With the atrocities being committed in Ukraine over the last 12+ months, I couldn't help but wonder how architectural design could play a roll in defending Ukrainian soldiers and citizens. I've been reading U.S. military field manuals regarding urban warfare and defense and it seems like there's a roll for design to play in making buildings more secure and easier to defend by allowing clear lines of fire, unbreachable entries and exits, cover and concealment, etc. I'm curious if anyone has experience or knowledge on designing military installments or defensive structures, or just general good ideas and practices when designing for military defense.
I'd also look at any modern school design that isn't an open campus. They are surprisingly secure and defendable from both external and internal threats.
I have about 15 years experience designing K-12 schools.
It's not about making a 'hardened' building.
It's mainly about controlling access into the building and site once the school day has started. In addition you need to think about eliminating 'blind spots' within the building where people could hide around a corner. You have to balance this with not having long, uninterrupted corridors where someone could stand at one end and turn the corridor into a shooting range. Ultimately you'll work closely with the school districts security department to determine what their preferences are.
All of his can be done while still creating an open campus feel with ample access to daylight and views.
Jun 15, 23 10:26 am ·
·
jrkettle
Interesting point with the blind spots and uninterrupted corners. A similar strategy is common in trench warfare where trenches are zig zagged to protect against enemy fire down the trench. Your point on integrating these features into an open campus feel is well taken. I believe many of these security features are quite innocuous to the untrained eye.
For housing you can also look to Israel. I remember seeing floor plans for a new condo project and all the units had safe rooms towards the centre of the building, I'm assuming not to hide from intruders but away from the perimeter that could be damaged from missiles.
Israel is probably the most relevant case study,
all things considered. Yes, the Konieczny project is a modern home within a turtle shell, but also quite out of touch with the masses. I’m curious if there are more economical strategies than 2’ thick concrete walls everywhere.
As an architect specializing in housing, this thread makes me incredibly sad. Housing should be connected to the community, not a fortress of solitude. If we try to make housing fortress-like, much like we're attempting with schools (instead of addressing the REAL problem), it's only going to make the built environment worse.
I too am saddened by the war in Ukraine, which is I posed the question. We should strive to connect communities, but in extraneous circumstances, should we not also consider the role design may play in saving lives? Certainly these concepts are not applicable for peaceful nations, but for those whose lives are currently at risk, I ask which is more important, safety or community connectivity? And as architects, shouldn’t we be asking, why not both? Furthermore, what role does design play for the soldiers who are not residing in these structures, but using them as cover against an invading force? I'm curious, given your housing specialization, if you are aware of any strategies to address this design problem?
Jun 14, 23 6:28 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
It’s not a design problem. It’s a social/economical/political issue that cannot be solved by design. Suggesting that we ought to design housing in a way that they can also double up as protective cover for shooting up enemies is back-ass-backwards. Counter point, what if the enemy uses said protective houses to shield themselves while shooting?
In a warzone aren't all buildings including the ones designed for defense going to be a pile of rubble anyway?
Jun 15, 23 1:44 pm ·
·
jrkettle
It’s a design problem that has persisted since the dawn of man, the reason for forts, castles, bunkers, the maginot line. It certainly would be nice to live in a world without war, but until that happens physical defense will remain relevant. In addressing your counterpoint, my reading suggested a defensive force in an urban environment has superior tactical and strategic advantage, to which properly designed cover can assist in stemming an attack. Hence why it is observed an attacking force requires a numerical advantage of over 6 to 1 to have a chance at success. Should the building be abandoned, sabotage is the standard operating procedure. See Germany’s retreat from Naples to Rome in the fall of 1943.
Jun 15, 23 6:05 pm ·
·
jrkettle
@Arch2 Not in all instances. Often times civilian casualties are to be avoided, in which case, door to door clearing is the MO, such as in the battle of Fallujah in November of 2004.
I once had a decorative metal type sales rep come in for chat and I was shocked when he apologized for only having his USA marketing brochures. You see, a significant portion of the products shown were high security fencing and other aggressive-passive defence fixtures. I can’t imagine working with such mindset. Refuge-camp style detention fencing was old proudly covered too
Give me a good ol’fashioned crocodile infested moat and I’ll be a sound sleeper.
