ap -
it depends on what you are going to cut or surface score. I use 2 axis outsource job shops for artistic (intricate) large scale heavy plate cutting. off the top of my head ( & one cup of espresso at 5-30 am)

Trump is #1 (largest) can cut about 1" mild steel - they are located in Connecticut (german company).

Mitsubishi (#2) can cut up to 3/4" on a 3015 (3600 watt nitrogen with oxygen assist) - american offices in Wooddale, Il. LXP 40-30 (3000 watt similar to above is very nice - with a small buffer though. Biggest file size is 80kb (x 5 files) with GeoTool software. Tolerances are very fine, as a rule better than standard waterjet kerf. They have a more recent 5 axis that can cut similar steel to about .5". Cool for automotive things with prefab/bent tube. I can dig up a pic. You pay thru the nose for jigs to make the job work. Generally, its only for a production type environment.

.5" plate estimating formula
- 5 seconds a pierce
straight geometric machine part looking things cut at about 25" minute
curvy art looking stuff is about 12.5" minute.
if you can calculate your distances from your software
you take the inside cut areas and double that number - add it to the outside perimeter distance. then take the pierces (both inside and outsides) and x5 to get that second total. Do the math to figure out how long its going to take to cut. If you consistently do that - you will be amazed at the range of costs for the same parts. Over several technologies for cutting on a single commission prices ranged 28,800%. It pays to have clean files for whatever you are doing and know how much you will get dinged if you let it happen.

All that formula on /5" material (A-36) comes out to about 400 - 750 inches an hour depending on what kind of thing you are cutting. If you have lots and lots of holes or opennings - a water jet might be better, because the cutting rate to estimate from is constant. Its also slower, but sometimes its a better deal. (also you can surface score things with a waterjet). Big complex parts make cutters very nervous especially with thicker materials. They like little simple gears, brackets, flanges ...............

Mazak only sells 1600 watt lasers in the US. This wattage is great for sheet metal & up to maybe .25" depending on tolerances. They are in Gardena, CA. Good for wood up to about .375" They will cut at a speed around one third of a 3000 watt mitsubishi. Rates are about $60ish an hour vs 175 - 350+ depending on locale.

Amada - mostly sheet metal 11 ga or so, Whitney - very heavy duty 1" + 5000 watt + if I remember right, There are others.

There are very light weight - low wattage ones for scoring of models, or cutting thinner plastics and wood.
IF you want to cut aluminum, copper or brass/bronzes - on the larger watt lasers you are limited to about .125" - .25" depending on metal. They will have to scuff up (jitterbug) & paint the laser cut side with black paint. The molten metal basically becomes a mirror and burns out the lens. Its expensive and they won't do it. For those metals - use a waterjet.


For lasers, the general rule of thumb is for the thickness of material you are cutting - that is as close as you want to have cutting paths (tool paths) come near each other. If your files are clean you can push it a bit, but if not you will get 'blow outs' or material failures that just sort of melt away. Always leave space between parts of at least thickness of material . If you are cutting 4x8 stock - assume that the real maximum cutting area is 93.5 x 47. If it is 5 x 10 or 5 x 8, you loose 2" on one end, and .5 on the others. They have newer machines that the laser moves on the y (narrow 48" length of material) on the overhead gantry. The x axis (long 96 side) is a bed that moves.

Depending on what you want to cut - if you have CLEAN flawless files - you can get good competitive rates. That idea allows you to shop for better prices which among job shops can very about 50% or more. .dxf = Native arc & radius, closed polyline files, 128kb or smaller in data exchange format - best bet is v.13 because that will access a wider range of job shops out there. It tends to corrupt less if you have lots of shallow arcs. If the vendor you locate is taking anything other than the above mentioned .dxf - they will charge you to rework your files into something usable. Your geometry might change giving your something else. Bigger machines like mentioned above- come are in excess of 600 - 700 k. They are not nuts to spend money on software - but rather interested in cutting 24-7 for years.

