Archinect
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What's my title?

132
sidewinder

I'm making a business card for job searching...I have a M.Arch. So, am I an "Architectural Designer?" I don't know why this is so confusing...

 
Feb 4, 19 10:26 am
randomised

I'd wait with the business cards until you actually have a job...much easier to put the right thing on, just look at your contract :)

Feb 4, 19 10:43 am
curtkram

you get a contract when you start a new job?

randomised

Apparently.

randomised

You even get to sign on the line which is dotted...

Non Sequitur

Let your employer decide what your "title" is.


Feb 4, 19 10:52 am
Formerlyunknown

There are some reasons to have a business card even if you don't have a job - for example getting access to trade-only showrooms.  It probably won't be as useful for job searching though, as prospective employers don't expect you to offer a card. 

In many states unlicensed people can't use any title with "architectural" or any other variation of the word "architect" in it - so you don't want to be handing out cards that say that, as it's one of the most common ways that people get on licensing boards' radars and get fined. 

"Designer" alone is acceptable and won't get you into trouble.  Spelling out your degree ("Master of Architecture") after your name is also ok.

Feb 4, 19 11:18 am
tduds

My non-company business cards say "Person"

Feb 4, 19 12:40 pm
citizen

Everyone is right here.  You don't have a title yet; you'll get one when you land a job.  Until then, it can be useful to have your own card, yes.  For that: just your name, degree, and contact info is fine at this stage.  Simple and non-presumptuous.

i.e., Side Winder, M.Arch.

Feb 4, 19 1:37 pm
( o Y o )

Intern.

Feb 4, 19 1:46 pm
randomised

*unemployed intern

Wood Guy

"Sidewinder: Purveyor of Taste"

(Borrowed from elsewhere)

Feb 4, 19 4:03 pm
senjohnblutarsky

My favorite linkedin job title: "Actively seeking new opportunities".

Nice way to say unemployed. 

Feb 4, 19 4:31 pm
citizen

Citizen J. Architect, Casting Pearls Before Swine

Feb 4, 19 5:31 pm
Dr. Architecture

Many current students or recent graduates use business cards as a means of connecting during a job search.

I would suggest either --

  • Architectural Student
  • Architectural Graduate, '18


Feb 4, 19 7:34 pm
Koww

I recommend:

sidewinder, M.Arch
I'm your Huckleberry

Feb 4, 19 7:48 pm
sameolddoctor

"Drafting Bitch, M.Arch."

Feb 4, 19 8:14 pm
RickB-Astoria

Question: Why are you giving out business cards when you are neither a business partner or an important employee of leadership role with some authority over hiring & firing and other business affairs (like a regional office management of a larger corporate firm but not necessarily holding ownership stake of the firm) or business owner? 

These are the kinds of people who suppose to be giving out business cards. If you are none of these, why are you giving out them? Because your boss who's probably a firm's principal is? That's because he's a firm principal. You're not. It's goes like with the same territory of don't outdress the boss.

If you are unemployed and don't have a business then you don't give out business cards with any title or business cards in general. It's just silly. If a job applicant did that and nothing indicates he or she is or has been running his or her own business or other such roles in recent past, it would seem rather odd and even off putting. You should have whatever information I need to contact you in the resume. I'd probably chuck the business card in the circular file and probably your resume for that.

Feb 4, 19 10:28 pm
randomised

So, my guess is you don't have a business card.

RickB-Astoria

I have my own business. Whether or not I hire employees is another matter but I have my own business and the business licenses. 

Sidewinder does not appear to be running a business of his or her own. He or she appears to be just an unemployed person looking for a job. There is no sense in creating business cards or giving them out when you are not owning a business or in a leadership level role in a business where the person can A) represent the business, B) contract on behalf of the business for work, C) hire and fire authority in the business, D) etc. 

Sidewinder should not use business cards he or she had from when he or she was an employee because he or she is no longer in such a position. He or she is not in a business or his or her own, either, from what I can ascertain. This means there is no need or sense in giving out business cards at this point in time.

He or she should focus on the resume and portfolio stuff not making business cards. Especially if his or her job is a low-level staff person that none of the clientele cares about. 

randomised

So, you don't have a business card ;-)

Steeplechase

There are certain social situations where it would be inappropriate for a prospective employee to be handing out resumes and portfolios. It is also not just top level employees who get business cards. Everywhere I have worked all full time staff get business cards.

Non Sequitur

I had business cards even as an intern. They are like 30$ per 1000 so it’s not like it’s a big expense for an employer. Sure, the typical cad monkey may never get the opp to hand many out, but I was always in direct contact with clients, vendors, and contractors. So cards were a must.

randomised

I once worked somewhere where they gave a junior his own business cards the same week they told him his contract would not be prolonged...

Non Sequitur

great story rando.

poop876

You are an idiot Rick! We give business cards to every employee, regardless of their "title". They represent our company and they all have meetings with clients, friends, family who are all potential clients. It's small investment that makes all employees feel part of the company that can lead to potential clients.

Witty Banter

You're way off base Rick.

tintt

My kindergartner has business cards. And I always dress nicer than the boss.

randomised

Yes, but 876 you need to have been an actual employee to understand how business cards work in the real world...