Are you all working on your campfire badge at the same time Almosthip?
Also I thought all Canadian children were born knowing how to:
build a campfire
play hockey well enough to beat the Russians
make maple syrup
knit a hat from moose hair
b3ta - I read that with the accent . . .
Jun 15, 23 12:22 pm ·
·
Almosthip
More like a competition between the provinces. British Columbia keeps on hot boxing their province, but Alberta wants to be the best and wont be out done by BC ever. Ontario and Quebec both think they have the best fires, because they don't count anything farther west than lake Superior as important enough to even matter. Its a tight race at the moment
That's it, we need to get your PM to build a wall around Alberta.
Also as someone from Minnesota I view all provinces except the Northwest Territories to be our hat and symbolically just part of us. Ontario and Quebec are just confused French people who got lost and can't find their way home.
Jun 15, 23 12:33 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
I consider lake superior "north". hehe. Fire smoke was pretty heavy last week tho.
I think about this a lot, but less for military-style defense (though I do think about that) but more for the coming changes that catastrophic climate disruption are already starting to bring: temperatures higher or lower than normal, rain events either stronger than normal or non-existent, disruption in power supplies and communication.
So true. We continue to develop in areas that are more prone to natural disasters and subsidize insurance to allow financial feasibility. It seems like the cheaper option is to relocate development to safer areas, but its a bit difficult to move a city. I'm curious about your thoughts on military-style defense. Care to share here, or DM?
take a look into high-end single-fmaily residential buildings in Mexico City. Many of them turn their backs to the city and create refuge. Makes for terrible neighborhoods. I'm sure many other global cities do the same.
yes, the proliferation of fenced-in communities has been happening since the 90's in south America too, I worked in several in Argentina and Chile. Most of them have a small army to secure the perimeter, but no services inside, so everybody goes in and out all day, that makes it very hard to keep secure. Plus, they all need maids and chauffeurs and landscapers, so it's like a sponge. Bad neighborhoods for sure.
Jun 15, 23 11:43 am ·
·
jrkettle
I hadn’t thought of this angle. Very interesting. I wonder how much of their security is design, and how much is merely surveillance and guards. Let me know if you have any sources for info on this, my quick search shows little material.
Jun 15, 23 6:10 pm ·
·
JLC-1
it's not written anywhere, it's just a reaction to the inoperancy of police, a yard wall 12 ft tall will effectively stop a robber, an unarmed guard will call the police and pull the alarm, etc. I don't think anybody has compiled anything. Municipalities struggle to approve these half assed measures. BTW, surveillance and guards is by design, I think you are wrongly assuming a building will be more secure by itself than a system of security measures. We cannot survive alone in this world, no matter how much technology you have.
Jun 16, 23 12:39 pm ·
·
luvu
Reminded me of gated-private residence in the US/
South Africa…different approach/ same principle as a concrete bunker
Chad's wildfire graphic reminds me that wildfire danger is an aspect of defensive housing that has been wildly employed and codified in the required use of non-combustible materials and fuel-free zones around structures within the wildland-urban interface. We are also now defending ourselves from poor air quality and viruses with filtration systems and better circulation. Defense isn't primarily from the bad guy. All building is in some sense a defense against the world.
I agree but I wouldn't say we're 'defending' ourselves from poor air quality, viruses, ect. We're mitigating our exposure to such things. That's not defense, it's containment. Defense is the active resistance to a threat.
Jun 15, 23 1:01 pm ·
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JonathanLivingston
I'd prefer to settle on resilience, and firmness of commodity.
Jun 15, 23 9:24 pm ·
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Wood Guy
"Firmness of commodity" is an interesting phrase and I'm not sure what it means. Can you explain?
Naw, it's referring to the durability of the market based economy.
In all seriousness: it's from Vitruvius's Ten Books on Architecture, and it's supposed to be firmness + commodity + delight = good building.
