Hi there, I'm looking to study M.Arch at a Canadian university and eventually work and move here as well. I currently hold an Indian B.Arch degree.
I've lurked here for quite a while and heard (often through Non Sequitur's posts) that:
Waterloo is one of the best (even though its fairly isolated),
McGill is often second and
Carleton and
Ryserson lower still.
I'd like to know what the reasoning behind this categorization is, if possible though.
I am feeling partial to McGill since its in Montreal and the vibe is great, the music scene is better (I'm a musician on the side) - it must be in shambles because of COVID now, though. French may be a hindrance there but I learnt it in school till grade 8th even though I could use a major refresher.
I'd like to go to Waterloo, but it being in the middle of nowhere may be an issue with respect to music and the lack of a vibrant city life. Is it that much better than McGill?
Also what about UofT, UoBC, UofM, Calgary and Dalhousie? Are they worth considering?
TL;DR final questions:
A. Which universities do employers consider the best to hire from?
B. What is the sort of acceptance rate at these universities and should I include a 'lower ranking' university such as UofT to improve my chances of getting admitted somewhere?
Sorry about the barrage of questions and thanks for any help you guys can offer :)
Employers care little about the name on the degree and you should care more about the professional education, not to hang out in music venues.
With the obvious out of the way, Loo and McGill are top dogs, then it matters little as the rest sorta all become equivalent. UofT is at the bottom because they admit too many students from their piss poor bachelor program so it waters down the quality of the M.arch entrance group. Look at the research topics of the graduate teaching staff and pick according to your interests.
As an international applicant, ask yourself if this is worth all the trouble. Tuition is super high and acceptance rates are low. Think a few dozen students per term and you're in competition with a tonne of applications. Some schools will even run interviews.
Best advice is aim for schools in cities/provinces where you would like to work/live in in the future. Canada is very big and every province has it's own peculiarities (Quebec being the worse).
Thanks for the reply Non. Its always illuminating reading one of your responses.
I know that the French barrier is one snag point in Quebec - both in terms of offices and work environment as well as interacting with construction workers and submitting approval drawings.
The other being a mix of lower earning potential and higher provincial income taxes.
Any other peculiarities that I'm not considering?
Thanks
Dec 13, 20 10:25 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
The French barrier is real and it takes more than a casual understanding to survive... It's also getting worse as the province becomes more and more militant in enforcing it. I'm french-speaking (primary tongue) and I often refuse to use while in quebec to spite them. I'm sure Aps below has more stories since he lives there. Anyways, taxes and earning potential are sorta of a wash all things considered. Quebec has some higher taxes and generally lower income but the province heavily subsidizes post-secondary education and childcare, for example, and no one pays for water service. Those are details tho, your real earning potential is directly linked to the skills you bring to an office.
Wife, who is English Quebecer - born in Montreal - tells me how back in the 80's Language Police would pop into offices unexpectedly, and without notice to make sure that software you were using in your computers was in French, and not in English. They fined companies that used English software. Now, you have to consider the fact that Quebec is supposed to be part of Canada - one country, but in reality they are not, and never really will be. Even Wills and Power of Attorneys done in other parts of Canada do not apply in Quebec. You have to re-do them in Quebec. They have their own separate immigration policy as well. In my opinion, they really should call it a day and separate. I would love to know how to speak French, but I cannot learn it - proper pronounciation is way too difficult for me. Montreal, as a city, is way more interesting than Toronto even if you do come across some surly service.
Potholes on Montreal streets! it's the World capital of potholes; I'm sure Kabul has better roads than Montreal does...be prepared to go though a bunch of wheels and tires in a year...and you can't sue the city for damage.
Also, services are becoming more and more difficult to get in English the further east you go in Montreal. Unfortunately, there is some discrimination going on by the French speaking Quebecers towards the English speaking people. The current Quebec governments is contemplating bring in more discriminatory measures. It has the makings of 1970's crisis all over again. Language police are at it again. I had a run-in with them at a Walmart parking lot of all things! Fucking racists bastards - told them that in English...they didn't like it!
Healthcare sucks as well..I've been waiting now for over three years to be assigned a family doctor...will probably either die of old age or move before I get one.