RickB-Astoria

NS: "I had business cards even as an intern. They are like 30$ per 1000 so it’s not like it’s a big expense for an employer. Sure, the typical cad monkey may never get the opp to hand many out, but I was always in direct contact with clients, vendors, and contractors. So cards were a must. " 

Sure. If you are no longer an employee, that card would be invalid. 

RickB-Astoria

Steeplecase: "There are certain social situations where it would be inappropriate for a prospective employee to be handing out resumes and portfolios. It is also not just top level employees who get business cards. Everywhere I have worked all full time staff get business cards." It would be the wrong time to be discussing job employment opportunity, would it not? You could send the resume and portfolio digitally. It is possible that you can provide a profile pic or whatever in that digital format. If you are unemployed, you're not an employee of anyone therefore would no longer be authorized to represent yourself as an employee of that business. If you do not run or own a business, then you have no business to be giving out business cards. They are an advertising tool. Now, you can send a profile in what's basically a "vCard" or virtual contact file. You could conceivably send that as part of the email with all the information needed which can even have a profile pic of you so there is a face to the profile and include that with digital resume/portfolio on the attachment. The physical copy would never be exchanged during such a social setting.

Steeplechase

Rick, you are once again lecturing people about the practices they actually use to conduct business. In my area and field we have regular social events and we all exchange contact information with business cards. That is how it is done, no matter how much you write stating otherwise. We encourage students to attend these events, to bring their business cards so that they too can participate and make contacts. Pulling out one’s phone in such a setting is considered rude and will not make a good impression when there is an established social normal.

RickB-Astoria

You don't pull out the phone while you are talking to the person. You do that at an appropriate moment in time. If job seekers handed me business cards, what on earth would I do with them other than send them to the circular file? They can send the resume/portfolio for the job because only those channels would be used for evaluating an employee for any job position. Whatever is on the business card would be on the resume itself.

5839

There are lots of situations where handing someone a card is appropriate but handing them a resume or portfolio wouldn't be. I got my first job in NYC through someone with whom I'd struck up a conversation at a gallery opening. We talked for a bit, mostly about him, it turned out he worked at a well-known firm, I gave him my card, and he passed it on to the higher-ups, along with a few positive words about me. In that situation, even if you had the foresight to see it as a job-hunting opportunity, carrying around resumes and handing them out to strangers would be incredibly awkward and pushy, and would just make you look insensitive to how things are done. Exchanging cards is a common courtesy and doesn't demand anything - the receiver is free to toss the card the moment you're out of sight, and you know when you pay $30 for 1000 of them that 900+ might end up in the trash - but the few that make you long-term connections are worth the $30.

RickB-Astoria

You don't hand resumes/portfolios at that point in time. You would mail your resume/portfolio with cover letter. These days with emails, you can do that within 24 hours if you already have the resume and portfolio made and just need to type up the cover letter. As my own business, I can simply give out business cards all day long as long as I have cards printed up to give out. I didn't even wait until graduating from college to get a business license.

5839

You're not understanding how this works. You don't understand normal etiquette and human interactions, so why are you trying so hard to instruct others in those things? The firm contacted me (not vice versa) about applying for a job, specifically because I made contact with this member of the firm and gave him my contact info. If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity. This is a firm that gets literally hundreds, if not thousands of applications - without a personal connection you've got next to no chance of making it out of the pile. Any student or grad can hand out cards all day long too - there is simply NO requirement to have a business license in order to do that. None. At all. Obtaining a business license before graduating is a wise expenditure ONLY if you're actually going to be conducting actual business, and only if you're somewhere where it's a requirement. Otherwise it's just wasteful. Everybody has a right to hand out their name, contact info, degree, job aspirations, etc. on a card - there's simply no requirement for a license of any sort.

SpontaneousCombustion

Ugh. this reminds me of a time when Rick was lecturing on banks and checking accounts. We kept telling him that we've been doing all our banking for years by scanning checks with our phones, and he kept saying we weren't. First he said it's impossible, then he said we must only be using shady non-US banks, then even when we pointed him to articles about online banking, and lists of major US banks that had been offering that for years, he still insisted it was illegal and couldn't be happening. He'll argue in the face of all evidence, despite having no relevant experience and no facts to back him up. We could go on with this thread forever, but at some point all rational people give up and he's the only one left. Until the next thread he turns insane.

threeohdoor

Sidewinder - "Aspiring Entry-Level Employee".

Rick, you're a bit intense there with the business card analysis. Sometimes it's ok to breathe and take a step back. Have some crab and relax a bit.

Feb 5, 19 10:51 am
Volunteer

Of course you need business cards. Have your name, degree, college or university, date graduated and contact info. You might even meet someone while unemployed that could lead to a job for a firm you are trying to get on with.  

Feb 5, 19 11:45 am
proto

the point of the business card is to identify yourself and provide contact info

do that

Feb 5, 19 11:58 am
RickB-Astoria

Yes but it's about providing contact information of the BUSINESS or persons of a business. Hence why the word "business" is used in "business card". You could just as well send an email with your photo and contact information.

