

er, write...

And some of those do look great, i'll admit that. But at the same time, I'm sick of these firms using renders, and 90% of them just don't look real. They are getting closer and closer, but I'd rather have a hand drawn render over most 3D programs.

I've seen really ugly hand sketches too Super (if you don't mind I'll just call you Super). And as trace often points out, it's not so much about the tool but about the user. I'm still curious about actual maxwell renderers...

I have used Maxwell on a project I'm working on right now. It's a residential project and my boss wanted to show the clients some materials on a kitchen set up. I like a lot of things in maxwell. It plays well with Rhino and Maya. It's not particularly expensive to light an interior with only the sun. Render times are huge though. For a Full 1024 rendering with glass and correct materials, you are looking at 13 hours min. Also if you are looking at a window from the outside, the sunlight won't penetrate the glass. That's a pretty big problem. When the final release eventually comes out, I'll look at it again because the raw images are easy to set up and a very high quality.

Until then i like Turtle. It's a little less quality than mental ray, but 5 times faster. (I think i'm the last person using maya)

while the list of maxwell's shenanigans is far too long to get into here (V1.0 was promised over a YEAR ago...), but with the sun+glass issue (which isn't going to be fixed for a long, long time) and with the speed issue, it's really only viable for directly-lit (and simply-lit) scenes. which is fine for product designers but useless for architects.

and coop rendering isn't actually available yet. they put up a nice demo on their website (weeks ago), claiming that the speed issue wasn't an issue anymore (despite the moronic licensing structure), and then didn't release anything. or say anything.

they treat their customers like crap, promise what they can't deliver, and then refuse to give refunds or listen to criticism. Read the CG architect thread, if you're curious.

it's possible that in a couple years it may be a good option. but it's going to be a while, and they have a long way to go in repairing the rift with their customers.

French: sorry, I can't help. I know 3 firms that bought a license and went back to what they had been using before. two of them still poke around when there's a new release, but after a few days it just goes back on the shelf. I used the beta on one of their machines for a couple test things, and thought it had alot of potential...but just wasn't finished yet. I've been checking in on development every couple weeks on the forum, but I've stopped even that recently. You just can't treat your customers like that and expect to make money.

am I the only one that still uses form z? The last two firms I've worked at have only used it so i'm just the most comfortable with it