On the plus side, Quebec architects, and builders are far more creative when it comes to housing than their counterparts in Ontario or anywhere else in Canada. Authorities are also very loose when it comes to issuing building permits in flood plains, so be careful if you're buying a place or renting an apartment - make sure you don't get flooded! Taxes are a little higher than other places in Canada, but they have better wine selection in their stores than in Ontario.
Wow, damn interesting to see some very spirited discussion on this topic. For all its problems, why do those of you that stay in Québec still choose to do so? What makes it worth the trouble?
Dec 18, 20 5:27 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
I assume it’s the wine and cheese selection. Not really sure I see any other reason. They do have great ski hills, something Ontario lacks desperately... but in the end, you still have to bear the shame when admitting you live in Quebec.
Dec 18, 20 6:41 am ·
·
aranyakhurana
Hahahaha got it. Du vin, du fromage et les montagnes. Merci beaucoup.
Hi, I would suggest you to send an email to each program asking them if you are qualified to apply to their master program. I was also an international student interested in m.arch programs in Canada but some of them don't allow b.arch students to apply to their m.arch because there's already a CACB Certificate program for international architects.
Yes, I've looked into that as well.
don't qualify for BEFA since I haven't been out of school that long. However, I could get my Indian B.Arch. evaluated by CACB
[Sorry, that "enter to post" feature made me send the last comment]
Hi, thanks everyone for responding. I've looked into that as well.
I don't qualify for BEFA since I haven't been out of school that long.
However, I could get my Indian B.Arch. evaluated by CACB and if that works out, I would be equivalent to a freshly graduated Canadian M.Arch (Professional). Doing an M.Arch. in Canada would just duplicate a degree I already have (not to mention be suuper expensive) and be redundant unless I specialised in Landscape or Urban Design (post-professional) which I'm not particularly interested in.
The challenge then would be to break into the Architectural Intern job market to rack up my internship hours for licensing — seeing as how a Canadian schooled graduate familiar with the work culture, design typologies, bye-laws, etc would naturally be preferred by firms over me.
Would it be a good idea to train under a BIM or Construction management course to improve my chances of getting into a firm? And would I be able to work as an intern at a firm or be restricted to only architectural technologist/Construction management, so called 'lower ranked' jobs for lack of a better term?
Meaning, would a BIM/Construction management qualification be looked at as:
A. Wow this architectural intern has more specialised skills than a regular graduate
or
B. Let's hire this kid for less money and make him do work that no one else wants to?
Would that position allow me to rack up the hours in pursuit of a license?
Dec 18, 20 5:30 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
which position? why not both? That's what gets junior staff hired. It's not like you have experience in this country that you can leverage. Besides this, do not automatically assume that your degree will be considered equivalent. A accredited M.arch here deals with a lot of specific professional practice stuff as well as construction practice suitable for Canada. You will need to make a very strong case to the CACB so don't get your hopes up too quickly (it also costs a fair bit too).
1. The first question you will be asked by a Canadian employer will be, "How much Canadian experience do you have?"
2. The second question will be, "Do you know Revit/AutoCAD?"
3. The third question will be, "Are you willing to work weekends and evenings?"
4. The fourth question will be, "How much are you expecting to get paid?"
Those questions are a hint of what they expect out of you, and what kind of a position they offer you.
Your degree will matter little to them.
In terms of building technology, unless you already have Canadian experience, you will not be given responsibility to work on a project by yourself - you will be put on a team where, at least the Job Captain, will teach you/hold your hand. Learning Canadian building techniques/technology can take as many as five years, depending on the size of the company you work for, the projects you are put on, and the number of different projects the firm gets. You should familiarise yourself with wood frame construction, masonry veneer on structural steel studs, masonry veneer on masonry back-up, precast construction, steel siding construction, EIFS, and probably some more I cannot think of now. To help you with that, buy guides/manuals that are available from CMHC, CSSBI, and CMHC.
To get involved in Construction Management, you will have to get a few years of experience. The firm will not send you to the site unless they feel certain that you know Contracts, Construction Laws as well as building or construction technology.