Volunteer

If someone asks for your card what are you going to do, ask for their business card with their email address on it so you can send them your virtual card? That's new definition of 'inane'.

poop876

Again, you are wrong! It's card with contact information for an individual and it does not have to be associated with a "business". You are spending too much time analyzing this shit!

RickB-Astoria

Volunteer, for me, it's simple. I give them a business card because I have a business and own one. However, I wouldn't be asking a business card from an unemployed job seeker. I rather they just send it to email. I'll give them a business card. 

From a business owner/employer point of view: I wouldn't be contacting a job seeker just because they give me a business card. If they send a vCard or any profile with possibly a picture in the email WITH the resume, I'll look at it then in the office. Why on earth would I contact them about anything regarding a job position they are seeking during a social event?

If they have a photo, I may put a face to name and recognize the person at the social event.

Volunteer

So, what if you are unemployed and looking for work and someone at a social function asks for your business card what do you do since you do not have a business card?

RickB-Astoria

Why would you the employer want a business card from me? You would give me your business card and expect me to send a resume/portfolio to your email or appropriate person in your firm's email at an appropriate time. You would just expect a good attitude and a good handshake. You wouldn't be making hiring decisions at a social event. Why would you?

poop876

Nobody wants a business or any other card from you!

Steeplechase

Many people write down notes on the back of business cards to help them remember people. People who may not be hiring or are in a different field sometimes refer people to others. People sometimes just socialize because they enjoy each other’s company. Social events provide an opportunity to get to know someone beyond a piece of paper.

RickB-Astoria

What kind of notes? Music notes? I agree with your other points you indicated in the above. I don't think that was ever the argument regarding the social events being an opportunity to get to know someone beyond a piece of paper. If I am going to write notes, I would probably find it more convenient for them to provide a 3x5 index card or a post card. Maybe it won't fit the wallet but fit the inside coat pocket in the business jacket.

Steeplechase

Notes about the person. The whole point of using the business card is that the notes are then automatically associated with contact information. It’s a very common networking suggestion.

RickB-Astoria

You don't have a pocket notebook or a brain to remember shit?

Steeplechase

Why remember and write down something I can get for free?

proto

_


RickB-Astoria

Steeplechase, I'll just make sure its encrypted in Vernam Cipher and forget to hand you the cipher to decipher to encryption.

Threesleeve

I'd find it rather off-putting to have someone taking notes about me in a little notebook while I'm interacting with them! I'd rather just hand them my card. Besides, I have a business card app on my phone that i use to scan others' cards later - so I'd prefer to get cards from them too, because they're easily scannable into my contacts.

And if somebody handed me an index card with their contact info, in a social or business situation I'd think they didn't understand normal interactions.  Balkins are you seriously advising students to not make business cards, but carry around handwritten 3x5 cards? 

Steeplechase

If they use 3x5 cards nobody would be confused and think they own the business and have all of the paperwork to run that business.

Threesleeve

Yeah, I know what Rick is saying,  but he's off on a ridiculous tangent with this, as usual.  Even if the OP is in a place where you're required to register a sole proprietorship, having a card with his name, degree, and something like "Designer" on it is not the same thing as operating a business. It's explaining his qualifications, and establishing his role in the profession. It's normal to have business cards, as new professional grad.  Rick wouldn't know that, as he's not a professional grad and has no real professional interactions.

In any case it's a total non-issue in many states in the first place, where if you use your own name as your business name and the business is not incorporated then you are not required to register anything or file any paperwork (other than your taxes) - even if you are in fact operating a business.

RickB-Astoria

As a sole proprietorship, you may or may not have to register with the state the business name or anything, there is usually some local city or county business license to engage as a home occupancy based business. Whatever it is, you take care of whatever paperwork and filing and pay whatever the fees are required.

Threesleeve

I'm sure that if he chooses to open a business he will look into any applicable fees. I have been operating a sole proprietorship for more than 20 years and there are absolutely 100% zero fees for that in my location - no state, county, or municipal requirements. The one thing I do pay for is a $12 permit every two years, which allows me to have a small sign - but that is optional and not a requirement for operating the business.

None of which has anything to do with whether he can and should have business cards.  Cards are a normal, expected accessory of any professional - whether unemployed, self-employed, employed by others, retired, or any other current state besides dead.

RickB-Astoria

Well, if you're dead..... you have a tombstone or a jar.

RickB-Astoria

For what it's worth: Here's an example, you might use or a variant of: https://www.vistaprint.com/des... but you might include a photo especially if you use both sides. A link to an online resume/profile maybe used. In this case, I would recommend an actual e-resume/portfolio page that you custom make than say LinkedIn or other because you can have a more tailored site setup with the resume info and portfolio.

NO COMPANY NAME OR POSITION TITLE IS USED. 

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT REPRESENT YOURSELF AS AN EMPLOYEE OF A BUSINESS OR A BUSINESS OWNER UNLESS YOU ARE CURRENTLY ONE.

Feb 5, 19 12:48 pm
Non Sequitur

could you repeat that using more capital letters please?

