Are you going to post pics of the non combatants that Hamas killed in October?

Sure. Got some? And not bs propaganda. I haven’t seen any on social media that haven’t been manipulated.

Clearly this guy has never heard of /combatfootage but okay keep living in Disneyland sutures.

Wait, what were you expecting to see on “Genocide Central”?

Okay but if you want to be unbiased, shouldn't you post the photo of the girl that was raped, shot, legs broken and spat on paraded around town by Hamas? You know "both sides" and all?

Panda, if you can find that actual photo, please post it here. In the last 100 days I have not seen said photo, as what the israelis said is likely overhyped "fake news"

Friendly Fire

Friendly Fire

So let me see if got that right, I posted an image and news account of IOF attacking the festival, and your follow up is of bodies in a vehicle, that was likely attacked by the IOF and you want everyone to believe that it was Khamas? 

Is that your story?

Ok, if this is even true, thats two. It doesn't compare to 23k dead, 60k injured and 1.8 million displaced. Oh wait it probably does cuz these civilians are white and the palestinians are brown ... got it, carry on...

That was not a video link to Khamas. It was to a video of an attack on a bus in the Philippines.

Ok. Now you got something right.

So, 1 Israeli, is equally to 30,000 civilians? Is that your contention?

Not at all. Just pointing out if you are going to say "but both sides", actually show, both sides.....

I swear to all that’s holy. Some of have either not watched Red Dawn, didn’t fully grasp the movie at all, or only think American’s are allowed to go full Khamas on the occupying forces. Some of you still won’t even acknowledge my initial post, or even read what is allowed by an occupied people.

For “both sides” to work in this context, we’d need to allow for the occupied people to murder 30,000 Israelis, is that your proposition? Because then we can talk. But what we are witnessing is not, will never be, “both sides”. Ever.

Is the amount of killing equal - no. 

Is the amount of funding each side has equal - no 

Is one side more just than the other - no

Are both sides killing non combatants - yes 

Are both sides being evil - yes

Do both sides need to be stopped - yes

Both side need to be stopped - which will happen as soon as Israel starts living in HARMONY with the people they have occupied. As simple as that.

Chad I don't think anyone on the pro-palestine side of this argument is suggestion notions of being "just" or "evil". You're doing that. I frankly don't care about ideas of morality. The only thing that "needs" to happen is that the state of Israel *needs* to cease its occupation and domination over a land and people that do not, and never did, belong to them. Your "both sides"-ism is tiring, weak, and is the lowest form of political thought.

Both sides are being evil. Both sides need to be stopped.  Right now that means stopping Israel.  

You've said that what Hamas has done is justified in order to get their land back. That seems to be a moral interpretation of what is going on. Frankly I find you inability to find fault in anything what Hamas has done is abhorrent. 

Finally, my 'both sides' view isn't a form of political thought. My views are based on my personal experience with war, killing, and murder.  Only people who have never experienced these things would have the foolishness to call that political though.  Any group that will actively target non combatants is evil, regardless of what their end goals are. You're never going to change my mind of that.  Ever.  

Okay, Chad. I don't need to have served - my father did in Vietnam - to know who are unjustly occupied, what are unjust killings, and what is allowed under law, by those who are occupied and being murdered by the imperialist war machine. Anyone who has served, and I know many, would never agree with the unjust murder of civilians by IOF in order to get at the enemy. Ever.

And given your military history, I dare say you'd do anything different to defend America. 

SameoldDoctor - Funny, I think the Israelis once tried the 'living in Harmony' thing before but got screwed over. Maybe you could invite Spongebob over and also have a unicorn rainbow land with 'imagination'. 

SameOldDoctor if you lived with neighbors that would do this to you...how comfortable would you be with living in Harmony: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching

I may seem racist, but SameOldDoctor is a pro-cannibalist/lynchist

Aaaaaaand before you respond, collective punishment, is against The Geneva Convention and is a war crime. So all this both sides bullshit, and attributing actions perpetrated by Hamas, to the majority civilian population, makes those complicit as well.

Just curious. As they had initially agreed upon a ceasefire and 45 minutes into said ceasefire agreement Hamas launched a missile at Israel, what is the appropriate path forward since all you western bros are touting "ceasefire now". Hamas IS a terrorist organization. It's simple, show good faith and let all remaining hostages go and actually abide by the ceasefire.

panda, I have no skin in this game but if you're going to make such claims, you're going to have to provide some kind of proof. IMO. Because as we all know, there's a dizzying amount of what is clearly propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation out there

If you're smart enough to post a screenshot from Instagram, I would wager you're smart enough to search something on Google.

You are so misinformed, panda - the original BS ceasefire lasted for 5 days not 45 minutes.

It is pretty obvious that if Israel can do TARGETED attacks like they did recently in Lebanon. Hence, they could have done the same in Gaza but they choose to blow up building smoking hookahs in the foreground. 

