mmhh they, we, us r suposed to be (when young) more easily to shape and to be controlled by the requirements and taste of ur boss

still i never got that feeling that age was important....maybe for some kind of jobs, but not the ones i had

i think madianito has it exactly. they want young flesh to mold and shape...and maybe they also want to be sure you have no familial responsibilities so they can pay you shite and slave you out on the weekends.

i have seen such requirements in the bigger (and most boring) offices here as well but it has never come up for any job i have wanted. hell i didn't even finish grad school til i was 31. nah as far as i can tell the older you get the better you get. look at zaha. slightly interesting as a youth and totally amazing lately.

anyway any company that decides you suck because your 32 is a waste of time.

young = cheap

The younger someone is, the less likely they'll expect more money.

Ummmm, I don't think it's legal in the US to specify an age requirement for a job, is it?!?

That being said, trace hit it - young = cheap. And employees w/o a family have far more hours to be in the office.

Hmm, I'm supposedly totally employable in Europe. Interesting.

Yeah I've never once seen an age requirement for a job here in the USA. If anything I have to pretend I'm older so I don't get shafted on the responsibilities.

yes ... my wife is in an emploment law class right now and age is a protected thing... they are not allowed to ask you how old you are.

as for the question i echo the others...young = cheap. you specify under 30 b/c you know they will work ridiculous hours at no pay. they usually aren't married...or with children so they just have to deal with living expenses...insurance is dirt cheap for healthy people under 35...

hey my first job in 1994 (interning for school credit) was $5/hr... man was i stupid!!

yeah, my first job in architecture -- at 19 -- was minimum wage. but i have to agree with myriam, i have to downplay my age (28) in order to seem somewhat respectable and knowledgeable even though that first job was nine years ago...it helps that i dress like i'm 70

people think i look younger than i am. they only think i'm forty.

I started (and am about to leave) my first architecture related job (not with an architect, but doing "architecture")...after a B.Design, not a pro-degree....

I took this particular position, rather than a typical internship, for a number of reasons, including:

-more responsibility
-more opportunity
-better pay*
-heavy influence in all design related decisions
-involvement in the conceptual stages of a project.
-atypical chance to brand a "product" and develop a company's image


* I bring this up because I am about to leave this job and have already accepted an internship with a well respected, design oriented corporate firm in Florida. This new position will pay less than my current job does, but more than if I had taken a similar internship straight outta school. By spending 5-6 months working on the periphery of the industry for someone in the position to offer better compensation, I have elevated my salary base by a few grand...rather than settling for what everyone else got by fresh out of undergrad.

now, money certainly isn't everything. Another plus is that by first having a job with a higher level of responsibility and therefore a greater influence on the "final" product, I enter my internship not as an inexperienced peon (which I am), but as someone who has had a good degree of responsibility given to them, who has directed aspects of a project etc...

I don't know about Europe but in my past I've skirted the age question. Still do to an extent. Owners/contractors look at me and see that I'm not in my 50's and automatically think I don't know as much. Certinaly with age comes experience, but when I got my BArch at 22 years I had already learned much by 25 - but didn't have my gray hair from stress yet. Now it's coming in nicely, just a tick under thirty too.

I'd expect most firms are always looking to hire younger employees because the management level employees don't have near the turn over. For interns, cad techs and all the underlings people switch employers quite often. When we loose a 25 year old intern we don't replace her with a 45 year old sr. architect.

A: hear, hear about the 25 bit. I still have a lot to learn, but I can definitely handle the projects I'm running--but if my clients knew my age, they'd be upset, without reason. The contractor finally found out and a momentary look of distrust flashed across his face, but then he recovered (I think he thought, wait a minute, I know she can handle this, I guess age doesn't always matter) and sure enough he's now feeding me projects on the side.

About the second paragraph in your response though... when you lose an intern, you simply advertise for an intern position available; the intern himself may be 25, or 65; age is irrelevant to level of position. Just sayin'. I mean yeah, more internship positions are available than sr. arch., but that doesn't have anything to do with an employment age requirement.

Older people have kids and bills and spouses and new cars and bills and bills.

wow ... what an interesting thread .. and one that is so foreign to my own experience

any firm worth it's salt isn't going to pay a lot of attention ONLY to age ... if a firm is really interested in building a solid staff, then it's going to look a) 1st ... what can this person do; b) 2nd ... what's the cost; and c) 3rd ... does that relationship represent a good value

i don't care a bit about a person's age ... i only care about what their capabilities are and does that person have the capacity to fill a useful role in our firm ...

i do care about cost, but only to the extent the value meets or exceeds that cost ... we don't run a charity, but we don't run a sweatshop either ... in the end, the employment relationship has to be equitable to both parties

young does not = cheap ... young designers who don't care and who make a lot of mistakes can be terribly, terribly expensive ... the same is true of older designers

It is kind of a downer to think that in less than two years, I'll be too "old" to get a job.

