Need some advice here. Have an offer from a large international corporate firm in NYC- base $39k plus bonus and overtime. Their estimate for first year is $41,000 and for second year would be $46,000. Benefits are good- health/ dental/ vision and retirement/ stock after a year of work. Just wondering if this is considered a good offer or not? What is acceptable given NYC cost-of-living?
My background- will be graduating with an M.Arch. Three years of non-architectural work experience before grad school (which I'm guessing doesn't count)
It's not so much the financial aspect of it- am married and we can live comfortably on both incomes. Just a bit disappointed with what they offered as a reflection of what they value me at (was an intern there last summer). But I don't want to seem like a jerk asking for more if this is generally what to expect in the profession...
i started as a intern, and now am a full timr 'archi designer'. I have not gotta a professional degree and waiting for grad sch. It seem 39 K is prety okie, but since it s corporate, u may actually wanna try negotiaing for more. From what I know, its actually easier to negotiate before u get into the firm, rather than trying to ask for more a year later.
anyway, itf its double income, u dun have to worry too much,....
i usually hear my professors saying dont be picky, if u got a job, go for it. but i have worked as an intern at 2 firms. im going to graduate school, so at least i know what i will look for in terms of living costs at ny! i love ny!!
i never mind it when a candidate comes back to me with a counter offer ... but how it's done can be a BIG deal.
some candidates will say something like "could you maybe bump the offer by $____ because ... (pick all that apply):
a) i've got student loans;
b) i've got a big mortgage;
c) my wife just quit working because she's pregnant;
d) i'm saving for graduate school;
e) i like to travel overseas a lot;
f) i collect art;
g) i got a killer stereo for graduation and i'm building a room around it
h) _________________
in a salary negotiation, your "needs and wants" are not a prime part of the equation to most employers (although i acknowledge that your needs are paramount to you) ... all that really matters to an employer is what you can do and what sort of contribution you can make, now and in the future ... the fact that Employee X has a high cost of living does not make him/her more valuable than Employee Y, who lives with her Mom and takes the bus to work. these are personal decisions unique to each individual.
i am much more impressed when a candidate makes a coherent argument about what (s)he can do for our firm and how that translates into increased value to us; i'm also quite open to factual research (such as salary surveys) that might support a higher wage - but, i tend to want to see the research, not just hear about it - i see a lot of salary surveys myself and i'm quite open with candidates about the data i have at my disposal - surveys vary with respect to reliabilty and, depending on definitions and research techniques, can vary widely and are subject to interpretation.
mostly, i'm impressed by a candidate who has the courage and the intelligence to have a professional conversation with me about compensation ... it needs to be a dialogue, not a wrestling match. at the end of the day, i want an employee who feels like (s)he's being listened to, treated fairly and not being abused ... it doesn't always work out, but a good open dialogue usually can bridge most compensation gaps if both parties otherwise want to make the deal happen.
it's about being professional and treating the party across the table with respect
i totally agree with babs, its actually great to have his point of view in here, since he like the 'boss' perspective.
but i think the 'dun be picky' atitude is dangerous cos u wun want to end up in 'just any office'. I feel whats most important is u know what u can contribute to the office, and what u can ultimately learn from your experience in there.
As for the 'reasons' for negotiating, personally i would use ' previous professional experience', and 'being confident with a certain amount' as leading statements. As you may know, you wouldn't want to be known as a underpaid employee.
startng at 39k with dental? DENTAL!! if you get everything covered and start at 39k.....I don't see that as a bad gig at all. Even better if you like working there. I have been in NYC for almost 3 years and still don't have dental, actually.....with my new job I pay 40% of my health care
Also, totally agree with Prolly. I have Oxford and it is the best plan I've experienced or heard of in NYC, except for whatever it is that Google wrangled for their people.
Oh yeah, and whatever the interviewer "Estimated" verbally, try and get them to put it in writing. Even if they articulate that these are only tentative, it's still good to have it in writing.
That's actually on the high end of most right-out-of-school offers I've heard. It's also positive that they tell you upfront how much you can expect in raises and how often. You might actually see if you can negotiate for medical/dental after 3 mos. or 6 mos. instead of waiting a whole year (if I'm reading your post right). My benefits were supposed to begin 3 mos. after starting, and I was able to convince my employers to start it immediately because my wife and I were without insurance (a process which took 2 mos. anyhow).