Also what's pretty obvious is how dehumanized the IDF soldiers are. History will not remember them kindly when they, say, come and open a falafel (which is also culturally appropriated) restaurant in Brooklyn or LA after their IDF "experience"

Most solders become dehumanized regardless of their views before being in war. I think what Israel's doing is they are targeting locations of Hamas members regardless where they are. This means if Hamas is in a (insert non miliary location here) Israel just says f@*k it, send it. It's horrible and the nature of modern warfare in urban environments. Israel shouldn't be doing this.

Chad, there are many examples of where the IDF has bombed entire apartment complexes (10-12 storeys high) with no Hamas members, or with no evidence of anyone, say shooting missiles from there. They are just leveling the whole place without any rhyme or reason, all while smoking hookas in the background.

Also, Panda, are you an ex-IDF guy turned archinector?

So what if he/she is? I know several ex-IDF members. I also know several people who used to live in Gazza. One of them I think used to be a Hamas member. It's a small sample size but you'd be surprised what these groups think the 'war'.

Small sample size? As opposed to 30,000 civilians.

Panda, didn't you post a link that had to be dealt with because it pointed to the wrong thing? Social media is happening in the moment, Google is not.

b3tadine[sutures] wrote:

"Small sample size? As opposed to 30,000 civilians. "

Small sample size as in I've only spoken with nine Israeli  and Palestinian people who were actually involved in the 'war'.

One you "thought" was Khamas.

sameolddoctor wrote

Chad, there are many examples of where the IDF has bombed entire apartment complexes (10-12 storeys high) with no Hamas members, or with no evidence of anyone, say shooting missiles from there. They are just leveling the whole place without any rhyme or reason, all while smoking hookas in the background.

I don't doubt it. I think Israel literally said 'f@*k it, send it' and just shot where they thought Hamas could be. It's just like what Hamas keeps doing.  It's horrible.  

On a side note: The best guided munitions have an accuracy of around 5 meters.  The stuff that Israel's using in Gaza  requires a spotter (person on the ground) to direct the munitions and has a accuracy of around 20 meters.  In a dense urban environment that's a huge area.  Israel shouldn't be using the munitions that they are in Gaza.  

Chad, the IDF has used a lot of dumb bombs, some being 2,000 lb bombs to pound Gaza. The only reasoning that this could have is indiscriminate destruction and nothing else. 

On the other hand, if you know any ex IDF baby-killers (not that they have been at it for a while) - I hope you are not friends with them.

And the consistently bombed areas where they told civilians to evacuate.

I've seen constant reporting about the international communities response to the 'war'. Most of it is about what Israel is doing and how it needs to stop ASAP. There are also calls for investigations into what Israel has / is doing. Just like the posts here it's all just for show and they won't actually do anything. It's all just a way for the speaker to feel involved and important.

You're going to have to do better. That is not what I wrote.

Then explain it to me like I'm five. 

What did you mean by what you wrote? 

I ask because the reporting I've seen is filled with various nations 'challenging the narrative' when they ask for investigations into war crimes against Israel. I've also seen many reports (last on just 15 min ago) saying that Israelis response to the Oct attacks by Hamas are not proportional and their current actions look like an attempt at genocide.

Chad, almost no US or international news organization broadcasted the first day of the ICJ proceedings (when SA brought its case against Israel and the Israel Diaper Forces). It was buried 3 pages down on the CNN app. However on the second day the news showed up on the front pages of said organizations. Hence, f em all.

^ this.

SOD / b3ta- you're upset that a certain piece of news didn't get top billing / front page coverage?   That's deferent than it not being reported.  

I heard about this news since the day it happened. I'm continuing to hear about it via various news outlets both online and on the radio.  

..

Chad, that's interesting framing. When was the last time charges of genocide have been brought to the ICJ, against the Empire and its client state Israel?

Chad, not quite sure what version of mass media you are reading/watching/listening to, but if you claim that the coverage of the genocide has been proportionate to both the Israeli and Palestinian side, I got news for you.

There are so many news postings about the PTSD faced by the hostages after being brought back to Israel, whilst bombing continues unabated. But perhaps brown PTSD is not as cool. 

But then again if you do not want to go with my heresay, there has been thorough analysis done on this matter as well:

COVERAGE OF GAZA WAR IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND OTHER MAJOR NEWSPAPERS HEAVILY FAVORED ISRAEL, ANALYSIS SHOWS

On the other hand, we can sit around here and keep talking about various definitions, as Biden/Blinken/Netanyahu do the same while killing civilians, exploding universities and appropriating lands.

I'm watching: Al Jazeera, NPR, Rutters, ect. Not to mention several dozen other online sources that pop up in my feed. All have been reporting about the war crimes and genocide allocations within 24-48 hours of them being made. 

