Hi all! Here is my short story.
I dolt with 3d graphics for about tree years till 2000. I worked as a visualisator for big architectural place. I liked my job a lot, but enforced to leave this area. Nowadays I recognize the new opportunity to get in. But you, people, know, five years in this industry is a very very long period. So a lot of tools changed, the new tools added. I need the advise about the software.
I intend to deal with architectural visualization (interior, mostly, but exterior too), and with industrial design.
The are lots of exelent tools on the market. But the prices......
For one who are begining and can't invest so much money....
The second problem is that if I buy for example 3D Studio - this program does allow to obtain good results. But this is only with the plugins such as VRay or Brazil. As a modeller.....I didn't like it.
I get closer to my point. I choose the Rhino as a modeller. I think this decision is solid. It coasts about 800 US buck. It is good price and strong abilities. But what about the render? Here is my problem.
I tried to check Flamingo. It isn't so good. It is slow, and the trial version that they supplay isn't work correct (they released the SR4 nowadays, but you can't to dowload it for evaluation version, it demands serial key). Even I just don't know how to handle the radiosity in this program, - they don't supplay any good tutorials about interior ligthening.
I've read your discussion about renders here at your site.
1) May be somebody can to redirect me to the places on interner to get this kind of tutorials?
2)If no - do you think I should wait till VRay or Brazil will be released this (2006) year? Which one will be better?
I plan to purchase tools at october-november 2006. So I have almost one year. What can you advise?
May be exists some good stand-alone renderer an I don't know about him?
What do you think, will McNeel close the Flamingo or will develope it?
Look for Stand Alone releases of Final Render and Vray soon, surely by your deadline. This will allow you to model in almost any program and render in the plugin.
There should be no problem using one of these with Rhino. I, too, dislike Max as a modeler.
For now, you can look into Rhino and Brazil, which should be out soon.
Also consider Cinema 4D and Lightwave, both are on par with Max but offer modular purchasing, so you don't have to spend much if you don't need the extras (something Max will have to do soon). Maybe even Softimage and Maya, although there seems to be a better community for arch viz in Cinema (look at www.cgarchitect.com)
May be I don't understand something but I always thought tha t plugins are the modules that are installed into the existing programs and have not their own independent interface. As you say, Trace,"Look for Stand Alone releases of Final Render and Vray soon, surely by your deadline. This will allow you to model in almost any program and render in the plugin.". So, you call the Stand-Alone programs as plug-in(s). Am I wrong in my understanding of the terms?
I think trace just called them plug-ins because till recently they were very much integrated into max or whatever.
the move to stand alone apps makes it easier to support the increasing number of modeling programs. rather than integrate the engine into the interface and material editors of a dozen different programs, they build their own material editors and rendering controls in the stand-alone app, and then all the plug in has to do is export the geometry and (maybe) a few other parameters. Some of them don't even need that...they'll take a dxf or obj or other standard format as input.
Next Limit already released stand-alone version of its Maxwell renderer (although still in development). When it comes to modeling and rendering Maya is quite unbeatable-it has Mental Ray and (for quite some time) scheduled releases of VRay and FinalRender,
that's debatable if Maya is a great modeler. For characters and blobs, sure, but for regular architecture? Not really (most of the 3D packages aren't).
I'd suggest staying away from Mental Ray for arch viz, just too cumbersome, slow (unless you are a guru working in HWood), and expensive.
I would also hold off until Maxwell is proven. So far, and from reading yesterday's news about the release, it doesn't sound promising.
You can always download demos, but in my opinion, you can't really know anything without spending a few weeks playing and learning, so one tutorial could really mislead you (i.e. making blobs versus testing the boolean operations, etc., etc.).
From every 3d forum that I checked, the buzz around maxwell being the next big thing in rendering is falling fast and violently. The "release" they have published seems to be a completely different program from the betas. It looks like they gave up on implementing the renders times and have tried a completely different approach that is far away from the already existing plug ins. Stay away from it.
I would recommend finalRender stage-0 ($95), it is really good renderer software but it is a shame that there are almost no tutorials for it. So I switched to Vray, because its not only really good, it is also very popular and has a pretty large community and support.