Witty Banter

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a new graduate should represent themselves as a business owner or employee of a business. You're getting too caught up in nomenclature.

RickB-Astoria

It is somewhat representing oneself as one by use of business cards. What in the world would a business owner/employer going to do with those cards that is just wasting space in their wallet or pocket? Isn't the resume and portfolio provided in an email be what an employer base decisions about hiring. The only business cards that would matter to me would be from engineers, city officials, and other important officials, and maybe product vendors.

If a job seeker is inquiring about a job position, I would direct them to send me their resume and maybe portfolio via email and mail a physical copy of their resume (and maybe portfolio if appropriate). I'll give them a business card. I don't need anything handed to me by them. Maybe a good attitude and a handshake.  

They don't need to send anything to me right then and there because I wouldn't be making such a decision about hiring at a social event.   

Volunteer

^not really. You may have worked with the architect before on several jobs before his firm went tits up. In that case you could care less about his resume and portfolio. You just need to know his home telephone number, for your use of to refer him to someone else. Don't be so obtuse.

Witty Banter

It is not representing oneself as a business owner/employee. You may perceive it that way but in the real world it is well known that individuals use "business" cards for personal use. There are many possible situations beyond your very limited experiences including those in which an employer reaches out to a potential new hire. The position I currently hold was the result of meeting an employee of my firm in a social situation and they later reached out to me regarding an opening. Not all hiring is passive and not all situations are limited to your past experiences or the way you envision running your "business."

RickB-Astoria

Okay. But then, they will likely be already a sole-proprietor business in essence. I wouldn't likely go through the trouble of checking if they have all their paperwork in order to conduct business but if you ARE an architect then you probably already have that license and you can have a very basic business card and not using an Assumed Business Name but just your name and your title by your license. For all I know, you're licensed and already have your business licenses to independently practice and you have the licensed title. A CPBD would be in a similar scenario as would a professional engineer. 

In any case, you could be your own business. IF you are not licensed/registered or certified by a professional association with a conferred title, not employed and not running a business then that is its own issue. However, you could perhaps just represent yourself as an independent design consultant or whatever like some web design consultant without using any special business name. Just their name, web design consultant just underneath it, and below that their contact info. In that situation, I may give a referral but for all that matters in this given context is just the name and contact info nothing else. 

You probably could just as easily have a side gig going before being laid off. Who knows. I wouldn't necessarily care so much in that situation. Most sole-proprietorship consulting businesses don't necessarily have any kind of state licensing unless they are using an ABN (aka a dba name). In that situation, you would be running your own little gig until you have a job again for steady pay.

Just having a business does not mean you actively have clients/customers. It just means you are doing business. In which case, you probably can just as easily "set up shop" and have a business card. Just don't misrepresent yourself as being employed by someone else or owning/running a business if neither is true.


RickB-Astoria

Witty Banter: "It is not representing oneself as a business owner/employee. You may perceive it that way but in the real world it is well known that individuals use "business" cards for personal use. There are many possible situations beyond your very limited experiences including those in which an employer reaches out to a potential new hire. The position I currently hold was the result of meeting an employee of my firm in a social situation and they later reached out to me regarding an opening. Not all hiring is passive and not all situations are limited to your past experiences or the way you envision running your "business."" 

You can be an owner of a business with nothing more than a simple city filing for a home occupancy business license and being an independent consultant using nothing but your real and true name and maybe "design consultant" being a title or whatever. I don't making hiring decision at the time of a social event. 

I may get some sense of about who you are at an event and it may help put a face to name with some degree of social association. The resume and portfolio will still be the major factor in offering an interview for a position. Good impressions at a social event will help but that alone won't get you hired. There is still the interview and culmination of communication.

Steeplechase

How many interviews have you actually attended in any capacity? You don’t seem to grasp that you are telling people that their experiences are
somehow not true.

Witty Banter

Exactly what Steeplechase said. You're saying that any and all experiences differing for yours (which appear to largely be hypothetical situations) are invalid. There' s a big world out there, experiences and perspectives vary.

chi-arc

I lost brain cells reading Rick's responses.

"You're saying that any and all experiences differing for yours (which appear to largely be hypothetical situations) are invalid. There' s a big world out there, experiences and perspectives vary"

THIS.


RickB-Astoria

Don't you guys and gals have a pocket notebook or something ?

randomised

You mean a Moleskine?

Non Sequitur

I have several moleskine on my desk... 3 to be exact. (plus a fresh unopened Leuchtturm dot sketchbook). I also have 2 more moleskins at my home office desk.

Steeplechase

Moleskins seems to be the default gift for architects. I have a stack of them but I’m trying to go paperless.

kjdt

Rick you're getting yourself into trouble again by pontificating on things with which you have no experience. 

It's pretty normal for architecture students and new grads to make cards.  Getting cards made was even a requirement of the pro prac course I had to take in my final year of architecture school.  One reason is what FormerlyUnknown mentioned above:  a business card is usually the ticket in the door of trade showrooms, some professional conferences (particularly ones where design professionals are comped but product reps aren't), and for trade discounts, etc.  It's also still pretty normal to have cards tucked in the front of your portfolio, that you can hand out to anybody you meet at an interview (yes, it's still typical to bring a physical book portfolio to an interview.) 