Same goes for me. I'm 28 years old, I have a 15 month old daughter, I’m still in college (graduate) and have no working experience in architecture. How am I suppose to get a job as a 31 year old family man without experience. I don't mind getting an entry level job, but they always want a 20 year old un-parent kid living in a studio apartment. I am so screwed.

no worries pete. my buddy was nearly 40 when he finished grad school and is working for a rather interesting starchitect in the states as a project architect...

I think they also expect younger people to have better technical skills than older people, because young people had a chance to learn cad and 3d and graphics stuff while they were in school and could get help with it. Old guys often had to teach themselves, and in my experience, are a step (or sometimes many steps) behind in that regard. So many of these jobs might want people to produce either CD's or beautiful competition boards/presentation boards/other graphic stuff at a very fast pace, and they don't feel they can expect that from older self-taught people.

i agree with quizzical - don't become fixated on age - focus on what you actually can do - make a case that is tied to your capabilities and your ability to contribute

we see candidates come through all the time who have returned to school after trying another line of work for a while -- when we look at those candidates, we assess what they can do, compared to other recent graduates, then we factor in some additional compensation to reflect life experience and maturity, both of which are worth something in an office.

however, we don't (and cannot) pay a 40-year old with two years of design office experience the same compensation we would pay a 40-year old designer who has been working in a design firm since age 25. but, we are inclined to pay the 40-year old with two years of design firm experience moderately more than a 27 year old with two years of design experience

does that make sense ?

rationalist, dude, computers ain't THAT new.

i am one of those self taught old-farts and i am STILL teaching the kids in the office and at school how to use the software and do cds.

think about how long it takes just to get through school. then there's idp and are, building up a network of clients and colleagues, and then just gaining a level of trust from your clients. creating a building is a serious thing, and the image of maturity will always inspire more confidence.

I have never seen an job list age, and frankly if you do see one, I think they should be reported to whatever agency (state labor I think) over sees that. It seems that the profession of architecture thrives on walking on the backs of its youth...which is dispicable in my opinion. We as the working class (and yes even with a masters, you're working class when your someones b*tch) need to demand more from the employers. We are the lowest paid "profession" and for some reason more content to b*tch about it than to fight back.

Here are some translated openings all seeking young employees or express themselves as a young firm.

OPL architects. Operative in the complete Netherlands. , But also small bldg. on all possible locations devise large multipurpose complexes. Makes both offices and industrial buildings and shopping centres, schools and appartementen-complexen. OPL stand for skill discretion and experience, also in project accompaniment. But weet that to combine with creativity and drang to renewal. Always the office strives for a conceptual approach, which leads to powerful and clear bldg.. That measurable perform, something add to the surroundings and continue captivate. We zoeken by directly ASSISTENT-ONTWERPER. Function: You are as an assistant designer responsible for developing and giving full details designs of colleague architects, in both utiliteitsbouw and house construction. Your activities lie especially at the stage of DO, but sometimes also assist you at REGULATION. You cooperate in project teams with several architects, project LEADERS and bouwkundigen. Moreover have you external contacts with governments and construction partners. Profile: - some years experience as an assistant designer - fast decision maker in design questions - team player - communicatively and independent - experience with Arkey and/or VectorWorks - age 30 up to 35 years.


Finn-Logs devise and provide already more than 25 years exclusive, natural houses and other projects of top class, both in battery construction and in skeleton construction. Our main point is quality in the most broad sense of the word and in every respect. This means that we occupy consciously our with the durable Bouwen", where wood and glass form the basis material. Our construction system is environment-friendly, and gives an optimum social climate. Finn-Logs devise mainly for private constituents. Our team needs a young, dynamic architectural draughtsman with MTS/hts engineering, sufficient experience and an independent posture. We zoeken someone who is completely trusted with the CAD signs, where experience with the ARC + system our preference has. He/they must be able turn ontwerpschetsen and these to develop into specifications and working plans. Beside the sign work, it is expected that one good contacts weet to maintain with all people concerned within the construction process. An environmentally aware vision and a special affection with wood are large pré. Given the composition of our team, we think of a person between 25 and 40 years young with sufficient insight, motivation and a pleasant character. If this advertisement addresses you, we let us face your application gladly asap. Preferably handwritten a letter with passport photo, to aim to: Finn-Logs e.g. regarding mevr. D.M.Wijffelaars Idsteinlaan 15 5252BJ Vlijmen e-mail: info@finn-logs.nl Internet site: www.finn-logs.nl