It's still arch speak though . . .
Jun 16, 23 10:32 am ·
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JonathanLivingston
I was referring more to durability both physically and economically both as it pertains to architecture as defensive. Structures must endure to have value and as such since before vitruvious been defensive. A conversation about increasing the defensive, resilient and enduring nature of how we build is interesting to me. It's tright when reduced to defense from bullets.
Bin Laden’s compound is like a small military base. What’s interesting is how much of the infrastructure was protection against intelligence, not just physical security, which in his case could not be utilized for fear of tipping off US intelligence. I believe he rarely went outside for fear of US drone surveillance. Another interesting topic of discussion...design against surveillance.
Considering that the vast majority of people in the world already have a smartphone and social media I wouldn't concern yourself with trying to limit surveillance. Just a though . . .
Jun 15, 23 6:14 pm ·
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jrkettle
Oh man, so true. There's so much metadata collected. Certainly beyond my comprehension, but I'm sure there are ways to combat collection.
1.End all the wars. 2. design beautiful enriching communities that will allow kids to grow up with a moral compass and appreciation for life and not start new wars.
You can’t end religions without totalitarianism, and you can’t have totalitarianism without violence so that is untenable. Also, Not a good idea. Then humans will create secular religions like wokeism. Religion is a positive thing when not infected with fundamentalist ideology. Fundamentalism is kept in check with exposure to a diversity of ideas. A diversity of ideas is made possible by a culture that upholds freedom of speech and expression.
Jun 15, 23 2:26 pm ·
·
____
Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.
Isn't the practice of acknowledging and trying to stop prejudice and discrimination (wokism) a diverse idea? Also religions are by definition totalitarianism. You end religion / totalitarianism with education and critical thinking. Nice try though x-jla. Feel free to comment and have the last word but you reasoning is flawed and I'm not going to argue with you about this. It's a waste of time.
That’s not what wokeism is, and everyone knows it.
Jun 15, 23 4:37 pm ·
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x-jla
“Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.”. Chad responded with a bigoted post about Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians. That’s ok though…?
“Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.”. Chad responded with a bigoted post about Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians. That’s ok though…?
I did nothing of the sort. By the way your forgot:
“End all religions” is not judgmental towards religious communities? Why wouldn’t you want to end them if you didn’t believe that they are a force of negative?
Jun 15, 23 4:43 pm ·
·
x-jla
This type of talk has been We
callously
Jun 15, 23 4:44 pm ·
·
x-jla
*accepted for so long that we forgot why it’s wrong…not trying to down this rabbit hole though, so I’ll leave it here…
I was brought up Catholic. I saw a George Carlin bit and now I pray to Joe Pesci. I've found my prayers are answered at the same rate between god and Joe. I'll stick with Joe.
That certainly would be a world I’d like to live in. Unfortunately, humans exist and have waged war since the birth of mankind. Maybe speaking softly and carrying a big stick is not a bad idea? Interesting how the most peaceful time in human history corresponds to the existence of the atom bomb.
Jun 15, 23 6:13 pm ·
·
____
jrkettle, you must be new around here. This person only cam
e here to to shitpost on your thread about the culture war.
Jun 15, 23 6:31 pm ·
·
jrkettle
@Arch2 - how could you tell? Also seems like besides Wood Guy, I'm the only one on Archinect who thinks about this.
"That’s not what wokeism is, and everyone knows it."
Do you ever wonder why you get the reaction you get? It's because you believe deeply in conservative media bogeymen and that is not a reasonable place that thoughtful people start from.
[basic thesis ends here; start of TLDR; apologies for the wall of text]
"Wokeism" isn't an incisive analysis of movements in the American culture. It isn't a "secular religion." It is an invented partisan concept created to rile up the selfish & small minded to vote against The Other.
Even if it starts to define some metaphorical extreme that fits an emotional truth for a segment of society, reasonable people still understand that it is a fundamentally a pushed narrative for political convenience. It is not supported by significant facts or cultural movements of extensive legislation to suppress white christians, traditional marriage, female sports, children's social studies, white blue collar jobs, etc, etc.