There were tons of tutorials for Stage-0! I have no idea where they are, but there were.
I highly recommend upgrading to Stage 1. I've not installed the Service Pack 3 that was just released (scared to in the middle of projects), but it looks really nice! It's well worth the $$ imho.
I'll report on the Vray for Rhino progress, yesterday they moved from Beta to release candidate so they are getting close to a final release. The RC could still use some work in the material browsing/ creating but in the limited time I've had to play with it seems stable and fast with excellent results. I think the final price is going to be around $1000 but they have a early order special for half that.
This is a plug-in not a stand alone, I think it's the first non-Max plug-in they have made, I think a plug-in for SketchUp is next and then they might start on the stand alone version.
I'm with Trace on the Final Render Stage-1 wagon. Not only is it accurate, it also handes H U G E scenes very well which comes in handy for us lead-footed modelers.
Form-Z is a great arch modeling program... though it's rendering package has fallen on its face compared to what's out now
One thing I actually like about the idea of a plugin vs. standalone, I hate exporting and importing the model. That's why I've started modeling in MAX (I use Vray). Importing takes a lot of time and there are almost always complications. It's never a linear process (clients re-design frequently) so you end up doing it several times over the course of a project, each time re-applying materials and mapping co-ordinates, etc. There are workflows that can help this, modeling by layer and what not but if I have the option of rendering in my modeling environment vs. exporting to another application for rendering, I'd rather render in my modeling software. This is also useful for setting up preliminary lighting and previews, exporting and applying materials to a model you know is not done just to render a preview is quite dis-heartening.
Another thing to think about with some of these programs is their compatability with the drafting software your clients use. In my case 99% of it is coming from autocad, max and rhino are both pretty much seamless with autocad, something to think about if you're looking at other programs. Some of the hollywood stuff isn't intended for architects or arch-viz so it doesn't always support the tools we need.
May 3, 06 9:43 pm ·
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3D Hesitations
Hi all! Here is my short story.
I dolt with 3d graphics for about tree years till 2000. I worked as a visualisator for big architectural place. I liked my job a lot, but enforced to leave this area. Nowadays I recognize the new opportunity to get in. But you, people, know, five years in this industry is a very very long period. So a lot of tools changed, the new tools added. I need the advise about the software.
I intend to deal with architectural visualization (interior, mostly, but exterior too), and with industrial design.
The are lots of exelent tools on the market. But the prices......
For one who are begining and can't invest so much money....
The second problem is that if I buy for example 3D Studio - this program does allow to obtain good results. But this is only with the plugins such as VRay or Brazil. As a modeller.....I didn't like it.
I get closer to my point. I choose the Rhino as a modeller. I think this decision is solid. It coasts about 800 US buck. It is good price and strong abilities. But what about the render? Here is my problem.
I tried to check Flamingo. It isn't so good. It is slow, and the trial version that they supplay isn't work correct (they released the SR4 nowadays, but you can't to dowload it for evaluation version, it demands serial key). Even I just don't know how to handle the radiosity in this program, - they don't supplay any good tutorials about interior ligthening.
I've read your discussion about renders here at your site.
1) May be somebody can to redirect me to the places on interner to get this kind of tutorials?
2)If no - do you think I should wait till VRay or Brazil will be released this (2006) year? Which one will be better?
I plan to purchase tools at october-november 2006. So I have almost one year. What can you advise?
May be exists some good stand-alone renderer an I don't know about him?
What do you think, will McNeel close the Flamingo or will develope it?
sorry for my English...
how about free?
the software blender.org
examples of the possibilities
It is worth to test it deeply. At the first glance it is looking good enough. Thank you, hues!
Look for Stand Alone releases of Final Render and Vray soon, surely by your deadline. This will allow you to model in almost any program and render in the plugin.
There should be no problem using one of these with Rhino. I, too, dislike Max as a modeler.
For now, you can look into Rhino and Brazil, which should be out soon.