Architectural draughtsman category: Work offered Description Architectural firm Oomen Havermans Waltjen Ltd in breda is a modern office with about 35 YOUNG enthusiastic employees. The office has acquired a strong position and large expertise in the utiliteitsbouw, particularly in the field of the health care. Concerning increase of the activities, we are in search of ARCHITECTURAL DRAUGHTSMAN for 40 hours per week. Training MTS or HTS engineering. Affinity with AutoCAD and an in-depth knowledge of the construction decision are a requirement. The activities will exist from independent developing projects. The salariëring is according to the collective labour agreement for architectural firms. Contact information Contact: Architects and engineer office Oomen Havermans Waltjen Ltd office/Office: Place: ulvenhoutselaan 79,4834 MD breda NB Tel.: 076-5602255 e-mail: G.ansems@ohwarchitecten.nl Internet site: http://www.ohwarchitecten.nl

Pete consider this: AGE = MONEY EARNED...25 years=25$$...35yrs=35$$...GOT the connection?

Lud ... "AGE = MONEY EARNED" ... oh, please ... that is the worst possible rule-of-thumb ... money earned is a function of real productivity

caffienejunkie: "It seems that the profession of architecture thrives on walking on the backs of its youth..." ... oh, please ... if this is what you believe, then you better have a serious conversation with your university, because "its youth" come out of school, to a very large degree, unable to deliver very much productivity ... firms spend years completing the work started by the universities.

it is true that we are the lowest paid profession except for accountants, but you are making a mistake if you heap all of the blame for that on your employers ... they are as poorly paid (on a relative experience level) as are you ... the main issue here is low fees and low productivity ... not some evil conspiracy by "the man" to keep you down

oh, please ...

distant...I was(in a way) joking about it, but in europe it's like this...If u have 26 yrs old, then your contractor knows that u only want to work for experience and some money, but if u have 35 yrs old, u want more, in order to buy a car, buy a house...But let's not make a fuzz about it, age is experience, and that's what u have to be paid!

Congratulations on your achievement, jump. Recognize that you are the exception, not the rule.

what a drag it is...getting old.

it's illegal in NZ for an employer to discriminate based on age.
you can't legally advertise a position for someone of a certain age.

of course it is wrong to discriminate here in the U.S....
however, if you think about it...people with more seniority are in higher positions, make more, and are FEWER are usually older...

consequently the other side is true...the majority of the people are needed to do CD work...(otherwise known as grunt work). this is usually a lower paid, lower position and high turnover position.

SO naturally, there are going to be people that are looking for the position that they need more of and have a higher turnover.

there is at every firm a glass ceiling in a sense because they most likely (unless very large) can't just keep adding people to the partnership track. at some point they have to add more to the bottom and by virtue of the glass ceiling force some people out.

is this wrong...or just the way it HAS to be...not trying to keep the young down, just business.

it's because your roof gets leaky and rotten after about 25 years.

i sometimes dress like i'm about 7 years old, so people think i'm about 99 years old.

why yes, my toes do stick out of the socks, and the pants are mighty uncomfy.

craziest (i hope) ad i saw recently: 3 yrs exper required for arch "internship"

"WTF?"

only if the 65 yo has been comatose for 40 years.

yeah. once i use an app for a little, i end up tutoring other people. That's true of acad, though i've used it only in classes.

brian jones didn't get old. :-)

it's called practice for a reason ... i think age (and experience) add value ... not the other way around, as has been suggested elsewhere here

god, i sure hope 30 doesn't mark the start of my own decline ... i feel like i'm just starting to know how to do a thing or two

bald and white beard...no hiding my age so I work for my self. Well actually for my wife and dogs otherwise I would be reading books and
sculpting.

young equals cheap (said before) but the younger crowd has the computer knowledge (in general).

i have a sneaking suspicion (enforced by some loose tounges at our end of year party) that our firm employs young people because it makes the boss man feel like its a dynamic, happening, cutting edge place.

if it "feels like a dynamic, happening, cutting edge place" ... maybe it is just that

tim duncan doesn't age...