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K-Panther

Hi, first post. 

What is the architecture names of the elements with the red marks, I have the names for everything else. It's Niall McLaughlin's Bishop Edward King Chapel. 


thanks 

 
Nov 6, 24 11:39 pm
K-Panther

hello..? 

Nov 7, 24 1:41 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

rigid foam of some sort. Not a difficult question but please make sure to give me credit on your homework assignment. 

Nov 7, 24 7:37 am  · 
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Wood Guy

I was thinking mineral wool but the hatch pattern is wrong.

Nov 7, 24 9:25 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

One looks like radiant flooring so likely rigid or mortar. Mineral wool could not do that slope drain thing either.

Nov 7, 24 9:37 am  · 
2  · 
t a z

mudbed or stiff sand mix

Nov 7, 24 9:58 am  · 
1  · 
graphemic

I agree it's some kind of mortar given the radiant tubes and the slope at the top on the other red dot.

Nov 7, 24 2:15 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton

Agree with taz and graphemic. It's a cement mortar topping/infill. It's being used to embed the hydronic heating tubes on the floor, and to fill in the void behind the brick/stone/whatever veneer at the building base to direct water in the cavity out to weep holes. In US best practice, the masonry cavity would probably not be filled in like that, but have a sill flashing to the weeps instead. But they might have filled it because the cavity goes below the soil line (generally not a good idea).

Nov 7, 24 2:26 pm  · 
4  · 
K-Panther

ok, thanks. Would you know the architectural terms for both, under the floor and in the wall?

Nov 7, 24 4:18 pm  · 
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gwharton

At the floor, it would be something like "fluid-applied cementitious underlayment" (aka "Gypcrete") or "lightweight cement topping". For the masonry cavity fill, probably "fill with mortar continuous to drain plane, slope to weeps" or something like that.

Nov 7, 24 5:11 pm  · 
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fapc

if the floor assembly is representing hydronic heating tubes, there would be a separate form for them, typically they are laid down directly on substrate or held in guides; yes it's drawn simplistically/diagrammatically.

Nov 7, 24 5:38 pm  · 
1  · 
K-Panther

@gwharton could I just call it masonry cavity fill

Nov 11, 24 2:44 pm  · 
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Wood Guy

Non, I thought we were doing the usual snarky thing. That section detail is too out of context for me to know what any of it is.

Nov 11, 24 4:03 pm  · 
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fapc

a few of the graphics are not drawn to industry standard.

the horizontal stippled poche with "circles" in it, is a finished floor assembly. with the graphics not super clear, to me it looks like a reinforced topping slab on top of a sub-flooring (if the finished floor be concrete or terrazzo and the sub flooring could be anything from a rubber or a self-leveling compound)


the vertical stippled (number one looking shape) is probably just grout

Nov 7, 24 9:29 am  · 
2  · 
K-Panther

from what I googled, I thought that too.

Nov 7, 24 3:59 pm  · 
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fapc

glad my years of experience can be whittled down to a google search; reassuring

Nov 7, 24 5:38 pm  · 
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K-Panther

lol that what it looked like, after hours of searching and guessing. what would you recommend I go with?

Nov 8, 24 5:02 pm  · 
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t a z

Skylight detailing looks sus and have fun maintaining that gutter

Nov 7, 24 10:02 am  · 
1  · 
gwharton

Yeah. Also the crazy stress concentrator in the concrete from the floor slab to that thick bench/wall thingy. No way that isn't going to crack to pieces in a couple of seasonal temperature cycles.

Nov 7, 24 2:28 pm  · 
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t a z

It could be a section taken thru a tiny cantilever niche?

Bishop Edward King Chapel by Níall McLaughlin Architects by The Bartlett School of Architecture UCL - Issuu

Nov 7, 24 3:09 pm  · 
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gwharton

I was digging around through some of the photos of this project, and I think the (really weird) profile of that concrete cantilever in the OP's detail is due to it being cut through a side part of a diagonally tapered corbel. But maybe not? I dunno.

Nov 8, 24 6:08 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

These are presentation sections typically found in Detail magazine, and other types of publications.

Nov 7, 24 2:48 pm  · 
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t a z

Yep - Image 21 of 22

Bishop Edward King Chapel / Niall McLaughlin Architects | ArchDaily

Nov 7, 24 3:12 pm  · 
2  · 

An amazing building. Love the wood structure. The very small bit of concrete connecting the bottom does look off, as does the filled cavity at the bottom. I assume they know what they are doing, but I would be nervous with the latter in a rainy climate.

