I paid in state tuition.  Make decent money. 

If it takes someone three years to decide Architecture isn't for them, I'd say they were in denial for a while.  It becomes apparent, quickly, for most. 

I saw several people try to come back to school when I was there.  They were accepted in.  In some instances they repeated a year.  Several of them threw fits just like the one you just did.  One guy went so far as to claim he shouldn't even be in undergrad.  He said he should be in the graduate program (didn't have a bachelor's.  Not sure what he was thinking).  The rest of them did what they had to do to pursue what they wanted. 

Life is full of rules.  Some of them aren't our favorites.  

Suck it up, buttercup. 

I've seen plenty of students take several years off. Not sure why you're so salty.

Perhaps post-secondary education is not your thing.

Accreditation, the requirements of NAAB, and the different years/terms/manners in which different schools satisfy NAABs requirements has a lot to do with it.  

@senjohnbltarsky what is your definition of decent money? Obviously must not be great... sounds like you are barely making it. And if you read my post you would see that repeating a year and the cost to do so it one of the primary concerns - college isn't free buttercup. Any financially responsible adult would be concerned about taking on additional student loan debt - in a field with undeniably low ROI. And before you parade your decision to go to a state school over a private institution (no one cares), I'm happy that you had your entire life figured out in 3 years. ::Slow clapping for you:: Comment when you have something intelligent to contribute. Life is full of rules, some are outdated.

@Janosh - thank you for the feedback.

^ thinks architecture school and ROI can fit without conflict in the same sentence = hilarious.

Thanks for the personal email. Please note that I read your rant above and my comment above still stands.  Undergrad is not hard. Perhaps you simply incorrectly picked a discipline, or a university, which conflicts with your expected professional reality(ies).

Everyone's mileage will differ, and you'll appear nothing more than salty by expecting your experience to be an accurate representation.

Heck, by 3rd year... I was already arguing with the city and getting building permits done, in between my studio time. Kids these days... amiright?

I got an email too! How nice. 

So, where did I say I barely make it? I live in an area with a low cost of living.  I make more than enough to get by here, and support my many habits.  

Is the pay in Architecture equal to the liability we assume or in line with the services we provide? Probably not. But, I would say most people who make plans will do well in the industry. Part of my planning was cost of school. My loans were paid off 5 years out of school.   

I am not sure all the cards you think are stacked against you were put in play by others. 

Sounds to me like you're making excuses for yourself. I know plenty of people that transferred out of architecture and finished with other bachelor degrees (none of whom have been struck by lightning). Most after the second year, some after the third year, one or two in the middle of their final year. Did it result in more time at school? Maybe ... most of the time it depended on the program they transferred to and their individual degree requirements. Many of them worked hard taking more credits each semester to catch up or get ahead.

No one is stopping you from becoming an architect without a B.Arch either. There are plenty of jurisdictions that will award you a license without needing to complete a NAAB-accredited degree.

I'm not going to stick up for the hazing mentality (which most of the time seems to be self-inflicted by the student body rather than the professors) ... that stuff should stop. But like I said, it's usually self-inflicted rather than imposed by the administration, so no where to look but in the mirror for the solution.

People have stepped up to address the issue of the high ticket price and historically low ROI ... those people went to programs that were cheaper, got jobs that paid right out of school rather than working for free for some big-name starchitect, and sought opportunities to offset the cost of the program while in school (work-study, TA-ships, scholarships and grants, etc.) rather than taking on more debt. People will literally pay for you to go to school for just writing an essay. If you haven't written a dozen essays applying for scholarships, you haven't even begun trying.

Sorry, but I'm with senjohnblutarsky on this one ... suck it up, buttercup.

Not sure I understand... Do you have a specific problem or is this just a rant?

Please do architecture and yourself a favor and leave the profession. 

People like you are building all that shit out there.

Just out of curiosity, are any of you licensed?

This post was a rant. It opened with "frustration". Now accept that and read it within the context of frustration. Try not to be so dry and you might learn something.