No one was teaching 2nd graders CRT when duped parents went enraged to their school board meetings to stop it from happening.
There were not buses of antifa with bricks headed to your small town to riot and destroy your storefronts.
Realistic historical updates in social studies books to reflect the realities of segments of society not rich enough to record their own experiences at the time weren't being forced on children to shame their white heritage or Christian values.
What little evidence there is for supporting these notions amounts to a quantity that better fits an exception to a rule, rather than establishing a rule itself by extent of occurrences.
These sorts of events have been inflated into bogeymen to fire up a minority voting base to vote for selfish aims of a political entity.
OTOH there HAS been a notable quantity of very real legislative efforts (& even physical conflicts) trying to counter those make-believe movements.
Book bans, legislation eliminating transgender medical care, legislation changing abortion rules, anti-ERA legislation, political legislative retribution against private companies (Disney), legislative support for state sponsored religious issues (charter school funding, traditional marriage), etc.
These efforts are all spurred by fears created by the bogeyman you continue to support here. I can't help but wonder why you perpetuate those modern myths, if you are anywhere close to the reasonable person you hope to portray here.
If you don’t notice the trends, that’s your lack of ability or willingness to look, not my problem. Turn off the media outlets that have been wrong about nearly everything and tune into the ones that have been correct. That’s the logical thing to do.
Wokeism= Neo Marxism filtered through spoiled entitled narcissistic Americans. Wokeism is a mind virus that prevents critical thinking, nuance, and freedom of thought. Wokeism has been weaponized by the deep state and it’s corporate cronies, because at its core it does exactly what they want- stops the thinking and vilifies questioning when the woke invisibility cloak for the machine is activated. “Blowing up people is bad!” “Hey they / thems stop thinking like a far right and check out this rainbow tipped scud missle” - “wow cool! progress rocks!” Wokeism is part wacky junk, part nefarious , park anesthetic, part look at me, and 100% a rejection of the liberal principles that have guided the long arch of justice. That’s all have a great weekend!
im·plo·sion
/imˈplōZH(ə)n/
noun
an instance of something collapsing violently inward.
"the star undergoes a violent implosion caused by gravity"
a sudden failure or collapse of an organization or system.
"a global financial implosion"
Jun 17, 23 12:15 am ·
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x-jla
Like the ratings of MSM are imploding because they spread the neo Marxist woke mind virus and act as propagandists for the deep state and corporate cronies. I put it all together. Have a good weekend
Jun 17, 23 2:18 am ·
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b3tadine[sutures]
Jordan Peterson and The Woke Reaction
Jun 17, 23 11:47 am ·
·
____
It is hard to feel sorry for someone who self destructs after filling themselves with cruel and hateful rhetoric, beliefs, and views.
i've worked in countries where it is code required to include bomb shelters in the basements of public buildings. fully equipped with blast doors and internal ventilation and plumbing systems - and not small in area. there are places this is a real consideration.
Jun 16, 23 7:06 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
I’ve done blast rooms in my own backyard.
Jun 16, 23 7:44 pm ·
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midlander
why? you don't seem like the type to be a prepped.
Jun 16, 23 10:05 pm ·
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midlander
*prepper
Jun 16, 23 10:06 pm ·
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Non Sequitur
my backyard aka my city up here in the peaceful tundra-ridden maplesyrup land of eh... Done a few high security things, some with deliberate blast chambers and "relief" walls.
la Defence like Croydon? Ukraine leadership are racist scumbags, I'm from where I'm from and I think they're both working together. Offensive scumbag photo op what the fuck are the red urns about?
Jun 17, 23 7:14 pm ·
·
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Homes Built for Defense?
With the atrocities being committed in Ukraine over the last 12+ months, I couldn't help but wonder how architectural design could play a roll in defending Ukrainian soldiers and citizens. I've been reading U.S. military field manuals regarding urban warfare and defense and it seems like there's a roll for design to play in making buildings more secure and easier to defend by allowing clear lines of fire, unbreachable entries and exits, cover and concealment, etc. I'm curious if anyone has experience or knowledge on designing military installments or defensive structures, or just general good ideas and practices when designing for military defense.