 As for equal coverage of the impacts to the civilians of each side - you're right, it's not an even split. Even now I'd say its 60/40 Israel / Gaza. That's not what my comments have been about though. I commented on your assertion that no one is reporting on the allegation's of war crimes and attempted genocide.  You may just be consuming a limited amount of reporting.  

One final note.  I do find it odd that you two are chastising others for not paying attention to the people of Gaza and the atrocities being perpetrated against them.   Yet you're completely unaware an unaware of the Balochistan's in Pakistan.  An ethnic group very similar to the Palestinians  in Gaza but with one major difference - more of them have been killed and no one cares.  

Stop. We're focusing on Palestinians because Israel is a Client State of America. Full fucking stop. America could end this tomorrow. America is the reason this is happening. Americans are sending offensive weapons to Israel, against our law to provide defensive protection. American tax money. America and the rest of the Empire created and fosters the principles of zionism. There are ongoing genocides in Africa, there have been protests. This genocide we're paying for. I'm tired of the bullshit. I'm tired of endless wars. I'm tired of fighting ideas we've created; war on terror, war on drugs, etc, Hamas was created explicitly by Israel to keep from having a solution. ISIS is now being activated by the CIA to attack Iran. Pakistan is now attacking inside Iran. Iran is countering. North Korea is preparing to re-engage in hostilities. And you're here, going on about that?? Seriously? End all genocides. Stop all ethnic cleansing. No more blood and soil nationalism. There. Did I fucking cover all the bases? Or should I go on to discuss to discuss how Israel and Nazis in Ukraine and working together?

Chad, I am well aware of the struggle of the Baloch people (as I am from a neighboring country). And as beta mentions there are crises in South Sudan, Chad and many other countries. For obvious reasons that we are focusing on Gaza (Israeli apartheid, 14 billion of our tax dollars to support a country that has free healthcare, free tuition etc etc).

I also have to say that I am very sick and tired of White American Whataboutism. I literally had someone tell me while talking about Gaza - "Well what about global warming", They went to say that the Arab-Israeli fight sells more newspapers/media and that is why everyone is focused on it, totally forgetting that this conflict is the oldest and most prominent example of supremacy, land appropriation, cultural appropriation etc  Hence, fuck whataboutism and focus on what's actually happening now.

SOM and b3ta

You're both tired of endless wars but you don't want to do anything actually stop them. Here's a hint - it takes compromise. 

You're not going to get peace by only having one side 'win'. It's war. The goal of war is to kill more of them than you until once side is gone or they surrender. 

Neither side of this war in Gaza has the moral high ground. Both sides are there because they're being backed and directed by larger foreign governments who want an alley in the area. 

 It's not about returning 'sovereign land' to an ethnic group. It's all about what the foreign governments can gain from supporting each side.

In my opinion the only way to stop this 'war' is to make sure no foreign governments support the attempted genocide of either side.  The only way for that to happen is for all the foreign governments involved in this to come to a compromise.  That or all the foreign governments go war.   

Chad, this is totally about "returning 'sovereign land' to an ethnic group. "

If the greedy Israelis cant be happy with 81% of palestinian land they have appropriated as agreed by the Oslo Accord, the least they can do is treat their neighbors with respect and live in harmony.

And yes, the US specifically should not be involved in supporting a country whose per capita GDP is already 42k per person, while thousands live below the poverty line here at home

Lmao Chad no one is "attempting genocide" on the state of Israel. That's the difference that you can't seem to comprehend. This is not a war. There are not two sides here.

On the one hand, you have a wealthy and heavily armed government leveraging billions of dollars from multiple western allies; and on the other, you have a state that has been torn to almost non-existence for the better part of a century, using improvised, second-hand, and outdated tech to defend what is an open-air prison containing a little sliver of what used to be an industrialized country.

Your statement is as ludicrous as saying that Native Americans were partially responsible for the trail of tears because some nations actively fought back against their colonizers.

No it's not. It's about various nations having allies in a chaotic region. Hamas is being supported in an attempt to make things more difficult for Israel to provide intell and to maintain the chaos. The groups supporting Hamas know that Gaza will never go back to Palestine rule.

Name those groups then? Oh are you gonna say Russia? How about China? Despite the fact that their aid to Palestine isn't comparable at all in the content, surrounding remarks or scope as the actual weaponry and military force being provided to Israel by the US.

You keep bringing up that Hamas doesn't have the same level of support (money and weapons) as Israel. Why does that matter? Would you be find with the 'war' if each side had equal support?

Iran, Egypt, Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, Saudi Arabi, South Africa, and Turkey - they provide around $500 million to Hamas annually. Then there are the three billionaire leaders of Hamas who are thought to provide another $700 million or so a year through various 'black funds' from various other groups.  $1.2 billion (ish) a year. 

