I completed a MLA degree 4 years ago in a state university, and after working as an LA working on public projects, now I’m trying to switch my niche to Urban Design.
Honestly does anyone know if this is a higher paying career? Does it worth to pay 8-16k to get another master degree in UPenn or GSAPP? All I want at the beginning is to work on high profile projects... But I got to balance my check in the end.
That’s what I thought. I’m trying to explore my options to see if that worth the effort. I’m very into design and community
development.
Mar 12, 21 9:40 pm ·
·
square.
although 8k (total?) isn't a horrible price.. just the missed wages. probably more fun than working though. hell i'd get a "useless" degree in philosophy or something for 8k.
Urban design? Ha.... sure, good idea. What’s next, a weekend-long barber certificate? Very few gigs available for urban design grads. Should at least consider urban planning if you want a chance.
Mar 12, 21 6:56 pm ·
·
O.Owl
Well I’m sure there are companies acquiring UD positions and I’m not worrying about finding a job, especially with my previous working experience. On the other hand, the program in UPenn is actually a Master of City Planing Degree, but I’m not very familiar with the options out there for a MCP grads. Will
my LA background be helpful?
Mar 12, 21 9:17 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
Well, my office advertises itself as one that offers urban design, and we've even won awards in that category yet, not a single staff has urban design "credentials". So, in the UD world, you're competing against more than your UD colleagues since anyone with a real architecture background is likely equal (or better) suited for that role.
i have no idea about pay, but i work in a company with about 1000 architects, 200 engineers, and 20 each landscape and urban designers. it is a real job, and what they do is useful on large city-sponsored development projects. but it is a niche and i'm not sure any more stable or remunerative than LA.
otoh if you can get a top-tier degree for inly 8k ( which seems surprising!) that alone will help your career prospects, at least in big offices that need to list team member credentials on rfps. if the price is really that low for you i'd say it's worth it. be aware the bigger career opportunities will be for work in fast growing cities in asia and the middle east.
I feel like I made a comment and it's now missing. Either way, unless you have that money in cash, DO NOT. DO. NOT. TAKE. OUT. TENS. OF THOUSANDS. OF. DOLLARS. IN. LOANS. FOR. SCHOOL. Unless it's medicine. That piece of paper will never pay for itself, and you'll be financially burdened for decades.
Never. They will never pay back for landscape architecture. Are you kidding? Your salary would have to double to even pay that off in a decade (and you won't get a single penny more for an Ivy League LA degree. I cannot be any clearer about this.
i know it's sadly the norm- but trust me, that is an absolutely crushing amount of debt, especially since you already have the masters and are reaping the benefits of a graduate degree. you would essentially be getting a redundant degree and making a parallel move. just do the latter without the degree.
i graduated with about 60k from grad and it has required a ton of work, patience and dealing with many days of some regret to get to a place where paying off the debt is a realistic thing.
i was even considered one of the lucky ones.. my friends who didn't receive any aid essentially have no realistic hope of paying off the debt, let alone thinking of buying a home or any of the other things in life that require debt.
Thanks for the reply, I’m not very familiar with the loan so I didn’t really consider the pay back details - but you’re right, just paying back the cost by the salary will take more than a whooping decades. I’m very stunned right now how ridiculous this is.
just some quick math- i had closer to 100k total from undergrad and grad. total time will be 12-13 years, starting low but ramping up to 10 years @ 1000+ a month. and remember, you need to pay to live too- the burden is now only starting to become bearable for me 5 years post graduate degree.
yup. all things i wish someone had walked me through prior to school.. again i am fortunate and am able to pay this off, so i don't regret it overall, but it seems crazy in your situation to put this on yourself.
Can you do Urban planning with the training and experience you already have? Is the lack of a degree a barrier to taking on more Urban design work?
Also what do you define, on the granular every day level, the difference between Landscape Architecture, Urban Planning and Urban Design?
I am a little skeptical that Landscape Architects don't have the skills and knowledge to be good Urban Designers, but it depends on what you define as the difference between Urban Design and Landscape Architecture.
My advice, seek out an Urban Designer ask them to give you some advice on what you need to break into the field.
I think the biggest difference in the real job is the LAs are more focused on developing a solid design and getting the thing built, while urban designers do work on the physical design but their design is more for reference for future developments and they don't have to work on details and work with construction.