Also consider Cinema 4D and Lightwave, both are on par with Max but offer modular purchasing, so you don't have to spend much if you don't need the extras (something Max will have to do soon). Maybe even Softimage and Maya, although there seems to be a better community for arch viz in Cinema (look at www.cgarchitect.com)
May be I don't understand something but I always thought tha t plugins are the modules that are installed into the existing programs and have not their own independent interface. As you say, Trace,"Look for Stand Alone releases of Final Render and Vray soon, surely by your deadline. This will allow you to model in almost any program and render in the plugin.". So, you call the Stand-Alone programs as plug-in(s). Am I wrong in my understanding of the terms?
I think trace just called them plug-ins because till recently they were very much integrated into max or whatever.
the move to stand alone apps makes it easier to support the increasing number of modeling programs. rather than integrate the engine into the interface and material editors of a dozen different programs, they build their own material editors and rendering controls in the stand-alone app, and then all the plug in has to do is export the geometry and (maybe) a few other parameters. Some of them don't even need that...they'll take a dxf or obj or other standard format as input.
what manamana said
Thank you, friends. I must say that your forum seems friendly in the comparisson with many others on internet. Thank you again!
Next Limit already released stand-alone version of its Maxwell renderer (although still in development). When it comes to modeling and rendering Maya is quite unbeatable-it has Mental Ray and (for quite some time) scheduled releases of VRay and FinalRender,
that's debatable if Maya is a great modeler. For characters and blobs, sure, but for regular architecture? Not really (most of the 3D packages aren't).
I'd suggest staying away from Mental Ray for arch viz, just too cumbersome, slow (unless you are a guru working in HWood), and expensive.
I would also hold off until Maxwell is proven. So far, and from reading yesterday's news about the release, it doesn't sound promising.
You can always download demos, but in my opinion, you can't really know anything without spending a few weeks playing and learning, so one tutorial could really mislead you (i.e. making blobs versus testing the boolean operations, etc., etc.).
From every 3d forum that I checked, the buzz around maxwell being the next big thing in rendering is falling fast and violently. The "release" they have published seems to be a completely different program from the betas. It looks like they gave up on implementing the renders times and have tried a completely different approach that is far away from the already existing plug ins. Stay away from it.
original software? wow!
heard of something called WAREZ! :)
I would recommend finalRender stage-0 ($95), it is really good renderer software but it is a shame that there are almost no tutorials for it. So I switched to Vray, because its not only really good, it is also very popular and has a pretty large community and support.
There were tons of tutorials for Stage-0! I have no idea where they are, but there were.
I highly recommend upgrading to Stage 1. I've not installed the Service Pack 3 that was just released (scared to in the middle of projects), but it looks really nice! It's well worth the $$ imho.
I'll report on the Vray for Rhino progress, yesterday they moved from Beta to release candidate so they are getting close to a final release. The RC could still use some work in the material browsing/ creating but in the limited time I've had to play with it seems stable and fast with excellent results. I think the final price is going to be around $1000 but they have a early order special for half that.
This is a plug-in not a stand alone, I think it's the first non-Max plug-in they have made, I think a plug-in for SketchUp is next and then they might start on the stand alone version.
I'm with Trace on the Final Render Stage-1 wagon. Not only is it accurate, it also handes H U G E scenes very well which comes in handy for us lead-footed modelers.
Form-Z is a great arch modeling program... though it's rendering package has fallen on its face compared to what's out now
good luck
One thing I actually like about the idea of a plugin vs. standalone, I hate exporting and importing the model. That's why I've started modeling in MAX (I use Vray). Importing takes a lot of time and there are almost always complications. It's never a linear process (clients re-design frequently) so you end up doing it several times over the course of a project, each time re-applying materials and mapping co-ordinates, etc. There are workflows that can help this, modeling by layer and what not but if I have the option of rendering in my modeling environment vs. exporting to another application for rendering, I'd rather render in my modeling software. This is also useful for setting up preliminary lighting and previews, exporting and applying materials to a model you know is not done just to render a preview is quite dis-heartening.
Another thing to think about with some of these programs is their compatability with the drafting software your clients use. In my case 99% of it is coming from autocad, max and rhino are both pretty much seamless with autocad, something to think about if you're looking at other programs. Some of the hollywood stuff isn't intended for architects or arch-viz so it doesn't always support the tools we need.
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