I'd also look at any modern school design that isn't an open campus. They are surprisingly secure and defendable from both external and internal threats.
Good point on the modern school design. Do you happen to have any experience in this typology?
I have about 15 years experience designing K-12 schools.
It's not about making a 'hardened' building.
It's mainly about controlling access into the building and site once the school day has started. In addition you need to think about eliminating 'blind spots' within the building where people could hide around a corner. You have to balance this with not having long, uninterrupted corridors where someone could stand at one end and turn the corridor into a shooting range. Ultimately you'll work closely with the school districts security department to determine what their preferences are.
All of his can be done while still creating an open campus feel with ample access to daylight and views.
Interesting point with the blind spots and uninterrupted corners. A similar strategy is common in trench warfare where trenches are zig zagged to protect against enemy fire down the trench. Your point on integrating these features into an open campus feel is well taken. I believe many of these security features are quite innocuous to the untrained eye.
For housing you can also look to Israel. I remember seeing floor plans for a new condo project and all the units had safe rooms towards the centre of the building, I'm assuming not to hide from intruders but away from the perimeter that could be damaged from missiles.
Also I remember this project:
https://www.kwkpromes.pl/en/sa...
man, you have to have a bad past to need that house.
Israel is probably the most relevant case study, all things considered. Yes, the Konieczny project is a modern home within a turtle shell, but also quite out of touch with the masses. I’m curious if there are more economical strategies than 2’ thick concrete walls everywhere.
As an architect specializing in housing, this thread makes me incredibly sad. Housing should be connected to the community, not a fortress of solitude. If we try to make housing fortress-like, much like we're attempting with schools (instead of addressing the REAL problem), it's only going to make the built environment worse.
I too am saddened by the war in Ukraine, which is I posed the question. We should strive to connect communities, but in extraneous circumstances, should we not also consider the role design may play in saving lives? Certainly these concepts are not applicable for peaceful nations, but for those whose lives are currently at risk, I ask which is more important, safety or community connectivity? And as architects, shouldn’t we be asking, why not both? Furthermore, what role does design play for the soldiers who are not residing in these structures, but using them as cover against an invading force? I'm curious, given your housing specialization, if you are aware of any strategies to address this design problem?
It’s not a design problem. It’s a social/economical/political issue that cannot be solved by design. Suggesting that we ought to design housing in a way that they can also double up as protective cover for shooting up enemies is back-ass-backwards. Counter point, what if the enemy uses said protective houses to shield themselves while shooting?
In a warzone aren't all buildings including the ones designed for defense going to be a pile of rubble anyway?
It’s a design problem that has persisted since the dawn of man, the reason for forts, castles, bunkers, the maginot line. It certainly would be nice to live in a world without war, but until that happens physical defense will remain relevant. In addressing your counterpoint, my reading suggested a defensive force in an urban environment has superior tactical and strategic advantage, to which properly designed cover can assist in stemming an attack. Hence why it is observed an attacking force requires a numerical advantage of over 6 to 1 to have a chance at success. Should the building be abandoned, sabotage is the standard operating procedure. See Germany’s retreat from Naples to Rome in the fall of 1943.
@Arch2 Not in all instances. Often times civilian casualties are to be avoided, in which case, door to door clearing is the MO, such as in the battle of Fallujah in November of 2004.
I once had a decorative metal type sales rep come in for chat and I was shocked when he apologized for only having his USA marketing brochures. You see, a significant portion of the products shown were high security fencing and other aggressive-passive defence fixtures. I can’t imagine working with such mindset. Refuge-camp style detention fencing was old proudly covered too
Give me a good ol’fashioned crocodile infested moat and I’ll be a sound sleeper.
We need to be able to keep out all the people with guns.
Checks the news.... how's that working out for y'all?
No mass shooting today, they're prepping for war with Canada, and their wildfire terror campaign.
Yup. Our country is gearing up for a war with the Canadian wildfires by shooting all those arrogant Canadian moose.