Mar 15, 21 1:55 pm ·
·
O.Owl
Anybody corrects me if I'm wrong - The planners work on a higher level and provide strategies and policies to guide future development on a larger scale, they talk about the economy, housing, and social structure. They don't really do designs. I'm assisting the planners in my office to do some basic urban design, but sometimes I don't feel confident enough to make decisions on my own
.
Mar 15, 21 1:59 pm ·
·
midlander
in my experience the terms get mixed up a lot - the relevant studio in my office is called Planning and Urban Design - but this is generally correct. Planning is about studying financial impacts, evaluating the project within a local and regional economic context, and coordinating development strategies. UD is more about defining the spaces and physical connections between built areas. Planning is abstract; UD is concrete (but theoretical since it's just a projection of what could be built not a real design).
there is a lot of crosses experience in this area too. many of the PUD team are trained as architects and simply work in that specialty based on their own interests and experience. There are many whose backgrounds include both LA and UD or arch. To answer your original question, you're not crazy - it's a very common career path for both LA and architects, usually with a graduate degree. But it's not obviously higher paying** and largely resembles the day to day work of other designers; borrowing large amounts to study it won't necessarily lead to a big jump in salary. ** there are roles for P/UD in big developers to help study site acquisition and development strategies - these roles can pay well.
Yes! I actually found out that a lot of leading designers in big design firms have multiple master's degrees, and that's what I'm referring to...I'm not expecting to be paid a lot more but want to work on more exciting projects. Anyway, thanks for the insight :)
Thanks for the input from all. I made my decision to go to GSAPP and to start a new chapter of my life in NYC. It's a 3-semester quick boost to my knowledge and I believe it will contribute to my life in the future far beyond several decades - which means I won't regret it.
For the most discussed topic - financially I'm not taking debt, however, I am spending the money I could use in the future. Knowing all the financial costs that will linger for a long time, I can only use my time wisely when I'm in the program.
* It's a personal decision so it's not to be judged or for others' reference. Thank you again!
Am I crazy?
I completed a MLA degree 4 years ago in a state university, and after working as an LA working on public projects, now I’m trying to switch my niche to Urban Design.
Honestly does anyone know if this is a higher paying career? Does it worth to pay 8-16k to get another master degree in UPenn or GSAPP? All I want at the beginning is to work on high profile projects... But I got to balance my check in the end.
Any advise??
You'd be paying a high price for a sheet of fancy paper and (at best) access to some contacts.
That’s what I thought. I’m trying to explore my options to see if that worth the effort. I’m very into design and community
development.
although 8k (total?) isn't a horrible price.. just the missed wages. probably more fun than working though. hell i'd get a "useless" degree in philosophy or something for 8k.
Urban design? Ha.... sure, good idea. What’s next, a weekend-long barber certificate? Very few gigs available for urban design grads. Should at least consider urban planning if you want a chance.
Well I’m sure there are companies acquiring UD positions and I’m not worrying about finding a job, especially with my previous working experience. On the other hand, the program in UPenn is actually a Master of City Planing Degree, but I’m not very familiar with the options out there for a MCP grads. Will
my LA background be helpful?
Well, my office advertises itself as one that offers urban design, and we've even won awards in that category yet, not a single staff has urban design "credentials". So, in the UD world, you're competing against more than your UD colleagues since anyone with a real architecture background is likely equal (or better) suited for that role.
i have no idea about pay, but i work in a company with about 1000 architects, 200 engineers, and 20 each landscape and urban designers. it is a real job, and what they do is useful on large city-sponsored development projects. but it is a niche and i'm not sure any more stable or remunerative than LA.
otoh if you can get a top-tier degree for inly 8k ( which seems surprising!) that alone will help your career prospects, at least in big offices that need to list team member credentials on rfps. if the price is really that low for you i'd say it's worth it. be aware the bigger career opportunities will be for work in fast growing cities in asia and the middle east.
Thanks it’s very helpful!
Correction: it’s 80k-160k , not 8-16k .
I feel like I made a comment and it's now missing. Either way, unless you have that money in cash, DO NOT. DO. NOT. TAKE. OUT. TENS. OF THOUSANDS. OF. DOLLARS. IN. LOANS. FOR. SCHOOL. Unless it's medicine. That piece of paper will never pay for itself, and you'll be financially burdened for decades.
+1 to above comment.
take my comment back holy shit absolutely not.
80k is ridiculous and a waste of money. $160k is fucking ridiculous and you'd be a class A fool to take out loans for that amount for MLA.