I'm applying for a pretty low rung administrative position (that's barely on the management side of things.)
I'm more than likely going to be called on frequently throughout the day and will be depended on pretty much 24/7. I don't really mind this. The office however is pretty much smack dab right in the middle of the most expensive part of New York City.
While I don't even have an interview or anything, I want to get as many facts ready as possible.
The thing that troubles me the most (although I probably won't be on the production side of things [i.e., doing actual architecture) is finding a place to live that's within 15 minutes mass transit, half-hour walk to work.
Would any of the boss people buy the logic of asking for more money if I could live close to work?
I'm figuring the going rate is about 42-45k for this position. But to be able to live within walking distance of work, I'd need somewhere between 51k-53k. Any suggestions?
Why would they care where you live and/or sponsor your living in a fancy neighbourhood? As long as you get to your job on time it's your problem I guess. So I suppose they wouldn't buy your logic...
I think some sort of stipend for a car service might be something they might consider, but i doubt they would give a raise specifically so you can live in a more expensive, and closer neighborhood. How far of a car ride is it to their office? I think asking for parking reimbursement might be something they would consider first
if its a "low rung administrative position", would there actually be emergency reasons that need you to be within 15 minutes of work? Not having the luxury of being able to work from home probably wont fly as a reason to get more money so you can move.
ohh yaaaaa, definitely not enough to live on. You deserve much more then 39k/ health/ dental/ vision and retirement/ stock after a year. You should hold out for more.........So what firm was it again, and what's their address?
Just kidding, but seriously take the shit out of that offer. Congrats, it sounds great.
Those were the days....I wish it was 2005 or 2006....plenty of work to go around.
For those that also live in new york, dont you just wish we could kick out all the Indians and Eurotrash taking up architectural jobs for people that are actual Americans, or at least have a green card...and not working on a bullshit HB1 visa.
Nothing against immigration, but I find it very frustrating how at every firm I've interviewed since the great recession, i find several people in the office staff that just decided to move to NYC from Germany, or India, because its a "cool and trendy" place to live. It seems like firm owners like to collect these guys like if they were trophies.
There's even a new topic every week by somebody from ________(fill in the blank), who's asking for advice about moving here.
@chicarchitect, maybe those firm owners prefer them over you because let's say these foreigners are less xenophobic / open-minded?
Anyway, you can always do the other way around and move to Berlin or Mumbai. I am sure you will find Hindus who would love to have an American architect and show him like a trophy.
And don't forget that, specially in NYC firms, without projects in Germany or India, the unemployment rate would be much higher.
Thanks for pointing out that this is four years old.....I about shit just thinking about some kid that has no experience got a job this sweet while it slipped through my fingers. I havent heard of a deal like this in quite a while. I'm 90% sure generative_monkey is looking again.
I didn't read any of the other posts, so if my answer is the same as others, I apologize in advance.
If you got an offer to work at an architecture firm in this economy, that's over 30K, then TAKE IT.
Health + Dental is just icing on the cake.
There are so many out there , that would take that job for much much less. I know people who are even working for free!
Yes, the cost of living in NYC is high, but if you don't live in Manahattan and budget wisely it can be done. Not everyone in NYC makes over 80K, and plenty survive. Besides, once you have a few years under your belt and the economy slowly recovers, then you can command a higher salary and better firms.
Jakethesnake. This posting is an ancient relique of a world that no longer exists. I will probably read this to my grandchildren as if it were a far away land where people would actually get paid to create places to live work and play.
the "advantage" of living in manhattan is OVER-RATED!, even people that were born and raised in the city will tell you that. once you get on the train, it doesnt matter whether you live in queens or the lower east side of manhattan. it will take you almost the same amount of time/effort to get to the middle.... plus you wont get mugged like all the sex and city girls do in the upper east side if you live in a nice part of queens.
NYC salary question/ advice
Need some advice here. Have an offer from a large international corporate firm in NYC- base $39k plus bonus and overtime. Their estimate for first year is $41,000 and for second year would be $46,000. Benefits are good- health/ dental/ vision and retirement/ stock after a year of work. Just wondering if this is considered a good offer or not? What is acceptable given NYC cost-of-living?