We are just working on our campfire badge
Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges!
Are you all working on your campfire badge at the same time Almosthip?
Also I thought all Canadian children were born knowing how to:
b3ta - I read that with the accent . . .
More like a competition between the provinces. British Columbia keeps on hot boxing their province, but Alberta wants to be the best and wont be out done by BC ever. Ontario and Quebec both think they have the best fires, because they don't count anything farther west than lake Superior as important enough to even matter. Its a tight race at the moment
That's it, we need to get your PM to build a wall around Alberta.
Also as someone from Minnesota I view all provinces except the Northwest Territories to be our hat and symbolically just part of us. Ontario and Quebec are just confused French people who got lost and can't find their way home.
I consider lake superior "north". hehe. Fire smoke was pretty heavy last week tho.
I consider Lake Superior to be east of me. Always has, even when I lived on it's shore.
Our air quality yesterday in Grande Prairie was posted as 11 on a scale of 1-10
Next time ask those security fencing guys for their South African installs/products for a real shock factor.
Almosthip:
jamesmackey - a colleague of mine is from South Africa. The stories she can tell . . . yikes!
Chad - I like how your map cuts off Ontario and the Rest of Canada like its not even there
That's cuz it's a map of the wildfires. Also I refuse to include Quebec in Canada. ;)
Here is a more current map of the Canadian wildfires showing more of Canada.
.
JOHNSON!
I think about this a lot, but less for military-style defense (though I do think about that) but more for the coming changes that catastrophic climate disruption are already starting to bring: temperatures higher or lower than normal, rain events either stronger than normal or non-existent, disruption in power supplies and communication.
So true. We continue to develop in areas that are more prone to natural disasters and subsidize insurance to allow financial feasibility. It seems like the cheaper option is to relocate development to safer areas, but its a bit difficult to move a city. I'm curious about your thoughts on military-style defense. Care to share here, or DM?
take a look into high-end single-fmaily residential buildings in Mexico City. Many of them turn their backs to the city and create refuge. Makes for terrible neighborhoods. I'm sure many other global cities do the same.
yes, the proliferation of fenced-in communities has been happening since the 90's in south America too, I worked in several in Argentina and Chile. Most of them have a small army to secure the perimeter, but no services inside, so everybody goes in and out all day, that makes it very hard to keep secure. Plus, they all need maids and chauffeurs and landscapers, so it's like a sponge. Bad neighborhoods for sure.
I hadn’t thought of this angle. Very interesting. I wonder how much of their security is design, and how much is merely surveillance and guards. Let me know if you have any sources for info on this, my quick search shows little material.
it's not written anywhere, it's just a reaction to the inoperancy of police, a yard wall 12 ft tall will effectively stop a robber, an unarmed guard will call the police and pull the alarm, etc. I don't think anybody has compiled anything. Municipalities struggle to approve these half assed measures. BTW, surveillance and guards is by design, I think you are wrongly assuming a building will be more secure by itself than a system of security measures. We cannot survive alone in this world, no matter how much technology you have.
Reminded me of gated-private residence in the US/
South Africa…different approach/ same principle as a concrete bunker
Chad's wildfire graphic reminds me that wildfire danger is an aspect of defensive housing that has been wildly employed and codified in the required use of non-combustible materials and fuel-free zones around structures within the wildland-urban interface. We are also now defending ourselves from poor air quality and viruses with filtration systems and better circulation. Defense isn't primarily from the bad guy. All building is in some sense a defense against the world.
I agree but I wouldn't say we're 'defending' ourselves from poor air quality, viruses, ect. We're mitigating our exposure to such things. That's not defense, it's containment. Defense is the active resistance to a threat.
I'd prefer to settle on resilience, and firmness of commodity.
"Firmness of commodity" is an interesting phrase and I'm not sure what it means. Can you explain?
^arch speak for durability
Naw, it's referring to the durability of the market based economy.
In all seriousness: it's from Vitruvius's Ten Books on Architecture, and it's supposed to be firmness + commodity + delight = good building.
It's still arch speak though . . .
