Hey Dngw, interesting from your comments. I know several people in each of those firms. The UofT undergrads seemed to be from many years ago when the program was still good. Was your comments for UofT undergrads who managed to work at these offices within the last decade?

Mainly is there uoft undergrads who graduated within the last decade from gh3, williamson, shim sutcliffe. The rest are pretty meh.

Of course im not surprised one uoft undergrad made it to oma. Im sure there are a few good students every year! It is prob just more rare compared to other schools since they have fallen off.

As far as current employees and not firm owners, yes I am referring to uoft undergrads who graduated within the decade (but again also has a Masters, and not just a purely bachelor degree).  I'm reluctant to name names especially without permission.  If you research on firm websites you'd find them, maybe not all, but enough.  All 2005 onwards graduates.  WilliamsonChong's website lists education of staff.  Almost all I think, from undergrad uoft.   doesn't list year but they are recent graduates.  Superkul, Hariri, haven't checked out websites but just first hand knowledge of the people working there.  Maybe they list education, I don't know. MontgomerySisam lists education and year of staff.  Linkedln to check out less informative firm websites like gh3 and sutcliff(who I also know employ uoft undergrads and masters).  On linkedln for e.g., there's someone who graduated uoft undergrad 2007, masters 2011, having a prominent role at gh3. Anyways there's a "paper" trail or a digital trail as the case maybe, I guess is my point.  Best to see for yourself, so you don't have to rely on me saying I know so and so.

My two cents (which is all anyone can give here. take it with a grain of salt): I've seen a lot of waterloo and ryerson grads get stuck cranking out visualizations and spending all day on revit, having little exposure to the client side of things. I've also heard complaints that ryerson and waterloo grads lack the soft skills needed at a small office. Many small firm owners (particularly residential ones) have told me that they look for people who did not go into a technical arch program straight from high school.

That being said, I'm sure grads from Waterloo and Ryerson have a much easier time finding jobs. And of course I'm making a huge generalization here.

Ah DnGW i think we are generally agreeing on the same points with a slight difference in viewpoints. I do not doubt the UofT masters program much but just the undergrad. Like you say... There are basically no undergrads able to find good architecture jobs in those 4 years... Which is a lot of time...

I really don't think we are.  I already mentioned a few who interned before Masters with an undergrad in uoft.  And have known people to have summer internships at good firms while completing their Masters. Most firms are reluctant to put you on their full time staff (and be shown on their website) unless they know you can be registered.  Sure yes Ryerson may get hired more easily right after undergrad for production skills but they won't progress any further unless they get a Masters as well.  Masters is necessary for everyone, unfortunately. Otherwise you'll be in the same spot as an arch tech and will plateau, or be considered temporary help (i.e.3-6 month internships) for projects.  

Ah, well the way I see it is the UofT undergrads years are basically useless. Yes maybe the random one off will be good but they could be sucessful anywhere else if they could be sucessful from UofT. Might as well go to Ryerson/Waterloo/Carleton, where they can not only learn architecture related topics but also get practical experience. Then transition into masters and not be stagnant as production staff. Eitherway, my point is UofT is by far the worst option in the short and long run for undergrad compared to the three other schools. Maybe one day UofT will be good enough to get their accreditation back, hopefully in the next decade. Sad to see them fall.

To each their own.  I don't see it as useless and I've given plenty of examples that would contradict your one off comments.  You can choose to ignore it, go nuts.

Well your comments prove my point. You only state that those who completed their masters can get a job at these places and do well. Well I have seen the equivalent form all three other schools who do the same, while getting more years of experience due to a better undergrad. I did not ignore your comments, but rather your comments reinforced my beliefs and experiences. The only difference is for every one rare UofT undergrad student within the last decade, I've seen more from other schools.

I have trouble understanding what you write.  And I think your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking, so I'm really done arguing over this.  People will understand whatever they choose to.  You're essentially proving my point about Ryerson graduates from my point of view, and you seem like a pretty young kid.  So lets just agree to disagree, your arguments will probably never convince me, since it's not in my experience, and you yourself have not provided any examples.  And my arguments will probably never convince you cause of your own experience.  Nor is it about convincing for me.  It's more about presenting something different from the 3 people saying the same thing over and over, that seem to be the only people answering, which would obviously skew the conversation.  People can take whatever they want from it

So this nonsense is still going on?

Wow...