Another reason is just that if somebody hands you a card it's always good to have one to hand back, just because that's still polite convention. Sure, if you don't have cards it's fine to say "sorry, I don't have a card on me right now" - but it's better if you just have one to trade! You know, for somebody who is so obsessed with history, I would think you'd know that and be enthusiastic about it.  It used to be common for people to get their first cards made as young teenagers - even if they had nothing to put on it except their name - because polite convention was to exchange cards even in social situations.  That's not so normal anymore, but it's still normal to exchange cards when you interact with people in a professional setting.  Even unemployed students and recent grads commonly attend professional conferences, product lunches, and other events where they'll meet others in the profession, product reps, etc.  All you have to do is put your name on your card, and any title that won't get you in trouble with licensing laws (designer, M.Arch, whatever). 

I don't know where you're getting the idea that only high-level employees and owners of firms have cards. In most firms everybody has cards - they're routinely ordered for new employees when they start - it doesn't matter if they're a senior project manager, or a fresh grad in their first job, or some back-room assistant IT person.  The firm wants you to be able to professionally exchange cards with anybody you encounter.

Feb 5, 19 6:49 pm
Threesleeve

Agree. Lots of times when i was job searching, by the time I got to a 2nd interview the firm would have me spend time talking to someone in the firm at the same level or in the same role - like another intern or young designer. That wouldn't be somebody who was receiving my resume, but would be somebody I'd want to send a thank-you email to later, so I would ask for their card - and then it was good to have a card to exchange with them. It's just typical office behavior.

RickB-Astoria

why is a business card is called a business card? 

My main point is if you are not an owner of a business or actively employed in a business, you have no business giving out business cards nor have any business going to a trade show room or other activities intended for those actively in the business or trade. If you are unemployed and not actively owning a business, you pretty much are a nobody. Don't be pretentious. 

Either get up a business even at the minimum of having a business license and print out your business cards for that business or be employed. Any business cards you have while employed is no longer valid for you to give out or use because you no longer are a legitimate and valid employee of that business. 

My main point or issue is not about if you are an important employee to be given a business card by the business. It's not that big of a hurdle to set up a business and pay the fee with the appropriate city/county and/or state agency that's effectively valid for the business license/registration duration and have some business cards made. Therefore, even if you get laid off, you still have that business and those business cards to use. So you go back to business in between jobs.


RickB-Astoria

It maybe polite convention but you should be legit not a nobody. Hell, I don't even go to these trade showrooms or professional conferences unless I was busy enough that year or in the last 6 to 12 months and can afford to take the time away from work to go to them. I wouldn't go to one if I wasn't making any money or doing any business. I wouldn't be there unless it makes sense. 

In the building design business, work is often too sporadic and unpredictable. In the software/video game business, it's a different thing but then it that is the kind of business that could be VC funded or nowadays, crowdfunded but not residential building design studios. VCs may fund developers but not people who is only a part of the design. The difference is the software business model is akin to being developer+architect/engineer+builder all in one business. 

Threesleeve

You've got your reasons for not going to conferences and events. Somebody who is young and unemployed may have time to go to those things, and may be interested in the subject matter and/or in the networking opportunities. You're once again arguing against an entire well-established convention because it doesn't happen to suit your own personal purposes at this moment.

They're called "business cards" because they're used in a business setting.  It is 100% normal for new grads to have business cards, and for every person in a typical firm to have them too.  Your concerns about people misrepresenting themselves as business owners is unfounded - there's no expectation (by normal, experienced people) that a card that says "Joe Schmoe, M.Arch, Designer" means that "Joe Schmoe" is operating a business.

5839

Rick most architecture schools encourage students to make cards as soon as possible and use them - not wait until hiring.  You could probably become more comfortable with this idea if you just think of them as "calling" cards, like turn-of-the-last-century debutantes exchanged, rather than "business" cards. Just mementos of one's visit or conversation with someone.

You have little to no actual business Rick, so you find your validation as a "businessman" in the process of filing paperwork and paying fees to record the existence of a "business". You reflexively object to anything that forwards anyone's career without involving that sort of bureaucracy, because it obviously undermines your legitimacy, which is built on nothing but paperwork. But you don't have much use for in-person socializing, so I think you shouldn't feel as threatened if you'd just view the exchange of cards as a social convention, not one with an inherent job-seeking or advertising goal.

RickB-Astoria

At least I legally can engage in business. If you don't have a business license to engage in business, you are violating laws. Even at a Ramen noodle budget, you can afford a business license for even the most simple and basic business type.

5839

It's a non-issue. The OP never said anything about a business name. He wants to put on his card his name, degree, and the role he's seeking. There is no business. And even if there were, how do you know where he is and if a business license is required or even offered there? My state has no business licenses. You can file a trade name (totally at your option - there's no requirement to do so), and you can file incorporation documents.  But there is no application or registry for unincorporated businesses. In some cities and towns you'd have to apply for a permit if a business is in your home. In others you'd only have to apply if it were creating traffic. In still others you don't need any permits at all. So how can you give one-size-fits-all advice to someone who hasn't even indicated that they want to start a business, and when you don't even know if they're located somewhere that even cares if they do?  All he wants to do is make a card, to hand out to people with whom he interacts, as is customary in our society and recommended by people who actually work in this field - which you do not, regardless of how much paperwork you file.