Depending on what you are cutting- and the tolerance needed for your design - there are other things that can cut: laser, waterjet, plasma, hi-definition plasma, mixed oxyacetylene, routers. they all eat .dxf files.

what area are you in??what are you trying to do?? interested in feeding the machine??

e-)

art tech geek - how much do you think it'd cost, minimum, to get a cutter that could cut 1/4" stainless? I'd assume prices go through the roof as the material gets thicker.

We were looking at one for wood at about $15k, but I really would like to see if it's possible to get one that could cut stainless. Dealing with the cutters is a HUGE pain in the ass! Never reliable, and our orders are tiny compared to the prototypes and regular stuff, so it get's pushed back.

Are there any good lease options? Any thoughts? I am pretty sure it's too expensive, but I'd like to know for sure. Are the prices dropping/technology increasing at a rate that is worth waiting a little while? We are new to all of this and exploring options.

Thanks

Thanks for the load of info ATG!

I am in denmark. Looking for a 2d cutter (the machine itself, not a company) which is able to cut wood, plexi, acryllic, and thin metal (2-3 mm). What is the best models for this kind of work? The price should be around $10.000-30.000

Or even bettter, a 3D cutter which could do the same kinds of things besides from cutting 3D objects. I guess this would be a CNC cutter instead of a laser?


ap

Ap & Trace,

In the price range your options are iffy.

If - you want to cut 1/4" stainless steel - you need at least a 2100 or 2500 watt laser and it will cut pretty slow (about 60% the speed of mild steel). I don't think that a 1600 or 1750 watt laser will do what you need. Also, you will need to passivate (acid treat) the cut edges because they will rust (at least the #304 & #316 alloys). Iron migrates to the surface and it is no longer 'stainless' along the cut edges. It would be less expensive up front for stainless to buy a waterjet. They are however, messier, more maintenance and have a higher operating cost because of consumables (garnet abrasive powder). +'s are that if you want to cut really thick materials like 6" granite - you can. The mentioned budget is short in both those catagories.

I'll make some specific inquiries with buddies with machines / consulting to maybe narrow your search horizon. There are some trade publications that I buy that market used machinery. Ironically, I dumped a load of magazines in the trash yesterday. Lasers are not the most common thing (maybe 2% of the market). I'll look at what is going price in some back issues.

It might be a couple of days til I have best answers. I indulge your fantasy of great in house toys .

To buy a(ny) machine, in my professional opinion, is a huge indulgent waste of financial resources. You end up with a dedicated facility for either a job shop - which I don't think that you want to be - or a very expensive toy that may not do everything you ultimately can envision. If your .dxf programming is flawless you can develop great competitive vendors who value and respect your business. Many will eventually send you clients because they cannot be bothered. All they want to do is plug in tool paths and cut, cut, cut. They do not want to think. (trust me). Flawless .dxf is the basis of a new business model for flexible, time sensative, quality work & it serves architectural practitioners as single proprietors. One machine type will never do everything you want best or most cost effectively. I invested as much time learning what I know out of curiosity, as many people do getting a specific university degree. Saddly, none of this stuff is part of curricula anywhere (or worth a practical darn ).

e-)

Our interest in lasers is not for architecture, although making some models, possibly as a way to subsidize a purchase, could be useful. We are interested in one for prototypes and wood cuts (and SS, if it's cheap enough), for products that will be sold.

If it were just for architecture, I'd never think about it, but we've spend a few thousand getting things made at cutters and almost every time they are either late by weeks or screw the entire order up. We've tried several, and some won't even deal with us because our stuff is small, so when they charge by the inch, it's not much. But we need high tolerances, so it takes them longer. I can understand their frustration, but it's also a pain in my ass!

We are looking at options in Mexico, too, although I don't feel too confident about that it could be a way to save $$ until we get our own.

Thanks a lot for you help!

came across an interesting but stale (no contact forum) resource.It has a nice description of performance characteristics of lower watt lasers.

e-)

ps on the lasers - probably Coherent.