My background- will be graduating with an M.Arch. Three years of non-architectural work experience before grad school (which I'm guessing doesn't count)
It's not so much the financial aspect of it- am married and we can live comfortably on both incomes. Just a bit disappointed with what they offered as a reflection of what they value me at (was an intern there last summer). But I don't want to seem like a jerk asking for more if this is generally what to expect in the profession...
you might want to review this thread: Intern (look at very bottom) and this one too: Salaries...
looks to me like you're in very good shape for that particular market.
i started as a intern, and now am a full timr 'archi designer'. I have not gotta a professional degree and waiting for grad sch. It seem 39 K is prety okie, but since it s corporate, u may actually wanna try negotiaing for more. From what I know, its actually easier to negotiate before u get into the firm, rather than trying to ask for more a year later.
anyway, itf its double income, u dun have to worry too much,....
Babs & Erngh- thanks for responding and for the advice!
i usually hear my professors saying dont be picky, if u got a job, go for it. but i have worked as an intern at 2 firms. im going to graduate school, so at least i know what i will look for in terms of living costs at ny! i love ny!!
i never mind it when a candidate comes back to me with a counter offer ... but how it's done can be a BIG deal.
some candidates will say something like "could you maybe bump the offer by $____ because ... (pick all that apply):
a) i've got student loans;
b) i've got a big mortgage;
c) my wife just quit working because she's pregnant;
d) i'm saving for graduate school;
e) i like to travel overseas a lot;
f) i collect art;
g) i got a killer stereo for graduation and i'm building a room around it
h) _________________
in a salary negotiation, your "needs and wants" are not a prime part of the equation to most employers (although i acknowledge that your needs are paramount to you) ... all that really matters to an employer is what you can do and what sort of contribution you can make, now and in the future ... the fact that Employee X has a high cost of living does not make him/her more valuable than Employee Y, who lives with her Mom and takes the bus to work. these are personal decisions unique to each individual.
i am much more impressed when a candidate makes a coherent argument about what (s)he can do for our firm and how that translates into increased value to us; i'm also quite open to factual research (such as salary surveys) that might support a higher wage - but, i tend to want to see the research, not just hear about it - i see a lot of salary surveys myself and i'm quite open with candidates about the data i have at my disposal - surveys vary with respect to reliabilty and, depending on definitions and research techniques, can vary widely and are subject to interpretation.
mostly, i'm impressed by a candidate who has the courage and the intelligence to have a professional conversation with me about compensation ... it needs to be a dialogue, not a wrestling match. at the end of the day, i want an employee who feels like (s)he's being listened to, treated fairly and not being abused ... it doesn't always work out, but a good open dialogue usually can bridge most compensation gaps if both parties otherwise want to make the deal happen.
it's about being professional and treating the party across the table with respect
i totally agree with babs, its actually great to have his point of view in here, since he like the 'boss' perspective.
but i think the 'dun be picky' atitude is dangerous cos u wun want to end up in 'just any office'. I feel whats most important is u know what u can contribute to the office, and what u can ultimately learn from your experience in there.
As for the 'reasons' for negotiating, personally i would use ' previous professional experience', and 'being confident with a certain amount' as leading statements. As you may know, you wouldn't want to be known as a underpaid employee.
babs, pls correct/ comments! thanks!
startng at 39k with dental? DENTAL!! if you get everything covered and start at 39k.....I don't see that as a bad gig at all. Even better if you like working there. I have been in NYC for almost 3 years and still don't have dental, actually.....with my new job I pay 40% of my health care
but the work is great!
I've got dental. SUP OXFORD FREEDOM PLAN METRO!?!??!!? Sound like the next WTC memorial. "Freedon Plan Metro"
Shit I hate bad architecture.
Totally agree with Babs.
Also, totally agree with Prolly. I have Oxford and it is the best plan I've experienced or heard of in NYC, except for whatever it is that Google wrangled for their people.
Oh yeah, and whatever the interviewer "Estimated" verbally, try and get them to put it in writing. Even if they articulate that these are only tentative, it's still good to have it in writing.
Or you could yell - "Show me the money"
it's pretty good, man. if you don't have arch experience at all before.
That's actually on the high end of most right-out-of-school offers I've heard. It's also positive that they tell you upfront how much you can expect in raises and how often. You might actually see if you can negotiate for medical/dental after 3 mos. or 6 mos. instead of waiting a whole year (if I'm reading your post right). My benefits were supposed to begin 3 mos. after starting, and I was able to convince my employers to start it immediately because my wife and I were without insurance (a process which took 2 mos. anyhow).