RickB-Astoria

Threesleeve, then as a college graduate, when you pay for buy some business cards, go buy a business license as well. It's part of paying your dues.

Threesleeve

You're clearly not even reading or understanding anything that anybody's writing. You're a lost cause. Good bye.

RickB-Astoria

Ever since at least the 1960s, consumer protection laws, and public expectation of accountability and fraud protection and the countless lawsuits, they require some record connecting a person who would be responsible for the business with that of the business regardless of name used fictitious or not. 

It's 2019, it's required to conduct business anywhere to have some kind of license/permit filing at some level of local to state-level (or equivalent) government to run a business of any kind regardless of customer/clientele traffic or use of any fictitious name or not for the business.

5839

This is patently false. There are many areas of the US in which there are no licenses or permits required for unincorporated businesses. There are several states where it's not even possible to register such a business if you try. Many smaller towns have no license or permit requirements at all for home-based businesses that do not create traffic, noise, or have business-related exterior signage or lighting. They just have no reason to regulate those small businesses - and the fees generated from doing so wouldn't offset the extra personnel hours required to process the permits. Look Rick, it would be one thing if you were even humble enough to say "this is how it works in Astoria" - but you don't do that - you make proclamations, in big capital letters, telling people that they MUST do things that, in some cases, they couldn't even do if they tried.

RickB-Astoria

How are they doing their required by law duty to protect the public from criminal businesses engaged in crime. If you don't mind indicating your town or county and state unless you are the ONLY architect in the area. If there is like 100+ licensed architects in your area, I probably won't know which one is you. 

You can't really legally hold a business owner accountable as a local government for unlawful activity unless you have a record that they own the business (basically attesting to ownership) because all a person has to do is deny they are an owner of the business and escape legal ramification because there is no record of ownership. They can say the business belongs to someone else. 

How it sounds by you, it would be a organized crime's heaven or heaven for drug dealing business owner (provide they don't physically carry the drugs on them or do the dealing directly).

RickB-Astoria

5839, they were called "visiting cards" (or calling cards but there maybe other association to the latter term but visiting cards would be more appropriate term for the card you give when you are neither an employee or a business. They would be similar but have a little difference in the information on the card. Since they are both 2" x 3.5", customarily but you could make the visiting card a slightly different size. Alternatively, we can call them social cards. The difference being, business card has a business name on it and maybe title or something more "business"-y where as a social card or visiting card would have basically, name and some contact information but not necessarily a home mailing address but a cell phone and maybe a social media URL. They are similar but different in representation. A business card represents you are associated with a business and that's why the word "business" is used. In a way, business cards was an adaption of the "visiting cards" for business purposes. We probably should use the right terminology. 

A modern way of calling a "visiting card" is a "social card" (not Social Security Card). The difference between them and business cards will be on the content on the card. This day and age, you'll probably have name, phone or cell phone number and email address and maybe other pertinent information. Business cards is a little more nuance to the application. It's both about giving contact information AND passive advertising. Business logo (trademark) and whatever is used and you are making a connection of your name to the business you are associated with. If you are not employed or owning a business, you give out an alternative "visiting card" or "social card". You probably use the same tools to make them or have them made. Vista print business cards services can make those "visiting cards" just as easily just that you have slightly different information content.

RickB-Astoria

You could call it a calling card but if you are not in business or employed, it should simply not indicate any sort of business name, business logos, or anything "business" nature. Then have some of those to give out.

Steeplechase

“‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’”

5839

See Rick, there you go with the assumptions again. I do not want to be specific about my current location, but I will paraphrase the regs for you: at the state level there is no registration required as long as you're using your own name in the name of your business there is no registration required. At the city level there are no permits required when you meet four rules: 1. no exterior lighting, or signage over 4 feet square. 2. the work of the business is conducted by at least one person who lives on-site. 3. there are not more than two employees who do not live on-site. 4. the business doesn't generate in excess of 10 vehicle trips per day.

RickB-Astoria

Fine. 

Where I am at, they are a little more regulated. I still (if I'm going to dot all my i's and cross all my t's) have to file for the business license with the city because the home occupancy is still a business location even when in a home. There are two categories of home occupancy. Type A and Type B. They differ mainly on the aspect of customer/client visitation and matters relating to if I employ anyone not related to or otherwise live at the location. Signage is another permit matter with its own associated fees. I'm not assuming every location has exactly the same rules as where I am at. There is usually some minimum base line. Most places will require some kind of licensing because if you don't have a business license, you essentially don't have a business nor it be legal to engage in business/commercial activities. 

