yeah that struck me as the worng move. i don't know... gotta think about it more.

...or more like a wrong suggestion

thankfully, this solution seems about as feasible as it is logical.

I'm not sure about the feasibility of the idea, because I'm not that current with the ever changing circumstances in the battle. But the articles suggestion seems to carry a tone and tambour in stark contrast to space and personality SCI-Arc seems to foster and create.

i.e.. "If it were exceptionally successful, it could offer a generational counterpoint to Walt Disney Concert Hall..."

Maybe it's just me, but as an incoming student I'd rather not be used as some kind of contrast to justify Gehry reflective brilliance.

the critic really just reveals the extent to which he doesn't "get" the whole LA scene and SCI-Arc in particular... even at its most formalist, SCI-Arc has always been about context/texture in a way that is alien to the objects that dot Grand Street.

i'm going to play devil's advocate. while this may not be THE BEST idea, the writer is doing something impt > brainstorming. from everything i've read sciarc needs help, needs ideas, and needs a plan. they need to stop hanging on by their fingernails to a cause that sounds futile.

the writer is thinking ahead, toward the day when sciarc's case is in the crapper and they need to push on. there will have to be an awful lot of brainstorming - and brainstorming usually works best when no one is allowed to say 'no' until a bevy of sometimes ludicrous-sounding ideas are on the table for everyone's perusal.

maybe this one idea - totally out of left field - is useful as a step on the path to a better idea for sciarc? maybe it's even, in some form, the germ of something which could work well? one thing about which i'm fairly confident: sciarc's architects' club is going to have to team up with outsiders, listening and weighing the merits of their ideas.

as much as i appreciate the ethos that sciarc fosters toward rejecting convention, i have to agree with steven...not much is helping from within sciarc. EOM's lack of negotiating prowess has forced the school into reconsidering how they go about rejecting convention. in a lot of ways this is very endemic of a whole recent history of punk. punk rejects convention only in so much as it is a disassociated mass evacuation of all convention, but what happens when punk becomes an institution in and of itself, its own convention. is it selling out to try and negotiate space to exist? or is selling out a lack of imagination in how you negotiate that space. i.e. is commercialism an inherently evil activity or is it the lack of imagination applied to it that creates the banality of it....how can you commercialize to justify your own existence within the capitalist economic system? or is that a self-destructive question to even be forced to ask for an institution based on the rejection of convention.

Steven,

Yes you're right. Objectivity can be valuable and virtuous to have in your quiver at a time of need. But any solution that appears will dig the soul out of SCi-Arc seems far more than ludicrous, it seems like a cultural death wish.

Not to be overly fatalistic, because i haven't taken class one yet. But this "cause that sounds futile" will have a direct and lasting effect on my education and those that care to follow.

From my limited perspective, ideas and solutions do seem to be in short supply and are needed more than ever. Perhaps ideas such as this one provided to us by the LA Times do more to solidify what SCI-Arc really is and where it really belongs. Thanks Mr. Hawthorne.

didn't sciarc once function in temporary structures in a parking lot? really, this crisis is bad but not something which rings a death knell for the program.

if the leaders of the program can come up with a next step as crazy and challenging as some from its past history, this turf-wars episode will soon be just another of the legends to bolster sciarc's anti-establishment self-image.

corroding a slick new commercial development from the inside could be a potential next step...

i dont know how i feel about the writer's idea to relocate to that particular neighborhood, though the solution of the state/county donating the land is a good sounding option. I agree with SW that some new ideas need to be considered.

how about the LA river site? isn't that publicly owned? now that would be ground breaking. they could locate the new campus...right across from the old campus - ideally, overlooking the site. ha ha.

...One problem with the donation solution: I believe a significant part of many school's net wealth lies in owning real estate property (ex: NYU). Merely acting as a 'tenant' would never add to the school's virtual wealth, i can only imagine that this might be a problem in the future, not to mention that the school would, yet again, be a tenant. Is it legally feasible for the city to have the school sign a 'free lease for eternity'?

Bingo. I would much rather pay to go to school in tent, then buddy up with some development scheme to bolster department store sales or be one ride down on a Disney tour. Call me punk, but let's pitch a tent.

if sciarc had any balls it would move to detroit. there is plenty of room on fort street.

Thw wrong man is in charge to lead them out of this mess - that is the primary reason the future looks dim. I am worried about the future of the neighborhood SCI-Arc is in after they get the boot - the proposed 50 story luxury apartments are going to entirely ruin the character of the artists disctrict.

ps. aniowan, I think after a semester in the tent, buddying up with a developer will look like the light at the end of the tunnel - from my experience.