Mclaughlin's Auckland Tower is also impressive. Especially for being in Britain and on a heritage site. 

Nov 7, 24 3:37 pm  · 
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K-Panther

thanks, I love the guy, he was a tutor of mine.

Nov 7, 24 4:00 pm  · 
1  · 
K-Panther

does that mean it's not accurate?

Nov 7, 24 4:08 pm  · 
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t a z

It means two things: 

1) The drawings are simplified for graphic presentation 

2) European hatch conventions differ from North American standards so when US students copy from Detail magazine it is fairly obvious.

Nov 7, 24 4:33 pm  · 
3  · 
K-Panther

btw, this is my version. does that look right, I am just missing the bits I highlighted in his. Obviously it's not finished. 

Nov 7, 24 4:42 pm  · 
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Almosthip

I would make the hatching a lighter colour. Have you learned anything about line weights? Look at the original detail and look at yours. Why are some of their lines heaver and darker than yours? The scale of your concrete hatch is too big. Does anyone actually use that concrete hatch type anymore? We always show concrete with a solid hatch. Not going to to lie but I dont get your window detailing, what is supporting the window frame.

Nov 7, 24 6:15 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

I’m sure I had a ski jacket in late 80s that had that concrete hatch pattern. Looked good in teal, purple at gold.

Nov 7, 24 6:26 pm  · 
1  · 
Almosthip

Additionally a footing is the pad at the bottom of a foundation wall. What you have shown is either the foundation wall or concrete grade beam, but not a footing.

Nov 7, 24 6:27 pm  · 
1  · 
Almosthip

NS this what I picture you wearing 

Nov 7, 24 6:43 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

That’s it but black background. Matching snow pants too.

Nov 7, 24 6:45 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton

Dazzle camouflage!

Nov 7, 24 6:45 pm  · 
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K-Panther

So you can't see the line weight because it's not a good quality image, but I have now made it thicker.

Nov 8, 24 4:55 pm  · 
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K-Panther

@Almosthip does the scale of the concrete hatch matter if the scale of the building is shown..?

Nov 8, 24 5:01 pm  · 
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Almosthip

The scale of the hatch always matters

Nov 8, 24 5:13 pm  · 
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K-Panther

@Almosthip it was due to scale the line weight wasn't obvious but I've changed it, thanks for the pointer. do window frame is supported by a reinforced concrete block.

Nov 11, 24 12:41 pm  · 
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pj_heavy


Still wrong , no WPM shown in the original dwg. Compacted hardcore is also incorrect. I’ll not give you the answers though / here’s the section that i think it is cutting from. 


@ gwharton comments were spot on.

Nov 7, 24 7:28 pm  · 
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t a z

Yes, it's the BS niche (ArchDaily link from above):

Nov 8, 24 11:25 am  · 
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t a z

OG augmented reality

Nov 11, 24 1:46 pm  · 
2  · 

those are awesome. I wonder how well it actually worked. With my slowly fading eyesight i am starting to have a hella time seeing things that are not the exact right distance. Chances are all they saw was a white blur ;-)

Nov 11, 24 3:25 pm  · 
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K-Panther

he's also an awesome guy.

Nov 11, 24 3:33 pm  · 
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smaarch

I've designed and been involved with a lot of concrete design. Either there is something wrong with the scale of the drawing as presented or the concrete is impossibly thin.  I don't know the material you are asking about-perhaps a lightweight  concrete fill                       

Nov 11, 24 11:00 pm  · 
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K-Panther

@Almosthip - are those better?

Nov 15, 24 2:09 pm  · 
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OddArchitect

I know this is unsolicited advice but . . these are just my opinion so it's not worth much.  

Leaders - I find it helpful to have them angled - it's easier to read and harder to confuse the leaders as part of what's being built. 

Color - most contractors will not have colored prints - it may not be a good idea to rely on color to distinguish things in CD's. 

Line weight - use bolt outlines for the the outer edge of the assembly you're cutting.

Hatch patterns - make them a 50% grey tone. 

Nov 15, 24 2:23 pm  · 
3  · 
t a z

Hatch scale - should look consistent within a given detail and be consistent across various detail scales (just like text height)

Nov 15, 24 2:58 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Line weights dawg, use them. Also, those leaders are terrible.