In Oregon, I don't have to register with the state when I use my real and true legal name. Use of initials for middles names and occupational title following the last name would not trigger an ABN registration. (Other states may call it a dba - Doing Business As) 

It really strikes odd that your location would not require at least a minimal business license form to be filed with a minimal fee like $25 to $50 or so fee especially in this litigious world because there are statutory laws and customs where a person who is not an owner of a business is not responsible for the business. The registration is to register and as a legal attest made of who the owner or owners are and the legal paper trail like name of owner(s) and their location for serving certain papers. Without it, accountability can be greatly compromised. I think we would be on a different topic there. Your state appears to require registration when its using a fictitious name if I understand you correctly.

Steeplechase

Matching names isn’t hard. Business registration regulations have absolutely nothing to do with business cards.

RickB-Astoria

Matching names with what? Business registrations is typical requirement to legally establish a business for which a business card would be made for. Business cards are like marketing brochures. It's mark of the marketing of a business. They are to provide connection of face to name to business. You should be either an active employee of a business or a business owner to be giving out "business cards". If you are neither, you give out "visiting cards" or "calling cards" as they maybe called. You should not have any title used other than Mr. or Dr. (if you have a doctorates degree) or something like that, your first and last name. You may have phone number or email address or something on that front as a means of contact. NO BUSINESS NAME OR LOGO.

Steeplechase

I am just stressed enough to find this hilarious. Students in creative fields are encouraged to include things like a personal logo. Consistent individual branding is considered a positive.

RickB-Astoria

I meant a "business logo" like no using "business name" and "business logo". I wan't intending to include some creative personal logo or stylized form of your name with a clear print name of your name on the card. Relax there. These logos are essentially trademarks and borderlining on actually running a business. IF you need to legally register such business, legally best to do so BEFORE giving out cards. As for registering trademarks, that's another matter.

Bloopox

Business cards used to be one of the things you'd order from university printing at the same time that you got your personalized graduation invitations, thank you cards, and stationery.  I suppose in the age of email and VistaPrint that's probably a quaint or extinct practice?  Nonetheless new grads are still getting them printed somewhere and they're still fundamental etiquette in professional settings.  Your name and contact info is the bare minimum, M.Arch is good to note for somebody just entering the profession but you probably won't keep that on your cards later, and any title isn't critical but is ok unless your state's got an issue with it (don't use "Professional Designer" in New York, and don't use "Architectural" anything in most states, though some do specifically allow "Architectural Associate" for people actively enrolled in AXP.)  I've got Rick on permanent Ignore and highly recommend that - it makes threads much shorter and more useful.

Feb 5, 19 9:31 pm
proto

there used to be this thing called a visiting or calling card...I'm sure Balkins has a chapter on it

Bloopox

Yes, visiting cards of that sort still do exist, for very formal occasions, such as if one is invited to the Boston Cotillion.  Balkins probably wouldn't like those though, since a gentleman's card is supposed to include his title and profession (along with club affiliations and other nonsense.) But what I was referring to were just run-of-the-mill business cards from university printing, that I was offered, circa 1995, in the same brochure as graduation invites and such. I don't know if that's still a thing, but I do know I receive lots of cards from people 20 and 30 years younger than I, so somebody somewhere still prints them and people still routinely carry and use them.

RickB-Astoria

Even at that ramen noodle budget, students could at least afford the most basic cost of a business license.

Bloopox

"RickB-Astoria is ignored by you."

Volunteer

Many architecture firms also do graphic design which often includes stationary and (gasp!) - business cards. To maintain they are only for people actively involved in a business is too absurd to comment on. Many are innovative and clever in their composition and artwork. What is the cost of having a few cards on your person at all times, employed or not? Essentially nothing. What is the cost of not having a card when someone asks for one?


Feb 6, 19 8:41 am
Non Sequitur

The best business card I've seen was from an associate at SHoP. I visited their office and the card I was given had a hole where the low case "o" is. Simple, but damn was it sexy. That was 11 years ago and I don't think I've seen a nicer design.

tintt

Did you take the card on a date?

Non Sequitur

Does hitting up a few swanky bars in NYC later that evening with the card still in pocket count?

tintt

of course!

Non Sequitur

in that case, we had one helluva good date.

5839

A former classmate has a card with a printed square with a big circle cut-out in it, about the size of a nickel. He's had that card since we graduated in the mid-90s - it looks a little dated at this point - but his cards are good for spinning around a pencil and flinging at things in my office.

citizen

Is that a card in your pocket, or are you... nevermind.

SpontaneousCombustion

When I was in grad school one of the assignments in the Project Management sequence was to get cards.  All through the semester we had to base everything on an imaginary firm, and I'd named my firm after a feature on campus - kind of an inside joke - so my cards had that firm name.  After I graduated I continued to use those cards and that firm name for all my freelance work.  There's no rule in my state to register businesses or trade names so I didn't register it until almost 20 years later, and then only to prevent anyone else from someday using anything confusingly similar.  It costs $40 here to register a trade name for 5 years, so not a budget breaker - but I don't think the OP should worry too much about it one way or the other.  Everybody you meet in a professional setting is going to expect you to have cards - and nobody but Richard Balkins, Professional Busybody is going to check up on the filing status of your or your imaginary firm's name!