Also, very importantly, if you are from outside of Canada (maybe India?), expect some form of discrimination. It may appear subtle or in-your-face, but you will come across it. This is why I recommend you look for a job where the firm is young with younger staff and management. More established, and older firms tend to be worse when it comes to that - you will be the last-in-first-out in them when work slows down, and it does slow down every 5-7 years in Canada, particularly in Toronto, Ontario. It's very much of a cyclical business here with many firms depending on either the Federal or Provincial spending/projects for jobs. Private sector has nearly vanished from Canadian construction/development, except for condominiums. Those are already handled by a few firms and it's very difficult for new ones to get such jobs.
All the experience you gain will be valuable one-way-or-another when it comes to registration. For specifics and guidance, contact OAA if you end up in Ontario for details or other governing bodies if you work in other provinces.
I'd answer those as none yet (unless part time jobs while studying count?), yes, yes and enough not to starve and still buy guitar strings.
Thanks for those resources, I'll study the crap out of them (and probably myself as well).
Yes, I've heard of the soft discrimination as well. I'm prepared to deal with it. I'm looking to work with smaller, more creative studios in either Ontario, Vancouver or Montreal. Will BIM/Revit knowledge and experience be relevant for those, though?
You've listed some very pertinent and helpful points. Thanks a ton!
Dec 19, 20 3:42 am ·
·
apscoradiales
Revit and AutoCAD are absolutely essential. You will never find a job in an architects office unless you know both.
By the way, ton is spellt "tonne" in Canada, so might as well learn some of the spelling too - we're more British English than American English.
Hahaha so are we here in India, being a former Brit colony. I was actually contemplating doing exactly that, just not habituated to doing so since we use the metric system and don't come across it much. Believe me I prefer 'colour' over the
other - frankly barbaric - spelling any day.
The best graduates I ever hired came out of Waterloo, but I have to say I have two young architects who came out of UBC right now and both are as much I could hope for, skilled, good experience, decent design skills and well tuned to the region we live and work. I agree that if you are planning to stick it out in Canada in the future consideration of getting educated the region you want to live is a good plan..... and by the way it's very busy out west right now!
Best M.Arch(Professional) Universities in Canada
Hi there, I'm looking to study M.Arch at a Canadian university and eventually work and move here as well. I currently hold an Indian B.Arch degree.
I've lurked here for quite a while and heard (often through Non Sequitur's posts) that:
I'd like to know what the reasoning behind this categorization is, if possible though.
I am feeling partial to McGill since its in Montreal and the vibe is great, the music scene is better (I'm a musician on the side) - it must be in shambles because of COVID now, though. French may be a hindrance there but I learnt it in school till grade 8th even though I could use a major refresher.
I'd like to go to Waterloo, but it being in the middle of nowhere may be an issue with respect to music and the lack of a vibrant city life. Is it that much better than McGill?
Also what about UofT, UoBC, UofM, Calgary and Dalhousie? Are they worth considering?
TL;DR final questions:
A. Which universities do employers consider the best to hire from?
B. What is the sort of acceptance rate at these universities and should I include a 'lower ranking' university such as UofT to improve my chances of getting admitted somewhere?
Sorry about the barrage of questions and thanks for any help you guys can offer :)
Employers care little about the name on the degree and you should care more about the professional education, not to hang out in music venues.
With the obvious out of the way, Loo and McGill are top dogs, then it matters little as the rest sorta all become equivalent. UofT is at the bottom because they admit too many students from their piss poor bachelor program so it waters down the quality of the M.arch entrance group. Look at the research topics of the graduate teaching staff and pick according to your interests.
As an international applicant, ask yourself if this is worth all the trouble. Tuition is super high and acceptance rates are low. Think a few dozen students per term and you're in competition with a tonne of applications. Some schools will even run interviews.
Best advice is aim for schools in cities/provinces where you would like to work/live in in the future. Canada is very big and every province has it's own peculiarities (Quebec being the worse).
Thanks for the reply Non. Its always illuminating reading one of your responses.
I know that the French barrier is one snag point in Quebec - both in terms of offices and work environment as well as interacting with construction workers and submitting approval drawings.
The other being a mix of lower earning potential and higher provincial income taxes.
Any other peculiarities that I'm not considering?