But that's the cost for average Ivy Leagues... I'm trying to make sense of that as well, maybe the school names will pay back, but sounds very hard.
Never. They will never pay back for landscape architecture. Are you kidding? Your salary would have to double to even pay that off in a decade (and you won't get a single penny more for an Ivy League LA degree. I cannot be any clearer about this.
i know it's sadly the norm- but trust me, that is an absolutely crushing amount of debt, especially since you already have the masters and are reaping the benefits of a graduate degree. you would essentially be getting a redundant degree and making a parallel move. just do the latter without the degree.
i graduated with about 60k from grad and it has required a ton of work, patience and dealing with many days of some regret to get to a place where paying off the debt is a realistic thing.
i was even considered one of the lucky ones.. my friends who didn't receive any aid essentially have no realistic hope of paying off the debt, let alone thinking of buying a home or any of the other things in life that require debt.
Thanks for the reply, I’m not very familiar with the loan so I didn’t really consider the pay back details - but you’re right, just paying back the cost by the salary will take more than a whooping decades. I’m very stunned right now how ridiculous this is.
just some quick math- i had closer to 100k total from undergrad and grad. total time will be 12-13 years, starting low but ramping up to 10 years @ 1000+ a month. and remember, you need to pay to live too- the burden is now only starting to become bearable for me 5 years post graduate degree.
That’s crazy to manage as a LA
yup. all things i wish someone had walked me through prior to school.. again i am fortunate and am able to pay this off, so i don't regret it overall, but it seems crazy in your situation to put this on yourself.
Can you do Urban planning with the training and experience you already have? Is the lack of a degree a barrier to taking on more Urban design work?
Also what do you define, on the granular every day level, the difference between Landscape Architecture, Urban Planning and Urban Design?
I am a little skeptical that Landscape Architects don't have the skills and knowledge to be good Urban Designers, but it depends on what you define as the difference between Urban Design and Landscape Architecture.
My advice, seek out an Urban Designer ask them to give you some advice on what you need to break into the field.
Hope this helps
Over and OUT
Peter N
Thanks for the advice!
I think the biggest difference in the real job is the LAs are more focused on developing a solid design and getting the thing built, while urban designers do work on the physical design but their design is more for reference for future developments and they don't have to work on details and work with construction.
Anybody corrects me if I'm wrong - The planners work on a higher level and provide strategies and policies to guide future development on a larger scale, they talk about the economy, housing, and social structure. They don't really do designs. I'm assisting the planners in my office to do some basic urban design, but sometimes I don't feel confident enough to make decisions on my own .
in my experience the terms get mixed up a lot - the relevant studio in my office is called Planning and Urban Design - but this is generally correct. Planning is about studying financial impacts, evaluating the project within a local and regional economic context, and coordinating development strategies. UD is more about defining the spaces and physical connections between built areas. Planning is abstract; UD is concrete (but theoretical since it's just a projection of what could be built not a real design).
there is a lot of crosses experience in this area too. many of the PUD team are trained as architects and simply work in that specialty based on their own interests and experience. There are many whose backgrounds include both LA and UD or arch. To answer your original question, you're not crazy - it's a very common career path for both LA and architects, usually with a graduate degree. But it's not obviously higher paying** and largely resembles the day to day work of other designers; borrowing large amounts to study it won't necessarily lead to a big jump in salary. ** there are roles for P/UD in big developers to help study site acquisition and development strategies - these roles can pay well.
Yes! I actually found out that a lot of leading designers in big design firms have multiple master's degrees, and that's what I'm referring to...I'm not expecting to be paid a lot more but want to work on more exciting projects. Anyway, thanks for the insight :)
O.Owl, nothing is higher than an architect
lol you must be proud of your job!
I'm just another Art Vandelay
Loved your extension to the Guggenheim...
It really didn't take that long either
Thanks for the input from all. I made my decision to go to GSAPP and to start a new chapter of my life in NYC. It's a 3-semester quick boost to my knowledge and I believe it will contribute to my life in the future far beyond several decades - which means I won't regret it.
For the most discussed topic - financially I'm not taking debt, however, I am spending the money I could use in the future. Knowing all the financial costs that will linger for a long time, I can only use my time wisely when I'm in the program.
* It's a personal decision so it's not to be judged or for others' reference. Thank you again!
thanks for the update; glad to hear you're not taking on debt, at the least. and welcome to nyc!
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