Feb 6, 19 11:15 am
RickB-Astoria

Sure, if you are in a state that doesn't do registration of sole-proprietorships at the state-level, you would still have the local city or county for the business license in order to conduct business in that city or county. Every city and county in California requires it even though the state didn't register a business registration or license except for LLC/LLP/Corporations/etc. types of business entities that provides limited liability.


SpontaneousCombustion

I don't have any local or city or county licenses. There are none required. I'm not in California, and have no reason to think sidewinder is either. Rick if you go back to your first post in this thread you'll see that mostly what you were insisting at that point was that business cards shouldn't be in the clutches of anyone but firm owners and senior-level key personnel. Having been educated on the utter falseness of that assertion, you shifted to this obsession with getting a license for a non-existent business. Why don't you call any city or state you choose, and ask whether there's anything in their laws preventing a job seeker from making business cards with their name and degree on them, if they do not hold a business license. Do that and report back on it, with documentation. Until then shut up. All you're doing is repeating the same nonsense.  It doesn't make it more true, it just makes you look more stupid.

RickB-Astoria

I believe this is the important quote you are referring to:

Question: Why are you giving out business cards when you are neither a business partner or an important employee of leadership role with some authority over hiring & firing and other business affairs (like a regional office management of a larger corporate firm but not necessarily holding ownership stake of the firm) or business owner? 

I think the particular reference I was implying in a larger firm. I have conceded with others that other employees maybe deemed representatives of the firm by virtue of employment and having a business card and giving them out maybe appropriate as long as they are employed.

Steeplechase

I am writing my representatives now! We need comprehensive card control, and it cannot be at the local level. We must demand federal action on this scourge that harms young as old, Democrat and Republican. Stores like Staples and Office Max allow anyone to just walk in and purchase business cards without identification. Shadowy websites like VistaPrint and Moo careless ship thousands of cards to people’s homes, where children live, without a thought or care. We must demand action now!

Feb 6, 19 4:12 pm
randomised

Ah, that sweet moment at the end of a meeting when business cards might be exchanged...Should I take mine out first? Does that make me seem to eager? What if they don't give me theirs? Quelle horreur!

Feb 7, 19 2:28 am
Formerlyunknown

Is the meeting at your place or mine? I was taught in middle school that in the US the visitor should offer their business card first, and preferably at the start of the meeting. (But if you share Rick's views that having cards when you're not an owner is an unseemly example of "outdressing the boss" then unless you know you're talking to a principal you should never offer a card, lest you create awkwardness if the other person ranks too lowly to be able to reciprocate!)

randomised

They never taught us anything business related, ever. I'm totally clueless at that and other fronts, but luckily the people I'm dealing with as well, ha!

jla-x

simple solution.   Include a 100-200 word explanation of title law and your situation on the card in .5 pt font.  



Feb 7, 19 10:07 am
tintt

Dont get too many. They get outdated quickly. 

Feb 7, 19 10:51 am
eeayeeayo

University printing services where I teach does business cards for recent grads and current students - $18 a box for 300. Students usually have cards as soon as they start interviewing for internships. some of their templates/past examples are ones where students give themselves a company name (like "DaveCo"). Personally I think that's cheezy and reminds me of Kramerica.  But if you insist on doing that you're not going to get in trouble over business licenses -- you're just gonna be cheezy. The most versatile thing to make the cards stay applicable longest, if you've already graduated, would be to put your degree and year of graduation. As long as you're looking for a job in architecture and your degree is in architecture that should be enough info, any other title would be optional.

Feb 7, 19 12:25 pm
Steeplechase

Wait, do you think Kramerica Industries wasn’t registered with the proper authorities of the City, County and State of New York?

eeayeeayo

Hmm... did it need to be registered in NYC? Or in LA, where it was filmed? Or both? Or neither, as long as neither Kramer nor Darren handed out cards?

3tk

11 entities with 'Kramerica' listed in State of New York. No Kramerica Industries listed.

RickB-Astoria

Did you enjoy that dumpster fire? A long overdue one.

Feb 7, 19 2:02 pm
kjdt

fyi there's a petition circulating to pledge to ignore you. Most on this thread have signed it. I was on the fence, but given your latest comment here I think I'm onboard too. If nobody can see you it's going to be hard to start any new fires around here.

Non Sequitur

Funny, I’ve seen no such petition.

3tk

Name, Designer

M. Arch year of graduation

My school in college gave us cards with expected year of graduation on them (engineering).  We had events throughout the year where alumni came back and they would give us advice on how to network (how to exchange business cards while having a drink or finger foods, writing down non-work facts on back of the cards you got with date/event to connect later with, etc.).  I ran out before I graduated but had a lot of contacts that I stayed in touch with from those years.  Some are now consultants I work with.  In some ways they are the old calling cards.

Feb 7, 19 5:12 pm
RickB-Astoria

*bump* Nope... not nuked. It had just slipped to page 2 or 3 or whatever because of newer discussions. 

Feb 11, 19 2:32 pm
tduds

Whyyyyyyy did you do that?

Non Sequitur

was requested in TC

RickB-Astoria

tduds, congrats at becoming a licensed architect. Best wishes.

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