Very basic questions here. Just curious about building systems in medium-sized apartment buildings. Let's say we've got a 3-unit building of about 4800 S.F. (1600 S.F. per unit). Would each unit have a completely separate compressor and duct system for A/C?
What about plumbing? Would there be a shared water heating system with submeters? What capacity would be appropriate (assuming 1.5 baths per unit)?
How would a boiler system figure into this, if at all?
usually this is more of a regional / local issue but most likely [assuming condo or for sale in the future] separate systems for each unit including plumbing. you should consider tankless waterheaters for less space / more energy efficiency. can do radiant floor heat also if you wish. plan on the 'furnace' and hwh in the unit or perhaps in the basement[if you have one] for the ground floor unit. the hwh for all 3 all can go basement but the tankless take so little space, its usually better to put it into the flats.
a 3-flat is really a small building not really medium sized.
TED > Thanks for the response. You're right, 3-unit is a small building in the grand scheme of things. To me, it's medium sized at the moment. :-)
My idea is to purchase a 3.5-story building and make the top 1.5 floors into a "model unit" and also my residence. Because I don't have rehab experience I figure it will be easier to get a construction loan for the rest of the building this way, if I can demonstrate precisely what I want to do and that I can get it done.
Anyway, my main concern is setting up the systems initially so that they will be expandable when the rest of the units go in. I spoke with a friend last night who gave me a look of good info and advice. I'll do some more learnin' on the subject. Thanks!
I agree with TED about separate systems--you may want to rell it off as condos some day--also, it'll be nice b/c your tenants can pay their own water, gas and electric that way. Radiant heat in a 19th c. building in OTR would be pretty far out--it would be perfect for a drafty old brick building--heat comes straight off the floor instead of running up the walls. Prospective buyers/tenants would love that.
Yeah... I've looked into that... of course installation costs are quite a bit higher, given that all the floors would have to be reinforced (added weight of system), materials are pretty expensive (non-concrete installation), and a separate AC system would be necessary. At least that's the way I understand it... just after some basic research.
I would definitely consider selling condos down the road. That's why I'd like to install systems that are separable for each unit. I'll let you know how the tour goes! This all may be moot in a few weeks!
signum, are you referring to that fact they don't know that they should probably design separate, descrete systems for individual meter of the future condos or that they're not talking philosophically about space relationships and design theory possiblities of an adaptive reuse of space? please clarify.
Keep in mind that I'm not an architect! No background in it but I'm going off to M.Arch this fall... I intend to both wax philosophical and learn about building systems!
Oh I'm fine with any phenomenological/theoretical/practical discourse on architecture, I can hold my own there, I just have very little idea about the technical stuff that they're babbling on about!
I think it's just a woefull sign of my education, but then again, maybe it's best not to learn these things, then you can leave them to someone else hopefully.
sorry signum, you have to learn this stuff or else architecture will be really hard for you - nothing you design will be feasible or it will be so expensive and difficult it will be a joke. you WILL learn about this stuff (to a certain degree)
Fair enough, though I'm assuming you guys are in the U.S. where architects have slightly different responsibilities than in the UK? I think many of these issues we pick up in practice rather than at uni, plus I suppose I'd rather be paid to learn than spend precious university time on it!
signum - i am in US and yes, i picked it all up outside of school - what i have picked up of it. we got basics in the university, enough to get started.
mpsyp - i had a nice long response to you, then I realized your whole situation was more a question of expandability - sounds like you need a case study
db> It's out of town. Not a definite plan, by any stretch (haven't decided on a destination yet!) but I'm doing the research anyway. Couldn't hurt.
So far it seems that individual combination forced air systems (perhaps with humidity control?) for each unit would make the most sense. That way, I'm not installing any high-capacity equipment to be underutilized while I get together the financing (and balls) for the rest of the project.
I would love radiant floor or even radiant baseboard heat, though... hmm...
Marc
Mar 14, 05 1:10 pm ·
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Building Systems Basics
Very basic questions here. Just curious about building systems in medium-sized apartment buildings. Let's say we've got a 3-unit building of about 4800 S.F. (1600 S.F. per unit). Would each unit have a completely separate compressor and duct system for A/C?