I was referring more to durability both physically and economically both as it pertains to architecture as defensive. Structures must endure to have value and as such since before vitruvious been defensive. A conversation about increasing the defensive, resilient and enduring nature of how we build is interesting to me. It's tright when reduced to defense from bullets.
Still arch speak. ;)
Are you being defensive?
NYT had a good little article on the Bin Laden compound for your research. The same concept but protecting American antagonist rather than Russian: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/02/world/asia/abbottabad-map-of-where-osama-bin-laden-was-killed.html
Bin Laden’s compound is like a small military base. What’s interesting is how much of the infrastructure was protection against intelligence, not just physical security, which in his case could not be utilized for fear of tipping off US intelligence. I believe he rarely went outside for fear of US drone surveillance. Another interesting topic of discussion...design against surveillance.
Considering that the vast majority of people in the world already have a smartphone and social media I wouldn't concern yourself with trying to limit surveillance. Just a though . . .
Oh man, so true. There's so much metadata collected. Certainly beyond my comprehension, but I'm sure there are ways to combat collection.
1.End all the wars. 2. design beautiful enriching communities that will allow kids to grow up with a moral compass and appreciation for life and not start new wars.
You forgot one - end all religions.
You can’t end religions without totalitarianism, and you can’t have totalitarianism without violence so that is untenable. Also, Not a good idea. Then humans will create secular religions like wokeism. Religion is a positive thing when not infected with fundamentalist ideology. Fundamentalism is kept in check with exposure to a diversity of ideas. A diversity of ideas is made possible by a culture that upholds freedom of speech and expression.
Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.
Isn't the practice of acknowledging and trying to stop prejudice and discrimination (wokism) a diverse idea? Also religions are by definition totalitarianism. You end religion / totalitarianism with education and critical thinking. Nice try though x-jla. Feel free to comment and have the last word but you reasoning is flawed and I'm not going to argue with you about this. It's a waste of time.
That’s not what wokeism is, and everyone knows it.
“Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.”. Chad responded with a bigoted post about Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians. That’s ok though…?
x-jla wrote:
“Can't have a thread without you trying to start a war of words. What a sick puppy.”. Chad responded with a bigoted post about Jewish people, Muslims, Buddhists, and Christians. That’s ok though…?
I did nothing of the sort. By the way your forgot:
Hinduism
Islam
Jainism
Sikhism
Baha'i
Confucianism
Taoism
Zoroastrianism
Shinto
and the other 2,880 or so . . . .
“End all religions” is not judgmental towards religious communities? Why wouldn’t you want to end them if you didn’t believe that they are a force of negative?
This type of talk has been We
callously
*accepted for so long that we forgot why it’s wrong…not trying to down this rabbit hole though, so I’ll leave it here…
Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Pastafarian for the win! Everyone else is just wasting their time with fake invisible friends.
I was brought up Catholic. I saw a George Carlin bit and now I pray to Joe Pesci. I've found my prayers are answered at the same rate between god and Joe. I'll stick with Joe.
That certainly would be a world I’d like to live in. Unfortunately, humans exist and have waged war since the birth of mankind. Maybe speaking softly and carrying a big stick is not a bad idea? Interesting how the most peaceful time in human history corresponds to the existence of the atom bomb.
jrkettle, you must be new around here. This person only cam
e here to to shitpost on your thread about the culture war.
@Arch2 - how could you tell? Also seems like besides Wood Guy, I'm the only one on Archinect who thinks about this.
"That’s not what wokeism is, and everyone knows it."
Do you ever wonder why you get the reaction you get? It's because you believe deeply in conservative media bogeymen and that is not a reasonable place that thoughtful people start from.
[basic thesis ends here; start of TLDR; apologies for the wall of text]
"Wokeism" isn't an incisive analysis of movements in the American culture. It isn't a "secular religion." It is an invented partisan concept created to rile up the selfish & small minded to vote against The Other.