I am literally laughing at all of you because there are so many assumptions being made here to defend a profession and academic system that is flawed and slow to accept change. NCARB, NAAB and the AIA accept this fact and have mostly taken steps to address this in the licensing process but the institutes are dragging their feet. You yourselves know it to be true.

@nonsequiter the email was meant to be a post , don't feel special. Thank you for the few gems of useful feedback you contributed here, but overall you missed the point. I'll just give you a pat on the back for assuming you are the only person that was working during your 3rd year and send you on your way.

@senjohnblutarsky - I read some of your comments on other post and it seems like you suffer from Stockholm syndrome. You like many architects have come to think that your love for Architecture has to come with the acceptance of abusive professional and academic experiences. "Buttercup" is growing on me btw, kinda of a cute nickname.

I will suck it up, when you all stop sipping the cool-aid.

-------

@everyday intern please be more specific, what are some majors they transferred to? You seem like a recent grad, and a bit naive so I won't really address everything you wrote.

^ I had 2 consecutive jobs while in 3rd year.... retail at night and on weekends, and architecture office between studios.

I was licensed 3 years post graduation.

i'm licensed and I resent that others had specific responses but not me. 

shellarchitect, I didn't get much of a specific response either. Apparently I'm so naive that it isn't worth their time to address everything I wrote. 

TheGreatEscape, some did different pathways in art degrees (sculpture, painting, graphic design, 3D visualization and graphics, etc.), others went into more engineering focuses (structural, mechanical, electrical, etc.), one guy ended up changing to English, one guy got tired of school with only a semester to go and started working and now has his contractor's license and his own construction business. 

Not sure why you think I'm a recent grad or naive ... perhaps you could elaborate and be more specific. How do you define "recent grad"? Within 1 year of graduating? 2 years? 3 years? What makes you think I'm naive? Is it because my name says "intern"? Would it surprise you that most of my coworkers come to me with their problems because they see me as experienced and knowledgeable? Would it surprise you that most of them think I'm licensed and are a little surprised when I correct them? 

Money

@shellarchitect Your question was "Do you have a specific problem or is this just a rant?" I replied directly to you in the first sentence.

@z1111 I'm sure you are a great Architect, building ALL the great things out there. This profession is nothing without you...lol

@OntheFence your posts are brilliant, thank you for commenting here - as it led me to your post history.

@everydayintern I appreciate your feedback, you didn't really ask any questions in your first post that prompted a deeper response. I assumed you were young or a recent grad (1-2 year out) because your first response seemed very surface and a bit in denial about the negative culture that exist in some SOA's; the hazing mentality of "weeding out" student comes from the top down. My classmates were mostly awesome and supportive of each other. 

Checkout out this post from @OnTheFence @http://archinect.com/forum/thread/96805/does-it-pay-off-or-not - a few great points were made in this discussion regarding cost and ROI.

I think you're missing my last point from my earlier post. If you're concern is the ROI of your architectural education there are things that you can do to make that ROI better. This is simple economics.

Not sure where you think you read that I was in denial about the hazing mentality or negative culture in school. It exists, but I was pointing out that in my experience, this hardly ever came top down. My professors told us to go home and not pull all-nighters. My fellow classmates tried to guilt us into working late so they felt like they were justified in their procrastination. If you did good work and got it done efficiently, the professors praised you for it ... fellow classmates usually resented you for it. On the other hand, if you consistently wasted your time and theirs, the professors called you out on it. Maybe your school just sucks.

P.s. I'm not a recent grad (1-2 years out).

all the more motivation to do your best in school and make the most of it, do it for your own benefit and move on.  don't get bogged down in the crap.  the education is what you make of it and actually comes from you rather than from the school.  i don't think the profession is that much different.  

It's ok EI.  Apparently I have Stockholm Syndrome.  So, being in denial is a mild malady. 

I was going to respond as I have a lot to say on the matter, but seeing as the OP seems to be a raging asshole I think I'll abstain....

senjohn, you're right. It could be much worse. You do have to love when people come to an anonymous forum full of random strangers only to play psychologist in order to disregard the random strangers' opinions so they can reaffirm their own. At least TheGreatEscape got a new nickname out of it. 