In my simple mindiness the situation sounds like more than a mess its a "cluster fuck".... everybody has done just enough or too little enough to completely screw up the whole school by the sounds of it. I pity all the current students and those who thought it might be a good place to go. Although they don't teach things like this in school its important to stay away from certain clients / jobs when the situation surrounding it is just too screwed up. Those involved should be shamed, blamed and embarassed. They sound petty and childish.

whistler I feel like you may not really understand (or have) all the information. or you are just biased against the school. you 'pity all the current students'??

as Steven said, this isn't a life or death matter for the school. as a student who could potentially go there, or to another program I will still be going to sci-arc regardless of the outcome.

think whatever everyone may, i would say that being on Grand Avenue would actually do good for SCIARC. i had friends in sciarc when it was in the trailers, and i have to say, at that time they all thought it was a piece of shit. People keep complaining about the existing building also.

I know there are a lot of sciarc veterans on archinect etc, but i really think that sciarc could mature very well on a grand avenue type place. Sure the place would become a bit more commercialized but im sure everyone would appreciate better studios etc.

I don't know how many here were there when we were all in the tent. But wasn't it told to us that we had at least began to purchase the building when the skeleton of the freight yard was dolled up? And just a few weeks ago, I read that the school is paying $80K a month as RENT?? If I remember correctly from the numerous all school meetings we had, the rent at the MDR site was set at $40K a month for the next 10-15 years (@2000).

Bad faith aside from those troubled times of school closing everyday and the 'tent', SCI-Arc has always functioned out of a frugal shack and it was the wealth of intellectual ideas of the instructors and students that made things ticked. Without sounding off like a genetic fallacy, I really don't know how and when the 'permanence', 'sitedness', or forgive me, genius loci became imperative over and started consuming the minds of leaders and students there alike.

While many may think that SCI-Arc always has a proclivity with near-death experience, this is by far to my knowledge and experience at the school to be the worst type of near-death. To think that resources are now being devoted to keeping a shell and wasted on court battles while the spirit is allowed to starve to death seems like a very bad idea to me.


That said, there is nothing wrong with brainstorming as what the LA times columnist has done. If there is one caveat, it sounds too utopian to me with too many conflicting interests at work on Grand. SCI-Arc has always been identified with that unpolished edginess that made it unique over other design schools and I don't know if it will sit well with new Rodeo drive. This does not mean that it cannot change. But such a 'self-image' change should be navigated very carefully and given that all resources are now devoted to fight with developers, it is indeed a bad moment for such a deliberation.

Trust me, Steve, the functioning out of a parking lot was as forced as it was unnecessary if they had handled things responsibly. It was probably the most unproductive period of the school where we were all advised to call in to make sure the school was not closed for the day by city officials due to code violations. No students, no matter how avant garde, should endure this type of treatment in the name of any stated form of IDEALISTIC goal (i.e. the permanent shell). Especially when it is now known that the school was still being rented.

can any of you imagine any other active dean/director allowing such a mess to build up? seriously, can any of you imagine stern, wigley, or allen (to name a very few) watching their ship sink? not likely.

time to make the captain walk the plank...ARRRR!!!

every program seems to have some inexcusable ills.

has the instability of the physicality been balanced by fantastic learning/student environment?

There is no need to become personal on this matter. For an institution that influential, it is highly unlikely that one person gets to steer the whole ship by himself. In my own opinion, the sinking started years ago and together with a number of self-propelled entanglements made it very challenging for whoever that is in charged, be it stern, wigley, or allen to untangle it. Nevertheless, it is futile to go on tracing the root cause of all these.

Geno is probably right that every program has some sort of inexcusable ills. That said, some ills are more insidious in some contexts than ills in others. For example, GSD has lost most of its research funding in design. The question is so what since it has never been at the forefront of design research anyway. The same cannot be said of MIT media labs. Now if our topic is SCI-Arc, the instability of the physicality may count alot towards providing a fantastic environment for the student since this is all the student has. Remember that SCI-Arc is a microcosm in itself and you cannot seek refuge in another department while the developers next door is plunking down their foundation for a 50 storey tower. While a romantic 'permanence' may not be necessary, the least SCI-Arc has always provided is a searchlight intensity into matters of design and finding a position within the discourse of design and architecture.

Thinking a little deeper, I am beginning to disagree with the LA times columnist that this can be a great learning experience for students designing their own school and the retail environment within the parcel 'kindly' donated by nice billionaires and city officials. The objective part of any real design experience has always been finding out where the problem is and setting the problem itself, not being handed an envelope and then designing from there. If this come to pass, this will be the greatest mistake the school will ever make. We have failed with the quarter mile long building, let's not do this again.

seriously, bring it to detroit and call it DI-Arc.

word.

SCI_Arc needs a home!. moving to Grand Ave would be a great idea. Say all you want about SCI_Arc's histroy, and what it should represent...bla, bla, bla avent garde my ass. Here is the fact. the present site is dead!!, the lectures and exibits are "open to the public" but the only ppl that go are students and alumini. how helpful is that? Architecture needs to reach out to public. moving to Grand ave would put us on center stage. thats a good thing! SCI_Arc can still be inovative and cutting ede next door to Bloomindales. Are you saying that you can't work in studio if you have to look at the suits pass by in the window? goign to school next to MOCA, Concert hall, and thousands of residents is way more exiciting than going to Fucking Groundworks, Metropol, ZIP and.........uh, I guess thats all thats at 3rd street now, right?