Ba-ba-ba-ba-bump.
Quick question--
I'm applying for a pretty low rung administrative position (that's barely on the management side of things.)
I'm more than likely going to be called on frequently throughout the day and will be depended on pretty much 24/7. I don't really mind this. The office however is pretty much smack dab right in the middle of the most expensive part of New York City.
While I don't even have an interview or anything, I want to get as many facts ready as possible.
The thing that troubles me the most (although I probably won't be on the production side of things [i.e., doing actual architecture) is finding a place to live that's within 15 minutes mass transit, half-hour walk to work.
Would any of the boss people buy the logic of asking for more money if I could live close to work?
I'm figuring the going rate is about 42-45k for this position. But to be able to live within walking distance of work, I'd need somewhere between 51k-53k. Any suggestions?
Why would they care where you live and/or sponsor your living in a fancy neighbourhood? As long as you get to your job on time it's your problem I guess. So I suppose they wouldn't buy your logic...
Because if I am called on a week night or a weekend for some emergency reason, who wants to wait an hour for someone to show up from Queens.
Also, part of the position would be handling financial information... and that means I can basically never work from home.
I think some sort of stipend for a car service might be something they might consider, but i doubt they would give a raise specifically so you can live in a more expensive, and closer neighborhood. How far of a car ride is it to their office? I think asking for parking reimbursement might be something they would consider first
if its a "low rung administrative position", would there actually be emergency reasons that need you to be within 15 minutes of work? Not having the luxury of being able to work from home probably wont fly as a reason to get more money so you can move.
ohh yaaaaa, definitely not enough to live on. You deserve much more then 39k/ health/ dental/ vision and retirement/ stock after a year. You should hold out for more.........So what firm was it again, and what's their address?
Just kidding, but seriously take the shit out of that offer. Congrats, it sounds great.
iheartbooks, this thread is 4 years old.
Those were the days....I wish it was 2005 or 2006....plenty of work to go around.
For those that also live in new york, dont you just wish we could kick out all the Indians and Eurotrash taking up architectural jobs for people that are actual Americans, or at least have a green card...and not working on a bullshit HB1 visa.
Nothing against immigration, but I find it very frustrating how at every firm I've interviewed since the great recession, i find several people in the office staff that just decided to move to NYC from Germany, or India, because its a "cool and trendy" place to live. It seems like firm owners like to collect these guys like if they were trophies.
There's even a new topic every week by somebody from ________(fill in the blank), who's asking for advice about moving here.
I'm just saying.
silly me.
@chicarchitect, maybe those firm owners prefer them over you because let's say these foreigners are less xenophobic / open-minded?
Anyway, you can always do the other way around and move to Berlin or Mumbai. I am sure you will find Hindus who would love to have an American architect and show him like a trophy.
And don't forget that, specially in NYC firms, without projects in Germany or India, the unemployment rate would be much higher.
Thanks for pointing out that this is four years old.....I about shit just thinking about some kid that has no experience got a job this sweet while it slipped through my fingers. I havent heard of a deal like this in quite a while. I'm 90% sure generative_monkey is looking again.
I didn't read any of the other posts, so if my answer is the same as others, I apologize in advance.
If you got an offer to work at an architecture firm in this economy, that's over 30K, then TAKE IT.
Health + Dental is just icing on the cake.
There are so many out there , that would take that job for much much less. I know people who are even working for free!
Yes, the cost of living in NYC is high, but if you don't live in Manahattan and budget wisely it can be done. Not everyone in NYC makes over 80K, and plenty survive. Besides, once you have a few years under your belt and the economy slowly recovers, then you can command a higher salary and better firms.
Jakethesnake. This posting is an ancient relique of a world that no longer exists. I will probably read this to my grandchildren as if it were a far away land where people would actually get paid to create places to live work and play.
"Nobody ever pays me in gum" :(
was about to get bummed till i realized this was from 2006!!!
the "advantage" of living in manhattan is OVER-RATED!, even people that were born and raised in the city will tell you that. once you get on the train, it doesnt matter whether you live in queens or the lower east side of manhattan. it will take you almost the same amount of time/effort to get to the middle.... plus you wont get mugged like all the sex and city girls do in the upper east side if you live in a nice part of queens.
This is the problem with the way this site is run. A four year old thread. Yeah, that's relevant.
i think whiners are whats wrong with the site.
This thread is like a dream.
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