McQueen was great in the motorcycle chase scene BTW. IIRC, he played both his character and some of the soldiers chasing him because he was so good on the bike (but the acutal jump over the fence was done by a stuntman). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zwW7iWinrk

@woodguy the only raging a**hole in this thread is the one you are sitting on. Maybe abstain from posting when you have nothing to say.
 

Meh, I disagree with the entirety of your premise. I am licensed. There are many different programs, that cater to varied interests in architecture; from the practical - practice oriented - SU, to the "fantastical" CU.

Your first paragraph is a halting, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you talking about those that are licensed and can't go to grad school - which is bullshit, or are you talking about those that are licensed through the non-traditional path, and then try to go and get a degree? I don't follow. 

Architecture education is what you make of it. Plenty of people go to Princeton, doesn't mean they will all get published by PAP, or find themselves in Architectural Review.

transferring out is easy. transferring in extends your academic career for one obvious reason - Studios. Studios are the core to the curriculum and you can not skip 3 or 4 years of them. Kind of obvious and thats why you can say do a BFA and then a M.Arch, etc.... The ROI is a funny question. Over what time period? 5 years out of school or 50? Retirement is important to people who have jobs you cannot do your entire life or you do not like. There are a lot of architects who work well in their 70's and make lots of money, etc...and for the record I loved all-nighters and I work weekends and nights still, thats me and its not a problem for me, I like doing it. I like being an architect, its not a job so I find the ROI question kind of silly. Its almost like your financial advisor is your spirtiual advisor these days. Should I do what I want or should I make life decisions based on saving money here and there?

@b3tadine[sutures] (1) "many different programs" - any that you can name specifically? (2) those that are licensed through the non-traditional path, and then try to go and get a degree" - yes. (3) I never said that a brand name school promises a great ROI, but I understand your point.

@ChrisTeeter How does transferring equate to "skipping studios" for a licensed Architect? Also are you saying that the majority of Architects make a lot of money when they are in their 70s? I'm not entirely clear on what you are getting at.

@nonsequiter calling me names doesn't hurt my feelings. Do you need a nap or a timeout Sunshine?

This thread has turned into a microcosm of the up tight, self-entitled asshole stereotype employee that is churned out of American and Canadian architecture school.

You are just so fuxin magnanimous it's frightening. Try unhinging you jaws to swallow an ego that big folks.

TheGreatEscape wrote: Architecture schools make it extremely difficult for returning undergraduate students to complete a program without major setbacks and expenses.

then you say in response to me

TheGreatEscape wrote: how does transferring equate to "skipping studios" for a licensed Architect?

_____________

Before I go any further, is English your native language?

if you google top professional jobs right now the average salary for a managing architect is $141k, that means about 10-15 years experience, pretty sure that's considerably higher than most jobs you can get with any old college degree.

@Christeeter My question to you was clear. You know very well that the majority of Architects are not earning $141K even with 10-15 years of experience. Also I'm sure when you googled Managing Architect you combed through a bunch of IT positions...but the use of the title "Architect" is another discussion.

@RickB-Astoria Its a want more than a need.

I posted this a little over a week ago, and I am bored with the discussion now. Its like talking to a bunch of zombies. I'll be deleting this post, so you can find a new fence to press your faces against.

Another fine example of why we should not give out licenses upon graduation... not like this wanker would even get there anyways. Also, I'm pretty certain Teeter up there knows a thing or two more than you about this profession.

thanks RickB for pointing out the nonsense in the OPs questions...and i do know a thing, although I was off based on this link, only $133k and better that IT persons https://www.thebalance.com/top-careers-that-pay-over-100-000-a-year-2059639 sure 10-15 may sound aggressive but if you graduated during a recession or are good at what you do that is not far reaching. and thats the average. you have to frame your perspective better, its the AEC industry and you can do many things with an arch. degree and license beyond eye candy concept design.

If you take on management roles in corporate firms you can easily make that much, but most likely you'll never break 100k working traditional architecture.