SCI_Arc needs to stop jerking off at home and go out and get laid.

Yeah, let's move to Grand St. Koo Koo Roo is the shit....

Message to any incoming SCI-Arcers.
3rd Street sucks.
Pray that they move. Anywhere.

Detroit would be the safe option... If SCI_Arc really wanted to be edgy, they'd go to Flint. FI_Arc.

its about time! finally some promising voices speak up...
as a future sci-arc student i am excited to see whatever lies ahead for the school's destiny because i know they will not make a shemp decsion and turn over such a great program yet. for all the incoming students we should be grateful because all the controversy should be interesting and educational experience for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (sorry if im being patriotic its about 330 am and im gettin in from a long night and ive heard enough bs about my future school.)

"SCI_Arc needs to stop jerking off at home and go out and get laid."

Good point

Maybe we can go rent a space at "conjunctive points". I work across the street on Jefferson! How convenient!? Westside? Eastside? Who cares? Just make the school better and permanent for God's sake. How much longer can this ship keep afloat? And... we are supposed to do summer thesis next year??? I'd seriously consider transfering to Woodbury's M.ArchRed program down in San Diego, if there is a building relocation or tent thing again...

Maybe Gary Paige and Coy Howard can draw something up and present it to the developers.

They should re-name the school SCI-Amateurland.

SOO...

What's happening to Sci-arc come september? Are there classes or not?

When must the school move? In a year, in 2 years etc?

What is going on with regard to the immediate future of the school?

ohh chill out people, this prob will not be felt for years to come, sorry no tent this year.....

hell, yeah I wanna see the beautiful shoppers passing by the new metal shop being scared to hell by the torches and fumes and say 'what in the world's cookin here'

GRIT IS GOOD

grit within (and contrasting with) polished metal and glass is better

thriller: (what's up brother!? :D)
dude, we'd be jerkin' off on grand avenue as well... think about it: you've seen the daytime downtown LA crowd: businesspeople and tourists (and even more homeless), you want sci-arc to get its dick wet with that bunch?

spaceman: i just about pissed myself laughing at the Gary Paige/Coy Howard idea [no disrespect to coy howard though, i'd like to hear his thoughts on the subject of sci-arc's preferred "physicality"]

anybody: if you've ever spent even a minute having a "discussion" with eric moss... you'll realize that compromise and agreement are not in his nature. i'd pity even the serpent in the garden trying to strike a deal with moss.

future: what the fuck do we need a home for? (sci-arc) to settle down? what, are we raising a family? and if we are, why the hell do it in downtown LA? i pray the deal for the lots blows up in our face and we're forced to take flight!
keep it movin! like all the other shelterless denizens of DTLA. we're in a (former) freight depot now, maybe it's time to unearth some of those train tracks in the parking lot and head down the rails... what would it cost to buy and equip our own train?! there are still tracks connecting every part of this continent to the other. we're not stuck here to fight or die for some stupid piece of concrete, or some bullshit ideal that sci-arc is going to "save" downtown LA.
[whatever, i'm out of breath for this rant... time for a fresh beer]

I have to say, having lived through the move downtown. getting flooded every time it rained and watching out for the rats that would come looking for everyone's dropped potato chips wasn't the greatest situation in the world. i would really like to know exactly what the straight deal was on the depot. i really wonder what happened between denari's ousting and moss's claiming of the throne. I know that there was a very specific deal that was worked out (if memory serves me right, we rolled the amount we got from selling off our lease on the MDR building into purchasing the Depot site with help from the City in terms of monetary incentives. I believe the building on the land was struck as a deal with a developer that we would develop that property for an amount of rent similar to what was being paid on the MDR building, with the building and renovation project being paid off in 8-10 years...is that right?) anyway, I know that Denari is probably the most methodical guy out there and wouldn't railroad something into a truly bad situation...so what happened? why is this being dealt with now (5 years later) rather than right off the bat. I can't help but feel like something went down after the transition that has compromised the original agreements. anyway, as is the school does need to build equity or else it won't be able to function in the way it needs to in the future. i love the idea of a constantly transient school, but there is a reality check of tuition, facilities, etc. that does come into play....i mean its kinda sad that a school with such a history of making has found it so difficult to get CNC or other 3-d milling facilties off the ground.

I'm with Israel. SCI-Arc students need to pick up a cutlass, put on eye patches, and send EOM into the briney deep. That said, it still wouldn't help the school much. SCI-Arc seems doomed to twist in the wind a bit longer till they hire a better legal team and get a board whos priorities lie in the schools development. Too bad Johnny Cochran is dead...

well Mesereau's available now...

Apparently in SCI-Arc's 2000 deal with the city and first developer (now bankrupt) there was a lease running through 2019, with an opportunity for the school to buy the site

i dont know if the lease is now null and void.

sciarc time ago was at open wound, now shadow in night.