Nov 15, 24 3:24 pm  · 
1  · 
JLC-1

try to organize the labels in a consecutive order, don't put the top material all the way down between the bottom ones, it's confusing.

Nov 15, 24 3:30 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Godawful leaders.

Nov 15, 24 7:21 pm  · 
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K-Panther

@where are the lines weights wrong? I gave used a thicker weight for the cut outline, and black lanes of the same weight for the materials, structure of the building not in cut as the consistent line weight and everything else even lighter...

Nov 16, 24 10:13 am  · 
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K-Panther

I usd* a thicker...

Nov 16, 24 12:46 pm  · 
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newbie.Phronesis

Try using a gray tone for the hatching like Odd said - it's indistinguishable from the assembly line weights. Tip I learned was take couple steps back from your screen/printout to see if it's still clear.

Nov 16, 24 2:01 pm  · 
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OddArchitect

I'm still recovering from shoulder surgery so I can't get outdoors much. I figured I'd take 30 minuets to do a quick re-work of the detail with the items I was referring to. I'm not sure about the wall interior so please don't take the assembly and noting too seriously.


Nov 16, 24 7:00 pm  · 
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pj_heavy

why would you insulate the external / outside part of the slab ? … did you even know where the section is actually cut from ? The guy won the Sterling prize for gawd sake .. he would roll his eye to see that you draw anything PVC in his bld… : let the kid does his homework

Nov 17, 24 2:17 am  · 
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OddArchitect

Sorry if the was confusing pj-heavy

 As I sated above this sketch was only regarding the graphical items I had previously mentioned and the OP had asked for clarification on. I literally copied the notes and various components from the OP's detail.  This was done to show a method to illustrate the assembly.  

I am aware that various components and assemblies are incorrect. I specifically mentioned not to take the notes or assembly too seriously. I wasn't about to do the OP's work for him. 

 Again, I apologize if that wasn't clear.

Nov 17, 24 12:17 pm  · 
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pj_heavy

No no, dont apologise ...understand where you're coming from. This is such a pointless exercise and clearly this student has not learnt anything from this exquisite bld. If they are based in the UK / visit the site ... even politely ask for a studio visit ; speaking to people (I' ve done it myself as a student).

Nov 22, 24 7:21 pm  · 
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OddArchitect

I've had this assignment as a student. I've also had to train nearly every fresh grad about the graphics of details. Heck, I know several architects on this site, even in this thread, that don't care about the graphics of their drawings.

Nov 23, 24 10:32 am  · 
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BluecornGroup

We all know architectural & structural detailing (graphic delineation) style is a matter of preference - I use sections where where areas are called out with balloons to enlarged details (2-4x scale) - leaders often confuse the detail information  - I use numbered Key Notes - this allows much (and perhaps lengthy) information like specifications and installation notes to be included - much of this is obviously boilerplate text - if this detail is tied to a schedule (perhaps a Door & Window Schedule) a note could state see Detail A - SH. A1.01 - construction specifications could also reference a specific detail.  

Nov 16, 24 2:58 pm  · 
2  · 
K-Panther

Improved scale for hatches, line weight and leaders. 


Nov 17, 24 10:12 am  · 
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Almosthip

stilll looks like crap. Increase the overall scale of the detail would help.

Nov 25, 24 11:17 am  · 
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K-Panther

@OddArchitect you are awesome. I will study your detail. 

Nov 17, 24 10:15 am  · 
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OddArchitect

Just in case I wasn't clear you need to read my response to pj-heavy above.

Nov 17, 24 12:18 pm  · 
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K-Panther

@pj_heavy is my detail wrong as I have also placed rigid insulation on the external part of the slab..?


Nov 17, 24 2:13 pm  · 
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OddArchitect

Typically you don't place insulation under an exterior slab unless you have hydronic heat in it. Hydronic heat are tubes of glycol or some other hard to freeze liquid that are heated. Systems like that can be used in moderate climates for high cost projects to reduce the buildup of snow and ice.

Nov 17, 24 2:27 pm  · 
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K-Panther

could I get away with it?

Nov 17, 24 2:57 pm  · 
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OddArchitect

I don't see why you'd want to do it. It would be a waste of money and materials.

Nov 17, 24 3:24 pm  · 
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