Even if it starts to define some metaphorical extreme that fits an emotional truth for a segment of society, reasonable people still understand that it is a fundamentally a pushed narrative for political convenience. It is not supported by significant facts or cultural movements of extensive legislation to suppress white christians, traditional marriage, female sports, children's social studies, white blue collar jobs, etc, etc.
No one was teaching 2nd graders CRT when duped parents went enraged to their school board meetings to stop it from happening.
There were not buses of antifa with bricks headed to your small town to riot and destroy your storefronts.
Realistic historical updates in social studies books to reflect the realities of segments of society not rich enough to record their own experiences at the time weren't being forced on children to shame their white heritage or Christian values.
What little evidence there is for supporting these notions amounts to a quantity that better fits an exception to a rule, rather than establishing a rule itself by extent of occurrences.
These sorts of events have been inflated into bogeymen to fire up a minority voting base to vote for selfish aims of a political entity.
OTOH there HAS been a notable quantity of very real legislative efforts (& even physical conflicts) trying to counter those make-believe movements.
Book bans, legislation eliminating transgender medical care, legislation changing abortion rules, anti-ERA legislation, political legislative retribution against private companies (Disney), legislative support for state sponsored religious issues (charter school funding, traditional marriage), etc.
These efforts are all spurred by fears created by the bogeyman you continue to support here. I can't help but wonder why you perpetuate those modern myths, if you are anywhere close to the reasonable person you hope to portray here.
[end of TLDR; again my apologies to all!]
That is fake news.
If you don’t notice the trends, that’s your lack of ability or willingness to look, not my problem. Turn off the media outlets that have been wrong about nearly everything and tune into the ones that have been correct. That’s the logical thing to do.
that response is perfect; both of them -- bravo
have a great weekend
Wokeism= Neo Marxism filtered through spoiled entitled narcissistic Americans. Wokeism is a mind virus that prevents critical thinking, nuance, and freedom of thought. Wokeism has been weaponized by the deep state and it’s corporate cronies, because at its core it does exactly what they want- stops the thinking and vilifies questioning when the woke invisibility cloak for the machine is activated. “Blowing up people is bad!” “Hey they / thems stop thinking like a far right and check out this rainbow tipped scud missle” - “wow cool! progress rocks!” Wokeism is part wacky junk, part nefarious , park anesthetic, part look at me, and 100% a rejection of the liberal principles that have guided the long arch of justice. That’s all have a great weekend!
Ok Jordan. Get back to your safe space, snowflake.
well, that’s…uh, something…
neo-Marxism AND corporate cronies together (!?!) / mind virus / deep state / vilifies questioning
…and that’s a…
BINGO!!!
im·plo·sion
/imˈplōZH(ə)n/
noun
an instance of something collapsing violently inward.
"the star undergoes a violent implosion caused by gravity"
a sudden failure or collapse of an organization or system.
"a global financial implosion"
Like the ratings of MSM are imploding because they spread the neo Marxist woke mind virus and act as propagandists for the deep state and corporate cronies. I put it all together. Have a good weekend
It is hard to feel sorry for someone who self destructs after filling themselves with cruel and hateful rhetoric, beliefs, and views.
Yeah, but what's even sadder is that it's parroting such a weak minded clown that is Jordan Peterson. He's on the brink of a total mental collapse.
Arch2, can you give one example of a hateful belief or view that I’ve expressed?
All of them.
You need to get off of here for your own good.
somebody is thinking about this actually https://sprayfinishingstore.co...
i've worked in countries where it is code required to include bomb shelters in the basements of public buildings. fully equipped with blast doors and internal ventilation and plumbing systems - and not small in area. there are places this is a real consideration.
I’ve done blast rooms in my own backyard.
why? you don't seem like the type to be a prepped.
*prepper
my backyard aka my city up here in the peaceful tundra-ridden maplesyrup land of eh... Done a few high security things, some with deliberate blast chambers and "relief" walls.
@Midlander - do you mind sharing what countries have code required bomb shelters?
What is this thread about? Oh, ok.
la Defence like Croydon? Ukraine leadership are racist scumbags, I'm from where I'm from and I think they're both working together. Offensive scumbag photo op what the fuck are the red urns about?
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