The US provides Israel with around $3.3 billion a year.  

No Chad, I would also not be okay with a genocide if the victim group had the same access to resources as the perpetrator. My point here is that you keep talking about this situation as though it IS a valid conflict between two parties, when in fact, it is a heavily armed colonizing force against a resisting occupied people. I don't know if you're being belligerently obtuse or what, but like... you keep repeating the same "both sides are bad, both need to be stopped", ignoring the reality of what's going on.

3.3 billion a year to the RICH country of Israel, plus another 14-15 billion here are there, right Chad? Also, Israel has been receiving funds from 78 years, Hamas not so much...

Again, this whataboutism is pointless and stupid when theres real kids and civilians dying on one side, while parties continue on in Tel Aviv nightly.

to say that ISIS was activated by the CIA is complete ignorance and an insult to the people who research and conduct intelligence for national security interests.

Actually it was originally a group of women at the CIA under Michael Scheur who resea rched and saw the rise of Islamic terrorism after the terrorist attacks from Hez /Hamas in the 70s /80s (you know, like the kinds when your pals Hezbollah hijacked a civilian plane in Egypt and point blank shot everyone who was an American or Israeli in the plane): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/cia-women-counterterrorism-9-11-al-qaeda-warnings/676041/

"We'll stop killing you if you only put down your weapons and dismantle your fighting forces" said the colonists to the Native Americans. Do you see how silly that is?

Just as silly as saying that one side has the moral high ground because they're the smaller, less funded combatants. Both sides need to be stopped from killing non combatants, by force if necessary.

Okay got it. So the southeast nations in the US deserved the trail of tears because they also killed "non combatants" (who, mind you, were actively hostile toward them, directly stole their land, and actively called in military to defend their occupier positions?).

Yup same is happening in Beirut as we speak. While all the powers that be cheer on.

my dad remembered this in his death bed, it was so horrendous even in south america we knew what was happening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7hr0kpObjY

I remember studying this in high school and college. Horrible. I know why the US hasn't done anything about / continues to support the IDF but I don't see how. It's an untenable position no matter how much benefit the US gets out of this relationship with Israel.

It is NOT untenable for the military-petro-industrial complex. 

Think of it this way : Our taxes --> Israeli "aid" --> Israel buys US weapons --> Our taxes in the hands of a select few + donations from AIPAC to our senators.

Israel is the biggest ponzi & tax laundering scam there is. It all works out for a select few, while we slog to pay taxes.

I can't disagree. When I said it was untenable I meant for me.

follow the money

And they will blame the progressives when "Joe the Plumber" obviously votes for Trump.

Your racism is showing, bro

If that's true, Yours too!

I can entertain the thought that I might be or come across as racist. You on the other hand are probably an angel and never show your racism.

Come to think of it 'showing your racism' is an interesting way to frame an accusation. Maybe the real problem is 'showing' vs. 'hiding'

Talking about Nazism, its funny that the Israelis are now acting like Nazis.

And if you quote Dawkins, there is no discussion to be had with you.

no discussion bc you have no real good response. Idiot.

Wait Dawkins? How long before we start quoting that racist c#nt Bill Maher?

I'm paraphrasing: 

I believe Dawkins said that if he had to choose between all the horrible practices of current fundamentalist religions he would least want to live in a fundamentalist Islamic religion. Dawkins then went onto say that it didn't matter much because all fundamentalist religions are evil, barbaric, and worthless.

"However, you can still have your toys and play with  them at home with your friends." 

No one asked you about occupational hazards. Go back to your job at the Hasbara bro.

2 Israeli deaths is very sad. But as your very article states:

 "Tensions had been escalating prior to the incident; over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed in the preceding two weeks; "

Hence, eff Israel and eff all you zio supporters

During an interview with CBS News on Sunday, Panetta warned that Israel was conducting a “war of terror.”

“The ability to be able to place an explosive in technology that is very prevalent these days, and turn it into a war of terror, really, a war of terror—this is something new,” Panetta said.

When asked whether Israel’s attack constituted terrorism, Panetta was unequivocal. “I don’t think there’s any question that it’s a form of terrorism,” he said.

How bad do you have to be to have an ex CIA hawk admonish you?

AIJAC? You cannot be serious.

THE Washington Post?

Poly never heard of "exceptions prove the rule"

To be fair, the Washington Post article is correct and factual. Spending five minutes would show you that. 

Unrelated - don't use idioms sameold. You're going to confuse poly. ;)

Yes, but the WaPo has been long knows to be a pro Zio, right wing rag

I wouldn't go that far but I do agree they are pro Israel . However, you know what was in the article is true. For b3ta to dismiss the article even though he knows it's true is disingenuous boarding on dishonesty. Doing so simply hurts the credibility of his stance and makes him just like poly.