Thanks
The French barrier is real and it takes more than a casual understanding to survive... It's also getting worse as the province becomes more and more militant in enforcing it. I'm french-speaking (primary tongue) and I often refuse to use while in quebec to spite them. I'm sure Aps below has more stories since he lives there. Anyways, taxes and earning potential are sorta of a wash all things considered. Quebec has some higher taxes and generally lower income but the province heavily subsidizes post-secondary education and childcare, for example, and no one pays for water service. Those are details tho, your real earning potential is directly linked to the skills you bring to an office.
Wife, who is English Quebecer - born in Montreal - tells me how back in the 80's Language Police would pop into offices unexpectedly, and without notice to make sure that software you were using in your computers was in French, and not in English. They fined companies that used English software. Now, you have to consider the fact that Quebec is supposed to be part of Canada - one country, but in reality they are not, and never really will be. Even Wills and Power of Attorneys done in other parts of Canada do not apply in Quebec. You have to re-do them in Quebec. They have their own separate immigration policy as well. In my opinion, they really should call it a day and separate. I would love to know how to speak French, but I cannot learn it - proper pronounciation is way too difficult for me. Montreal, as a city, is way more interesting than Toronto even if you do come across some surly service.
Potholes on Montreal streets! it's the World capital of potholes; I'm sure Kabul has better roads than Montreal does...be prepared to go though a bunch of wheels and tires in a year...and you can't sue the city for damage.
Also, services are becoming more and more difficult to get in English the further east you go in Montreal. Unfortunately, there is some discrimination going on by the French speaking Quebecers towards the English speaking people. The current Quebec governments is contemplating bring in more discriminatory measures. It has the makings of 1970's crisis all over again. Language police are at it again. I had a run-in with them at a Walmart parking lot of all things! Fucking racists bastards - told them that in English...they didn't like it!
Healthcare sucks as well..I've been waiting now for over three years to be assigned a family doctor...will probably either die of old age or move before I get one.
On the plus side, Quebec architects, and builders are far more creative when it comes to housing than their counterparts in Ontario or anywhere else in Canada. Authorities are also very loose when it comes to issuing building permits in flood plains, so be careful if you're buying a place or renting an apartment - make sure you don't get flooded! Taxes are a little higher than other places in Canada, but they have better wine selection in their stores than in Ontario.
those fuckin nids de poule.
Wow, damn interesting to see some very spirited discussion on this topic. For all its problems, why do those of you that stay in Québec still choose to do so? What makes it worth the trouble?
I assume it’s the wine and cheese selection. Not really sure I see any other reason. They do have great ski hills, something Ontario lacks desperately... but in the end, you still have to bear the shame when admitting you live in Quebec.
Hahahaha got it. Du vin, du fromage et les montagnes. Merci beaucoup.
Hi, I would suggest you to send an email to each program asking them if you are qualified to apply to their master program. I was also an international student interested in m.arch programs in Canada but some of them don't allow b.arch students to apply to their m.arch because there's already a CACB Certificate program for international architects.
Yes, I've looked into that as well.
don't qualify for BEFA since I haven't been out of school that long. However, I could get my Indian B.Arch. evaluated by CACB
[Sorry, that "enter to post" feature made me send the last comment]
Hi, thanks everyone for responding. I've looked into that as well.
I don't qualify for BEFA since I haven't been out of school that long.
However, I could get my Indian B.Arch. evaluated by CACB and if that works out, I would be equivalent to a freshly graduated Canadian M.Arch (Professional). Doing an M.Arch. in Canada would just duplicate a degree I already have (not to mention be suuper expensive) and be redundant unless I specialised in Landscape or Urban Design (post-professional) which I'm not particularly interested in.
The challenge then would be to break into the Architectural Intern job market to rack up my internship hours for licensing — seeing as how a Canadian schooled graduate familiar with the work culture, design typologies, bye-laws, etc would naturally be preferred by firms over me.
Would it be a good idea to train under a BIM or Construction management course to improve my chances of getting into a firm? And would I be able to work as an intern at a firm or be restricted to only architectural technologist/Construction management, so called 'lower ranked' jobs for lack of a better term?