What about plumbing? Would there be a shared water heating system with submeters? What capacity would be appropriate (assuming 1.5 baths per unit)?
How would a boiler system figure into this, if at all?
Thanks for not laughing. :-)
Marc
usually this is more of a regional / local issue but most likely [assuming condo or for sale in the future] separate systems for each unit including plumbing. you should consider tankless waterheaters for less space / more energy efficiency. can do radiant floor heat also if you wish. plan on the 'furnace' and hwh in the unit or perhaps in the basement[if you have one] for the ground floor unit. the hwh for all 3 all can go basement but the tankless take so little space, its usually better to put it into the flats.
a 3-flat is really a small building not really medium sized.
TED > Thanks for the response. You're right, 3-unit is a small building in the grand scheme of things. To me, it's medium sized at the moment. :-)
My idea is to purchase a 3.5-story building and make the top 1.5 floors into a "model unit" and also my residence. Because I don't have rehab experience I figure it will be easier to get a construction loan for the rest of the building this way, if I can demonstrate precisely what I want to do and that I can get it done.
Anyway, my main concern is setting up the systems initially so that they will be expandable when the rest of the units go in. I spoke with a friend last night who gave me a look of good info and advice. I'll do some more learnin' on the subject. Thanks!
Marc
p.s. don't have rehab experience of larger multi-unit buildings, I should say. Done quite a bit of work on my own 2100SF single-family.
mpsyp--my offer stands on the help with that building. I'd love to see it rehabbed. Let me know what you think after the tour.
I agree with TED about separate systems--you may want to rell it off as condos some day--also, it'll be nice b/c your tenants can pay their own water, gas and electric that way. Radiant heat in a 19th c. building in OTR would be pretty far out--it would be perfect for a drafty old brick building--heat comes straight off the floor instead of running up the walls. Prospective buyers/tenants would love that.
Yeah... I've looked into that... of course installation costs are quite a bit higher, given that all the floors would have to be reinforced (added weight of system), materials are pretty expensive (non-concrete installation), and a separate AC system would be necessary. At least that's the way I understand it... just after some basic research.
I would definitely consider selling condos down the road. That's why I'd like to install systems that are separable for each unit. I'll let you know how the tour goes! This all may be moot in a few weeks!
Marc
This is kinda scary, is this what architects learn?
ahh its what they should learn, but don't.
signum, are you referring to that fact they don't know that they should probably design separate, descrete systems for individual meter of the future condos or that they're not talking philosophically about space relationships and design theory possiblities of an adaptive reuse of space? please clarify.
Keep in mind that I'm not an architect! No background in it but I'm going off to M.Arch this fall... I intend to both wax philosophical and learn about building systems!
Oh I'm fine with any phenomenological/theoretical/practical discourse on architecture, I can hold my own there, I just have very little idea about the technical stuff that they're babbling on about!
I think it's just a woefull sign of my education, but then again, maybe it's best not to learn these things, then you can leave them to someone else hopefully.
sorry signum, you have to learn this stuff or else architecture will be really hard for you - nothing you design will be feasible or it will be so expensive and difficult it will be a joke. you WILL learn about this stuff (to a certain degree)
Fair enough, though I'm assuming you guys are in the U.S. where architects have slightly different responsibilities than in the UK? I think many of these issues we pick up in practice rather than at uni, plus I suppose I'd rather be paid to learn than spend precious university time on it!
signum - i am in US and yes, i picked it all up outside of school - what i have picked up of it. we got basics in the university, enough to get started.
mpsyp - i had a nice long response to you, then I realized your whole situation was more a question of expandability - sounds like you need a case study
marc--
is the building here or where you're headed? glad to advise/assist if it's around town. let me know.
db> It's out of town. Not a definite plan, by any stretch (haven't decided on a destination yet!) but I'm doing the research anyway. Couldn't hurt.
So far it seems that individual combination forced air systems (perhaps with humidity control?) for each unit would make the most sense. That way, I'm not installing any high-capacity equipment to be underutilized while I get together the financing (and balls) for the rest of the project.
I would love radiant floor or even radiant baseboard heat, though... hmm...
Marc
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