Meaning, would a BIM/Construction management qualification be looked at as:
A. Wow this architectural intern has more specialised skills than a regular graduate
or
B. Let's hire this kid for less money and make him do work that no one else wants to?
Would that position allow me to rack up the hours in pursuit of a license?
which position? why not both? That's what gets junior staff hired. It's not like you have experience in this country that you can leverage. Besides this, do not automatically assume that your degree will be considered equivalent. A accredited M.arch here deals with a lot of specific professional practice stuff as well as construction practice suitable for Canada. You will need to make a very strong case to the CACB so don't get your hopes up too quickly (it also costs a fair bit too).
Several observations/comments;
1. The first question you will be asked by a Canadian employer will be, "How much Canadian experience do you have?"
2. The second question will be, "Do you know Revit/AutoCAD?"
3. The third question will be, "Are you willing to work weekends and evenings?"
4. The fourth question will be, "How much are you expecting to get paid?"
Those questions are a hint of what they expect out of you, and what kind of a position they offer you.
Your degree will matter little to them.
In terms of building technology, unless you already have Canadian experience, you will not be given responsibility to work on a project by yourself - you will be put on a team where, at least the Job Captain, will teach you/hold your hand. Learning Canadian building techniques/technology can take as many as five years, depending on the size of the company you work for, the projects you are put on, and the number of different projects the firm gets. You should familiarise yourself with wood frame construction, masonry veneer on structural steel studs, masonry veneer on masonry back-up, precast construction, steel siding construction, EIFS, and probably some more I cannot think of now. To help you with that, buy guides/manuals that are available from CMHC, CSSBI, and CMHC.
To get involved in Construction Management, you will have to get a few years of experience. The firm will not send you to the site unless they feel certain that you know Contracts, Construction Laws as well as building or construction technology.
Also, very importantly, if you are from outside of Canada (maybe India?), expect some form of discrimination. It may appear subtle or in-your-face, but you will come across it. This is why I recommend you look for a job where the firm is young with younger staff and management. More established, and older firms tend to be worse when it comes to that - you will be the last-in-first-out in them when work slows down, and it does slow down every 5-7 years in Canada, particularly in Toronto, Ontario. It's very much of a cyclical business here with many firms depending on either the Federal or Provincial spending/projects for jobs. Private sector has nearly vanished from Canadian construction/development, except for condominiums. Those are already handled by a few firms and it's very difficult for new ones to get such jobs.
All the experience you gain will be valuable one-way-or-another when it comes to registration. For specifics and guidance, contact OAA if you end up in Ontario for details or other governing bodies if you work in other provinces.
Good luck.
I'd answer those as none yet (unless part time jobs while studying count?), yes, yes and enough not to starve and still buy guitar strings.
Thanks for those resources, I'll study the crap out of them (and probably myself as well).
Yes, I've heard of the soft discrimination as well. I'm prepared to deal with it. I'm looking to work with smaller, more creative studios in either Ontario, Vancouver or Montreal. Will BIM/Revit knowledge and experience be relevant for those, though?
You've listed some very pertinent and helpful points. Thanks a ton!
Revit and AutoCAD are absolutely essential. You will never find a job in an architects office unless you know both.
By the way, ton is spellt "tonne" in Canada, so might as well learn some of the spelling too - we're more British English than American English.
Hahaha so are we here in India, being a former Brit colony. I was actually contemplating doing exactly that, just not habituated to doing so since we use the metric system and don't come across it much. Believe me I prefer 'colour' over the
other - frankly barbaric - spelling any day.
revision to my earlier post, re:guides/manuals..."...NRC, CMHC and CSBI..."
I was wondering about that duplication. Thanks again :)
The best graduates I ever hired came out of Waterloo, but I have to say I have two young architects who came out of UBC right now and both are as much I could hope for, skilled, good experience, decent design skills and well tuned to the region we live and work. I agree that if you are planning to stick it out in Canada in the future consideration of getting educated the region you want to live is a good plan..... and by the way it's very busy out west right now!
Noted, thanks :)
"out west", as in BC? I thought Alberta died since the price of oil went down.
maybe this article will help you https: //www.topuniversities.co ...
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.